Economic News and More (13 July 2011)
Posted by Joshua on Wednesday, July 13th, 2011
Economic News (Thanks Ehsani)
The weak Syrian state is incapable of taxing its people.
- Syria’s tax receipts from all alcoholic beverages in 2009 was $425k.
- Tax receipts from tobacco were $49 million for a country of 23 million people. (60 percent of adult males and 23 percent of adult females in Syria smoke. Around 8 percent of a Syrian smoker’s income is spent on 3.6 kilos of tobacco a year. American men smoked at a rate of nearly 24 percent of the population.)
- In spite of the enormous rise in real estate values in the past decade, Syria only collects a total of $36 million in real estate taxes.
- The country only collects 4% in taxes and duties on total imports worth $13.8 billion.
Farouq al-Sharaa, Syria’s V.P., declares that Syria’s growth rate never reached 6% as claimed by previous governments. These figures were “manipulated”, he said and growth never exceeded 3.7%
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???? ?????? ???? ????? ??? ??????? ??????? ??????? ?????? ???? ???? ???? ?? ??? ????? ??????? ???? ???? ??? ?????? ????? ?????? ???? ??? ?????? ?? ??? ?????????? ???? ?????? ??? ?????? ????? ??? ?????? ???? ??????? ?? ?????? ????? ????? ?????? ?????.
Foreign direct investment in Syria fell by 28 percent last year to USD 1.85 billion, according to a newly released report, writes Syria Report.
Economy Syria Considers Lowering Retirement Age to 52 (Syria Report)
The Syrian government is working on a draft scheme to reduce the retirement age of civil servants from 60 to 52, according to Mohammad Jleilati, Minister of Finance.
An Iraqi pipeline carrying crude oil to Syria was blown up on July 10, interrupting supplies, according to an Iraqi news agency.
Al-Moallem discuses with Iraqi Premier regional situation.
Minister of Petroleum and Mineral Resources Sufian Allaw discussed with his Iraqi couterpart Abdul-Karim Luaibi cooperation in the field of oil and gas and means of transferring Iraqi oil production to the Mediterranean across Syria. The two sides signed a memo of understanding on establishing a network of oil and gas pipelines to transfer Iraqi crude oil and gas across Syria.
<b>Syrian Pharmaceutical Industries Sector</b>
Abdul-Muhsen said that Iraq imports 90% of its medicinal needs; thus, this agreement will open the door for the Syrian factories to export their products to Iraq.
On Tuesday too, Minister of health discussed with a delegation of Italian companies’ representatives best means of cooperation in order to amend equipments for Aleppo and Homs oncology centers.
Minister Al-Halqi said that the Ministry, in cooperation with European Investment Bank and Curie institute for oncology, pointed out at the importance of operating the two centers as soon as possible.
For their parts, members of the Italian delegation expressed their readiness to cooperate at amending the equipments for the two centers after reviewing all the details related……
U.S. Favorable Ratings Plummet Across the Arab World View the poll in full
WASHINGTON – July 13, 2011 – The Arab American Institute (AAI) released the findings of a poll today conducted in six Arab nations. Commissioned promptly after President Obama’s state department address on the popular uprisings in the Arab world, over 4000 people were surveyed. Four key findings of the poll are:
- U.S. and Obama favorable ratings are at a record low
- Top Arab concerns are U.S. interference in the region and the unresolved Israeli-Palestinian conflict
- Killing bin Laden has not improved relations with the region
- There is a mixed mood on the Arab Spring
One Syrian writes:
These guys in Damascus keep changing their minds…they do something on day and decide to reverse it the next. Even Sharaa backtracked on what Bashar said yesterday. Now he is saying we will talk to even those who call for regime change. Bashar yesterday said he would not talk to them.
Syrian FM says crisis between Syria and U.S., France, to be solved
2011-07-13
DAMASCUS, Jul 13, 2011 (Xinhua via COMTEX) — Syrian Foreign Minister Walid al- Moallem said Wednesday the recent crisis erupted between his country and the United States and France over protesters’ attack on the two’s embassies, would be solved within the framework of the Vienna Conventions. “I believe that demonstrators shouldn’t bypass the boundaries of the two embassies,” Moallem told a joint press conference with the Arab League (AL) chief Nabil el-Arabi. “Whoever did that was wrong … They (the embassies) shouldn’t be bypassed,” he said, adding that an expression of protest is ” legitimate but in a peaceful way.” He reasserted that the Syrian government is responsible for protecting the embassies and their staffs, saying “and we bear full responsibility for that.” al-Moallem, meanwhile, said diplomats should obtain prior permission before heading to restive areas so that the government could be able to protect their security.
U.S. Hardens Tone Against Syria’s Assad
By Jim Lobe, July 13, 2011
Escalating its rhetoric against Bashar Al-Assad, the White House declared Tuesday that the Syrian president had “lost his legitimacy” but declined to call explicitly for his resignation or removal….
The tougher rhetoric, as well as Ambassador Robert Ford’s visit to Hama, comes amid growing pressure on the administration, notably from neo-conservative sectors and some liberal hawks, such as former secretary of state Madeleine Albright, to take stronger measures against the regime….
“To help end the bloodshed, Washington will need to be equally ruthless” in applying such sanctions as Assad has been in applying his “iron-fist-in-velvet-glove approach” to the uprising against him, warned Tabler, who also claimed Tuesday that the administration was preparing such measures “behind the scenes” as part of a “quiet sea change” in its approach to Damascus.
But such an approach carries significant risks, according to Joshua Landis, a Syria specialist at the University of Oklahoma who publishes the widely read syriacomment.com blog.
“If we go down the road of augmenting sanctions in a serious way, that’s a slippery slope toward military intervention, because sanctions alone can’t overturn the regime,” he told IPS. “We haven’t seen a regime in the Middle East as tough as Assad’s collapse because of poverty, and we’ve learned from recent experience that poverty and blowing out the middle class are not the way to build a successful democracy in any case.”
Ironically, he said, the latest events have served the purposes of both capitals.
“For Washington, Ford’s trip and the tougher-sounding rhetoric demonstrate that Obama is on the side of the Arab Spring and eases the pressure on him by the critics to recall (the ambassador). And by sending Ford into the eye of the storm in Hama, Clinton has made it easier for Assad to rally his supporters around the charge that the U.S. is leading the effort to destabilise Syria,” he said, adding that the latest developments were unlikely to substantially change the balance of power within the country…..
Life Among Syria’s Not-So-Secret Police
The power of Assad’s Mukhabarat lies largely in its visibility.
By JONATHAN G. PANTER in WSJ
….In late January, when I arrived in Syria to study Arabic, most people seemed to have learned that lesson well, including my friend Ahmed. I met him at the University of Aleppo. He was a soft-spoken, 22-year-old graduate student who liked to tell me about his girlfriend and wasn’t very political. We mostly discussed poetry, compared our cultures, incessantly told dirty jokes, and generally agreed on our values. He and most young Syrians I met dwelt little on the difficulty of life under authoritarianism. They acknowledged that Syria had “problems,” but argued that President Assad was an intelligent leader dedicated to reform. They waited for change, and in the meantime shared the daily concerns of young people the world over: They studied, made friends, and dreamed of falling in love. Politically, both they and I expected the status quo, and none of us foresaw the uprisings and bloodshed to come.
Then in March, the uprisings around the Middle East spread to the south of Syria, and slowly moved north. The reaction from Damascus was fast and brutal. My language program was canceled and evacuated, but I stayed and in mid-April set out in a rickety service taxi to Belayoun. The violence had not yet reached the sleepy town, but already its inhabitants’ outlook had been transformed why what was happening in their country.
Gone was their hope for Assad’s reforms. The vicious crackdowns in Dara’a, and then in the cities of Homs and Hama, had become symbols of the thorough illegitimacy of the president’s regime of institutionalized brutality. Belayoun’s residents were no longer resigned to the injustices they had been conditioned to accept. Suddenly my friend Ahmed, the shy literature major, had become a revolutionary, by dint of joining millions of Syrians in asking to be treated like human beings and not subjects of the state. He stopped talking about his girlfriend, preferring to watch foreign news broadcasts about Syria as his face darkened with rage.
It was this transformation in people like Ahmed that brought the tanks to Homs and Hama, to highways all over Syria, and even to little Belayoun. The people are rejecting the lesson of fear, beaten into them by decades of surveillance and intimidation. Hope is emerging even in the shadow of the Mukhabarat, the sort of hope that brings men and women to the streets to stare down gun barrels. They’ve got nothing to lose—to the Syrian protesters, a life devoid of freedom hardly feels like life at all.
Mr. Panter is an undergraduate at Cornell University studying government; he left Syria on May 18.
White House, in Shift, Turns Against Syria Leader
By MARK LANDLER and DAVID E. SANGER, July 12, 2011
WASHINGTON — The Obama administration, after weeks of urging Syria to carry out democratic reforms and end a brutal crackdown, has now turned decisively against President Bashar al-Assad, saying that he has lost legitimacy and that it has no interest in Mr. Assad keeping his grip on power.
President Obama, in an interview Tuesday with the “CBS Evening News,” stopped short of demanding that Mr. Assad step down. But administration officials said the president may take that step in coming days, as he did with Libya’s leader, Col. Muammar el-Qaddafi, much earlier in that country’s popular uprising.
Mr. Obama’s comments, and even stronger ones by Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton on Monday, showed that the administration has now concluded that Mr. Assad is no more willing or capable than Colonel Qaddafi of opening a dialogue with protesters or overseeing a political transformation.
The turning point in the administration’s public posture came after angry crowds attacked and vandalized the United States Embassy in Damascus, and the residence of Ambassador Robert Ford, after his visit to Hama, the hub of the current protests and site of a bloody crackdown by Mr. Assad’s father in 1982.
Syria’s Christians fearful of future: As protests rage on, many in the community are concerned about the possible future influence of Islamist groups. Ambassador Ford was expelled from a church in Damascus, yesterday.
Good Debate on al-Jazeera between Muhammad Abdullah and Faisal Abd al-Satih, two articulate opponents. Muhammad Abdullah has been a guest in my house on a number of occasions when he first came to the US two years ago. His story is an interesting one. Following his release from jail in Syria, he was granted refugee status in the US. His father was arrested in 2005 for reading a letter written by the Muslim Brotherhood out loud at the Atassi Forum in Damascus. The US government located him to Oklahoma City, where he was given a subsidized apartment for three months. He got a job at Walmart as a cashier. After his subsidy ran out and he had practiced his English to a degree, he moved to Washington DC, where he seems to be doing well. He is a lawyer by training and is originally from Deir ez-Zor.
Peterson Inst: Economic Sanctions Case: EU, US v. Syrian Arab Republic (2011- : human rights, democracy) [pdf], 2011-07-12
Post-2000 the United States has imposed three rounds of sanctions against Syria, in response to: (1) Syria’s support for terrorist groups and terrorist activities in Iraq; (2) its pursuit of missiles and weapons of mass destruction (WMD) …
This Flag is My Flag
by by Amal Hanano for Jadiliyya
For two hours on Wednesday, I was in the safest place in Syria: at “The Longest Syrian Flag in the World,” pro-regime rally in Aleppo. The security protected, 1700 m flag, is touring “sympathetic” cities like Damascus, Suwaida, and now Aleppo, covering the muhalleq, beltway from al-Bassel Circle to al-Layramoon Circle. I figured since everyone constantly calls me a mundesseh, infiltrator, I might as well live up to the name and andass, infiltrate the event to get a closer look at the mysteriously brainwashed masses ……
The volunteers crossed the flag in socked feet out of respect, but when an over-enthusiastic guy accidentally stepped on the president’s shoulder while taking a picture, the crowd booed, “You stepped on the president!” He looked alarmed for one second but then jumped back, kneeled down and kissed the image. Suddenly, people started bringing their children to the plastic president to kneel and kiss his image as well. A large, military helicopter circled in the sky, and every time it passed, people would wave and chant. Someone whispered to me that the president was in it, wearing a gray suit, watching over us. The feared and admired gaze never leaves us…..
A Free Society: The Syrian Challenge, 2011-07-11
The administration’s policy toward Syria is shaping up to be the greatest missed opportunity of Barack Obama’s presidency. His failure of vision and nerve, paired with an acute Republican fatigue with the Middle East and foreign policy in …
Thousands of Iraqis face long wait for visas — and entry to U.S.
BAGHDAD — Heightened security concerns in the United States have stalled the immigration process for tens of thousands of Iraqis who worked for the U.S. government or American firms in Iraq and hope to move to the United States, according to U.S. officials and refugee advocates. A special program meant to distribute 25,000 visas to Iraqis who worked for the U.S. government has admitted just 7,000 since it started in 2008, officials said this week.
Hama stands firm
Jul 11th 2011, by The Economist
THE city of Hama is both defiant and fearful. Boys with wooden sticks man makeshift checkpoints. Burned-out government cars, rubbish bins, gates, piles of bricks and street-lamps unscrewed at the base and carefully laid across the road have been used to create blockades to prevent the security forces from re-entering the city. Even satellite dishes, with the name of Al-Dounia, a pro-regime channel, scribbled over with Al-Jazeera, have been used. The streets are eerily quiet; shop shutters are locked and the roads are almost empty of cars. No sign of the Assad regime remains. Pictures of the president, Bashar Assad, have been torn down and a plinth where a statue of his father, Hafez, once towers stands empty. Outside the city, the government’s forces wait.
A week ago the government tried re-take the city. In response, residents say, neighbourhoods organised overnight. At least 24 people have been killed in Hama and 500 arrested since the unrest began, but security forces have not been able to enter the main areas of the city of 800,000. The city, the fourth largest in Syria, has been galvanised by its size and by its history. Everyone knows each other and word travels quickly. Everyone has a relative who died in 1982 when Hafez Assad, the former president, killed tens of thousands in an effort to quash an Islamist uprising. Everyone knows someone who lost a son, husband or father on June 3rd, a date now similarly etched on the city’s memory, when over 70 people were shot dead. They have been able to organise quickly and effectively.
Comments (310)
jad said:
7amoudeh!!!! Another student of Ponytail, the fake Brit and Dr. Boring, do those guys on the phone 24/7 writing to each other what to say and what not to say?
Now this new star is saying that he doesn’t care of article 8 or freedom of media or a new constitution or new political party, he only wants Assad out, so if Assad is out and someone non-Alawi president, as some on here want, came in power and kept all the above issues unsolved is that going to satisfy anybody?
For God sake have some one worth listening to speak, I only see idiots, gamblers, radicals and worthless opportunists talking on behalf of the youth in the streets / ALL Syrians and they have no logic whatsoever in every word they say..doesn’t Syria have ONE well speaking charismatic person with brain that can talk to us as people with brains and convince us of his/her ideas and have a realistic plan other than destroying our economy, slaughter all Alawites and show Syrians as animals.
It’s so annoying listening to this crap day and night.
July 13th, 2011, 5:50 pm
jad said:
Better than listening to 7amoudeh and have my blood pressure go high, here is what’s happening in Hama, inshallah kheir!
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July 13th, 2011, 5:54 pm
873 said:
Are those in the middle east meant to be The West’s cannon fodder? Or is it a population control measure?
GLOBALISTS CALL FOR ’BIG WAR’
By James P. Tucker Jr. June 18, 2011
ST. MORITZ, Switzerland—The secret globalist group “Bilderberg” called for a big war by expanding the turmoil in Libya into a full-scale conflict involving the entire Middle East except for Israel. This is a grim and bloody outlook, because, historically, every time Bilderberg orders war, the guns begin to shoot. In 1991, President George H.W. Bush followed orders and attacked Iraq in Persian Gulf War I. He lost to peace candidate Bill Clinton, who followed orders and invaded Yugoslavia.
The list is endless: Every war dating back to and including World War II has been ordered by Bilderberg. Although they did not start calling themselves Bilderberg until 1954, Rockefeller and Rothschild cronies had the ear of President Franklin Roosevelt when the White House baited the Japanese into conducting a surprise attack on Pearl Harbor on Sunday, Dec. 7, 1941.
Similarly, President Harry Truman was pressured into going to war in Korea, and then Lyndon Johnson involved the U.S. in Vietnam.
Johnson seemed to enjoy cruelty. The same draft law used in World War II had been revived in 1946, making all able-bodied men aged 18-38 eligible for combat. A college student could finish his degree but must then report for duty. As a matter of policy, LBJ said students could finish their entire education, including postgraduate work, before reporting. And no one older than 27 would be drafted. The result: Dick Cheney and others avoided service by remaining in college until the age of 27. So the body bags were mostly filled by young boys with no more than a high school education.
“It will have to be a big war involving several countries to advance our goals of a global economy,” said Keith Alexander, director of the U.S. National Security Agency. “But the pressure to end the war in Libya is non-stop, mostly because of that damn Kucinich.” He was referring to Rep. Dennis Kucinich (D-Ohio), whose bill to end the invasion of Libya was defeated just before Congress adjourned for a week on June 3.
“But look at all the votes [148] he got,” Alexander said. “This is dangerous. Congress may cut or even eliminate war funding, and our soldiers are not even fighting.”
Bilderberg’s goal of expanding the turmoil surrounding the invasion of Libya into a huge bloodletting in the Mideast will be helped, they say, by their plan to maintain the global recession through 2012.
July 13th, 2011, 6:24 pm
jad said:
Dear S.N.K.
This clip is for you, ENJOY :))))
I’m starting it from sarsour since it’s the funniest part
http://youtu.be/JDwhcVYKmpw?t=5m37s
and Abou Nazeer later at:
http://youtu.be/JDwhcVYKmpw?t=10m8s
July 13th, 2011, 6:33 pm
jad said:
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http://www.assafir.com/Article.aspx?EditionID=1895&ChannelID=44681&ArticleID=1504
July 13th, 2011, 6:54 pm
jad said:
The new ugly reality of Hama:
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July 13th, 2011, 6:56 pm
jad said:
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http://www.al-akhbar.com/node/16613
July 13th, 2011, 7:20 pm
daleandersen said:
Dialogue >>> http://playwrighter.blogspot.com/2011/07/dialogue-syrian-style.html
July 13th, 2011, 7:21 pm
Nour said:
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???? ??? ?????? ??? ???? ??????? ?????? ?? ?????? ??? ????? ???? ?????? ??? ???????? ?????? ??? ????? ??? ?????? ??? ??????? ???? ???? ????? ???? ?????? ???? ??? ??????? ???????? ???????? ?? ???? ????? ?????? ??????? ???????? ??????? ??? ???? ???? ??? ??? ????? ??????? ???? ?? ???? ??? ????????? ???????? ???? ???? ?????? ??????? ????????? ?? ??????? ??????? ????????? ?? ??? ???????. ??? ?????? ???? ?? ?????? ????? ??? ??? ????? ??????. ??? ??? ?? ???? ?? ????? ??? ????? ??????? ???? ?? ?? ?? ????? ???? ????? ???? ?????? ?????? ???? ?????? ?????? ????? ???????? ?????? ????????? ?????? ?? ???????? ????? ??????? ?? ???????. ????? ?????? ?????? ??? ????? ???? ???? ??? ????? ?????? ????????? ??? ???? ?????????? ??? ???? ?????? ??? ??? ?????? ???? ????? ????? ??? ??? ?????? ???? ????? ?? ??????? ??????? ?? ??????? ???????? ??? ????? ???.
??? ??????? ?? ??? ?? ?????? ?? ????? ?????? ???????. ??????? ???? ???? ?? ???? ??? ?? ???? ???? ????? ?????? ??? ????? ????? ???????? ?????? ???????? ??? ??? ?????? ?? ??? ?? ??????? ?????? ??????? ??????? ??????? ??? ????? ?? ?????? ???????? ????? ????? ???????? ?? ???? ????? ?????? ????? ????? ?????? ????????? ????? ??????? ????????? ?? ???? ???? ???????? ?????? ????? ?????? ?????????? ??????? ??????????? ???????? ??????? ???? ?? ??? ?????? ????????? ???????.
? ??????? ??????? ???? ?? ?????? ?????? ?????? ??? ????? ??? ??????? ?????? ???? ????? ??????? ??? ??? ????? ???? ?????? ???? ????? ????? ?????????. ????? ???????? ???? ?????? ?????? ?????? ?????? ???? ???? ???????? ???? ???? ???????? ?? ??????? ?????? ?????? ???? ????? ??????? ?????? ???????? ?????? ?????? ??? ?????? ??????? ??????? ??? ?? ?????? ??? ??? ?????? ??? ??????? ??? ????? ?????? ???? ??????? .
? ??????? ????????? ?? ???? ???? ??????? ??? ???? ??????? ??????? ????? ???????? ?????????? ???? ???? ??????? ????????? ???????? ?????????? ???? ? ????? ????? ???? ????? ? ????? ???? ?? ??? ???????? ????? ??? ?? ????? ?? ??? ??????? ???? ???? ?? ???? ?? ???? ?????? ????? ???? ??????? ?????? ??? ??? ?????. ?? ?????? ?????? ?????? ??????? ?????????? ???? ????? ????? ????? ??????? ??? ????? ??????? ???????? ????????? ???? ???? ????? ????? ??? ??????? ????? ????? ?????.
??? ??????? ?????? ????????? ??? ?? ????????? ???? ?????? ???? ??? ?????? ??? ???????? ???? ?????? ????? ???? ?????? ???? ????? ??? ?? ???? ???? ????? ??????? ???? ?? ???? ??? ???????.
???????? ????? ?? ?????? ??????? ? ??????? ?????? ????? ?????? ??? ?? ??????? ??????.
???? ?? 2011.7.10 ???? ????? ?????? ?????? ?????????
??????? ??? ????
http://www.alqawmi.info/alpha/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1364:2011-07-13-13-07-41&catid=117:bayanat-ri2assa&Itemid=201
July 13th, 2011, 8:26 pm
873 said:
7. jad said:
????? ???????? ?????: ????? ????? ??????? ??????
Jad,
what do you make of the fact that Iran has been invited to sit in on NATO meetings (IRNA, ISNA, Tehran Times)? Syr Commando said they are playing a dangerous game, and I agree. What do you think this this means for Syria?
July 13th, 2011, 9:17 pm
Revlon said:
1. DEAR JAD
You said:
” Now this new star is saying that he doesn’t care of article 8 or freedom of media or a new constitution or new political party, he only wants Assad out, so if Assad is out and someone non-Alawi president, as some on here want, came in power and kept all the above issues unsolved is that going to satisfy anybody?”
I say:
Demands for genuine reforms were communicated at the inception of the revolution.
Now, four months later, Jr has been declared illegitimate as president, for he has become a suspect in committing nearly 2000 crimes against humanity.
Such happened not because junior took time / procrastinated in thinking out, writing, discussing and refining reforms.
It has not happened because he is 3alawi.
It has not happened because his reforms have been deceitful, which they are.
It has happened because he is leading a regime that has been committing murders and brutality against whom he is inviting to dialogue.
Jr and his gang has a long list of crimes against humanity to clear their name from.
Until then, they are not eligible to hold public negotiations or hold any public post.
Assuming the miraculous scenario of succeeding to clear his name at the incredible rate of one crime a day, it will take him 5 years to stand eligible to hold any public post.
So, do not hold your breath!
You said:
“For God sake have some one worth listening to speak, I only see idiots, gamblers, radicals and worthless opportunists talking on behalf of the youth in the streets / ALL Syrians and they have no logic whatsoever in every word they say..doesn’t Syria have ONE well speaking charismatic person with brain that can talk to us as people with brains and convince us of his/her ideas and have a realistic plan other than destroying our economy, slaughter all Alawites and show Syrians as animals.”
I say:
Can you offer one, other than the crime suspect Jr?
Any ways, I would prefer any of the Syrians you described above, as long as they have no crime records. Such of course would exclude Asad-Makhloof syndicate, top Mukhabarat and Army commanders, and other people who personally committed, participated in, or instigated the killing of Syrians.
You said:
“It’s so annoying listening to this crap day and night.”
I say:
Consider yourself privileged pal. You have been doing it for just 4 months!
But I sympathize with you; because we have endured the regime’s for 40 years!
July 13th, 2011, 9:23 pm
Revlon said:
2.??????? ??????? ?????? | H.N.N
??????? ?????????? ?? ???? “????????” ????? ??? ???? ?????? ??? ???? ????? ????? ??? ?????? ?? ???? ?????? ???? ????? ??? ??????? “?????? ?????” ?????????? ?????? ??? ?????? ?? ??? ?????? ?? ????? ? ??? ??????? ??????? ?? ??????? ? ???? ?????? ??????? ??????.
????? ???????? ?? ???? ????????.. ???? ????? ????? ????????? ??? ?? ??? ?? ???? ?? ??????? ?? ???????? ??? ???? ??????? ????? ??????? ??? ????? ????? ?????? ??? ???? ?????? ??? ??? ????? ?????:
1- ??? ??????? ??? ??? ??? ??????? ?? ??? ?????? ??? ????? ???????
2- ??? ?????? ?? ????? ??????? ??????? ???????
3- ???? ?????? ??? ????? ???? ????? ????? ???? ???? ???????
Here is the people’s response outside the Mosque:
They are hloding an unauthorised demonstration in front of AlSirjawi Mosque, Tuesday night
Hama, we die for you!
July 13th, 2011, 9:46 pm
Syria no kandahar said:
Revlon
600 crimes committed by your mobs makes them what?worse than criminals.you are a radical movement,don’t try to fool us ,if you have been dealing with Assads for 40years,syrians know MB very well.read Alsafir article which Jad linked above and see how he describes your criminals thugs in Hama with there ????? and ther beards and there shaved mustache ,what will come out of that?can you be optimistic with such people.I know people who just came from Syria a d they are saying that in Homs and Hama a woman can’t walk in the street wearing a cross,and in the article above you can read that they need a male companion to move any where.
We don’t trust you.stop this 40years crap,how do we know that it would have been better with something different?it is a history.you are not the one who makes it ,you can’t Cont to regurgitate the same nonsense and expect to be believed.
July 13th, 2011, 9:49 pm
873 said:
11. Revlon
In case you didnt notice, a President’s legitimacy stems from his constituency- his own people. Not the foreign propaganda-press nor foreign govts to whom he refuses to bow down to. Nor the paid-terrorists-for-hire that act as proxies for these foreign bullies. Yankee get out!
Speaking of change and reform that US is demanding of Assad… That is the slogan Obama ran on, and there has been no change between him and Bush, unless its for the worse, which most people never believed possible.
“Jr and his gang has a long list of crimes against humanity to clear their name from.”
With a rap sheet of dozens of CIA coups around the world, relentless economic terrorism, death squads etc Ms. Clinton needs seek the ICC to clean out her own torture chambers first. Reparations for war crimes would be some “Change We Can Believe In”.
July 13th, 2011, 9:54 pm
Observer said:
Once again, it seems that some have not read the ICG report.
It clearly shows that Assad is no Juan Carlos of Spain who forced the entrenched people of the late General Franco to accept a constitutional monarchy and to usher in true democracy.
Rumors has it that he will not “abandon” his family. Well in that case and IF IT IS TRUE he cannot be the President of Syria.
There is in my opinion complete chaos in the regime’s reaction and actions. Once again, rather than presenting itself as the pillar of stability it is showing that it is the source of chaos.
I really do not understand how he truly screwed up so badly.
Read the report and re read it aloud again and go over the references as well.
July 13th, 2011, 10:20 pm
jad said:
873,
“What do you think this means for Syria?”
I’m not sure, do you or Syrian Commando have any thoughts to share on this?
SNK,
?? ????? ?? ???? ???????? ??? ??????? ???? ?????
Revlon,
‘Can you offer one, other than the crime suspect Jr?’
If the president is a suspect of 1500 crimes then those ‘stars’ are responsible for 2000 crimes including the military victims and on top of that, they are going to be responsible of destroying the lives of millions of Syrians and the death (God forbid) of hundred of thousands of Syrian children as a result of the embargo they are pushing for against the Syrian people and not the top circles. (we saw that in Iraq and we are still seeing it happening in Iraq)
They are more criminal than any other Syrian.
July 13th, 2011, 10:30 pm
jad said:
????? ?????… ??? ??? ?????
??? ????
” ??? ??? ???? ?????? ???? ????? ?????? ????? ???? ??? ????: ???? ?? ??? ?????? ????? ????? ??? ?? ???? ?? ????? ?????? ??? ??? ?? ????? ??? ???? ?? ?????. ????? ??? ????????? ?????? ??? ??? ???? ?????? ??????. ???? ????? ?????? ????? ????? ?? ???? ???? ???? ???. ???? ????? ????? ???????? ???????? ?????????. ???? ???? ????? ????? ??????? ?????????? ???? «????? ??????». ??? ???? ??? ?? ????? ????? ??? ???????? ????? ?? ??? ???? ?????? ??? ????? ?????? ??????? ??????? ?? ????? ?????? ???? ?????????? ????????? ??????? ?????? ????????? ?????? ??????? ???? ?? ?? ?????? ????? ??? ?????? ??????? ??????? ??? ?? ?????? ?????? ???????? ???? ??????. ???? ??? ????? ??????? ??? ???? ????? ????????? ???????? ????? «????? ??????» ??????. ?? ???? ?? ?? 1990? ??? ??? ??????? ????? ????? ?? ?????? ????????? ???. ??? ????? ???????? ??????? ???? ?????? ???? ?????? ????? ???? ????? ?????? ????? ??? ??? ???? ?? ??? ??????? ??????? ????? ??????? ??????.
?? ???? ??? ?? ????? ???? ?????. ???? ??????? ???? ?????. ????? ?? ???? ?????? ???????? ???? ?????????? ????? ??? ??????. ????????? ???? ??????? ?????? ???? ?????? ???????? ????????? ?? ?? ?????? ????? ??? ????? ??????? ???????? ???? ????? ???? ???? ?? ?????? ?? ????? ?? ?????? ?? ???? ?????? ??? ???? ????? ????? ?? ???? ????? ??? ??? ??????. ??? ?????? ??????? ?????? ??????? ???? ??? ???? ??? ???? ????? ??? ???? ?????.”
http://www.al-akhbar.com/node/16609
—————————————–
Where are you Why Discuss?
July 13th, 2011, 10:40 pm
Norman said:
Abughassan,
Is that what you are thinking about comming,
——————————————————————————–
????? ???? ?????? ????? ???? ?????????
???? ??????? GMT 2:30:00 2011 ?????? 14 ?????
????? ?? ???? ?????? ?????? ???? ????? ?????? ????? ???? ????? ????????? ?? ?????? ???? ????? ????? ????? ????? ???? ????????? ??? ???????? ?????? ?????? ????????? ??????? ??? ?????? ???????? ???? ????? ?????? ?? ???? ?????? ?????? ???? ?????? ????? ?????.
——————————————————————————–
????? ?? ??????? ?? ??????? ?? ?????
????? ????? ????? ??”????? ” ?? ???? ???????? ?????? ?? ????? ?????? ?????? ???? ????? ??? ???? ????????? ?????? ????? ??????? ?? ? ????? ??? ?????? ????? ?????? ??? ?????? ?????. ?????? ??? “?? ????? ???? ??? ????????? ???????? ?????? ?? ????? ???????? ??????? ???????? ???? ?? ???? ??????? ????? ?? ??? ????? ??? ???? ?????? ?????? ??? ???????? ?????? ?????? ??? ?????? ???????? ???? ????? ?????? ?? ???? ?????? ???? ?????? ?????? ????? ????? ????? ?? ???????? ???? ???? ??? ????? ???? ?????? ?????? ??????? ???????”.
????? ??????? “?? ????? ????? ????? ???? ????? ????????? ???? ?? ???? ?? ?? ??????? ???? ?????? ???????? ?????? ?? ???? ?????? ??????? ?? ????”. ?????? ??????? ???” ??? ????? ???? ????? ?????? ??????? ?? ??????? ?????? ?????? ?? ?????”. ????? ?? ????? ????? ????? ?????? ?? ???? ???????? ???? ?????? ?????? ????? ??????? ?? ?????? ????? ???? ????? ???? ????? ??? ????????? ?????? ???? ???? ??? ?????? ?????? ????? ??? ????????? ?????? ??? ??? ??????? ?? ????? ??? ??? ??? ?? ???? ?????? ??? ??? ???? ????? ???? ??????? ??????? ????? ?????? ?? ???? ???????? ?? ???? ???? ??? ????? ?????? ?? ?????? ??? ????? ????? ????.
????? ????? ??????? ????? ???? ?? ?????? ????? ?????? ?????? ????????? ??????? LBC ????? ??? ?? ???? ???????? ????????? ??? ?????? ????? ?? ????? ?????? ?????? ???? ???? ??????? ?????? ????? ????. ????? ??? ?? ????????? ?????? ?? ???? ??? ???????? ???????? ???????? ??????? ??????? ?? ????? ?????? ????????. ????? ????? ??????? ????????? ????? ??? ?? “????? ??????? ????? ??? ????? ???? ?????”? ??? ?? ??? ?????? ?????? ???? ???? ??????? ?? ?????? ?? ?????????? ?? ???????? ????? ??”?????? ????? ???????? ?????????? ????? ???????? ??????? ??????? ?????? ?? ???? ?????? ?????? ???? ?????”. ????? ??”??? ????? ?????? ??????” ??? ?????? ????? ????? ????? ????? ??? ????? ?? ???????? ????? ?????? ??? ??? ?????? ???????? ?????? ?????????? ????? ??????? ?? ???? ??????? ????? ??????? ???????? ???????? ?? ?????? ????? ????? ??? ??? ?????? ?? ?????? ??????? ?? “????? ????? ??? ????? ?? ????? ????? ??? ??????? ?????? ????? ???? ????? ??? ??? ???? ????? ?? ????” ????? ?????? ??? ????? ???? ????.
???? ??? ??????? ?? ????? ??? ????????? ????? ?????? ???? ????? ??? ???????? ????? ??????? ???? ?????? ???? ????????. ??? ??? ??? ?????? ???????? ?????? ??????? ?? ??? ???? ?????? ???????? ???? ????? ?? ???? ????? ????? ??????? ???? ???? ??????? ? ???? “?????” ???? ??? ???? “??? ?? ??? ??? ????? ?????? ??????? ??? ????? ?????? ???? ? ???? ??? ????? ????? ????????? ???????? ??? ??????? ? ???? ??? ????? ?????? ??? ?????????? ???????? ????? ????? ????????? ? ?????? ?????? ?? ????????? ??????? ??????”.
???? ?????? ??? ??? “?? ?????? ????? ????? ?????? ?? ?????? ???? ?? ?????? ?? ??????? ??? ?????? ??????? ?????? ?????? ???????? ???? ?? ??? ?? ??????? ?? ?????? ??????? ????????? ????? ????? ??? ????? ?????? ???? ??????? ? ??? ?????? ?????? ??? ????? “?????? ????????” ??? ????? – ???? ?????? ??????- ???? ??????? ?????? ???? ?????? ???????”. ????? ??????? ?????? ??????? (???????) “???? ???? ??? ???????? ??????? ?? ?????? ??????? ????? ??? ?????? ?????? ????????? ??????? ???????? ?? ??? ??????? ??? ???? ??? ???????? ???? ????? ?????? ??? ???????? ?????? ????? ?? ??? ?????? ?? ????? ?? ???? ??? ?????? ????????? ???? ??????? ??? ??? ???? ?? ?????? ?????”.???? ???? ?? ???? ?? ???? ?? ?????? ????? ????? ?????? ????? ???? ????? ????????? ??????? ?? ????? ?????? ??????? ?? ???????? ??????? ?? “???? ????? ???????” ??? “???? ????” ??? ?????? ??????? ???? ??? ??????? ????? ” ?? ??????” ? ????? ??? ???? ?? ??? ?????? ??? ??? ?????.
???? ??????? “??????? ?????? ???? ??? ???? ?????? ??? ???? ??? ?????? ????? ??????? ???????? ???? ???????? ???? ???? ???? ???? ?????? ????? ????”.. ??? ???” ?? ????? ??????? ?????? ???????? ??? ?? ??? ??? ??? ????? ?????? ?????”. ???? “?? ?????? ???????? ?? ?? ?? ???? ??????? ????? ??? ???????? ??????? ???? ???? ?? ????? ???? ??????? ???????? ??? ????? ?????? ?? “???? ????????” ?? ?????? ?????? ?? ?????? ?????? ?? ?? ???? ?????? ????? ??? ?? ???? ???? ???? ??????? ? ???????? ?? ????? ?????? ?????? ?? ??????? ??????? ?? ????? ????????”.???? ??? ?? ????? ????? ?????? ??????? ????? ??????? ?? ?????? ????? ??? ?????? ?? ????? ???? ?? ??????? ?????? ????????? ??????? ???? ??? ???? ?? ????? ?????? ??? ????? ??????? ?? ????? ????? ?? ?????? ???? ???? ???? ??????? ??????? ??? ???? ?????? ??????? ???????. ????? “??? ??? ????? ???? ????? ???????? ?????? ?????? ??? ?????? ????????? ??? ???? ?????? ???? ?????? ????? ???? ???????? ???? ??? ????? ????? ???? ?????? ???? ?????? ??????? ????????????? ???? ??? ????? ???????? ??????? ????????”.
http://www.elaph.com/Web/news/2011/7/668857.html
????? ???????
July 13th, 2011, 10:55 pm
jad said:
??????: ??? ???? ?????? ???????? ??? ????????? ??????? ?? ?????? ???? ?? 25 ???? ????? ?? ????
“???? ?????? ??????? ????? ???? ??????? ??????????? ??? ?????? ??????? ??? ?????? ???? ???? ???? ??????? ????? ??? ??????? ??? ?????? ???????? ???? ????????? ?????? ????? ?? ????? ?? ????? ???? ???? ?? 25 ???? ????? ?? ???????? ???? ??? ???? ???????? ?????? ??? ???? ???????? ??????? ???? ??? ??????? ??????????? ?? ?????? ????? ?? ??? ??????? ?? ??????.”
http://alwatan.sy/dindex.php?idn=104977
?????? ???? 150 ??? ????? ??? ?????? ?????? ??????… ?????? ????? ????? 500 ??? ?? ” ????? ”
14/07/2011
??? ???? ???? ?? ?????? ???? ?????? ????? 150 ??? ????? ??? ????? ?? ??????? 17433000 ????? ?????, ?? ?? ??? ????? ????? ?????? ????? 116.22 ?????? ??? ?? ??? ?????? ????????? ?? ????? ?????? ??? 5 ??????? ?????.
???? ???? ?????? ?? “?? ?????” ?? ????? ????? ????? 500 ??? ?? ????”?????” ???? ?????? ?? ?? ?????? ??????? ???? ???? ??????? ??????? ??? ????? ???????? ?????? “????? ???????” ???? ????? ??? ?????? ???? ???? ?????? ??????? ??? ?? ??? ??????.
?????? ?????? ?? ??????? ?? ????? ?? ??? ????? ??????? ??? ???? ????????? ??? ???????? ?? ?????? ???? ???????? ???????? ???? ????? ?? ” ??? ????? ” ?? ??? ???? ??????? ???? ?? / 22 / ???? ????? ??? ??????? ” ???? ????? ” ????? ??? ?????? .
??? ?????
http://www.aksalser.net/ar-sy/News/23/5135.aspx
July 13th, 2011, 11:04 pm
Norman said:
Al-Binaa newspaper: President al-Assad to address the nation through Syrian TV within coming few days
The Lebanese al-Binaa newspaper said that President Bashar al-Assad will make a comprehensive statement to the Syrian TV within the coming few days.
Earlier, a number of Arab newspapers reported that the Lebanese satellite channel “LBC” had got an official Syrian permission to make an interview with President al-Assad by well-known journalist Marcel Ghanem.
Reliable sources in Lebanon stressed to the Kuwaiti “al-Anbaa” newspaper that preparations for the LBC’s interview with President al-Assad are underway.
According to the sources, the interview is expected to deal with the current situation in Syria, Lebanon and the whole region.
Champress
July 13th, 2011, 11:07 pm
abughassan said:
This may anger some,including many of my freinds and some family members,but I honestly do not see how Bashar and the regime as a whole can stay in power much longer. I am still,like most Syrians,opposed to direct foreign intervention in Syria and will not support any effort to force Bashar out by force,however, the time has come for Syrians to press for a new era that includes:
1. abolishment of article-8
2. rewriting of Syria’s consitution
3. free elections
4. accomodations for minorities
5. a total restructuring of security forces
6. timetable for Bashar to leave office
Bashar,as a person,did have good intentions and he still does,but good intentions are never enough to rule a country like Syria. He had 11 years to act but he waited until many Syrians made it clear that they need a new government. He has a very small window to do damage control and improves his legacy,but I am not sure he is able to go that far or if he has the trust of the average Syrian,some loyalists excluded. It was the old regime,including rich sunni merchants,who insisted that he assumes the office of presidency against the advice of many of his old friends and the will of many Syrians. He is not his father’s son in the sense that he never earned the position and never fought for it,and on top of that,he is not like the late Asad,a hands-on president. He is likeable to many,but out of touch to many more,and he surrounded himself with incompetent and/or corrupt advisors and did very little to stop old dinasours from destrying the country. His much talked-about successes in foreign policy was largely due to errors (made by George Bush and Israel) and the work of Hizbullah / Iraqi resistance.Syrian poors under his rule got poorer and corruption got worse. It is not surprising that security forces seem to act as a state inside a state because he,until last week,had stayed away from managing that apparatus. I said what I said with a great deal of pain because,until few weeks ago,I was still hopeful that he can lead but I know now that he is not in charge as a syrian president must be. For the sake of Syria, especially those Syrians who are fearful of the Islamists or the “unknown”, he needs to lead a period of transition that ends with his departure with minimal violence and no outside “help”.Without a compromise with the army and certain elements in the security forces,NOTHING will be achieved,and the two sides,the opposition and the army, are not talking to each other yet,and that is VERY dangerous and VERY irresposible,and I blame both sides for that failure. Both sides are waiting for changes in the streets to strengthen their position and that is being done at the expense of Syrians who are ready for a leadership that does not exist yet.
We will hear some major announcements within a week but as comforting as those announcements will be,they do not change the fact that Syria needs a new government and a new president.
July 13th, 2011, 11:50 pm
Darryl said:
21. ABUGHASSAN said:
the time has come for Syrians to press for a new era that includes:
4. accomodations for minorities
Abughassan, can you or someone elaborate what is meant by accommodation for Minorities? It it is starting to appear to me that this is another hot potato that people are experiencing pain in dealing with or everyone is hiding this poker card.
Perhaps, I should put a few options and then we can get a better definition:
Minorities in new Syria: Free to worship, conduct business, they pay Jizya.
Minorities in new Syria: Free to worship, conduct business, wear an electronic ID so that they do not corrupt new found democratic country.
Minorities in new Syria: Free to worship, can only deal with their like, the minorities vote is one fourth of a normal citizen’s vote.
Minorities in new Syria: Free to worship, they are second class citizens can only vote if there is a hung parliament.
Minorities in new Syria: Free to worship only and tracked 24/7 and lucky to be alive.
Perhaps others may contribute to this list.
July 14th, 2011, 12:40 am
louai said:
I respect abughassan opinion and consider him as asset to SyriaComment , I understand all the facts and the analyses in your comment but what I don’t understand is section 6
‘6. timetable for Bashar to leave office’
the time table is there already , Bashar was elected by the Syrian people , if the Syrian people don’t want him so don’t vot for him in next elections, period , why we need to reinvent the wheel ? many will tell me the elections are not free , well fight for it , there is dialogue a new constitution new Political party laws and new media law , what the thing with toppling Bashar ? as if he is the source of all evil ,
when any one ask to topple the regime (here Bashar) he thinks about the thousands of Syrians who don’t want him in power but why don’t they think about the millions who wants him to stay in power in power?
If a million went to the street and said in one voice ‘the people want to topple the regime’ dose not mean ALL the people want to topple the regime,there is another 22 million need to be asked , I mean the opposition complain about their voice not being heard but they refuse to listen to any one else, why avoiding elections? I personally will vote for Bashar but my voice is not enough he needs a good majority otherwise he most leave.
July 14th, 2011, 12:57 am
Abughassan said:
I think you overreacted my friend. This is Syria not Saudi Arabia. Half of my family is in that minority group and no Syrian regime will be able to govern Syria without what I called accomodations. For any new government to be accepted ,minority participation must be protected and domination of islamists should not be allowed. The army in particular will not allow the Facebook heroes and the MBs in disguise to take over,calm down. Serious talks between responsible people are about to start in and outside Syria but not with people who want to come back riding a NATO or Turkish tank.
July 14th, 2011, 12:58 am
873 said:
16. jad said:
873,
“What do you think this means for Syria?”
I’m not sure, do you or Syrian Commando have any thoughts to share on this?
SC didnt elaborate, but I hope it doesnt mean Iran is selling out Syria and HB to the West. Have also heard that Iran reduced HB monies by half. Vulnerability would result if the allies split apart. Iran just opened their own oil trading bourse. Will Syria trade its oil exclusively there? The offshore gas discovered in Mediterranean by Israel could mean a future of even more rivalry and conflict in region.
July 14th, 2011, 1:01 am
Abughassan said:
Bashar will not be toppled,louai,people are focused on giving him the chance to announce a road map with a timetable and an immediate reshuffle of his regime heads,but he will not run for another term and he may finally accept the advise of top generals and foreign leaders to leave gradually and be seen as the man who put Syria ahead of his personal and family interests. This is Syria,and many powers want war and bloodshed,some inside Bashar’s circle may not accept the inevitable and try to lead a coup on his own. If I was an opposition leader today,I would pray that nothing happens to the guy they hate the most,Bashar,because they are not gonna like who comes next.let the guy say what I heard he will say and start planning for a post-Bashar Syria. 2012 will not be the same as 2011,and if my contacts are truthful,I think they are,changes will come faster than what most people anticipated. Violence and israel are the wild cards,and if these cards stay in the deck,we will get out of this mess within weeks or few months,but that will not be enough for our biggest challenge: the economy..
Peace to all…time to go to bed.
July 14th, 2011, 1:14 am
Darryl said:
Abughassan, my comment was not directed at you exactly, perhaps the way you put things. But I do not like the word minority. Under a democratic system, there is NO minority; there is a citizen! and all citizens have equal right under the law and in the eye of the law. This law has no religious, color, or race differentiation.
If Syria is to have special treatment for minorities, then it has different rules and that does make a nation.
However, posters including yourself keep saying minorities in a democratic Syria. These “minorities” deliberations keep reinforcing in my mind that the new Syria will have the same horse and just a different jockey.
July 14th, 2011, 1:17 am
louai said:
Aboud
did you read what Jad posted in No 6 ? i think the news started to come from reliable media , hundreds of families flee Hama.
July 14th, 2011, 1:18 am
why-discuss said:
Abughassan, Louai, Norman
In four months have you seen one person that showed intelligence, experience, courage and initiative among the opposition ‘leaders’. I don’t want to be disrespectful but the opposition leaders are old and worn out. They are very very weak and none has any charisma. I wonder who would vote for them if the elections happen in 6 months.
The young syrians in the opposition we saw have no connection, no experience, they are mostly Facebook afficionados, more confortable uploading Youtube, tweeting and writing blogs than facing a parlement or foreign officials..
Whatever criticism you may have about Bashar Al Assd, we have not seem much of the others to judge.
Do you really think anyone will emerge soon to challenge Bashar al Assad’s personality?
In my view it may take at least 2 years after the situation calms down to see some people becoming known and trusted.
The irony is that Bashar al Assad could very well be re-elected democratically in 6 month or a year to the total dismay of the x-opposition and the western countries.
July 14th, 2011, 1:48 am
SYR.Expat said:
21. ABUGHASSAN
Great post! I differ on few issues, but I agree that Bashar needs to depart and that some sort of compromise must be reached with the to spare the country civil strife.
“the two sides,the opposition and the army, are not talking to each other ”
How can the opposition talk while the army/security is still killing/arresting/torturing people? How can you talk to someone with a gun pointed to your head?
People need to put the interest of Syria above all other political considerations and work towards a solution that can catapult Syria into a better future.
Dr. Galioun makes some good points in this regard:
http://www.youtube.com/user/alhiwarchannel#p/u/6/TsK7BDsI15A
July 14th, 2011, 1:56 am
why-discuss said:
Only a Democracy Can Liberate the Golan
http://www.middle-east-online.com/english/?id=47173
Why did the Americans try to launch two coups in Syria in the 1950s? Again, because the Syrians were acting too independently from U.S. interests in the Arab world and cozying up to the Soviet Union, argues Sami Moubayed.
July 14th, 2011, 2:14 am
Aboud said:
Louai @28 “hundreds of families flee Hama.” That’s to be expected. You don’t think people in Baba Amr just sat in their homes and sipped tea while the tanks gathered outside? Same with the people of Telkelakh, almost the entire town fled to Lebanon, Marmarita and Homs.
Of course, the state media claimed they were all fleeing armed gangs. Astonishing how it’s only in the places that turn out massive demonstrations, that the inhabitants would be demonstrating one day, and then “fleeing armed gangs” the very next.
I take it very few people have read either ICG report….
Why Discuss “In four months have you seen one person that showed intelligence, experience, courage and initiative among the opposition ‘leaders’.”
Please try to differentiate between people who are visible, and people who are effective. The fact that the revolution has come this far means without a doubt that there are Syrians on the ground who are intelligent, experienced and courageous.
They just aren’t highly visible, for obvious reasons. While Bashar is highly visible, but without question has been woefully lacking in leadership, planning and vision. If his supporters are so sure of his popularity, let them withdraw the army and see how “popular” he really is.
Everywhere where the army or security presence is absent, massive anti-Bashar demonstrations have come out. That is undeniable.
“The irony is that Bashar al Assad could very well be re-elected democratically in 6 month or a year to the total dismay of the x-opposition and the western countries.”
Then what are you so afraid of? Why is a demonstration of intellectuals in the middle of Damascus broken up and people arrested? Why can’t opposition members go on state TV and freely criticize junior? Why are demonstrations suppressed? Why is Najati Tayara still in jail after more than two months? Heck, hold an election as soon as possible if you believe what you say.
The fact is junior will never allow free elections, it would mean the end of him and his party.
July 14th, 2011, 2:36 am
louai said:
lets hope your contacts are truthful Abughassan , I do like Bashar and have faith on him but Syria for me is more important than any person , I wish to see transparent elections to see if the majority of Syrians share my opinion or not , what make the opposition ‘dodgy’ in my eye is that they don’t call for fair transparent elections , No ! they know better , they want Bashar out , I am with gradual change and I pray for a peaceful one , as for the heads who may resist the change , I think we are in a time where ‘the regime’ and AL Baath need Bashar not the opposite ,Bashar is in his peak as a leader and if the opposition contribute in a healthy way we can see a real revolution that may set an example to other nations .i really want to hear some good news finally !
WD ,
no I haven’t seen any , all what I saw are embarrassing people pretending to be revolutionists leaders relying on their hatred to Bashar not to their love to Syria
SYR.EXPAT
‘How can you talk to someone with a gun pointed to your head? ‘ the government can say the same but instead they are calling for dialogue , please remember that there are 800 security and military members dead , we should focus on the future and stop blaming each other or as you said it ‘People need to put the interest of Syria above all other political considerations and work towards a solution that can catapult Syria into a better future.’ Totally agree with that
July 14th, 2011, 2:43 am
Syria no kandahar said:
Louai
Aboud is going to spend his summer vacation in Hama,he bought an new ????? and he shaved his mostache,kept his beard,he will be on ???? in Hama ,he is optimistic that he will probably go to ??? ??? ?????,he dos’t need Viagra ther.PS:if you go please behave and don’t use your usual words like Tez and f words,that is not good marketing for syrians ther.Aboud don’t let yourself down the ???has to proof themselves to your standards,exactly like all of us Here in SC we have to do the same thing otherwise you have your ?????.
Jad
I could’t open those videos ,I don’t know why,I asked Aboud to use his ????? to open them,he was almost going to chop my head.
July 14th, 2011, 2:52 am
Badr said:
WD #31,
Then let’s see you calling for a democracy in Syria in your comments from now on!
July 14th, 2011, 3:06 am
Revlon said:
29. Dear why-discuss
You said:
” In four months have you seen one person that showed intelligence, experience, courage and initiative among the opposition ‘leaders’”
I exclaim!
– Intelligence! Was that in his failing to forsee the Syrian uprising and in describing it as conspiracy!
– Experienc! Was that how you would describe hurling tomatoes and stones at the US Embassy?
– Courage! Did you see that in his lame response to Mr Ford’s visit! or was it in the killing of women and children in cold blood, and the cutting their organs!
– Initiative! Was that the swapping of emergency laws with as brutal demonstration laws?
I must agree however, that it is not fare to compare jr with even the most junior opposition activist on the block.
It is not fare to compare the brave, decent, intelligent and industrious juniors of the rising Syrians, with the timid, dull, and slouchy Jr of the dying regime.
July 14th, 2011, 3:13 am
Aboud said:
@34 Baathists always find a way to fail to meet even my low expectations of you people. I take it from your juvenile post that you haven’t read the ICG reports? Some people don’t have the attention span required to go through 40 pages, apparently.
July 14th, 2011, 3:14 am
louai said:
revolutionists from Homs , very happy and cheering Clinton, for them, Bashar has no legitimacy after she took it from him ,read what is written on the signs and hear the slogans ,i am not very proud of being Homsi right now !
July 14th, 2011, 4:24 am
daleandersen said:
Memo To: LOUAI
RE: “…the thousands of Syrians who don’t want [Bashar] in power and the millions who wants him to stay in power…”
Thousands? Millions? Who authorized you to count the votes, petunia?
http://playwrighter.blogspot.com/2011/07/dialogue-syrian-style.html
July 14th, 2011, 5:15 am
Aboud said:
Louia @ 38 “Bashar has no legitimacy after she took it from him ”
Incorrect. Madame Secretary of State is playing catch-up with the Syrian people. Or did you forget Jum3at Suqut Al Shar3ia? The Syrian people have long since regarded this junta as being illegitimate.
I have never been prouder to be Homsi. Homs is the nexus, the center of this wonderful revolution, and what we do today and tomorrow will rock the region for decades to come.
Now, if only Al-Karama can get back to it’s old playing form….
Homs is observing its third weekly strike, but of course that won’t get any mention on this blog.
July 14th, 2011, 5:29 am
julie said:
i’m in syria and the army gives me the feeling of security and saftey, i live far from my family, and my work needs to make travels around syria. When the uprising began we lose the liberty to travel as usual because of just three or four places you may have problems with armed gangs(al maara, talbiseh, bab sbaa…) now with the army in jabal al zaweih and neer the raods to Hama we could travel without fear, and people stop on the raod to give to soldiers sweets and drinks, nobody seems troubled with those young soldiers tkeeping us safe and secure. when you read the article published 14 july in al safeer about Hama you will see the real image of those revolutionary guys with their knives and satour. no thanks we don’t need our syria like this. I appreciat what our people did in al salib chruch in damascus with M ford. this is syrian people who will change the face of syria by their work not their destruction, and burning and killing soldiers and policemen and innocent people. hand of our syria we are adult and we could make the future of our country by the dialogue and the respect of the law. i want to have the liberty to go to deir al zor when i want and to buy my sweets in Homs and eat the best kabab ever in Aleppo and drik mateh in Tartous with my free syrian people.
July 14th, 2011, 5:47 am
Revlon said:
40, Aboud, I think the revolution will return Alkarama to Khaled, No?
Will see!
July 14th, 2011, 6:02 am
hans said:
A question to the readers here. Why when showing so called videos from Syria about anti- Syrian demonstrators they are always grainy and wobbly. Surely the protesters can afford to buy some decent cameras. Maybe the American ambassador should have taken some with him when he visited Hama? Just asking!
July 14th, 2011, 6:32 am
Aboud said:
Hans @42 The quality of the videos uploaded are deliberately lowered to make it harder to be able to identify individuals.
“Why when showing so called videos from Syria about anti- Syrian demonstrators”
A frankly stupid and idiotic statement. The people demonstrating are not anti-Syrian; they risk life and limb for the sake of a better Syria. Anti-Syrians are the despicable people who rely on the Iranian theocracy to help suppress their fellow Syrians.
July 14th, 2011, 6:39 am
majedkhaldoon said:
Abughassan is telling us that Bashar himself is going to announce sudden and major change , Bashar when he became president,depended on immidiate family, who is he going to depend on now?sudden change is too risky,and he is not a risk taker.I said it before, he is not smart,he is not a leader, he is slower than a turtle.
Minority will not be able to control majority for long,that is why democracy is better,it is either democracy or charismatic leader, with the abscence of such leader,democracy is the only choice.
July 14th, 2011, 6:42 am
Tara said:
Aboud and Revlon
You should be extremely proud to be Homsi or Hamwi for that matter. You people gave new definition to heroism that I could never imagined possible.
Amazing how supporters call Bashar courageous. I think Bashar is beyond coward. Delivering the body of a tortured child to the parents to shock, owe, intimidate and teach a lesson is beyond coward. I don’t know if there is any word in English or Arabic to explain such an act.
And Aboud, I agree to the statement that one should differentiate between visible and effective people within the opposition and I am sure we have many who are able to lead. I particularly like the spokesperson of the Syrian Revolution, an exile based in DC, very presentable with illuminating family history.
I am sure many read the ICG report but they just want to live in willful denial.
July 14th, 2011, 6:55 am
Aboud said:
Majed @ 44 “Abughassan is telling us that Bashar himself is going to announce sudden and major change”
With all due respects to Abu Ghassan who I like, but…YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWWN. The only thing I want to hear from Besho right now is what meal he’ll have on his flight to Tehran.
Tara @45 ” I particularly like the spokesperson of the Syrian Revolution, an exile based in DC, very presentable with illuminating family history.”
That young man is indeed very impressive. The opposition is running rings about the regime’s propagandists.
July 14th, 2011, 6:59 am
HS said:
Bashar / Barack
They are tall
how tall ? : State’s secret / look at celebrity.us
They are young , good looking with a short haircut
cooking / desperate housewife stops reading here
They married once with one beautiful, intelligent and educated wife
#/# Muslim Brothers stop watching here ( and start dreaming )
They have children
3/1 ( different birthrate )
They are educated
medicine / law
They come from a visible minority
alawi / christian sect + (I don’t notice it anymore)
They are God believers in a religious country with numerous sects
<10 / still counting ..
They thought about running for President after an accident
Basel‘ s car / Bush‘s … and … and …
They run for nomination against previous vice president
khaddam / she won her legitimacy when she lost her virginity
They run for election against previous vice president
khaddam / Sarah’s cavalier
They were elected with a good majority and were very popular
never had to finish the count / still not sure of the count
They are leader of socialist parties
Baath / Democrat
Their country have a birthrate problem because of backward mentality
too high / too low ( see below )
Their budgets needs refinancing by
IMF ( difficult ) / Federal Reserve ( as usual )
They have financial problems with their rich backers (bankers)
gulf kings / Republicans
They have a huge military budget with powerful ennemies
****** and Co / Al Qaeda and Co
They won prize from international jury
ICC (some are dreaming) / Peace (others are waiting) Nobel Prize
They want to close prisons opened by their predecessors
Tadmor / Guantanamo
They want to control arms for armed thugs
Muslim Brothers , smugglers , / drug dealers , bank robbers , ..
They have a powerful opposition with very old fashion project
MB / Tea Party
They have an opposition with huge Mean Stream Media powers
Al Jazeera / FOX
They have problem with a trouble making government
It does not want to give back Golan / budge
Altogether , they would like to have a cold beer at a cafe in Paris but some loud speaking powerful bad people in their countries don't want it but they are going to be reelected.
July 14th, 2011, 7:01 am
Tara said:
Aboud,
Besho?
Loved it!
July 14th, 2011, 7:02 am
HS said:
I just want to be humorous today.
To praise me ( I can always dream ) or to curse me ( very likely ) ,
please don’t pollute more this blog , email me hsyrianSPAMhush.com or twitter @hsyrian .
This my last day on SC ,
This is Revolution’s day ,
Just enjoy the fireworks.
July 14th, 2011, 7:02 am
Tara said:
HS
Bashar/ Barak
Dead man walking/ second term
July 14th, 2011, 7:06 am
Aboud said:
HS @ 49 When you put it that way….PALIN FOR PRESIDENT!!!!! :p
July 14th, 2011, 7:07 am
HS said:
Originally , I wanted to write Bashar versus Nicolas
but it did not worked at some point .
I don’t remember where !
Oh yes
Nicolas don’t drink alcohol !
July 14th, 2011, 7:08 am
Revlon said:
Haitham AlMaleh is emerging as a future leader of Syria.
He was surprised to be allowed to leave for Turkey two days ago.
He is to meet with the president of The EU
He will head the Istanbul venue of the Syrian opposition convention, to be synchronously held in Damascus.
Damascus venue shall be attended by representatives of the democratic national coalition and the declaration of Damascus as well as other other figures
The aim of the convention is to
– Discuss and adopt a comprehensive plan for the future of Syria.
– Elect a standby government to fill the vacuum once the regime falls
– Study measures to expedite the fall of the regime.
http://www.aawsat.com/details.asp?section=4&article=630840&issueno=11915
July 14th, 2011, 7:10 am
HS said:
Heard in French TV :
The french soldiers that coming back from Afghanistan ( I mean the one not exploded by Talibans ) are having a stage decompression stay in Cyprus.
The Hama Tourist Office should propose an intermediate stage .
July 14th, 2011, 7:13 am
Tara said:
Revlon
The regime does nothing benevolent. There must be a reason why he is now allowed to travel. He should be very careful in his dealings. They would love to get him tainted.
July 14th, 2011, 7:15 am
HS said:
I was wondering about political parties in democratic countries
USA 2
UK 2.5
Germany 2.5
France > 5
Syria
Licenced parties in the National Progressive Front:
Arab Socialist Baath Party (governing party)
Arab Socialist Movement
Arab Socialist Union
Communist Party of Syria (Khalid Bakdash faction)
Communist Party of Syria (Yusuf Faisal faction)
Social Democratic Unionists
Socialist Unionists
Syrian Social Nationalist Party
Democratic Socialist Unionist Party
Arabic Democratic Unionist Party
National Vow Movement
Clandestine parties operating in Syria or from exile include:
Syrian Democratic People’s Party
Arab Socialist Democratic Baath Party
Muslim Brotherhood (largest opposition group)
Reform Party of Syria
Antiglobalization Activists in Syria
United Islamic Front
Kurdistan Democratic Party of Syria
Kurdish Popular Union Party in Syria
United Kurdish Democratic Party in Syria
Kurdish Freedom Party
Kurdish Future Movement in Syria
Syrian Republican Party
Assyrian Democratic Party
Assyrian Democratic Movement
Assyrian Democratic Organization
Arab Communist Party
Democratic Arab Socialist Union
Movement of the Freedom and the National Solidarity in Syria
Christian Democratic Party of Syria
Hizb ut-Tahrir
Party of Modernity and Democracy for Syria
National Salvation Front in Syria
Syrian Democratic Current
Democratic National Liberation League of Syria
Liberal Democratic Union
National Democratic Front
National Party
People’s Party
Syrian Alentefah Party
Movement for Justice and Development in Syria
democratis islah party in syria
Looks like there is more parties than possible ministries ( imagination will be needed )
Also wait for the Kawah , Mai , Bira Party to counter the Tea party
July 14th, 2011, 7:22 am
HS said:
When someone complained about the employer of a maid being called by her Master ,
I started thinking that Master is a deformation of Mister .
In french Monsieur means My Landlord
and you have to call a lawyer Maitre ( Master ) even if you pay dearly for its services .
I wonder how the “journalists” of Al Jazeera call the employer apart Loan Sweet Home .
July 14th, 2011, 7:33 am
Tara said:
HS @55
Blood drinker party/ tea party
Haven’t you heard sabbiha slogan:
?? ???? ?? ???? ???? ????? ????? ??
July 14th, 2011, 7:40 am
OFF THE WALL said:
A few hate Bashar, but many many more, hate what he stands for and what he represented and continue to represent. If one wants to know why smart people insist on Bashar’s exit, think of the past 40 years including the recent 5 months of artificial national men7ebbak hysteria, and you will know why no one with half a brain trusts Bashar Al-Asad and his sycophants. If they get their way, watch out for the hysteric transition from Men7ebbak to Mne3dabak, as the sinister bankrupt media machine will go on overdrive to paint him as Syria’s rescuer and as the news constitution, hopefully with term limits, will be customized to allow him to remain a president for life, or at least for two additional terms (which will be stretched as long as possible) in hope to have enough time to circumvent the new reality once more by brute force if he can, or by constant delays as he has done for 11 years. It took the Baath 2 months to dismantle the parliamentary traditions of Syria, Hafez about few days to dismantle whatever left of political life in the country, albeit it was by then strictly within the Baath elites, and Bashar’s cronies few hours plus the few minutes of voting by raising hands to dismantle the last shred of respectability the State had as they costume tailored the constitution for the inexperienced Bashar Al-Asad.
The regime’s are not people who understand democracy, who know the rule of law, and who can identify with the Syrian people. Giving them and him any more time is gambling with the future of Syria far beyond having someone who else who is not coupled to a personality cult and who will have to answer to the Syrian people and to their uprising. We even have calls on this web site for allowing Bashar to run again. Rational people would say, he served two terms, and that is far more than enough for someone with his demonstrated competence level.
Bashar is capable of reform and he wants reform they tell us. I say, crude deceit is still on. It never stopped not even a single second for it irreparably permeates their way of thinking. If you argue for faith in Bashar Al-Asad., of for hope in having at some point in the future faith in him, just look carefully at the fake photo of swearing in the new governor of Hama (check Bashar’s right foot in front of the table leg and the fuzzy pixilation around his foot). That machination has made a life of negating the intelligence of Syrians and allowing this to continue for any more time beyond the minimal required for immediate least-violent surrender of power to a transitional government should be out of question for anyone who really cares about the future of Syria. It is not about revenge, it is not even about crime and punishment, with all due respect to Aboud, it is about wising up and not making the same mistake three times.
Whether you hate them personally or not, smart people from the opposition understand that a bright future of Syria is a fool’s errand with Bashar Al-Asad at the helm.
Speaking of pony tails, Brits, and others, who cares? the Syrian political landscape is expanding with new opposition talents every day. Arguing that the opposition has not presented a charismatic leader other than the three one personally hates is a mere replay of regime’s propaganda. I believe that this uprising may have no singular leadership, which is a good thing. Yet, a filtering mechanism is emerging through which politicians from traditional opposition, and emerging voices from those summoning courage, or pretenders, as well show offs, are all tested. Coordination committees have announced their demands long ago. And it is obvious that those who understood these demands have largely been credible opposition figures, who continue to reject deceitful dialog and insist on sincere (which is impossible for the regime) steps such as stopping the violence, and releasing all political detainees ( I call them hostages, since mafias take hostages not detainees). The bankruptcy and failure of the SAHARA conference is out there for all to see and it highlights not only how blind is the regime, but also how anemic, weak, and afraid it is. One of the most significant findings of the ICG report is expressed in one sentence “Arguably, the regime’s greatest strength lay in the fact that the Syrian people did not realise how weak it was”
Those who keep talking about the lack of charismatic leader are failing to reading the new realities as well as older history. Why should there be charismatic leaders and who needs them at this stage?. Revolutionary singular leaders gave nothing but pain to Arabs and others everywhere (Nasser, Qaddafi, Ali-Salih), and globally, the only ones we remember fondly are the handful who were wise enough to shun leadership after success or after having been in power for constitutional terms, or those who were martyred during their revolutions. All else have turned into authoritarian figures who gave themselves the authorities they rebelled against in the first place. I am encouraged more than discouraged by the lack of demagogue leaders on the credible opposition side. The uprising is dictating the game rules and the fact that they are not playing with the regime’s rules is what annoys the sycophants the most.
If you are not repulsed by the events described in Amal Hanano’s article, which gives you a sneak preview of Bashar’s vision of Syria under his reform plan, then you really need to ask yourself for the real reason you are suspending logic and negating your ability to read the actions, the mass hysteria theatrics of pageantry, and the continuing bloodletting and hostage taking, promoted and sanctioned by this fake reformer and whitewashed by distraction. If sectarian fear or concerns over a liberal lifestyle which you have confused with secularism, and that you fear will be lost is what motivates your suspension of logic, then you need to get out of it and join the Syrians who foiled and continue to foil the regime’s attempt to start sectarian strife and have clearly shown that an overtake by salafist of this uprising is only possible in the regimes’ tales from the crypt night time stories. Otherwise, just join the thugs of the electronic army, who are now threatening Syrian bloggers and their families. Sadly, I am yet to read any of those calling themselves pro-stability condemn the nationalistic Assadist hysteria. All I see them doing is nothing but celebrating this mindless obscenity, and participating in glorifying yet a bigger flag, with bigger image of next god. This is not nationalism, it is demagogic Fascism. The Hamwis responded once with a big flag, made their point, and then returned to the business of weakening the regime’s hold on their lives exactly as one wold expect from thoughtful non-violent (as opposed to peaceful) movements. The regime, as usual, got caught in its own spiral of demagoguery and will never stop descending further into its own slow suicidal stupidity.
All that, and I have not even begun commenting on the ICG report or on EHSANI’s outstanding and naturally challenging posts.
July 14th, 2011, 7:48 am
Revlon said:
54, Dear Tara, do not worry about him
He is an old timer, 80 plus.
He is a lawyer and a human rights activist.
He has been in and out of Jail for years in Syria.
He is a walking encyclopeida on the Syrian regime
Besides, wathing the actions and reactions of the regime over the last 4 months, I have learned not to expect complex plots from simple minds.
July 14th, 2011, 7:51 am
Tara said:
Revlon
Thx. Got it. You ‘re absolutely right. Do not expect complex plots from simple minds.
July 14th, 2011, 7:56 am
HS said:
About Sarah Tea Party and Syrian Tobacco
Neo con has a very graphic and appropriate meaning in french.
The Tea party started before the Revolution in America
where tea smuggling had always been extensive to evade British government taxes .
Now in Syria , tobacco smuggling in the reason why tax receipts from tobacco were $49 million for a country of 23 million people where 60% of people are smoking.
Expect that after the Revolution ,
the Syrian patriots will stop smoking imported cigarettes and use only water pipe with Syrian only tobacco ;
or better , Syria will become the first tobacco free in the world.
The Anti regime protesters should stop smoking NOW to ruin the state and the enriched smugglers .
Expect soon a No Smoke Friday .
July 14th, 2011, 8:24 am
EHSANI2 said:
HS,
In such a tight security state, why is tobacco smuggling so widespreadd?
How do you explain the fact that the security services turn a blind eye to smuggled tobacco sold on street “bastas” or by young teens roaming those same streets?
July 14th, 2011, 8:35 am
HS said:
I just want to be humorous today.
To praise me ( I can always dream ) or to curse me ( very likely ) ,
Please don’t pollute more this blog , email me hsyrianSPAMhush.com or twitter @hsyrian .
Don’t even answer to look funny.
This my last day on SC ,
This is Revolution’s day ,
Just enjoy the fireworks.
July 14th, 2011, 8:35 am
Aboud said:
OTW, thank you, I hope professor Landis highlights many of your excellent points and comments in his next post.
“One of the most significant findings of the ICG report is expressed in one sentence “Arguably, the regime’s greatest strength lay in the fact that the Syrian people did not realise how weak it was””
July 14th, 2011, 8:40 am
Mina said:
Palin for president, the world has to end in 2012 anyway.
July 14th, 2011, 8:43 am
HS said:
About the Tunisian vegetable seller
An educated jobless guy wanted to sell vegetables in the street but it was not allowed ( a license was necessary ).
Usually , the police turned a blind eye .
But that day , he was brutalized by a policeman who destroyed his stand and then he committed suicide by setting himself ablaze.
So the tale story goes .
Except that , in reality , we learned 4 months later that the policeman was a female city officer who simply asked to move his stand away from an official building. The officer was jailed and later on released with no charge pressed against her.
Meanwhile , the country has been set ablaze by “Revolution” .
May be some clever Syrian government officials have been thinking that chasing poor sellers of smuggled goods was not worth the time and effort spent.
By the way , do you have the figures of the imports of bananas in Syria ?
I always thought that the selling price and availability of bananas on the retail market was a very reliable economic indicator.
You could collect the information here from trusted sources in Syria.
July 14th, 2011, 8:53 am
majedkhaldoon said:
OTW
Not all charismatic leaders turned dictators,Mahatma Ghandi,Lech Walansa,Ronald reagan,all did not.I think Turkey has had some good charismatic leadership.
Certainly Democracy is better system,it has its shortcoming, and in the Arabic world,we have nothing but bad experience from our charismatic leaders,Syrian threw themselves to the hands of Nasser,that was a stupid move . it was a Baath trick,because they were loosing power,Baath party should be renamed to oppurtunistic party.
July 14th, 2011, 9:04 am
Aboud said:
HS @ 66 “Except that , in reality , we learned 4 months later that the policeman was a female city officer who simply asked to move his stand away from an official building. The officer was jailed and later on released with no charge pressed against her.”
Could you provide the source for your information. Thanks.
So much for “Did the USA inadvertently help Bashar”. The morale of the pro-Bashar crowd I’ve spoken to in Homs has hit rock bottom. They actually believed that the USA would never allow the overthrow of junior, and were actually propping him up. Clinton and Obama’s statements came as a complete shock to them.
All of a sudden, it’s hit them that their only friends are odious theocracies in Lebanon and Iran. These are the kinds of people who would leave the country rather than it be turned into another Iran.
Muallem’s backtracking hasn’t helped matters at all. The next bunch of thugs the regime hires to do something nasty, must be asking themselves if they are going to get disowned in the same way.
July 14th, 2011, 9:12 am
majedkhaldoon said:
In Turkey, Mr. Erbakhan was a charismatic leader.
July 14th, 2011, 9:21 am
HS said:
On myths and reality
In the first pages of the ICG report about the Deraa incidents , I read
” the trigger was the
arbitrary arrest and alleged torture of a group of children.”
The important word is “alleged” .
I always was wondering why the e-opposition so prompt to update lists and to upload graphic videos on Youtube was unable
1) to name the 15 children
( sure ; it is to protect the child identity but why the names of other children have been largely publicized )
2) to show pictures of the hands of the victims of the ALLEGED torture.
Were the images not available in the “Disney” video library ?
Looks like it to me it was the Syrian remake of the famous fake Tunisian policeman brutalizing a poor vegetable seller.
July 14th, 2011, 9:34 am
OFF THE WALL said:
Dear Majed
Thanks for the examples, albeit we may not agree fully on Reagan. I do agree that not all charismatic leaders turned out dictators. I believe that the core has to be a “Liberal”, or better yet, a healthy dose of “Libertarian” grounding in their intellectual foundation. This is the case for Lech Walessa, who by the way, is advising Tunisians now on the pains and difficulties of transition.
It was these characteristics of these people which was on my mind when I wrote
and globally, the only ones we remember fondly are the handful who were wise enough to shun leadership after success or after having been in power for constitutional terms, …
One example of charismatic leader who is turning into autocrat is Chavez, easily contrasted with Lula Da Silva of Brazil.
July 14th, 2011, 9:41 am
Amir in Tel Aviv said:
OTW,
#58 Excellent points ! I couldn’t agree more.
WD,
#31 Only a Democracy Can bring a peace, in which a peaceful solution to the issue of the Golan, could be achieved. A peace between the two peoples, Syrians and Israelis, if they wish to live in peace.
.
July 14th, 2011, 9:43 am
Aboud said:
HS @70 You still have failed to provide a source for your claims that the story behind Mohamed Bouazizi was faked.
Regarding the Dar’a children, I find your statement to be the height of Baathist wishful thinking. Bashar’s relative, the chief of security, was removed from his post. Releasing the children was heralded by state media as a magnanimous gesture on the part of Besho. Heck, delegates were sent back and forth between Damascus and Dar’a over these kids. And you would have us believe it was all faked?
People, I ask you, please tell me how are we supposed to move forward, and have a dialogue with regime supporters who refuse to acknowledge the basic realities on the ground. It’s like trying to come to an understanding with someone over the price of apples when he thinks he’s selling oranges.
July 14th, 2011, 9:44 am
Aboud said:
Amir @72 Wow, hold your horses there, aren’t we getting too far ahead of ourselves? I refuse to back a peace treaty unless certain conditions are met.
For starters, what’s Bar Refaeli’s phone number? Is Miss Gal Gadot seeing anyone? And I believe Alona Tal must star in a film to promote peaceful coexistence, and her male lead should be a certain Homsi.
I’m afraid without these confidence building steps, peace will remain a pipe dream. But I am willing to compromise on all these points. Except for Miss Bar’s phone number.
July 14th, 2011, 9:50 am
HS said:
On myth and reality in free press coverage
At the beginning of the Libyan revolution , a woman stormed into the hotel hosting the journalist of the free press and allegedly said she has been raped.
True or not , it is not the point .
She was arrested by the Libyan regime , then after a short time sent to Qatar under the pressure of the free press.
In Qatar she may have appeared on an Al Jazeera show , it is not the point .
In Qatar , she asked for political asylum to the UNHCR in a democratic western country.
Before the UNHCR could accept her request , despite UNHCR’s protest and against her will ,
she was expelled to Benghazi ( Libya ).
I wonder why she was then reported “hiding” there .
May be the MBs ruling Benghazi are not to sympathetic to raped women and find her an embarrassment in their propaganda.
July 14th, 2011, 10:04 am
Aboud said:
HS @75 Excuse me, maybe there was something not quite clear when I said “What is your source for claiming that the story of Mohamed Bouazizi was faked”
Because although you replied with 15 lines of text, all I saw was the word “CONSPIRACY” in big bold letters.
July 14th, 2011, 10:07 am
abughassan said:
There is no clear alternative to Bashar at this minute,however,Syria is more than able to provide new leadership but that takes more than 4 months (uprising started in March).Bashar is not stepping down next week,and some in his circle will try to prolong his presidency as much as they can. ironically,keeping the regime intact for a period of time is not necessarily bad for the opposition which needs time to organize and rally support. There is conflicting reports about Bashar’s personal intentions,my sources indicate that he wants out but on his terms and not before he puts the country on the right track (these are not my words). Those who wants him to resign NOW are mostly angry and did not think enough about the consequences of a power vacuum and the reaction from the army. Not enough people paid enough attention to the army issue,this can make or break any future deal. there is way too much excitement and optimism on some on the opposition side,and some of that is mere euphoria.I was glad they let Mr Al-Maleh leave to Turkey,that by itself is an indication of a new era,security forces was ORDERED to let him go.
I disagree with those who think he might become president,however,I see him as a candidate for a future leadership position.
Members of the MB will not have to face the death penalty and may actually be invited to talk to certain political figures sympathetic to the regime but not directly involved in decision-making,they are called “mediators” ,behind closed doors,the MB will deny that they are invited or that they will meet with regime directly or indirectly.
finally,do not write albaath off yet,it still has some support,and even if it gets dissolved,it will emerge under a different name with a different leadership,Bashar will NOT be part of that leadership.
One poster thought that by talking about Bashar’s statement in the next few days I somewhat indicated that I trust his leadership or that he will keep his position as long as he wishes,that is not the case,but unless he changes his mind,I expect his statements on TV to be a major development and trigger a mix of relief and outrage. His close associates did not want him to go too far but some of his top generals have reportedly asked that he does not send the army to areas where security forces can do the job !!
Again, look at the army…
July 14th, 2011, 10:41 am
Tara said:
Amir,
You asked me once what is Tara’s definition of a just peace.
A just peace in Tara’s view is a peace where the will of the “powerful” is not imposed on others. A peace where justice is not defined by the interest of the powerful.
Yes I am/was very fond of HA. You can not get to a just peace when you are defeated. A just peace is perhaps what Yasser Arafat once defined as ???? ???????. Fair?
And if I read your invisible ink correctly, My answer would be: NO. I do not call for the death of 7 million Israelis. I value any human life as much as I value my own and I believe people are created equal under god.
July 14th, 2011, 10:56 am
Aboud said:
Abu Ghassan @77 There is an alternative, one which the opposition suggested. A respected and trusted person takes Bashar’s place for a transitional period, during which free and fair elections are held.
See, it doesn’t have to be complicated. Bashar could announce such a move this evening, and the country would be better off. There are any number of people in Syria, some even members of the current government, that can be trusted to see Syria through a transitional period.
Majority rule, with respects to minority rights. The will of the majority of the population is carried out, without trampling on the rights of the minority with a different opinion.
“I was glad they let Mr Al-Maleh leave to Turkey,that by itself is an indication of a new era,security forces was ORDERED to let him go.”
You are far, far too optimistic. Najati Tayara still remains in jail just for speaking with the satellite channels. The regime’s crackdown on the demonstration of actors and intellectuals yesterday was appalling, and puts the lie to their expressions of reforms.
July 14th, 2011, 10:59 am
majedkhaldoon said:
There is already a constitution written and available to the public,The opposition leaders are saying, Burhan Ghalion,and Haytham Manna.
I support Haytham Al Maleh to be president,because he is knowledgable,has a long history of being judge and human wright leader,and still has sharp mind, he is practical and moderate,and well respected.
Do not expect Bashar to resign ,ever,and there will be no vaccum.
Bashar will run away,but will get caught.
The loyalty of the army is begining to fade.the part of the army that betrayed the people are limited to the republican guards, and the fourth brigade,and the rest is still good people.
July 14th, 2011, 11:15 am
Syria no kandahar said:
???? ?? ??????? ????? ???????? ?????? ????? ??? ?????
????? ???? ????? ????????
???? ???????_???? ??? ?????
?????-?????
???????-???? ??? ????
????-???? ?????????
??????-??? ???????
??????-??? ????
July 14th, 2011, 11:19 am
Real Syrian said:
to 80
whom is called majedkhaldoun
As you are busy in naming the positions in the next Syrian government including the president himself ………..I suggest you as a minister of health or the governor (prince) of Latakia Islamic Iemara….. Get up from your delusions and focus more on psychiatry……………
July 14th, 2011, 11:21 am
abughassan said:
Abboud,I was just speaking about Al-Maleh,I know very well that there are too many Syrians in jail for just speaking out. Al-Maleh was let go with the regime knowing where he is heading and for what reason but they still won’t stop him or arrest him,Syria today is not the same as Syria before March 18th.
I realize that there are many Syrians who are qualified to lead Syria,but there is no consensus in Syria today about any of those potential leaders,and nobody will be able to force a newcomer on the army and the security forces without proper preparations and dialogue and then elections (rumors about a transitional military council disappeared afte a relatively peaceful period in Syria).
In that sense,I tend to disagree with many of you who think Bashar can leave tomorrow and suddenly the sun starts to shine again.It is not enough to say we want Bashar out,the opposition needs a plan with specific ideas and specific names,and that may be coming in the next few weeks..too much sauce on the opposition plate but not enough meat 🙂
July 14th, 2011, 11:21 am
majedkhaldoon said:
Tara
I think you are a doctor, doctors respect human life, and treat their patients equally.
July 14th, 2011, 11:25 am
HS said:
About tourism promotion
Some people were not happy about the Vogue’s promotion of tourism in Syria , the magazine removed the page of their site ( at least tried ). ( I can supply it on request )
I heard on French TV when french soldiers are coming back from Afghanisatan
( where , yesterday , 5 soldiers died in suicide attack by Taliban – the afghan MBs )
they have a decompression stage ( a stay in a coastal city ) ) before going back to their families.
Could I suggest the Hama and Homs tourist office to promote their additional decompression stage with full participation of the local MBs.
July 14th, 2011, 11:30 am
Tara said:
All except Majedkhaldoon please skip this post.
Majedkhaldoon
Forgot my “cooking” background?
I am all about style. I made a decision. My next vacation will be in Iran. I think I would like Mina to come with me. She asked me once to watch Iranian movies. She said Iranian movies won international awards and they are pretty creative. It would be my chance to immerse myself into creativity because I am missing some.
The truth is I want to look around and help finding “Besho” a trendy chic apartment in Tehran. In case…
Sorry I feel silly today.
July 14th, 2011, 11:50 am
jad said:
The UN oh the Fair, Just, Honest, Balanced, Peace promoting, Culture promoting and Higher moral organization and it\’s branches!
White Supremacy!
???? ????? ????? ??????? ??????? ?????? ???????? \”?????????\” ????? ????? ??????? ??? ?????? ?????????? ????????? ????? ??\”???????\”? ????? ????? ???? ???????? ????????? \”????\” ???? ?? ????? ???? \”?????????\”.
July 14th, 2011, 11:54 am
Aboud said:
Abughassan @83 “.too much sauce on the opposition plate but not enough meat”
Hehehe 🙂
Whoever takes over from Bashar doesn’t have to be a leader in every sense of the word, just a caretaker. The qualifications to lead a transitional period are not as strenuous as those needed for a four or five year term.
July 14th, 2011, 12:00 pm
5 dancing shlomos said:
you will not get real democracy (whatever this actually means) in syria no matter the blather from the zionized west and foolish and duplicitous syrians. note reaction to palestinians and haitians for electing hamas, aristide and not the west’s puppet dogs.
selection from husayn al-kurdi at bellachaio re libya. applies also to syria:
“…it seems that some wayward youth are hypnotized here and elsewhere into thinking that America “knows best”, is invincible and would bring some exciting Hollywood-based culture into Libya. Some people who have directly benefited from the Libyan revolution are thereby turned against it by the phony allure of American consumerist capitalism. All of this forms the witches’ brew which has been used to settle the score with Qaddafi for deviating in so many ways from the American Plan for Libya, for the Arabs, for Africa and the rest of the world.”
http://bellaciao.org/en/spip.php?article20953
pete peterson institute has no problems with sanctions as long as the suffering inflicted on the people of syria achieves the goals zionized west.
the perspective of the pp institute is that the defense of syria by the syrian govt is unjustified violence and the west’s violent interference, also known as war, is justified.
ole pete peterson is also waging war against the elderly and poor and disabled in america.
he wants to privitize soc security so that the bloodsuckers he represents can steal the money from america’s workers.
the same is in store for syria and libya.
July 14th, 2011, 12:07 pm
Mina said:
Aboud in Lalaland,
This
http://arabcrunch.com/2011/01/the-last-facebook-status-update-of-bouazizi-who-set-him-self-on-fire-marking-starting-the-tunisian-revolution.html
was proven fake because the guy who started to launch the FB activity was not the guy who immolated himself and had no FB account.
http://www.rnw.nl/english/article/good-guys-also-manipulate-social-media
plus he was never slaped by the police woman
http://www.liberation.fr/monde/01012342664-la-revolution-de-la-gifle
http://www.memri.org/report/en/0/0/0/0/0/0/5459.htm
You should get your “Iraq 2003” books ready. In a time of crisis no doubt the ambitious young men will be many. Back to the 50’s?
July 14th, 2011, 12:09 pm
jad said:
As long as those incidents still happening many Syrians wont support this uprising, those street thugs are becoming like Shabab Somalia and Taliban.
I’m not sure how long the government and the army can restrained themselves for:
?????? ??????? ?????? ?? ??? ?????? ????? ?????? ???? ?????..???????? ????? ????? ??? ??? ??????? ???? ?????
????-??? ?????-????
???? ????? ???? ????? ?? ?????? ?? ??????? ????? ??? ?????? ??????? ?????? ?? ???? ??? ?????? ????? ?????? ???? ????????? ??? ????? ??????.
??? ???? ??????? ????? ????? ???? ????? ????? ??????? ??? ??? ??????? ?? ????????.
?????? ??? ????????? ??????? ??????? ???? ?????? ????? ??????? ???????? ?? ??????? ??? ????? ??????? ????? ??? ????? ??????? ???????? ?????? ??? ??????? ???????? ???? ??? ??????? ????????? ????????.
http://sana.sy/ara/336/2011/07/14/358329.htm
Armed Men Kidnap two Law Enforcement Members and Secondary School Student in Hama
Jul 14, 2011
HAMA, DEIR EZZOR (SANA) – SANA correspondent in Hama said on Thursday that some armed men kidnapped two law enforcement members and a secondary school student to unknown place.
Veiled armed groups put Barriers on Roads, Force Shop Owners to Close
In Deir Ezzor province, veiled armed groups tried to put up barriers on roads, forced shop owners to close their shops in the city, terrified families, threatened citizens and destroyed some stores whose owners refused to respond to their demands.
http://sana.sy/eng/337/2011/07/14/358336.htm
July 14th, 2011, 12:10 pm
why-discuss said:
Abughassan, Abboud
Abboud, do you have names of ‘trusted’ person who can lead the transition, or it is just wishful thinking?
You say they are are hidden behind facebook. When are they expecting to come out so we can evaluate them to see if they are trustworthy and what is their program ?
As long as faces remain hidden, their program remains murky and they have one slogan: End to regime, I don’t see much to hope for an imminent change.
The ‘trusted’ ones we know are above 80 and are human right activist and intellectuals, with lots of theoretical and historical knowledge, but no grasp with the political realities to what is to rule a country as complex as Syria.
I wish Syria had someone like Mikati, but I don’t see any.
The SC opposition is turning in a circle with nothing in the horizon except mixed messages from the confused international community.
In my view, next July 2012, unless there is extraordinary development, Bashar will still be in charge and would be leading the transition. If he presents himself for presidency again, I think there is high chance he will reelected.
July 14th, 2011, 12:17 pm
Mina said:
Reality check? The broader context?
http://www.lemonde.fr/proche-orient/article/2011/07/14/la-ligue-arabe-veut-faire-reconnaitre-la-palestine-a-l-onu_1548904_3218.html
http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/quartet-efforts-failed-over-jewish-state-recognition-1.372926
(oh, yeah, don’t tell me… you didn’t read it on the front page of the bbc news, of the nyt, of… )
July 14th, 2011, 12:18 pm
jad said:
Napoleon speaks out and China is with the DIALOGUE!
???? ?????? ??????? ?????? ??????? ??? ?????? 14 ?????/???? ?? ?? ??????? ??? ?????? ????? ??? ?????? ???? ?????? ?????? ?????? ???? ???????? ?? ????? ????? ??????.
???? ??????? ??????? ?? ?????? ????????? ??? ????? ??????? ???????? ?? ??? ???????? ?? ?????? ???? ???? ????? ?? ???? ???????? ????? ?? ?????? ??? ????? ????? ????? ?????? ??? ??????.
???? ?????? ???????: “???? ?????? ?????? ??? ????? ????.. ?????? ????? ????? ???????? ?? ?????? ???? ?????? ???? ?????? ?? ????”. ??? ????? ???? ??? ??????? ??? ?? ???? ???? ??? ????? ???? ????? ?????? ????? ???? ???? ??????? ??????? ????? ?????.
???????? ???????: ????? ???? ????? ???? ????? ??? ?? ????? ?? ?????? ????? ???? ??????
??? ??? ??? ?????? ?????? ???? ????? ???????? ??????? ??? ?????? ?? ??????? ???? ?????? ???? ????? ?????? ???? ????? ??? ?? ????? ?? ?????? ????? ???????? ????????? ?? ??? ??????.
???? ?????????? ?? ????? ???? ?? ????? ?? ????? ????? ?? ??????? ?????? ????????? ?????????? ???? ?????? ?? ???? ???.
????? ????? ?? ????? ???? ???? ?? ?? ????? ???? ????? ?? ????? ?????? ???? ????? ?? ??? ???????? ?? ?????? ????? ????. ????? ?? ???? ????? ??? ?? ???? ???? ??????? ?? ????? ?? ?? ???????? ???????? ????? ?????? ?????? ???????
July 14th, 2011, 12:21 pm
Mina said:
Tara,
Sorry, you can go to Iran by yourself (i was not the only one recommending Iranian movies, even from before the 79 revolution they were good… but you try to discredit some people on the forum… ok it’s your job, you get paid for that, no prob’; don’t miss the next Panahi, he managed to make it while in jail and while forbidden to make movies; when Syrians will get to that level of creativity, they will manage to succeed in their revolutions).
Iran is a bit like Syria: there IS 51 percent of conservatives. So even with a democratic system, you’ll get stuck with cheikhs, priests, corrupt officers, patriarcal tribemen, etc.
Just as Dancing Shlomos explained it, some people think that the West just want freedom for everybody. That’s a little bit short-sighted I would say. Why don’t they start with Mexico?
July 14th, 2011, 12:28 pm
abughassan said:
I see no chance of Bashar running for a third term,and he may not even finish his second term,the mood in Syria is toxic and largely anti Bashar. I do not discount the fact that he has some support among Syrians but that support is weakening. I am particularly outraged at the response of security forces in Damascus against Syrian artists who were only armed with ideas and slogans,I did not even see a single banner denouncing Bashar or asking for his removal.
July 14th, 2011, 12:29 pm
why-discuss said:
Is Silvan the Turkey’s Jisr al Shorough? As the battle rages.
Ankara on high alert as 13 killed in clashes
http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/n.php?n=ankara-on-high-alert-as-13-killed-in-clashes-2011-07-14
July 14th, 2011, 12:35 pm
5 dancing shlomos said:
the mood of the people in syria is toxic against the zionized west’s interference and its waging of war against their govt and them.
if the people were largely anti bashar, he would most likely already be gone same as mubarak and ben ali.
the people of syria by a very large majority support their president.
July 14th, 2011, 12:39 pm
Nour said:
Abughassan:
I’ve been getting a lot of similar information to what you’re getting, although I’ve tried not to say much. The situation in the inner circle of the regime is more complicated than what most people perceive, and I think for at least this period Bashar is needed to make necessary changes inside the regime, otherwise the smooth transition of power has no chance of succeeding. I think we are soon going to see major changes, absent some unanticipated occurrence, such as a coup, although I think the likelihood of that is very slim. The point is I think we are going to arrive at what most Syrians are hoping for, and therefore, as you said, it would be smart for the opposition to start seriously planning ahead, rather than settle for mere rhetoric.
July 14th, 2011, 12:40 pm
Aboud said:
Mina @90 Your links are as useful as I’ve come to expect from the pro-regime crowd. The MEMRI link doesn’t mention “the guy” as you refer to him. The RNW link gives no details whatsoever. And I’m not even going to bother with those lunatics at Arabcrunch, who a year ago were hysterically yelling that the CIA were out to get them.
If that’s the best you can do, then it’s no wonder the regime is in the predicament it is in.
@92 Why Discuss “In my view, next July 2012, unless there is extraordinary development, Bashar will still be in charge and would be leading the transition. If he presents himself for presidency again, I think there is high chance he will reelected.”
The events of the past four months aren’t extraordinary enough for you? And if you are so sure Besho is loved by so many, let him stand for elections. Go on, I dare Bashar Hafez Al-Assad to stand for free and fair elections.
Don’t be disingenuous, not only will he never allow a proper democracy to flourish in Syria, he even considers a demonstrations of actors in Damascus a threat to his leadership, such that it is.
July 14th, 2011, 12:41 pm
jad said:
Horrible day for the uprising, forcing people to do what they want wont get them any sympathy.
This is why you need heads for those thugs in the street terrifying people and whoever says otherwise and glorifying the ‘no-head’ ‘no-leader’ ‘no-organization’ movement is living in fantasy and calling for the destruction of a nation.
????? ?? ???? ???? ????? ???? ?????
???? ????? ????????? ??? ?????? ???? ?? ??? ?? ??????? ?? ???? ?????? ?????? ??? ??? ????? ?????? ?????? ?????? ???? ???? ??? ?? ?????????? ??????? ????? ??? ?? ???????? ???????? ???? ???? ?????? ?????? ?????? ??? ????? ??????, ????? ???? ??? ??????.
????? ?????? ?? “??? ????? ??? ??? ????? ??? ????? ?????? ?? ??????? ??? ?????? ??? ??? ?? ?????????? ?????? ??????? ???? ???? ?????? ????????,??? ?????? ????? ?????? ???????? ???? ??? ?????? ?????? ????, ???? ?????? ?? ?????????? ??? ?? ????? ????? ????? ??????????”.
????? ????? ????? ???????? ??? ???? ??????? ????????? ???????? ??? ????? ?????? ??? ?? ?????? ?? ????? ??? ????? ????? ???.
????60 ????? ???????? ???? ????? ??????? ?? ??? ????? ??? ??????? ?????? ???? ??????, ??? ??? ????????? ??????? ??? ?????? ??????? ????? ?????? ?? ??????????? ??????? ?????? ???????, ??????? ????? ?????? ??????? ??????? ?????? ??? ?????, ??? ?? ???? ????.
????? ??? ????? ??? ??? ??????? ????????? ????? ??? ????? ????? ?????? ?? ???? ??????? ???? ?????? ???????? ??????? ?????? ???? ?????? , ???? ?? ????? ????? ??? ???? ????.
???? ??? ?? ??? ????? ??? ???? ??? ??? 4 ???? ??????? ????? ???? ?????? ????? ??????? ??????? ?????? ?????? ??????, ?????? ?? ???? ????? ?????? ???????? ?????? ???, ???? ??????? ??????? ??? ????? ??????? ?????, ???? ???? ????? ??????? ??????? ???????? ????? ?????? ??? ?????????.
?????????
http://syria-news.com/readnews.php?sy_seq=134970
July 14th, 2011, 12:43 pm
Tara said:
Abboud, Abughassan and Why-Discuss,
This argument is invalid. This is a revolution. Bashar supporters want to see a “program” for after Bashar era as if we are living in a democratic country during election time and we are asked to make a decision in regard to which program we like more.
The “program” now is the overthrow of the regime period. A transitional caretaker government can lay down the infrastructure that should culminate into free and informed election. Thereforer, it is not important who immediately comes after Bashar. It is important what follows.
Mina, I am getting a bonus from my paid job you are describing and that is why I thought of a second vacation to…Iran.
July 14th, 2011, 12:46 pm
Akbar Palace said:
the people of syria by a very large majority support their president
5 Dancing Ahmads,
You claim is unsubstantiated. How about an election, or is Assad too afraid?
July 14th, 2011, 12:47 pm
jad said:
Abughassan
“I did not even see a single banner denouncing Bashar or asking for his removal.”
They were shouting “DOWN WITH THE REGIME”
???? ????? – ?? ??????? ??? ???????
http://youtu.be/ZPzuEBjDj2w
Here you go what Bassam wrote about the ‘intellectual&artists’ and he is right:
?????? ??????.. ??????!
?????? ???? ??????
14/ 07/ 2011
?? ????? ??????? “?????? ????????” ??? ??? ???? ??? ?? ??? ?? ???! ??? ?? ?????? ????? ??? ??? ????? ??? ?????? ??? ??? ?? ????? ??? ?????? ??? ???! ??? ?? ?????? ?????? ??? ????? ????? ??? ????????! ?? ???????: ???????? ?? ?????? ???? ?????? ????? ???????? ???? ?? ???? ?? ?????? ?????? ??? ???? ???????.. ?? ??? ????? ??? ??????? ?? ???? ???????? ??? ???? ??? ????? ?????? ????????? ???????.
??? ??? ?? ???? ???? ?? ???? ?????? ??? ?? ?????? ??? ?????? ??? ?????? ???????. ?????? ????? ??? “?????”!
?????? ??? ?? ??????? ???? ?????? ?????? ??? ?????? ???????? ????? ?????? ??????! ?????? ?? ?? ????? ??????? ??????? ???? ??? ?????? ?????? ???? ??? ?? ????? ?????? ??? “?????? ???”! ?????? ?? ???? ??? ????? ????? ?????? ??? ???? ?????????? ???? ?? ?? ????? ?????! ?????? ?? ?? ????? ??????? ?? ????? ???? ???? ?? ??????? ?? ??? ???? ????? ??? ????? ????????? ???????? ????? ?? “??? ????? ??????”!
???? ????? ?????? ?? ?? ??????? “???? ?????” ?? ?? ??????? ????? ????????? ???????!
???? ??? ?????? ??? ?? ??? ?? ??? ???? ?? ???? ?????????? ?? ?????? ???? ?????? ?? ????? ??? ?????????. ???? ?? ?????? ?? ?????? ??? ???? ?????? ??????? ????? ?????? ???? ??????. ??? ??? ????? “????????” ????? ?? ???? ??????!
???? ?? ????? (??? ?? ??????)? ???? ???? ?????? ?? ???????? ??????? ??? ?????? ?????? ??????? ????? ???????? ????? ???????? ?? ?? “??????? ??????” ????????? ??? ???????? ?? ?????? ??? ????? ???????! ??? ?? ??? ???? “??? ??????” ?????? ?????? ??? ??????? ????? (????) ???????? ???? ?????? ??? “?????? ???????????? ????????”? ?????? ?? “??????? ?????????? ?????? ???????”! ?????? ?????? ??????! ?? ?? ??????? ??? ??? ????? ?????? ????? ????? ?????? ???????? ???? ??????? ????? ??? ?????!
?? ????? ???? ????? ????? ??? ?? ??????? ??????? ?? ?????? ??? ????? ??? “???” ?? ??? ???????? ?????? ????? ????? ?????! ??? ?????? ?? ??????? ??? ??????? ?????? ??? ?????? ????? ?????? ??? ????? ?????? ???!
???: ????? ??????? ??????!
?????? ?? ?????? ?????? ?? ????? ???? ????? ??????? ??? ????? ??? ????? ?????? ??? ?????! ????? ??? ????? ?????: ???? ???????? ???????? ?? ??? 125 ???? ?? ????? ?? ??? ??????! ??? ?? ??? ????? ????? ??? ?? ???? ??? ???? ??????? ??? ???? ?? ???? ??? ????: ?? ??? ???? ?? 350 ????? ?????? ?? ?????? ??????? ?????? ?????????!
?????? ??? ????? ??????? ?????? ?????: ??? ??? ???? ?????????? ????????? ????? ????? ????? ????: ????? ????? ??????? ?? ?? ???? ??????! ???? ?? ?????? ?????? ???? ???????? ??? ?? ?????? “??????” ?????? ?? ????? ??????? ??????????!
??? ??????? ????? ??? ??????? ??????? ???????? ?? ?? ???? (???? ?????? ?? ???? ???????? ????? ??? ?????? ?????? ?? ?????) ??? ?????? ?? ?????? ?? ???? ???? ????? ????? ??? ???????? ????? ????? ??? ????? ???????? ?????????? ?????? ?????? (??? 18 ???) ??? ?????????? ?????? ?????? ?????? ???? ?? ?????? ??? ????? ??? ?????? ??? ???? ??? ??????!
?? ??? ?? ???? ?????? ????? ?????? ?? ?????? ??? ??? ????? ????????. ??? ??? ?? ???? ?????? ?????? ?????? ?? ????? ??? ??????? ??? ????? ??? ??????? ???? ??????.
?? ?? ???? ???? ??: ?? ??? ????? ?? ???? ??? ???? ?? ????? ?????? ?????? ????? ???? ?? ????? ?? ???? ??? ??????????? ??????? ??? ??????? ?????? ????????? ????? ?? ????? ??????? ?? ?????? ????? ?? ????? ??????? ?? ?????? ?? ?????. ?????????? ????????? ???? ?? ????? ?????? ?? ?? ???? ?? ??????? ???????? ???????? ????? ??????? ????????? ????????? ???? ?? ????? ?????? ?? ?? ???? ?? ??????? ???????? ????????. ?????? ??? ???? ???? ?????? ?? ??????? ????????.
??? ?????? ??? “?????” ???? ?????? ?? ?????? ???? ????? ???? ??? ???? ?????? ??? ?????! ?? ??????? ???? ???????? ??? ??? ???? ??? ??? ??? ??? ????! ?? ??????? ??? ????? ?????? ?????? ????? ?????? ?????? ??? ????? ????? ?? ??? ?????? ????? ???????? ?????? ??????? ???????!
??? ?????? ???? ????????? ?? ???? ???? ????.
??? ???????? “??????” ????????? ?????????? ?????? ??? ??????? ???? ?????? ?????.
????? ?????? ????? ????? ??????? ???? ???? ???????? ?? ??? ?? ????? ????? ????? ?????? ???????.. ??? ???? ????? ???? ???? ??? ??????? ??? ??? ????: ???? ?????? ????? ??? ??????..
http://www.bassam-alkadi.com/content/view/620/44/
July 14th, 2011, 12:55 pm
jad said:
????? ?????? ??? ???????? ???????? ???????? ?????: ??????!
?????? ???? ??????
14/ 07/ 2011
?? ??? ???????? ???????? ????????? ????? ????????? ????????? ????? ????? ????? ?? ??????? ??? ?????????? ??? ????? ??? ??????? ??????? ????? ?????????? ??? ???? ??? ????? ??????? ????? ??? ????? ??? ????? ???????? ????????? ??? ???? ?????? ?????? ?????? ??? ?????? ?????? ??????? ?? ?????? ?? ???? ??????? ?? ???? ??? ?? ?? ???? ?? ????? ??? ?????????? ???? ??????? ???????? ???? ?????? ????????????!
??????? ?? ?????? ???? ???? ??????? ???? ??? ???? ???. ????? ???????? ?????? ????? ???????? ?????? ??? ?????? ?????? ???? ????? ????????? ?? ????? ?????? ??????? ??????? ??? ????? ?? ????? ?? “?? ?????? ??????”!
??????? ?????? ?? ??????? ???? ??????? ????????? ?? ????? ?????? ??? ?????? ???????? ??? ?? ???? ??????? ???? ?? ???????? ????? ?? ?????? ????? ?????? ??????? ???? ?????? ?? ????? ?? ?????? ????? ?????? ??????? ??? ?????? ??????? ???????? ??????????? ?? ???????? ???????? ????? ???? ????? ?? ????? ???? ???? ????? ???? ??”???? ???????” ??? ?? ???? ????? ???? ????? ?? ??? ???? ??????? ??????? ?? ????? ???? ????? ???? ??? ??? ????? ????? ?????????? ?????? ????? ???? ????? ??? ????? ????? ?????????? ?????.
??? ????? “????? ???????? ?? ??? ??????” ??? ???? ????? ?????? ???????. ???? ????? ???????? ????????? ?? ??? ?????? ?????????? ?? ???? ????? ?????? ??????? ????? ??? ???????? ???? ?? ??? ???????? ???? ??? ?? ??? ???? ??????? ?????? ???????? ?? ?????? ???? ?????? ???????????? ???? ????? ????? ?? ????? ????? ??? ??? ????? ??? ?? ?????
????? ?????? ??? ??? ?? ????? ????? ?????? ????? ?????????? ?? ?????? ????? ???????? ??????? ????????!
??? ???? ??? ???????? ???????? ?? ???? ????? ?????? ?????? ?????? ??? ?? ???????? ????????. ???? ???? ????? ?????? ?? ???? ??????? ??????? ????????? ????????? ??? ?????? ???????? ?? ???? ???? ????? ??????? ?????? ??????? ??? ????? ????? ????? ?? ???? ????? ????? ????? ?????? ?? ???? ????? ???????..
????? ???? ??? ?? ?????? ?? ?????? ???? ????? ??????? ???????? ??? ?? ???? ????? ????? ?? ???. ????? ???????? ??? ?????? ????? ????? ?? ???????? ?? ?? ???? ???? ???? ?? ??? ????? ?? ??????? ????? ???? ??? ????? ?? ????? ?? ???? ?? ????? ?? ???? ?? ????? ?? ???? ??…
?????? ????? ?????????? ????????? ????????? ??? ??????? ????? ?????? ??? ??????? ??? ???????? ???????? ?? ????? ????? ????????????? ?????? ?????????? ?????? ??????? ??????? ????? ?? ?????? ?????? ?????? ??????? ?????? ??????? ????? ??????? ????????
??? ????? ????? ??? ???? ?? ????? ?? ??? ??????? ???? ?????? ???? ??????? ?????? ?????..
????? ???? ????? ???? ?? ???? ???? ??? ??????? ?????? ??????? ????????? ????????? ???? ?????? ???????? ???????? ???????? ?????..
????? ???? ????: ????? ??????? ????? ????? ??? ???? ??????? ????? ???????. ??????? ??? ?? ???? ???? ?? ???????? ?? ???????.. ???? ??? ???? ????? ????? ?? ?????? ????? ???? ??? ?????.. ??? ??? ????? ??????? ?? ??? ????? ??? ???? ??? ???? ????? ?????? ??? ??????? ???????: ?????!
http://www.bassam-alkadi.com/content/view/621/44/
July 14th, 2011, 1:05 pm
Aboud said:
@90 JAD “the ‘no-head’ ‘no-leader’ ‘no-organization’ movement”
And yet your Besho, head of a government, head of the army, with an organized security apparatus, has after four months failed to come to grips with the situation, end it, negotiate with it, compromise with it, ANYTHING to show that he is in charge of events, and not the other way round.
Sorry, but that just makes junior look…pathetic.
“They were shouting “DOWN WITH THE REGIME””
Down with the regime. Down with it to the very core of the Earth. Junior doesn’t need anyone to dig his hole for him, but I’d be happy to supply the shovel.
July 14th, 2011, 1:10 pm
Tara said:
I am changing my mind about Bassam Alkadi. His writings is increasingly revealing itself to be ingenuine. I’d rather deal with “kill all protestors” menhebak guy than to read his writings.
Just saying..
July 14th, 2011, 1:11 pm
abughassan said:
Jad,down with the regime is what most Syrians said or want to say,even Bashar,I think would love to get rid of this regime and end his term with dignity but he does not have that luxury now,I do not believe he will,or he should, finish his second term. What security forces did with those artists is stupid and evil.
Tara,this is not a widespread revolution,the country is not united against Bashar,and overthrowing the regime is not a program,it is a goal,but with it the opposition needs to give alternatives and a platform,I heard that this is in the making. I maintain my opposition to any attempt to force Bashar out now until I am comfortable with who comes next,and sure that the army is on board.Bashar’s supporters suggested that he should run for re-election and that he can win,I do not believe he should run again but I do not know if he can win,I will not vote for him anyway,my guess is that he will,at least, face stiff competition in any fair election. for the sake of Syria’s unity,I do not want him to be president after the ground is leveled for new elections and a new government.
July 14th, 2011, 1:12 pm
5 dancing shlomos said:
“An Iraqi pipeline carrying crude oil to Syria was blown up”
part of the sanctions war, sorry, program, against syria by the zionized west.
expect similar against syrian pharmaceutical industries’ exports to iraq, other.
July 14th, 2011, 1:14 pm
HS said:
On little secrets
At the end of the Revolution in Tunisia , some young people became jobless ( The tourists did not come back in free Tunisia ) .
They decided to go to Europe from Lampedusa to find a job and formed a small group in Lampedusa ( an island off the Tunisian coast ) and ended up in Paris where the socialist city major , always ready to back the Tunisian young boys expelled from the park where they were sleeping.
They found a refuge in the unoccupied office of the former party of the Tunisian regime.
There , they looked at the papers and found several invoices from some members of free press to the Tunisians for a propaganda of the former regime.
This reminded me of the Stasi papers ( East Germany ) which showed that many people spied on their neighbours or parents or colleagues
among the spies , there was a very well known writer also human right activist .
And the story that in some countries , the political prisoners are being freed after being convinced to spy for the government service secrets.
An old man with a very adventurous life married a younger Austrian girl .
After their marriage , they started to discuss in detail their respective families.
At one point , the man started to speak about his imprisonment for political activities , the girl said his now deceased father also was there at the same period but a different “political” section .
They found that the two men “met” and even taught each other some useful tricks.
July 14th, 2011, 1:19 pm
Tara said:
Abughassan,
My issue is: Do we really need a program for the immediate post Bashar era? The immediate government should just be a transitional one allowing vibrant political parties to go on, have a debate and come up with “a program”.
I do not know details of historical world revolutions? Did they come up with a complete program of running a nation? Is there a historical precedent of a revolution that define economic, social, and political agenda whit it was in the make?
July 14th, 2011, 1:21 pm
jad said:
Aboud,
I’m with organizing the street, the no-head and no-organization is bad for the movement, you need someone or some order to tell the mass what to do instead of letting them loos and every mistake done to be used against the whole movement, people naturally don’t like chaos and they stay away from anybody who does it.
By doing that you actually do more good to the movement you want, otherwise it’ll be easy for the powerful party to dismantle your movement and makes it into small pieces that is easy to ignore.
Abughassan,
I’m trying to give you an idea of what happened and what said, so you be aware, nothing more to my comment.
Tara
“I’d rather deal with “kill all protestors” menhebak guy than to read his writings.”
Of course, It’s much easier for you to deal with obvious black-white a bit ‘naive’ statement like yours than the sane ones! Good for you.
Dancing Shlomo
Good catch, I didn’t think of it this way, but since you mentioned it, I agree, nothing will be strange.
July 14th, 2011, 1:21 pm
5 dancing shlomos said:
in zionized america truth against israel/for palestine is much discouraged.
from ang arab:
Speaking for Palestine may cost you your academic job in the US
“A former visiting professor at North Carolina State University claims in a lawsuit that she was abruptly dropped from consideration for a permanent post after her comments she made about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Terri Ginsberg said she had been a top tier candidate for a position in the university’s film studies department until Oct. 24, 2007, when she gave an introduction to a movie called “Ticket to Jerusalem” at a film screening series on Middle Eastern topics. Ginsberg said she gave the audience background on the Palestinian filmmaker, and thanked them for attending. “By doing so, I stated, the audience was showing its support for the airing of Palestinian cultural perspectives, especially those which promote Palestinian liberation,” she wrote in a sworn statement. Superior Court Judge Shannon Joseph’s dismissed the lawsuit, but Ginsberg’s lawyers filed an appeal late last month. No hearing date before the state Court of Appeals has been scheduled yet. If the appeal succeeds, the case would go back to Superior Court, potentially for a jury trial. University spokesman Keith Nichols said the school doesn’t comment on ongoing litigation.” (esp involving israel)
July 14th, 2011, 1:28 pm
Aboud said:
@112 JAD “you need someone or some order to tell the mass what to do instead of letting them loos and every mistake done to be used against the whole movement”
Since the revolution has grown from a small protest in Dar’a, to a nationwide movement encompassing entire cities, regions, and multitudes of expatriates abroad, I think it can be safe to assume that there is some level of organization and planning behind it. And it has proven itself resilient, and far more efficient and competent than the regime.
I still don’t see what’s so scary about a transitional period. Do you mean to tell me out of 23 million Syrians, not one can be found to lead a transition? That’s just pure B-S. In an election, anyone can run, even you Jad. You could run on a platform to get the war crimes charges reduced against junior.
July 14th, 2011, 1:37 pm
5 dancing shlomos said:
before i leave for the day,
i think it is appropriate to bring israel into comments at SC
since the site is infested with israelis(esp the telaviv and american branches) and their propaganda, deceptions, lies, distortions, and their outright bullshit.
israelis dont mind, in fact, think it is their right to interfere in the affairs of syria: internal and external.
and
not just syria.
these bloodsuckers interfere in too many countries. a few: america, iraq, turkey, jordan, iran, libya, palestine.
just a few.
July 14th, 2011, 1:40 pm
jad said:
?????? ?? ?????? ????? ?????
Dear SNK
I’m not sure why the link didn’t work for you but this is the video again, go directly to the 5m37s frame for sarsour and to 10m8s frame for abou nazeer, they are funny I hope this time works 🙂
Aboud,
“I still don’t see what’s so scary about a transitional period.”
If the transitional period is planned it reduce lots of dangerous issues, if it’s not you have high possibility of chaos, from all sides, this is why many people on here are calling for a more organized and planned transition, you need to take the risk of a chaos seriously, we saw it in Iraq and Lebanon before, we can’t ignore the danger and juts be optimist that nothing will happen and life is juts perfect, it’s not.
Being realistic is a must in these times.
July 14th, 2011, 1:41 pm
daleandersen said:
Memo To: TARA
RE: “…I do not know details of historical world revolutions…”
Here is THE BOOK on historical world revolutions. Crane Brinton (Harvard Guy) wrote it in 1965. It analyzes the French, English, American and Russian revolutions. Loaded with laughs. Enjoy! >>> http://books.google.com/books/about/The_anatomy_of_revolution.html?id=5Vifp4FYRZQC
http://playwrighter.blogspot.com/2011/07/dialogue-syrian-style.html
July 14th, 2011, 1:42 pm
873 said:
Archives for history of western media’s professionalism and objectivity regarding the middle east. See ZNN at its finest from Gulf War 1991, pushing for attack on Iraq… Libya, Syria, Lebanon… No change or reform of their coverage in 20 yrs. Who will lead that transition? Wolf Blitzer AIPAC-American?
Gay Guy in Mecca:
July 14th, 2011, 1:45 pm
Amnesia said:
Nour said, “The situation in the inner circle of the regime is more complicated than what most people perceive, and I think for at least this period Bashar is needed to make necessary changes inside the regime, otherwise the smooth transition of power has no chance of succeeding.”
Little chance of going smoothly without Bashar, but we are hoping that he will change. Even if he does change, can he do it? I would say he probably has no chance of leading change, precisely because of what you said: “the inner circle of the regime is” complicated. His “loyal” followers will not show loyalty if Bashar does what he needs to do.
July 14th, 2011, 1:45 pm
daleandersen said:
Memo To: ABUGHASSAN
RE: “…this is not a widespread revolution…”
Abughassan reminds me of a (edited for insult) dude who stumbles around bumping into trees and walls and when someone asks to help, he says, “No no, thank you but I’m fine. Everything’s fine.”
Jesus man. Will you open your (edited for bad language) eyes and come up for air? 1,500 people dead, 12,000 in prison, the army on emergency alert against its own people? At least 10,000 refugees in Turkey? ( Second warning, please watch your language)
And this is the guy who’s privy to some kind of secret rumor? Jesus, he’s got no credibility. He’s a nothing, a cypher, a zero…
http://playwrighter.blogspot.com/2011/07/dialogue-syrian-style.html
July 14th, 2011, 1:57 pm
Amnesia said:
I really wish people could stop partying here and stick to rational discussions.
HS, your last few posts are ridiculous.
I don’t even need to address the “poor vegetable seller” in Tunisia or the raped women in Libya. You went too far about the boys from Daraa.
Americans and others that sympathize with Zionism often look at Palestinians in disgust. “Why do they love fighting so much?” or “Why can’t they live in peace?” or “Why doesn’t the Palestinian government just keep Israelis safe already?”.
Of course, try to explain to them that the Israelis are in full control, that the Palestinians have no rights, that generations of Palestinians have grown up in slums living on handouts, that Israelis are guilty of abuse, torture, killings, and normal Palestinians feel helpless, that the world has ignored their plight for far too long, and that Israelis have controlled the discussion and have been seen as the only honest side.
You, HS, are guilty of the same logic.
You ask why the fifteen boys were never shown publicly to corroborate their families’ stories about them, if the story is indeed true. Instead, you should be asking why the government doesn’t show contrary evidence, if the skeptics are right.
Are the Israelis or the Palestinians in power in Palestine? Is the Syrian regime in power or the opposition in Syria? Obvious.
Can we blame the Palestinians for not being organized enough to challenge injustice from the Israelis? No.
Can we blame Syrian citizens for not being organized enough to properly challenge injustice from their government? No.
Don’t talk about the children of Daraa anymore, unless you wish to demand justice for them.
July 14th, 2011, 2:03 pm
Akbar Palace said:
5 Dancing Ahmad’s: “It’s the Joos!”
since the site is infested with israelis(esp the telaviv and american branches) and their propaganda, deceptions, lies, distortions, and their outright bullshit.
5 Dancing Ahmads,
What “lies”, “deceptions” and “distortions” are you referring to? It seems to me you merely found some words in an English dictionary.
israelis dont mind, in fact, think it is their right to interfere in the affairs of syria: internal and external
Which Israelis are interfering “in the affairs of syria: internal and external”?
…these bloodsuckers interfere in too many countries
Joos have the right to vote and speak out just as much as Islamic jihadists do*!
(*except in countries frought with anti-semitism)
And if anyone is a “blood sucker”, it could be the billions the Assads have stolen from the Syrian people.
Americans and others that sympathize with Zionism often look at Palestinians in disgust.
Amnesia,
As an American, I would say “disgust” is the wrong word. It is more like “unworthy”, especially since the Palestinians have no inclination to negotiate a final settlement.
July 14th, 2011, 2:04 pm
jad said:
Aboud,
“not one can be found to lead a transition?”
There are very few Syrians that can do the transition, but it’s up to us to find them and it’s their duty to offer and introduce themselves to us.
Until now all the opposition figures I heard/read don’t have ‘IT’ those guys had nothing to offer, no vision, no plan and no solutions of any of the actual problems Syria has, calling for freedom is great but without a plan it wont solve the economy or get rid of corruption or reduce poverty or abolish radicalism or clean the environment or ..or…or..
It must be strengthen by a good plan and an attractive alternatives of what we have today.
From those couple fake opportunists people presenting themselves as leaders I can see their falseness, I can see their evil plan for Syrians and I can sense their dangerous ability to accept the destruction of Syrian society just to be in power, and one of them is a real ‘traitor’ to everything Syrian when he called for foreign intervention or destroying the economy, that is not the answer or the future Syrians are graving for, they want and deserve much better than becoming another failure nation to add to that long list.
Liking/disliking the president is not my goal at this stage, what I want to see with or without the president is a safe, independent, democratic, civil and tolerant Syria for all of Syrians.
July 14th, 2011, 2:09 pm
jad said:
Moderator
Do your job and check on Dale Anderson language instead of banning people you dislike.
July 14th, 2011, 2:11 pm
abughassan said:
the moderator may have taken a break 🙂
The best medicine for people with a filthy mouth who want attention is not to give them any,just ignore them COMPLETELY, I suggested that before but some people on this forum still bother to dignify them with a response …
Why do we have to talk to an Israeli poster or a pro Israel blogger who has clear anti Syrian views and can only hope for the destruction of Syria ?
July 14th, 2011, 2:26 pm
Amnesia said:
Akbar Palace said, “especially since the Palestinians have no inclination to negotiate a final settlement.”
Not true. They just want something closer to what the United Nations demanded for them decades ago. The Israelis hold all the cards, not the Palestinians.
July 14th, 2011, 2:31 pm
Aboud said:
Jad @ 123 “Until now all the opposition figures I heard/read don’t have ‘IT’ those guys had nothing to offer, no vision, no plan and no solutions of any of the actual problems Syria has”
Ahaaaaaaa! And where, my dear friend, did I say that I wanted someone from the opposition to lead the transition? Did I come out in favor of a particular person? In fact, I did say that someone from the current government would be appropriate. I don’t have a strong possibility in mind, nominating someone right now would be the kiss of death for them 🙂
“There are very few Syrians that can do the transition, but it’s up to us to find them and it’s their duty to offer and introduce themselves to us.”
And that is what the transitional period will allow us, a chance to get to know our representatives, based on experience, intelligence, number of babies kissed, how good they look on TV, and the hawtness of their spouses, as compared to the current situation where we have an idiot in the People’s Assembly telling Besho that the Arab World is too small for him, and he should rule the world *facepalm* Poor, poor world….
And what does it say about Syrians, so many of them aren’t even waiting for the alternatives you mentioned, before dumping Bashar? It’s like someone who just abandons his crappy car on the highway, and would rather walk back.
July 14th, 2011, 2:31 pm
N.Z. said:
Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
After 40 years of stalemate, one family rule, all Syrians deserve better. The price will not be higher than what we had experienced. This regime is neither capable, nor willing to change anything. It is precisely what Bush had said, in a Syrian context. Us or chaos. We say neither you nor chaos.
They are many capable Syrian personalities, this country was doing perfectly well before their arrival. In all of Syria, it is true the likes of this Mafia will not be found. We need change.
So enough of, we want, but, until. KHALSOUNA !!!
July 14th, 2011, 2:33 pm
Amnesia said:
We should be more polite to the moderator. As Abughassan commented, the volunteer can’t be on here 24/7.
July 14th, 2011, 2:34 pm
abughassan said:
The opposition is finally starting to look at this matter,Tara,and I am referring to having a unified leadership and an initial platform. I am eager to see the names that will be suggested,this will give us a good idea about the reach and depth of this opposition. I also need to see whether there is any attempt to talk to army chiefs and other figures in the government who can make the transition period less volatile and more predictable. Trying to fire everybody who worked under Bashar or was appointed by Bashar will backfire and can cost Syria valuable time and money,Syrians are able to see the difference between Walid Al-Mouallem,for example,and Hafez Makhlouf.
It also just occurred to me that people here are getting ahead of themselves when they choose to forget that the regime still has support and the army and security forces are largely behind it.
A political solution is the only solution..no violence.
July 14th, 2011, 2:37 pm
Akbar Palace said:
Not true. They just want something closer to what the United Nations demanded for them decades ago. The Israelis hold all the cards, not the Palestinians.
Amnesia,
With all due respect, you gave a personal opinion stating:
Americans and others that sympathize with Zionism often look at Palestinians in disgust.
Your opinion is neither “true” or “false”. I gave my opinion as an American. I’d like to believe I have a good understanding of American politics.
So in my opinion, I don’t think Americans “look at Palestinians is disgust”. I think most Americans feel bad for the Palestinians, despite their less-than-stellar leadership (Hamas and the PA).
What the UN “demanded” was nothing more specific than a “land for peace” formula, which has to be negotiated. IMHO, the Palestinians do not seem to be terribly concerned about the lack of an agreement. I don’t see the Palestinians “bending over backwards” to engage the Israelis.
July 14th, 2011, 2:46 pm
Aboud said:
Abu Ghassan @ 132 “the regime still has support and the army and security forces are largely behind it.”
*snicker*
Amazing how many of them will let slip information as an insurance policy. Many of the regime’s ground troops are not as loyal as it would like to believe. Sometimes, a security officer doesn’t actually have to defect to be a defector, if you know what I mean.
What a cruel world, one never knows anymore whom one can trust…..
July 14th, 2011, 2:48 pm
Amnesia said:
Abu Ghassan,
“A political solution is the only solution..no violence.”
Those from the regime that can be considered thugs do not worship Bashar. They only wish for everyone else to worship him. If they think that Bashar is going against them, for whatever reason, they will turn against Bashar.
A “political solution” will not allow us to avoid violence. That is wishful thinking. The main question we should be asking is how to best subdue the perpetrators of violence.
I hope I’m wrong, but Bashar isn’t capable of doing this.
Whoever leads the transition will need the support of the army to subdue unrest from those with the former regime.
July 14th, 2011, 2:54 pm
abughassan said:
for Syria to move forward,Syrians need to learn to tolerate opposing opinions.Needless to say,this regime has nothing to do with “tolerating other opinions”. A political solution is still the way to go to avoid bloodshed and chaos,but the rule of law must prevail,corruption must stop, and those angry youth need to find work and discover hope..
As you can see,it is not as easy as “remove Bashar and then we will live happily ever after” !!
The loyalty of the army and security forces has limits,this is why Bashar decided to take a deep breath and listen more to those who are nervous about frequent army engagements,but how would you handle an attack on the army that killed 9 (Banyas) or an attack on security forces that killed more than 100 (Al-Jisr)?
After Bashar,who wants to be president of Syria? a nation with too many leaders and few average citizens !!
July 14th, 2011, 3:12 pm
Syria no kandahar said:
Tara
The only person who advocates massive killing for non-holly syrians is the spiritual advisor of your revolution Alaaroor,no body that is on this site advocates killing of any protestor,stop making up stuff,we have enough mess as it is .even if some one here is stupid to advocates that,no one listens to them,versus your revolution god father ???? Hama becomes a city of gohsts when his program is on,when his program is of it returns to the normal situation,walking dead people with beards,no mostache and ?????? .
Your problem is you know all this by now,but you are acting like you don’t know it,you are worse menhabak than Bashar menhabak,you and Aboud and NZ…are Aroor menhabak …red duck menhabak…hetler menhabak…I feel sorry for you.if those other Aroor menhabak are going for ther ultimate goal??? ??? ?????…what is your goal?
July 14th, 2011, 3:17 pm
Amnesia said:
Dear Akbar Palace,
I am Syrian, and American.
We are stating our opinions. I did not mean to paint all Americans as unsympathetic to Palestinians. Many are. Over the decades, horrific accounts of atrocities have come out of Palestine, by Israeli soldiers who are supposed to be “civilized”. The Palestinians have grown up without rights, and this has rarely been talked about by the US media. It has been largely ignored. It is understandable that a majority of Americans do not know the history.
The West Bank is about 22% of what Israel controls (not including the Golan Heights, which they have settled in). Over the years, the Israelis have claimed much of even that as their own. Sharon, as head of the Israeli housing authority in the late 80s systematically discriminated against Palestinians landowners in the West Bank, especially around Jerusalem. They would apply for building permits and be denied. Forced to sell unusable land to waiting Israelis that easily obtain permission to build.
The Israelis are very happy that no peace was made long ago. They wouldn’t have had it any other way, as they can now say to the world “Our people live on this land, so we will not negotiate its return.”
Read Noam Chomsky, one of the first Zionists who grew to hate what Zionism had become. See if you can argue with his logic, and try not to be turned off by his negative views of what he sees as “American imperialism”. His arguments concerning Palestinians are very rational.
Let’s get back to talking about Syria now. I didn’t mean to divert the discussion.
July 14th, 2011, 3:23 pm
Mango said:
????? ??? ???????? ????? ??????? ???? ??? ????? ??? ?????? ?? ??????? ? ????? ??????? ???????? ???? ???? !? ???? ?????? ?????? ???????? ?? ????? !
July 14th, 2011, 3:24 pm
Badr said:
Abu Ghassan #77,
Who are your sources, high ranking officials in the know?
WD #92,
Yours is not a prediction of what would happen by July 2012. If you’d like to make one, then choose either extraordinary development or Bashar still in charge leading the transition.
Aboud,
While not taking anything away from the merit of Tunisia revolt, have a look at this link.
July 14th, 2011, 3:36 pm
Amnesia said:
Abu Ghassan,
You didn’t respond to my last message, so I’ll elaborate a little. As time goes on, especially with new freedoms, many truths will surface incriminating the current regime figures. Forgiveness will be necessary in many cases, but we cannot expect Syrians to forgive everyone. What do you think current figures of power will do if they are charged with crimes, or if they think they will be? Do you think they will give a (darn) about peace?
Again, the question: How can we best make sure that future perpetrators of violence don’t make a mess of a new Syria?
Part of the answer is of course the army, which will need to be carefully restructured, retrained, and kept loyal to country.
July 14th, 2011, 3:43 pm
Tara said:
Kandahar,
Hi. Have I ever told you that I was scared of you when I first started here? I was very very sure that you were a sinister Mukhabarat. But that did not last long… I had enough brain power to realize how genuine and sincere you are towards Syria and I stopped demonizing you. And sure enough I felt pretty friendly about you and I now try not to miss any of your posts.
You may think I am not genuine and I leave it up to your judgement.
I can not answer your question because I simply do not believe that you believe that I consider Aroor to be the spiritual leader of my revolution. I am in it because I genuinely respect the life and dignity of others. I was never hurt by the regime. Never. My family is or was a political family and I lived a “comfortable life in Syria” But I witnessed the regime atrocities and I just can not help not to feel the pain of others. It is part of my psych.
And in regard to the seven virgins awaiting the martyrs, I believe the verse can carry different interpretation other than the literal meaning.
July 14th, 2011, 3:50 pm
Akbar Palaces said:
Opinions don’t Kill, People Do
Amnesia,
Syrian-American. Check. Thanks for you opinion.
Let’s get back to talking about Syria now. I didn’t mean to divert the discussion.
It looks like you want to get off the subject, so I won’t respond to your post about Zionism, which is just Israeli nationalism. OK, I will sit on the sidelines until something catches my eye, like “bloodsuckers”, “parasites”, how the majority of Syrians are pro-Assad, and the like;)
Cheers,
AP
July 14th, 2011, 3:57 pm
Nour said:
Amnesia 121:
I agree with your last sentence. Many “loyalists” will not be completely loyal to all of Bashar’s decisions. This is why I was saying that things are more complicated than we’d like to think. We need a peaceful transition that does not allow Syria to descend into chaos. It is not easy to accomplish, but there are scenarios better than others. Right now, in my opinion, the best way forward is for Bashar to lead this change. Obviously if he’s not serious, the future will look much more bleak. I agree with most people here that this regime is taking its last gasps of breath, meaning that there is going to be a change of the entire system. The question is how do we want to see this change. A sudden collapse of the regime will create a vacuum that may lead us to an Iraq-like scenario, which is why I have opposed this option from the beginning.
We are hedging our bets right now on Bashar, not because we believe there are no other qualified Syrians to lead Syria, but because he is the person best situated to make a smooth transition, due to the very nature of the regime. We cannot simply ask for a transitional government out of the blue, because we are forgetting two very important factors: the army and the security. Bashar retains loyalty from a large segment of both apparatuses and to remove him now would create a major risk that I’m not sure is worth taking. I strongly believe that the decision to bring about this change has been made by Bashar and is final. Hopefully the next few days will tell us a lot more.
July 14th, 2011, 4:00 pm
HS said:
About Bassam al Kadi
http://www.bassam-alkadi.com/
First I remember that one commentator here asked why the leader of an organization for the protection of women was a man .
I thought then that I just found in this commentator a perfect leader to start an organization for the protection of monkeys.
Second , when I looked at Bassam’s site ( and put the link here ), I found him very truthful specially in his report on the thugs barricading the highway from DAMASCUS to ALEPPO.
When he reported very lively ( in Arabic ) his encounters with the Main Stream Media ( free press ) trying to get some juicy fake reports from him ,
I found him very commendable ; many professionals have not his ethics.
Altogether , an interesting honest Syrian .
July 14th, 2011, 4:03 pm
jad said:
What’s wrong with the guys on the street today? Are they gone mad or begging for a bloody Friday?
??? ?????? ?? ???????? ????????? ?? ??????? ???????? ???? ???????? ??????? ??????? ?? ???? ????? 14-7-2011? ??? ??? ??????? ???????? ?”??????” ??????? ??????
??? ????? ??? ?????? ???? ??????? ??????? ???????? ???????? ???????? “????????? ??????????? ????? ????????”? ?????? ?????? ?????????? ?????? ??????? ?????? ?????? ???????? ???????.
????? ?????? ??????? ???? ????? ???????? ??????? ?????? ????? ??? ?? ????? ??? ????? ???? ????????? ????? ???? ??? ??? ?????? ??? ????? ?? ????? ??? ????? ???? ?? ????? ????? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???????? ??? ???? ???????? ??????.
??? ?????? ???????? ??? ??? ???? ??? ?????? ?????? ????? ?????? ???????? ????? ??? ??????? ?? ???? ?????? ????????
???? ???? ???? ?? ??????? ?? ?????? ??????? ?? ???? ????? ??? ??????? ?????? ?? ??????? ?????? ??”???? ????”
???????? ??? ???? ???? ??????? ?? ????
http://youtu.be/g6Ujyw96ssE
July 14th, 2011, 4:17 pm
atassi said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkfUlA-3ask
When will this Assad stop the killing..
This Wicked Bashar and his father soul being cursed
July 14th, 2011, 4:17 pm
jad said:
?????? ?????????? 14-7-2011
http://youtu.be/9jU_zpsXJ9c
July 14th, 2011, 4:23 pm
Amnesia said:
“It looks like you want to get off the subject, so I won’t respond to your post about Zionism, which is just Israeli nationalism.”
Just saying, that’s not what it used to be. You can read about it if you want to. This forum is not the place for it.
Nour said, “I strongly believe that the decision to bring about this change has been made by Bashar and is final.”
The devil is in the details.
“Hopefully the next few days will tell us a lot more.”
I do hope so Nour.
July 14th, 2011, 4:40 pm
Amnesia said:
All,
Will major security operations take place tonight? With the recent arrests of intellectuals and artists, will their plight resonate and cause larger demonstrations tomorrow?
We shall see.
July 14th, 2011, 4:45 pm
Aboud said:
Shabiha morale aint what it used to be
July 14th, 2011, 4:59 pm
N.Z. said:
“will their plight resonate and cause larger demonstration tomorrow?”
Nabil Maleh, May Skaf, Nidal Hasen, Rima Fleihan, Sacha Ayoub, and many others are detained, they are Christian, Druze, Alawi….
The regime is all for reform, but those intellectuals and artists are Salafis, if you do not believe me ask the regime.
Muhammad Aref Kayali, is a man of substance, he was on Aljazeera today,???? ?????, he spoke volume about the corrupt Assad family. One, of many legitimate and capable Syrians, a candidate in the transitional period.
July 14th, 2011, 5:13 pm
louai said:
Aroor is saying on Wisal TV now that protestors should remove the road barackades from the main streets in Hama and all Syria (for the protestors safety), just watch tomorrow that they will obey him just to prove to you all that he is the main leader to this revolution.
He also said he wants to talk to the new governor of Hama ??!!!
July 14th, 2011, 5:18 pm
Aboud said:
louai @153 I’ve never watched a single minute of this “Aroor”. I’m guessing a considerable number of his viewership are menhebaks just waiting to see what he’ll say next :p
July 14th, 2011, 5:30 pm
N.Z. said:
The countdown had just begun. Will tell you later, my sources have just told me.
Today’s summary, many dead and wounded in Homs, Idlib, Deir el Zour, hundreds apprehended, 40 only yesterday. This is the new reform. A reform we can all believe in.
July 14th, 2011, 5:35 pm
Akbar Palace said:
Ignoring Syria NewZ
The Palestinians have grown up without rights, and this has rarely been talked about by the US media. It has been largely ignored. It is understandable that a majority of Americans do not know the history.
Amnesia,
Staying on the Syria thread, what do you think has “been talked about by the US media” more or less, Palestinian rights or Syrian rights?
Anyway, another 8 syrian “terrorists” have been killed today. I suppose that makes Syria a safer place.
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/07/14/8-killed-in-past-day-syrian-activists-say/?test=latestnews
July 14th, 2011, 5:40 pm
N.Z. said:
????? ??????? ????? ???????? ?????? ????? ??? ?????
http://t.co/2CRv4kk
July 14th, 2011, 5:48 pm
louai said:
Aboud
@151 Those are not shabbiha , they are soldiers in uniform from our army !
@154 i should keep an eye on him , plus i find him funny 🙂
July 14th, 2011, 5:50 pm
N.Z. said:
???? ????? ?????? ????? ????? ??? ????????? ??? ??? ?????? ?????? ????????? ??????? ?? ?????? ???? ?????? ???? ??????? ??????? ?? ?????? ???? ?????? ????????.
????? ????? ???????? ????????? ??? ?????? ??? ?? ????? ????? ??????? ?????????? “????? ????? ?? ??? ????? ????? ??? ?????? ?? ????? ????? ??????”? ?????? “??? ?????? ?? ???? ?? ????? ????? ??? ??? ???? ???? ?????? ?????? ?? ????? ????? ?? ??? ?????? ???? ?????????? ????? ????? ????? ?? ?? ??? ???”.
????? ?? ?????? ???? ?? ???? ??? ?????? ?????? ?? ??????? ???????? ?????? ?????? ????? ???? ???????? ??????? ?????? ?????? ?? ?????? ????? ?????? ?????? ???? ???? ???????.
???? ??? ????? ??? ??????? ???? ?????? ?????? ???? ????? ??? ????? ??????? ????????? ????? ??????? , ????? ????? ???? ?? ??????? ??????? ?????? ?????????? ? ???? ????? ????? ?????? ??? ??????? ??????? ?? ?????? ?? ??? ??????
Dear All:
The time has come for me to step down from my current position and move on. I have recently accepted an exciting job offer in the private sector and will be moving to Maryland. I will leave you all in the capable hands of my colleague, Ms. Roua Sharbaji, the Embassy’s Press Attaché. You can reach her at [email protected] or at her office, 202-232-6313 ext 129.
As many of you have pointed out, I have been conspicuously silent since the beginning of the events in Syria, and at times, even unresponsive. For the latter, I apologize.
I leave my position during the most difficult, yet promising of times in Syria’s modern history. I have been pained by every drop of Syrian blood lost. Still, I am certain of, and comforted by, the fact that Syria will emerge from this crisis more democratic, unified, freer, and stronger than ever.
Please do keep in touch. You can always reach me at my personal e-mail [email protected], or find me on Facebook. Thank you for an indelible experience; it has truly been an honor to work in this capacity with you all.
Sincerely,
Ahmed Salkini
July 14th, 2011, 5:59 pm
Aboud said:
@158 Look closely, their khaki uniforms are much lighter than the regular army uniforms. Just because they were given helmets doesn’t make them army. I can’t believe for a moment that a) the Syrian army would be used in this way, wandering about the street intimidating people b) they would turn tail like that. Soldiers don’t do that.
Syria unrest: Soldiers ‘ordered to fire on civilians’
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-14162072
July 14th, 2011, 6:00 pm
HS said:
How nicely well known activists are talking about people on Twitter
https://joshualandis.com/blog/?p=10022
After you said :
I have always admired Mohja Kahf’s poetry and outspoken courage. She is a founding member of the National Initiative for Change. !!!
Dr. Kahf is a faculty member in the University of Arkansas’s The King Fahd Center for Middle East & Islamic Studies.
They are still talking about you on Twitter on June 27th ::
ProfKahf Mohja Kahf
Jan 26,public lecture:Josh Landis said : #Syria will never revolt , people like Assad.
I said : They WILL, regime down in 2.5yrs.
NajibGhadbian said : Sooner
M. Yaser Tabbara @abulyas
@ProfKahf Landis should be exposed for fraud pseudo academic that he is.
ProfKahf Mohja Kahf
@AmericanSyrians @abulyas Not to do with her wife family being Alawite;
many opposition members are;
to do with being pro-regimist #Syria
July 14th, 2011, 6:03 pm
Amnesia said:
Palace, I don’t understand your question.
N.Z. said, “Nabil Maleh, May Skaf, Nidal Hasen, Rima Fleihan, Sacha Ayoub, and many others are detained, they are Christian, Druze, Alawi….
The regime is all for reform, but those intellectuals and artists are Salafis, if you do not believe me ask the regime.”
I asked, but the regime hasn’t yet commented on whether they are Salafi or not. Let’s wait for Assad’s answer in his next speech.
July 14th, 2011, 6:05 pm
Amnesia said:
N.Z., can you do something about the email address you posted. Spambots love finding email addresses.
July 14th, 2011, 6:08 pm
N.Z. said:
Watch aljazeera Arabic, Muhammad Aref Kayali
July 14th, 2011, 6:16 pm
Aboud said:
The regime surrounds Bab Esba3 and Khaldia, and the reaction of Homsis is to come out and demonstrate in the upper class Mal3ab Al Baladi neighborhood
Not only has junior not woken up and smelt the coffee, he doesn’t even know which side of the bed his cup is on.
HS @ 161 “Jan 26,public lecture:Josh Landis said : #Syria will never revolt , people like Assad.”
Heck, back in January that was a fair assessment to make. He worked long and hard at losing the Syrian people’s trust and affection, and by Gawd he managed to do it.
July 14th, 2011, 6:21 pm
atassi said:
http://nowlebanon.com/BlogDetails.aspx?TID=1663&FID=6
Baath’s thugs in Lebanon
July 14th, 2011, 6:25 pm
why-discuss said:
OTW, Abboud
The new Nostradamus for Syria : the ICG report…
July 14th, 2011, 6:56 pm
Abughassan said:
I listened to mr Kiali today,the guy seems sincere and had a good message but he mis-spoke when he asked for Syrians to unite their guns and swords against the regime. I do not believe he was advocating violence because he later asked the demonstrators not to kill. Correct me if I was wrong.
If the uprising leaders planned on attracting seculars,including alawis who are not happy with the regime, they have not done a good job especially when:
1.religious ,and at times sectarian,slogans are often used
2.mosques are still the primary launching pad for their demos
3.a number of non Sunni families were forced out of their homes in Daraa and Hama
4.some alawi civilians and retired army officers were killed by anti regime thugs simply because they were alawi
5.armed thugs fired on the army and killed officers in a number of cases
6.they showed that a lot of them are heavily influenced by militant sheikhs
I will not give the uprising a free pass when I think they “sinned” and the same will be true for the regime who still carries most of the blame
July 14th, 2011, 6:58 pm
why-discuss said:
Abboud
You are strangely silent when I ask you names of potential transition leaders to replace Bashar al Assad. You said they are plenty. Do I understand you could find none? or they still want to remain secret?
July 14th, 2011, 7:02 pm
Tara said:
Atassi
The link is very disturbing, Is the thug Syrian? His accent is Lebanese.
Why does the Ba’ath still have any power in Lebanon?
Are they still under Syrian mental occupation?
July 14th, 2011, 7:06 pm
jad said:
Qatana today:
?????? ?? ???? ??????? ?? ????
http://youtu.be/lu6qi3-tbRw
July 14th, 2011, 7:21 pm
Aboud said:
@169 Yes Why-Discuss, in the few hours since you last mentioned it, my extensive research could find nobody more worthy to lead Syria through a transitional period than the eye-doctor who inherited the presidency and in four months turned his government into an international pariah *rolls eyes*
If junior was smart, he’d call elections this month. If he’s as popular as he thinks he is, he should have no trouble in winning a free and fair vote. But being “smart” is the one thing he cannot be accused of.
@168 “1.religious ,and at times sectarian,slogans are often used”
This claim has been branded about alot. I’d like to see proof that such slogans were used.
“2.mosques are still the primary launching pad for their demos”
Really Abughassan? Then kindly suggest some place else where people can legitimately gather. Not even football games are held in Homs anymore for fear they might turn into an anti-regime rally.
Some people here keep dropping hints that junior is going to come down from Mount Sinai with the Ten Commandants. Do you know what we have been hearing in half of Homs all day long? KABOM! BOOM! RATATATATATATATATTAT. So kindly excuse me if I don’t give a rat’s a** (sorry Hamster) about any impending speech by this illegitimate murdering Iranian-boot-licking-two-faced weakling. Armed suppression didn’t work in the past, and it doesn’t stand a snowball’s chance in the Tadmur desert tomorrow.
July 14th, 2011, 7:29 pm
Abughassan said:
I can not mention any names ,including mine,or sources until the time is right,guys. The Syrian army is full of good officers,including alawis,and should not be packaged in the same basket with security forces. One poster was close to the truth when he mentioned that most branches of the army had nothing to do with the business of killing demonstrators,that is why I was crystal clear from the first 2 weeks of this uprising that the IDF and those who attacked the army are two faces of the same coin. Bashar was “advised” by high ranking officers not to push the army too much,but the opposition must do the same,if they fire on Syrian soldiers or try to terrorize civilians or destroy public properties on a large scale,the army has to respond and most Syrians will support that response. No army,loyal to the regime or not,will tolerate establishing mini states that raise the risk of dividing the country or igniting a civil war. This regime as we know it is in intensive care and the prognosis is poor,I am glad that Nour is on the same page here.
I will support the immediate removal of Bashar only if the army signs on this dramatic move,otherwise,I will NOT.Syria still needs the army and some of you guys need to weigh the consequences of your incitement against the only institution that can keep Syria in one piece. As for my vision about future trials and punishment of those who committed atrocities,here is my humble opinion:
1. I am against capital punishment for head of states
2. I am against harsh punishment against low-ranking officers who in most cases have no choice but to execute orders,however,those who acted on their own must be sent to courts.
3. Exile is an option for some if that can spare Syria bloodshed and unrest
4. Trials in many cases must be public
5. Big heads of corruption and oppression should be tried and should not be allowed to flee the country with their money.unfortunately,some fleeing is already happening.
I talked too much,my Syrian tea is getting cold 🙂
July 14th, 2011, 7:30 pm
louai said:
Aboud @160 ,151
They look like soldiers they dress like soldiers but they don’t have weapons maybe that’s why you thought they are Shabbiha ! Even the person who is taking the video is saying at second 30 ,’ look 3asaker (soldiers)’
this video is another profe that the security forceses has strick orders not to shoot at unarmed protestors even when shabbiha/ soldiers are outnumbered and chased by angry crowds throwing stones .
July 14th, 2011, 7:32 pm
Aboud said:
@174 “this video is another profe that the security forceses has strick orders not to shoot at unarmed protestors even when shabbiha/ soldiers are outnumbered and chased by angry crowds throwing stones .”
*cries in frustration and holds head in hands*
Louai….then please tell me…WHAT ARE THEY DOING THERE? Unarmed, and with orders to run away at the first sign of a confrontation? Who was the idiot who sent them there? Man, I can only imagine the strange orders they must have gotten;
“OK shabab, just stand around in a group looking mean, throw the occasional rock, and when they rush you, run away as fast as you can.” In the history of confrontations, was ever an order like that given to an army?
Of course not, but it is consistent with the behavior of undisciplined shabiha scum who didn’t have the slightest clue what they were going to do that day, but went out anyway.
And by the way, there are some families in Dayr el Zour tonight who will take exception to your interpretation of junior’s “strict orders”
July 14th, 2011, 7:43 pm
Abughassan said:
Israel is at it again as if we need more troubles in the middle east. This time,Israel is back to its historical roots: stealing. This time they are about to put their hands on natural gas fields in the sea violating international law and taking advantage of :
1. The unrest in Lebanon and the whole region
2. Active support or evil silence of super powers
3. An impotent UN SG who can not be cured even with a triple dose of Viagra
Hizbullah and the Lebanese government considers this move as an act of occupation and outright theft.
July 14th, 2011, 7:49 pm
Abughassan said:
???????? ??? ?? ??????. ?? ???? ???? ??? ????????
??? ????? ??????? ????. ?? ???? ???? ??? ?? ????
July 14th, 2011, 8:02 pm
Tara said:
I celebrated my baby birthday today with a cake and very few candles. As I was looking at her gorgeous face, trying to feel how much love I have for her, i suddenly remembered the Mnhebaks and that made me pause… I suddenly decided that I do not love her as much as Menhebaks love their guy. And I just can not possibly understand this.
How can menhebak becomes so intense emotion that logic gets suspended? Honestly, I have to yet experience such an intense emotion toward anything or anybody. They say great minds think alike but the saying does not hold true in this case . It would’ve been easier to brand all genuine menhebaks as “retarded”, feel happy about the explanation and go on. But this does not appear to be the case. I wish I have a background in psychology to understand the mechanisms behind it. For us the genuine menheabaks and mamenhebaks to judge the same person as smart, experienced, courageous, and charismatic as opposed to really stupid, inexperienced, coward, and very unattractive is pretty disturbing.
As I see Bashar approval (whether passive or active) of torturing children as a cowardly act, some one else of also great mind sees it as courage. As I see Bashar stupidity in not realizing that his people wants freedom and dignity when he insists that he is in touch with his people, someone else of also great mind sees it as intelligence. As I see the goofy giggles during the first unhistoric speech as a blatant lack of experience ( as he could have pretended some sorrow) , someone else of also great mind sees it as charisma and it goes on and on and on.
I am all for freedom of speech, expression, emotion, and what have you.. But I would really like to understand. Can any one help?
July 14th, 2011, 8:08 pm
Tara said:
Abughassan, @ 173
I agree on items 1-5. You summed it up nicely.
July 14th, 2011, 8:16 pm
Aboud said:
Tara @179 “How can menhebak becomes so intense emotion that logic gets suspended? ”
Actually it’s not that much of a mystery. They are all retards. Haha, kidding.
I once read that humans make decisions emotionally, and then use logic to justify their emotional decisions. Change is hard. Change is scary. Most people would love to live their lives in their comfort zone.
Someone once said that people don’t change when you show them a better way, people change when you show them it’s the *only* way.
The menhebak crowd cling tightly and fiercely to world and system they have know their whole lives. They would prefer the predictability of a presidency passed from father to son for the next hundred years. They recoil at the horrors of not knowing who the new president will be in 4 or 5 years time. To them, that’s as foolhardy as sailing into uncharted waters, not knowing where the next land mass is (but it’s how America was discovered).
People and societies only grow when they step outside their secure, comfort zones. To most Syrians, that comfortable area kept shrinking every year, until nowhere they stood could be considered safe. To them, throwing off the old system was not a choice, it was a necessity. They didn’t see change as the better way, they saw it as the only way.
Which is why people here keep nitpicking about who exactly is worthy enough to replace junior. They think the country can still afford to keep junior and his bunch, that Syria still has a choice.
We don’t. We do not have the luxury anymore of pioneering the world’s first hereditary presidency. Good old fashioned democracy will have to suffice for now.
July 14th, 2011, 8:23 pm
Abughassan said:
Happy Birthday to your little princess,Tara.
I know some “?????” people but I prefer to call them Asad supporters
People who support Bashar do not constitute a homogenous crowd,and some are decent people who mean well and disagree with the anti Bashar crowd. I also met educated and decent MB supporters. In my personal opinion,both are wrong.
Each side has few,or many,evil individuals who can only thrive in an environment of conflict and division. Most Syrians,to my knowledge,are not in this category.
The solution is a free and democratic system where leaders are elected and held accountable,then they have to surrender their positions to new faces that are also elected.
I refused to dehumanize those that I disagree with because I prefer to humanize my fellow Syrians. this regime is not good for Syria and so is the islamists,I detest and oppose both.
July 14th, 2011, 8:25 pm
Aboud said:
The people of Hama, protecting the Police Residence in the city;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2ntE5iNvVI&feature=player_embedded
Look at that, not a single scratch on the place.
July 14th, 2011, 8:30 pm
Akbar Palace said:
Perceptions of the US Media
Palace, I don’t understand your question.
Amnesia,
Sorry, I didn’t word the question well. I’ll try again.
You stated an opinion:
The Palestinians have grown up without rights, and this has rarely been talked about by the US media. It has been largely ignored. It is understandable that a majority of Americans do not know the history.
My questions (reworded):
Amnesia,
Do the Palestinians have MORE or LESS rights than the average Syrian?
In other words, if I were to replace “Palestinians” in your first sentence to “Syrians”, would it be accurate for me to say:
The SYRIANS have grown up without rights, and this has rarely been talked about by the US media.?
July 14th, 2011, 8:32 pm
why-discuss said:
Abughassan
If there are such good officers in the army and they do not want Bashar Al Assad as their leader because “he lost his legitimacy” what are they waiting for to make a military coup?
Wasn’t the army present and active in Jisr Al Shourough? Weren’t they involved in the war against the “foreign terrorists” or the “peaceful protesters” there? Weren’t they watching the border with Turkey?
Why didn’t these “smart officers” did not defect if they disagree? cowardice? loyalty? In both cases they don’t seem to be reliable people to take over the country
My opinion is that the army is in full support of the government actions to prevent anarchy and civil war, even more after the US interference that has humiliated and angered the army as well as the Syrian people.
It is wishful thinking to try to destroy any of the element of the structure without destroying all
Bashar Al Assad= Army
Deal or live with that…
July 14th, 2011, 8:45 pm
Tara said:
Abbud@181
Outstanding!
By the way, Syria has received a silent wish today for freedom from a very pretty little girl who did not know initially what to wish for.
I think I am brainwashing my girl.
Let’s see if someone was listening.
July 14th, 2011, 8:53 pm
Abughassan said:
I have talked to good army officers who support Bashar,I do not label people as good or bad based on their beliefs,I am focused on their actions. I was clear in my support of the army efforts to restore security and order and I still do. My support for the army is not negotiable. Detections do not serve a good purpose,they only deepen division especially when done through YouTube and used for political purposes,please refer to my comments on the subject especially when an officer provided what I called “an assassination list” of selected officers who he alleged had committed illegal acts.
Please be factual and fair,this is not the time to distort or manipulate.
July 14th, 2011, 9:03 pm
Darryl said:
184. AKBAR PALACE
Ok, so Syrians have no more rights than Palestinians. Now, why does a poor shmook from Colombia who converted to Judaism arrives in Israel gets a house and land package from a Palestinian who was kicked out from the land that his family has been farming since “Adam was a boy”?
July 14th, 2011, 9:15 pm
why-discuss said:
Abughassan
I don’t doubt there are good officers, I am just wondering how do you explain their relentless loyalty to Bashar al Assad after witnessing alleged “shoot to kill” and “massacres”? What is keeping them passive?
Aren’t they becoming accomplice?
July 14th, 2011, 9:42 pm
Akbar Palace said:
Darryl,
I didn’t want to veer off the Syrian topic, but since you brought it up…
Firstly, Palestinians have MORE rights than Syrians.
Arab-Israelis have all the freedoms as Jewish Israelis: freedom of speech, the right to vote, freedom of movement, the right to assemble, freedom of religion, etc.
I know of no “poor shmook” who got “a house and land package from a Palestinian who was kicked out from the land his family has been farming since ‘Adam was a boy’ “.
But if you k now of someone who got this “package” after he converted, please provide a link….
July 14th, 2011, 9:52 pm
why-discuss said:
Muslim Brotherhood blossoms in Arab Spring
Agence France-Presse
Published: Thursday, July 14, 2011
http://www2.canada.com/topics/news/world/story.html?id=5102131
BAGHDAD – Hailed as the dawn of democracy in the Middle East, the Arab Spring has boosted the Muslim Brotherhood, which has emerged as the major political force in most countries swept by the upheaval.
And while they stand a good chance of winning elections due to feeble competition, notably in Egypt and Tunisia, the Brotherhood are expected to seek power-sharing deals, at least initially.
Though the Muslim Brotherhood was not at centre stage during the protest movements, it is now an important part of the political spectrum in Egypt, Tunisia, Libya and elsewhere,” said Francois Burgat, an expert on Islamic politics.
“It is not inconceivable that they will actually win the majority. However, both in Tunisia and Egypt, they do not currently intend to present official candidates for the presidency of the republic,” said Burgat, author of “Islam in the era of al-Qaida.”….
July 14th, 2011, 9:52 pm
Abughassan said:
Stories about the army shooting on unarmed civilians,like many other stories, are hard to verify. Violence brings violence. Regardless of where the truth is,the Syrian army is a red line that no Syrian should cross. There will be time to punish officers who violated the law, this time is not now. If the army falls and those soldiers go home with their weapons and join the fight ,we all lose. I will say this again: watch the army.
July 14th, 2011, 9:53 pm
Amnesia said:
Dear Palace,
“Do the Palestinians have MORE or LESS rights than the average Syrian?”
On average? Much less.
July 14th, 2011, 9:58 pm
Norman said:
WD,
It is simple, He is liked by the people and the army,
Erdogan was asked to the reason that he was not forceful with president Assad, he said , I saw what the people did in Damascus when i was with him in his car . he walked out of the car and i saw how the people hugged him and were happy to see him.
July 14th, 2011, 10:00 pm
873 said:
100. 5 dancing shlomos said:
“the mood of the people in syria is toxic against the zionized west’s interference and its waging of war against their govt and them.”
How could it not be? What do they contribute but chaos, plunder and destruction? I hope to God we dont open the newspaper in 6 months to see a similiar story on Syrian children. This is very tragic. It is true legacy of the west. From Palestine, to Lebanon, Libya- all over the region they are deliberately creating an entire generation of traumatized youth whose trauma may later preclude them from constructing a society or defending themselves. As we know, only Holocaust survivor pain is worth being remunerated or recognized.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2014236/Libya-Children-young-7-trained-fight-Gaddafi.html
July 14th, 2011, 10:00 pm
why-discuss said:
Abughassan
You are not answering my question.
Is the army fully supporting or not the actions of the government? As many of these actions are qualified as “criminal” , how do you explain the army support them?
Aren’t they accomplice to these ‘crimes’?
July 14th, 2011, 10:00 pm
AIG said:
http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/israeli-experts-demise-of-syria-regime-is-only-a-matter-of-time-1.373284
Israeli experts: Demise of Syria regime is only a matter of time
Despite using considerable force, killing 1,500 civilians, demonstrations intensify; Alawite minority’s days in power numbered, say analysts.
By Amos Harel
Tags: Syria Bashar Assad Arab Spring
Israeli defense officials said in a recent analysis it’s just a matter of time before Syrian President Bashar Assad’s regime falls. This line echoes comments by Defense Minister Ehud Barak, who last month told Haaretz he thought Assad’s regime would fall within several months.
Over the past three months, more than 2,000 soldiers unwilling to put down the anti-regime protests throughout the country have deserted the Syrian army, which has been showing major signs of fatigue.
Hundreds of thousands of demonstrators are thought to have taken part in protests last week in Hama, where Assad’s father and predecessor Hafez Assad slaughtered tens of thousands of members of the Muslim Brotherhood in 1982.
Last week, the security forces in Hama were ordered not to confront the protesters, which simply increased the demonstrators’ audacity.
Protests have also increased recently in the suburbs of Damascus, though the regime has managed to head off demonstrations in the center of the capital. Israeli defense analysts stress the increase in the demonstrations’ size and the protesters’ greater willingness to risk their lives.
Demonstrations last weekend were among the largest since the protests broke out in late January.
The Syrian regime has killed more than 1,500 civilians, human rights groups say, and about 12,000 people have been arrested. Nonetheless, it appears the regime’s opponents have not managed to create a unified leadership.
Assad has tried to soften the opposition via gestures such as legal and economic reforms and the granting of Syrian ID cards to members of the Kurdish minority. He has also increased subsidies on basic foodstuffs.
One extraordinary step for his Alawite regime, which is largely secular, has been to allow female students at universities to wear veils.
For the time being, the Alawite community is supporting Assad, for whom they do not see a replacement within the community.
The protests could lead to a more direct confrontation between the Sunni Muslim majority and the Alawite minority, and the disintegration of the army.
July 14th, 2011, 10:04 pm
Tara said:
Why-discuss,
I will answer if you don ‘t mind. The army officers who supported shoot to kill and massacres against civilians have a built in loyalty similar to the shabbihas and similar to army officers who committed Hama I.
July 14th, 2011, 10:04 pm
Darryl said:
Akbar Palace, check the press TV documentary section on the internet. From memory, it was a multi-series documentary showing a number of south american families not just one off case. You will be quite aware of all the lost tribe members from India, Thailand and other south east asians who having been settling on Palestinian land.
July 14th, 2011, 10:06 pm
Syria no kandahar said:
15 Turkish soldiers died in dyarbaker,could this be a revenge..is the PKK let more mobile in Syria and across the borders…if the Ottomans support MB terrorists,would they blame others for supporting PKK? They are drinking the poison they have been feeding Syria for the last 4 months…and befor that for 500years.
When Assad gave his first prisoners release,Turkey asked for 3Pkk prisoners,and they were handed to her.if Turkey expects that by toppling Assad the Kurdish issue is not going to explode,they probably don’t know the Kurds.Turkey is going to creat another Kurdistan in Syria,and it will creat it’s own grave.Syrian Kurds are the most aggressive,alot of PKK fighters are from kamishli.
July 14th, 2011, 10:10 pm
Norman said:
The civilians who died were not shot without provocation , the were shot because they attacked the security services and destroyed public buildings, to think that the army went on a shooting spree is unrealistic and if true, the casualties would have been many more .
July 14th, 2011, 10:30 pm
why-discuss said:
Tara
My question is for Abughassan’s to clarify his view on #192 and his trust in the army.
Thanks
July 14th, 2011, 10:40 pm
Abughassan said:
The Syrian army is still loyal to Bashar but this loyalty is not unlimited. Orders,if they ever come,to kill scores of unarmed civilians will probably not get executed this time around and I do not believe we will get to that point. As for passing a judgement ,on an army with hundred of thousand of soldiers ,on whether the army as a whole is guilty because of the alleged actions of few,the answer is an absolue no. I already gave my opinion on how I think future legal actions against syrians who committed crimes should be conducted. Most branches of the army did not fire a single shot and some did not even respond when attacked,they should have in my opinion. At the end of the day,most of us are sitting behind a computer blogging while Syrians in Syria live in fear and anxiety. Syrian expats’ relevance and influence is overrated and the most we can do is support and advise our brothers and sisters in the motherland. Facebook leaders and ponytail bloggers are noisy opportunists who can only incite and beg,the real heroes are back home..for the records,I do not have a pony tail,did you hear that,Jad 🙂
July 14th, 2011, 10:51 pm
Tara said:
Dear Why,
You are welcome. I hope you are not mad… I was trying to help
July 14th, 2011, 10:59 pm
Usama said:
The evil murderous Turkish army’s treatment of the Turkish Kurdish peaceful protesters MUST STOP NOW! 13 Free Turkish soldiers were killed on Thursday for heroically refusing orders to shoot at the civilian peaceful protesters. It’s time to impose sanctions on Turkey for this unacceptable behavior. I expect Bashar al-Asad to call Erdoghan daily to advise him on how to reform to appease the peaceful Turkish Kurdish protesters and Walid al-Mu`allim should publicly condemn the new interior minister, ?dris Naim ?ahin, for his “savage” behavior and advise Turkey to open a dialogue with its own Kurdish citizens rather than responding to their legitimate demands, flowers, and olive branches with live bullets and air strikes.
July 14th, 2011, 11:37 pm
Nour said:
Norman:
I think we all know now that there are armed elements inside Syria who did shoot at the security and the army. However, most of these armed elements are not organized in anyway and either armed themselves to defend themselves against security elements or were Islamists who had a score to settle with the regime. Of course certain foreign countries and armed smugglers tried to exploit the situation to their advantage, which is to be expected. However, the ultimate blame must be placed on Tue regime for three main reasons:
1. The regime, through its repressive practices created conditions that drove people to want to fight it at all costs. The main argument the regime used to legitimize itself was its support of the resistance and its tough stance against the US and “Israel.” However, the reality was that the average Syrian was the one paying the price for this position, while members of the regime were enjoying decadent riches. If the entire country was in a war state where everyone took part in the battle, people would have accepted it. But to have those ruling claiming their legitimacy from the fight against the enemy while making the average Syrian bear the burden of the fight as they enjoyed their luxurious lavish lifestyles created a sense of disdain toward the regime.
2. The corruption of customs officials and border patrol officers allowed weapons to be smuggled into the country.
3. A lot of the weapons, believe it or not, were actually bought from security officers.
The bottom line is that this regime identified itself as a security regime and failed miserably in the one area in which it claimed to specialize, namely security. So what is left for it to do? This regime must be completely dismantled if we are to see Syria move forward. The only issue, which is what I have been arguing all along, is that we want this regime change to be as smooth as possible with minimum damage. A sudden collapse of the regime could spell disaster for Syria and it is what we are trying to avoid. I think we are going to see some major announcements within the next few days, as Bashar himself realizes this regime must go.
July 14th, 2011, 11:46 pm
NK said:
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July 14th, 2011, 11:54 pm
why-discuss said:
Abughassan
I am not so sure all Syrians in Syria live in fear at least not in Damascus. In Bab Touma a concert of a popular Syrian singer brought lots of ‘peaceful’ people in the street two days ago. I learned that Lebanese singer Najwa Karam was giving a live concert now in Damascus too.
Concerning the army, I agree with you and I think that as long as it stands with Bashar al Assad, the system will be allowed to change gradually in the right direction, despite the hopes for its imminent fall coming from haters and international self righteous people.
Turkey’s Davutoglu has announced he’ll visit Syria very soon.
July 15th, 2011, 12:22 am
Revlon said:
173. Dear Abughassan
You said:
1. I am against capital punishment for head of states
I say,
A rhetorical question:
Would you be so forgiving had your son or daughter been the victims? of a truly elected MB?
A thought:
Jr might disageree with you, anyway!
Once he sees the videos and hear the sounds of the thousands of victims of his torture machine he might beg for capital punishment!
July 15th, 2011, 1:20 am
Darryl said:
206. NOUR
Unfortunately, for the average Syrian, the failure has been across a lot of policies. This is what happens when there is lack of competition. I hope SSNP does not make that mistake if they are in power one day.
Nour, how is the SSNP going in Syria and just out of curiosity what is the relationship between the Lebanon branch and Syrian branch, like how do they work together?. I know a few people who were active in the SSNP in the US and Australia and seem to be active in Syria, I saw their pictures on the web.
Also, can you give a brief biography of Dr Ali Haidar?
July 15th, 2011, 1:25 am
Revlon said:
182. Abughassan said:
You said:
In my personal opinion,both are wrong.
Each side has few,or many,evil individuals who can only thrive in an environment of conflict and division.
I refused to dehumanize those that I disagree with because I prefer to humanize my fellow Syrians.
I say:
I sense a contradiction here!
Please help!
July 15th, 2011, 1:27 am
louai said:
AFP
‘Imad Mustapha was called in to meet with top State Department officials “to express a number of our concerns with the reported actions of certain Syrian embassy staff in the United States. We received reports that Syrian mission personnel under ambassador Mustapha’s authority have been conducting video and photographic surveillance of people participating in peaceful demonstrations in the United States.”
the british also did the same with Mr. Al khaymi in London !
As if the embassy need to film the protestors to know who they are
The protestors filming themselves and posting on youtube , very clear faces and smiling to the camera ? why the need to film from far away?
Here an example
http://www.twitvid.com/JWWXC
not enough ? just google Syrian protest London/Washington embassy and get loads.
July 15th, 2011, 1:42 am
Aboud said:
Norman @201 Hadi Jundi who died last Friday with a single shot to his face, was standing in a large group of demonstrators near Ghota. He was not attacking government buildings, the nearest government building was very far away. He was not attacking security forces, he was a trained medic there to give first aid to anyone who needed it. He was a random target, and his killing was meant to intimidate the people of Homs.
As usual, it didn’t work. His funeral in Bab Esba3 was one of the largest Homs had ever seen. People came in from Latakia and Damascus to attend it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mF6broDU7ss&feature=player_embedded
Because of the massive turn out, the regime acted like it usually does, and clamped down on Khaldia and Bab Esba3, resulting in more casualties, resulting in even bigger night time demonstrations.
Remember Hani Jundi people, if one day you ask yourselves how the regime managed to lose control of events so completely.
July 15th, 2011, 3:50 am
HS said:
Fake video and farewell
To prove that an image or a video has NOT been edited is a long and technically difficult task.
( The “CIA” always took several days before authenticating the OBL’s cartridge videos they got from Al Jazeera )
To prove that a video has been edited is easy and I would have said that 80% of the the video uploaded on Youtube by the e-opposition have been edited.
It is very easy to take pieces of different videos and to make one,
it is very easy to add new sound to a video ,
this is foolish to derive anything from a video on Youtube.
I have seen a video where a troop of ( real ) sheep in the street of a Syrian chanted slogans. ( very truthful )
Then there is the fabricated scenes :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9DrkYHzGV4&feature=youtu.be
Only a commentator on SC will not see that is wrong !!
Then there is the fabrication by media.
Once an (edited) video uploaded by the e-opposition showed by mistake a scene which was not in favor of their agenda.
Al Jazeera used this video in one of their “report” but they edited out the “mistake” scene.
So then the Guardian hired a “specialist” who ONLY found that a photo of the President meeting with an new mayor of a Syrian city has been modified makes me laugh and is a definite proof by absurd that my previous figure of 80% is near to 99.9999% .
Bien que vous ayez cessé d’être une prostituée, un jour vous le pûtes.
Sorry , this adapted sentence does not translate well in any language , it is like a french cooking recipe with fake ingredients.
When I said that some Syrian people ( or pretending to be ) has to be REeducated ,someone says on this blog that that was needed was 10 millions brain transplants ,
I can say now that his estimate was a joke .
As I said this was my last day (I precise 24 hour to preempt a comment ) ,
I may have extended by more than a few minutes as I have more to say but I will not .
The last one ,
everybody will be wondering that means the H in my pseudo (HS) .
( some may have found that S means Syrian )
So long and thanks for the fish !
July 15th, 2011, 4:42 am
Aboud said:
“this is foolish to derive anything from a video on Youtube.”
Then the government should allow foreign media free and unfettered access to the hotspots in Syria. If as you say, the entire revolution is one fake Youtube video, that will become very apparent very soon.
But as long as even Mexican and South Korean media are treated like Israeli spy agencies, people around the world will wonder what the regime is so scared of the world seeing.
“So long and thanks for the fish !”
Hitch Hiker’s Guide to the Galaxy was so overrated.
July 15th, 2011, 5:02 am
Najwa Keylani said:
Regarding scared christians, what do you actually expect when an official reporter approaches in broad mid day_ That they will say mukhabarat are more scary than theives and regular criminals (which every Syrian knows regardless of religion) ; it would’nt be different if the reporter went to a mosque, pepole would say the same thing. Al bouti, holding a high rank position in the muslim community supports Bashar even more then the priest mentionned here, do you actually think any priest ot Imam would be able to get a high rank position and hold it if he was not pro-president (at least out-wards) in “Assad’s Syria”? .. Not saying that some are not scared of extreme Islamist influence, but majority of those are groups in middle and high classes in general, more than specific religious groups. But what they fear might be a reality if they keep hiding their heads in the sand( further explanation on what I mean : http://bit.ly/obY9qq or http://syrians4change.wordpress.com/2011/07/10/%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%AE%D9%88%D9%81-%D9%85%D9%86-%D8%AE%D8%B7%D8%B1-%D8%AD%D8%B1%D8%A8-%D8%A3%D9%87%D9%84%D9%8A%D8%A9-%D9%88-%D8%AA%D8%B7%D8%B1%D9%81-%D8%A7%D8%B3%D9%84%D8%A7%D9%85%D9%8A-%D9%81%D9%8A/ )
July 15th, 2011, 5:08 am
Amir in Tel Aviv said:
YouTube is the best source of info. Period. This is a democratization of the news industry. No TV channel can cover any such event, in a way that we see on YT. Can a news network send 40 different crews to 40 locations? But this is what you see when you go to channels on YT that cover Syria. And it’s minute by minute kind of covering.
.
July 15th, 2011, 5:24 am
Tara said:
Regime Supporters,
“Please note I am using the “supporter” description as you ara a heterogeneous group of mnhebak and mamnhebak as you explained yourself before, and I like to believe people”
Sophia, Syrian Commando, then Simon, then Mawal3or4 (I forgot), then HS? All in one month.
What is this? Mental defeat?
Does that tell you anything?
July 15th, 2011, 6:55 am
Amir in Tel Aviv said:
Dear Tara,
I have a long answer to you (a just peace of the brave). But now I’m going to the beach, then to a vegan restaurant with my vegan pals, so later.
.
July 15th, 2011, 7:25 am
Tara said:
Majedkhaldoun and anyone
Kandahar’ s question yesterday in regard to the promise of 7 virgins to the martyrs in the holly Quraan was a valid one. While I said before, Quran is my holly book and I don’t like to be put in a position to judge any verse, I think we should not enslave our mind to any thought of any source without thinking.
Are there any interpretation other than the literal meaning? If not, the question posed was about women martyrs? What about Gay martyrs? Has any Islamic scholar discussed the topic or is it kept a taboo? Does any one know?
July 15th, 2011, 7:33 am
OFF THE WALL said:
ABUGHASSAN AND REVLON
Personally I am against death penalty (no exception). I would love to see the uprising taking a no death-penalty position not only for heads of states but for everyone. I know it is hard to digest, but it is a principled stance, and it is not as impossible as one may think. I have met loved ones of murder victims, who were able to maintain their anti-death penalty stance and obtain a much better closure than with revenge imposed by the state. I would argue that life sentence with no possibility of parole would be a stronger punishment than mere death for many, especially for very powerful people.
That said, I am all for very strong punishment (life-time) for femicide crimes (mistakenly called honor crimes), as well as for any other crime against humanity.
Bare in mind that if human rights abusers of Syria flee to the west, which is a likely scenario, getting them extradited back for trial will be impossible if Syria continues to have death penalty.
July 15th, 2011, 7:35 am
Tara said:
OTW,
Personal question. You do not have to answer. And I won’t get offended.
What is your educational background? You can be general if you want to.
July 15th, 2011, 7:40 am
Akbar Palace said:
How did I become so anti-Israel? NewZ
I asked Amnesia,
Do the Palestinians have MORE or LESS rights than the average Syrian?
Amnesia answered,
On average? Much less.
Amnesia,
How did you come to that conclusion? Did you come to that conclusion by talking with your Arab friends and family, or did you come to that conclusion based on human rights rankings from respected organizations like Freedom House, etc?
http://www.freedomhouse.org/uploads/fiw10/FIW_2010_Map_MENA.pdf
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_in_the_World
July 15th, 2011, 7:42 am
Akbar Palace said:
Take Two Aleve
Akbar Palace, check the press TV documentary section on the internet.
Darryl,
The onus is on you. You made the claim; you back it up. Thanks.
From memory, it was a multi-series documentary showing a number of south american families not just one off case. You will be quite aware of all the lost tribe members from India, Thailand and other south east asians who having been settling on Palestinian land.
What in Allah’s name are you talking about?? Post a link. I have doubts about your “memory”. No new immigrant settles on “Palestinian land”.
Of course, there are the jihadists/Islamic fundamentalists here and throughout the ME who believe all of Israel is “Palestinian Land”, so, in that case, I can’t help you.;)
From the years I’ve spent on this website, it is clear as day that Arabs have a hard time, a VERY hard time, accepting Israel as a legitimate state in the region.
The democratization and freedom process as well as the acceptance of the State of Israel is showing the expected “growing pains”…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_citizens_of_Israel
July 15th, 2011, 7:57 am
Darryl said:
219. Tara said:
Tara, SNK is off by a factor of 10. I believe the number is 71 or 73 virgins per martyr, as well as a large number of palaces with many servants. This offcourse was made fun of in the Danish cartoons a few years ago, where the Messinger was shown in one of the cartoons.
Being gay is not permitted in Islam and Judaism and gays can be punished by death just like the Torah also orders.
July 15th, 2011, 7:58 am
Akbar Palace said:
Punished by Parades
Darryl,
Instead of misinforming the participants here on Judaism, I would stick just to explaining Islam, assuming of course, that this is your faith…
http://www.gaytlvguide.com/component/content/article/12-fp-articles/17-gay-pride-parade-tel-aviv-2011-june-10
http://www.jpost.com/Israel/Article.aspx?id=183072
July 15th, 2011, 8:13 am
mjabali said:
Tara:
Women in Islam take the back seat. They walk behind the man. They get beat up and get less than males in inheritance. they can not be taken as equal to males when it comes to courts as a witness. Their bodies are the public property of the collective and has to cover and of course consider it “‘Awrah.”????
Almost everything in Islam is promised to men. for example, Paradise in al-Quran, whick has sexual and carnal promises all over, was all promised for males. It hardly recognizes that women could be there, so what a woman martyr get? Rivers of wine? Eternal Ghulman (young male slaves)
Women were promised nothing in paradise, whereas men were promised rivers of wine and Ghulman (young male slaves). al-Quran said that men were promised : Eternal Ghulman ????? ??????. This is GAY plain and simple. But, of course Islam did not tackle the issue of gayness in the open. It was shoved under the carpet. So to answer your question about the issue of Gay marriage, Islam would like to never has to be put to answer this question? They like to beat around the bushes as always. But, if cornered and forced to answer they would ALL say something along the lines of : kill them or stone them or beat them up in public..or 300 lashes when you apply for a marriage license…or…!!!
As for your question regarding the books that interpret Quran, here in my opinion there are way too many books but none of them is MODERN, i.e meant for the contemporary reader. They are written in a “hard” type of language.
They, mostly, are sectarian also, i.e. the sectarian mind set of the writer may play a role here and there regarding some verses. Also, if you have a Sufi interpreter, it would be lighter and more spiritual than when you have a Salafi Militant Jihadi interpreter. In my humble opinion, none is written to and for the modern reader. Even the ones written now are done in a way as if the writer is arguing against a scholar from the tenth C.
As for Syria and Islam, I would like to share this video about a Muslim show on TV that deals with interpreting VISIONS (dreams) regarding Syria
July 15th, 2011, 8:21 am
majedkhaldoon said:
Tara
I do not believe in 7 virgin or 70 virgin, it is nonsense.
OTW
Here I do differ from you, I do not believe in putting people in jail for long, freedom is more precious than life.
July 15th, 2011, 8:21 am
Tara said:
Darryl,
It would never be my intention to offend anyone’ belief system and I know when religious matters are discussed, you are walking a slippery slope.
What If a gay render himself/herself to martyrdom? They go to hell? Whereas a non-gay martyr ends up at the hieghest level of heaven with 7 or 70 virgins. I find this very difficult to believe. I believe in inherently fair and just god and I call him Allah. I can’t claim I know him well but I know he is logical and I can’t simply accept that he would agree to above.
I do not know about the servants concept either. Are there servants in heaven?
You mentioned Islam and Torah punishing gays with death penalty. Last thing I heard was death penalty in Islam is applied in 3 cases: killers, convertor (riddah) and Married zaneea.
You did not mention Christianity. Why? Does it permit being gay?
Do Jews believe in hell/heaven concept?
July 15th, 2011, 8:21 am
Darryl said:
Tara, being gay is not permitted in Christianity, I cannot remember what the Injil perscribes as a punishment. There was a furor a few years back when that American bishop was ordained and he was gay.
Akbar Palace, do not be defensive. I beleive the Torah perscribes the death penalty for gays. And for your records, my background is Christianity, Syrian Orthodox to be exact. So I have a copy of the Torah, Injil and Qur’an that I read from time to time. And I do recall that the Torah calls for gays to be put to death.
July 15th, 2011, 8:37 am
norman said:
Aboud#213,
Don’t you think that Janoud died by a stray bullet as if it was intentional many more would have died ,
Nour,
Many things were wrong in Syria but violent takeover of power still not justified.
Equal right to all not only rights to the opposition.
I still do not believe that the security fighting back was a systemic attack by the army but a secure peace and defend your selves plan.
July 15th, 2011, 8:51 am
Akbar Palace said:
More Myths about Israel (con’t)
Akbar Palace, do not be defensive. I beleive the Torah perscribes the death penalty for gays.
Darryl,
Yes, the Torah also prescribes stoning, lashing, and an “eye for an eye”.
But ISRAELI law is not based on the Torah. Plain and simple.
There is no jewish “shaaria” in Israel, so I guess I’m not sure why you brought it up.
July 15th, 2011, 8:52 am
Tara said:
Darryl,
So you conclude that the three monothestic religions all ask for death penalty ( or somekind of penalty in case of Christianity) for gays, and pending confirmation from expert opinions on this forum, I want to pose a quesion noting that I am not trying to defend or offend any stand on the matter of religion:
Is it really what these religions calling for, or is it really our own interpretation of the religion? Can’t be that we collectively never ever understood any religion at all?
It is just not possible for me to accept for instance that Islam asking me to use my judgement to differentiate between right and wrong and then agree to surrender my
judgement when it comes to certain “doctrine”. It just does not make sense.
July 15th, 2011, 8:56 am
why-discuss said:
Are Syrian Soap Operas Boycotted in Ramadan 2011?
http://www.dp-news.com/en/detail.aspx?articleid=90126
…”Syrian producers complain that foreign Arab TV channels are reluctant to buy the programmes, a move seen by some as a protest at the regime’s handling of the uprising, the pro-regime views of some soap actors and directors have prompted calls for boycotts.
…..Campaigns to boycott some soaps because of the political views of their actors and directors have also created a stir. In recent weeks, both pro- and anti-regime activists have set up Facebook ‘blacklists’ of artists to be avoided.
One site that lists “shameful” pro-regime artists now has nearly 22,000 fans. On the list are Fadia Khattab, a well-known Syrian actress and chairwoman of the Syrian Artist Guild, and Doreid Lahham, an actor who is this year starring in a Ramadan soap billed as a comedy about the current crisis.
July 15th, 2011, 8:57 am
Tara said:
Akbar Palace,
Do Jews believe in hell/heaven concept?
July 15th, 2011, 9:00 am
why-discuss said:
Ford, Our Man in Damascus
http://mideast.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2011/07/14/our_man_in_damascus
“I have seen no evidence yet in terms of hard changes on ground that the Syrian government is willing to reform at anything like the speed demanded by the street protestors. If it doesn’t start moving with far greater alacrity, the street will wash them away.
That was the blunt verdict offered by U.S. Ambassador Robert Ford in a wide-ranging telephone interview with Foreign Policy today….”
July 15th, 2011, 9:03 am
Darryl said:
Akbar Palace, I am well aware that Israeli common law is somewhat secular for now. It was not my intention to say that Israel follows the Torah exactly, it does not. In the Torah, God destroyed Sadom and Gomura because they were practicing gay relationships. The hardline jewish practioners will not be all to happy about the gay parade in Jerusalem.
July 15th, 2011, 9:03 am
Tara said:
Why
I also promised myself not to watch any Syrian Soap Opera of Duraid Lahaam and actors who passed judgement on the protestors as trash.
July 15th, 2011, 9:04 am
Shami said:
Darryl ,i like and respect your community a lot.
I feel at home among my people ,my compatriots in mashtal ,marmarita,safita,mashtayeh and arround ,ahel el karam and 3ouroubeh el haqiqiyeh ,i love the byzantine art,the icons and chant a lot,i like to listen the beautiful liturgy chants in the monastery of Saint Georges in Meshtayeh.I’m very sad to see that the inhabitants of these villages are leaving abroad,especially to the americas ,many schools have closed because the important decrease of the number of children.
Such cultural bleeding saddens me the most.
Syria must do its possible in order to attract back to their homeland ,the best of its sons.
July 15th, 2011, 9:07 am
OFF THE WALL said:
TARA
Engineering/Science
Jack of few trades, master of none.. probably fits me well.
MAJED
I really don’t think we differ. I wholeheartedly agree that Freedom is more precious than life, taking someone’s life for horrendous crimes would then be the lenient punishment, no?
I do not like very long sentence for normal crimes, I believe that drug and prostitution should be decriminalized and I believe that prison sentences should be short in general, but for very serious crimes, especially crimes against humanity, long-term jails are perhaps the only substitute for death penalty.
July 15th, 2011, 9:09 am
Akbar Palace said:
Tara,
When dealing with Judaism, it seems there are never any definitive answers.
Here are some links:
As is clear from this brief discussion, the Jewish tradition contains a variety of opinions on the subjects of heaven and hell.
http://www.myjewishlearning.com/beliefs/Theology/Afterlife_and_Messiah/Life_After_Death/Heaven_and_Hell.shtml
http://www.religionfacts.com/judaism/beliefs/afterlife.htm
Akbar Palace, I am well aware that Israeli common law is somewhat secular for now.
It’s not “somewhat” secular, it is TOTALLY secular.
It was not my intention to say that Israel follows the Torah exactly, it does not.
Not only does Israel NOT follow the “Torah exactly”, it doesn’t even REMOTELY follow the Torah.
In the Torah, God destroyed Sadom and Gomura because they were practicing gay relationships.
Darryl,
Thanks for the Torah lesson!
The hardline jewish practioners will not be all to happy about the gay parade in Jerusalem.
Oh well. They’re not happy. Too bad!
July 15th, 2011, 9:12 am
Shami said:
Mjabali ,in mainstream Islam there is no clerical leadership ,a kind of pope or grand ayatollah.So the level of Islam depends on the intellectual and cultural qualities of the muslim populations themselves,today the masses are culturally and intellectualy not sophisticated and this reality affects Islam negatively.I remind you that a muslim sheikh ,qadi ,philosopher Ibn Rushd(among others) influenced heavily the european intellectual revival ,that opened the door to the european renaissance.
We should be optimistic for the future ,because after 50 years of one party system ,the revival of a pluralistic civil society would resume the arab islamic renaissance that was annhilitated by the now dying regimes.
July 15th, 2011, 9:20 am
Akbar Palace said:
12 More Syrian Terrorists killed today
I guess it’s time to blame the usual suspects:
The US, Israel and the West…
http://news.yahoo.com/syrian-security-forces-tear-gas-protesters-110959239.html
July 15th, 2011, 9:25 am
why-discuss said:
Syrians Mount Biggest Protests So Far, 12 Killed
http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2011/07/15/world/middleeast/international-us-syria.html?_r=1&ref=global-home
“These are the biggest demonstrations so far. It is a clear challenge to the authorities, especially when we see all these numbers coming out from Damascus for the first time,” said Rami Abdelrahman, head of the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights.
July 15th, 2011, 9:41 am
Samara said:
Got back from a protest outside the French and American embacys in Melbourne! Even the cops seemed to be on our side! It was fantastic.
Oh, and for all those people who say that Bashar’s forces attack peaceful protesters, take a look at this! And this is in a well known democratic country, Australia.
http://youtu.be/P2yo1t1ChHc
Here, the people were ralying in support of the Palistinian liberation movement.
July 15th, 2011, 9:44 am
Tara said:
Shami and Mjibali,
Shami, great answer. I can not agree more. There is no clerical leadership in mainstream sunni specifically. I think it is different for Shiaa though. And the masses are pretty much not culturally sophisticated and therefore they are negatively affecting Islam. And I also blame it on the political authoritarian system that plagues Syria for 40 years. I can not agree more. (Sorry mnhebaks). I truly think if Syria would have a chance to true freedom after the fall of the regime, a perhaps cultural revolution might unravel itself that would drastically change the way the world over perceive Islam.
Mjibali, it all boils down on one’s interpretation of Islam. I do not believe that women took or taking backseat in Islam. They may have in families with strict narrow interpretation of the religion and that is a problem. Women in Syria do not take a backseat in general. A lot of Syrian women are very educated and pretty much accomplished. I doubt there is gender difference in the level of education in Syria and I believe women in general are pretty respected. Texts remain texts and open to interpretation but what really take place is something different.
July 15th, 2011, 9:48 am
5 dancing shlomos said:
as in palestine and iraq, all historical, cultural, religious treasures in syria will be targeted by the lunatic and its catspaw when possible.
July 15th, 2011, 10:15 am
majedkhaldoon said:
OTW
What do you say about punishing people by taking their money.sometime all their money.
what about some punishment by exposing the people,let the other know that they are bad and committed evil,ruin the image can be punishment.
Shami
Is there any evidence, in Quraan or Hadith,that there is sex act in heaven,and are we going to be able to have children from women in heaven?I have never read that there is sex in heaven,there will be mermaids,but no clear evidence that we will have sex with them.
Is it possible that on earth we should have pure life,no extra marital sex,and no drinking wine, but we are allowed this in heaven,and we can live forever enjoying all kinds of evil things we are not allowed in this life.
July 15th, 2011, 10:18 am
Tara said:
Dear Why,
Your willful attempt to ignore weighing in when I am sure you have a lot of substance to add is a bit “silly”. I am sorry I hurt your feeling but you did too, intensely, and you started it. I am no longer mad and you shouldn’t be either. I promise I am not gonna invite you to have a breakfast at Tiffany’s but you should not ignore a subject just because I am part of it….Do I really need to make a drawing too?
July 15th, 2011, 10:19 am
Shami said:
Majed ,sex is promoted in Islam,what is the problem with it?is there more beautiful than physical love between two lovers.
It depends on muslim thinkers ,some say that the heaven is a spiritual level in which the human reach the highest beatitude and perfection through the union with the agent intellect(Aristotle influence) ,these are the views of the neo platonician muslim philosophers such as Avicenna(saint intellect) who was under the influence of Al Farabi’s ontology and cosmology and intellectual Sufis such as the great master Ibn Arabi.
For the more literalist muslims ,heaven is not restricted to spirituality but it’s also a material reality which is a world of beauty and sensual pleasures…both views are compatible.
July 15th, 2011, 10:49 am
N.Z. said:
Faith is used to advance political, social and different agendas. Judaism has nothing to do with occupying Palestine and denying Palestinians their freedom, by daily oppression. To the contrary, the ten commandments are the same in the three monotheistic religion. The crusaders did not only kill Muslims, Christians as well, claiming they are heretics. The likes of Sayed Kotb of Egypt was the first Muslim to label both Christians and Jews as kuffar, his interpretation has been taken by opportunist to tarnish one of the equally nice holy books, namely, the Quran.
Discussing religion in these times serve the regime. It is an upheaval of a people who are fed up from oppression, corruption and nepotism.
One of the nicest verses in the Quran is about God’s creation of people from different tribes and nations to get to know one another. He, never said to kill one another, neither the Bible, nor the Torah. In my humble opinion , true religious people, those who truly understand the text, religion refine their morality, accepting one another and leaving judgement to God.
Oppression must end.o
July 15th, 2011, 10:57 am
Shami said:
It depends on muslim thinkers ,some say that the heaven is a spiritual level in which the human reach :
corr: it’s about the human soul of course
July 15th, 2011, 11:02 am
Tara said:
Shami,
Are you a philosopher?
July 15th, 2011, 11:07 am
Akbar Palace said:
Memories of a better Time
Assad: It’s the Occubation™…
July 15th, 2011, 11:09 am
why-discuss said:
Tara
I have stopped attempting anything. Why discuss?. These events are unraveling independently of our cheers or wooos, so I just wait and see.
July 15th, 2011, 11:10 am
Friend in America said:
Tara,
I agree with you in questioning whether the statements made today about the 3 main religions are contemporary interpretations or original “truths.” Most are interpretations. Interpretations are necessary because life is constantly creating new questions of conduct for religious scholars to explain. Acceptance or banishing gays and lesbians illustrates this dilemma.
In the mid 19th century a German geneticist made the observation that a small element of males and females preferred the company of the same sex and did not desire a sexual relation with one of the opposite sex but rather, enjoyed sexual relations with each other. To classify those who preferred affinity with one of their own sex he coined a word that translated into English is “homosexual.”
It was in the late 19th century and all of the 20th century that society, particularly in the western world, wrestled with how regard homosexual conduct. Resorting to the words of the Torah, Bible or Quran in an effort to answer this question created contemporary interpretations because the concept did not exist before mid 19th century. How can we find a clear explicit passage in ancient religious texts directly dealing with acceptance or non acceptance of gays when the concept of homosexuality was first identified in the mid 19th century? We cannot. We are left only with interpretation as we wrestle with the homosexual question.
While the religious leaders of all three traditions initially castigated homosexual conduct, there has been a gradual movement, relying on new contemporary interpretations, over the past 3 decades toward full acceptance. “Mainline Protestant” denominations in America, Europe and other regions have been in the forefront. Virtually all of these traditions now accept and affirm homosexuals and most are willing to elect them to offices in their denomination, from priest (called pastor or minister in some traditions) to bishop and president. It does not go down well with everyone in the congregation but especially in the American and European Protestant traditions faith is a personal matter and a continuous lifelong experience. This is a tenant of the reformed tradition. The guidance in the Orthodox Churches is wonderful, urging believers to love and accept all even if in disagreement. The Roman Catholic tradition is more dogmatic but at the parish church level there is some acceptance. Some Catholic priests even hold services of celebration for those who do not desire a partner of the other sex.
The first step to acceptance is to recognize the private sexual behavior of another is none of my affair. We do not need bedroom police.
July 15th, 2011, 11:13 am
why-discuss said:
N.Z
Did you read the Bible and the Torah, it is all about threats, punishment and violence. God in these books is not a kind entity..
The Qoran brought more humanity and tolerance and the Injil brought humility and forgiveness.
Unfortunately when in the hands of men, all religions have been distorted and used to manipulate and oppress.
July 15th, 2011, 11:18 am
OFF THE WALL said:
Dear Majed
You are posing a very tough question to a hard-core liberal (Humanist). The concept of punishment poses an ethical dilemma to any liberal person. I really need to read more about shaming, otherwise I will be forced to rely on “inner meter”, which is hostile to shaming punishment. However, some ethicists argue that if there is a greater common good in an action and a significant value, then the utilitarian view may be taken. This is why I have to read more about the issue in order to identify from studies, legal reviews, or ethical discourse and sociological studies whether the benefit of shaming punishment outweighs the suspension of the prohibition on cruel and unusual punishment. To me shaming is cruel and protection against cruelty can only be waived if there is a much greater public good, which I have not yet evaluated for myself to give you a well informed answer. Under the current conditions in Syria, I am hard pressed between busy work and following news and commentaries to do any more reading. But as I promised Husam late last year, I will do so at the earliest possible opportunity. Two law review papers on the subject are already on my reading device.
I do believe in restitution, community service is much more valuable than prison time. Yet, taking money should be commensurable to fair and equitable restitution.
July 15th, 2011, 11:25 am
Nour said:
DARRYL:
The SSNP is not interested in taking power the way the Baath did because when you come to power by force and without the support of the people, you can only maintain power by force. The SSNP is more of a grassroots movement aiming to bring about a renaissance in the Syrian nation. Once this renaissance is achieved the system will naturally change by itself and with the will of the Syrian people, rather than through a forceful takeover by some group.
With respect to relations between different “branches” the SSNP is one party with one leadership. The current central headquarters are in Beirut due to certain political realities, but the party is organized into different directorates (moudeeriyat), executives (mounaffaziyat), and legations (moufawadiyat) in different regions across the homeland depending on the number of members in each region, as specified in the constitution. There is a central legation in the Syrian Arab Republic, as well as executives and directorates in different cities and provinces, which all answer to the leadership at the headquarters in Beirut.
Regarding Dr. Ali Haidar’s biography, I don’t know details other than that he’s from Misyaf and is an Ophthalmologist (yes, just like Bashar ;-)). He was previously the central legate (moufawed markazi) in the Syrian Arab Republic and was elected president of the SSNP in December of 2008.
Norman:
My point is that the recent unrest stems from a prolonged regime policy of imposing itself on the people through brutal repression while denying the country any real political life. Certain violent elements among the protesters should of course be condemned, but the ultimate responsibility falls on the shoulders of the regime for its inexcusable practices throughout the years.
July 15th, 2011, 11:27 am
N.Z. said:
This regime has one option only, to leave now. It is the only way to save lives.
They and their supporters had four decades of ruling Syria.
The late Ibrahim Kashoush, who was brutally murdered by the regime sadist, his throat slit and his body found in a river, his song, leave…leave ya Bashar is sang in every protest all over Syria. May God bless him and his likes. A true freedom fighter. His weapon, a voice chanting freedom for all.
July 15th, 2011, 11:31 am
5 dancing shlomos said:
we dont interfere in other countries. we are innocent, clean, pure.
trust us.
“‘Avi Dichter, Israel’s former interior security minister, once said:
“We had to weaken Sudan and deprive it of the initiative to build a strong and united state. That is necessary for bolstering and strengthening Israel’s national security. We produced and escalated the Darfur crisis to prevent Sudan from developing its capabilities.”‘
sudan, iraq, iran, libya, lebanon, usa, and syria, and ……..
July 15th, 2011, 11:41 am
norman said:
Nour,
I agree, the single party system brought in corruption and the hate for the Baath party ,
I was one of those who wanted the elimination of article 8 in the late seventies, and for the Baath party which i think is the right one for me to fight for the love of the Syrian people , as i felt that it corrupting the Baath party members .
July 15th, 2011, 11:59 am
majedkhaldoon said:
Why Discuss
I read Bible and I read Quraan numerous time, What you say
“the Bible and the Torah, it is all about threats, punishment and violence. God in these books is not a kind entity..”
You are wrong, there are many advices and talk about rewards of beautifull life, about peace and love and God is not nice and kind to evil people, but God is extremely kind to good people.
Shami
Sex is promoted in Islam on earth, but the question of mermaids in heaven, there is no mention in Quraan that we will have sex with them or we will have kids from them, in heaven there will be enjoyments and happiness however.
The good thing about Islam is that it gives us freedom and value it, it tells us to think and examine our thinking ,not to get order blindly, but to understand everything,why we do it ,and is it right or wrong,Islam this way is a wonderful religion.
Mohammad said to have difference among my people is Mercy,God is merciful,and we should have mercy.
should we apply capital punishment on head of states?I believe they are not different from ordinary people, and if they killed,they should have the same punishment for other criminals.
I believe Bashar once he is removed from his current job,should relinquish all his money,that should be returned to the people.He is resposible for all the crimes which were committed under his eye, if we do not believe in capital punishment the least we should do is to take all his money ,it was stolen money and no need to kill him once he is powerless,and can not kill anymore.
July 15th, 2011, 12:06 pm
Samara said:
NZ
You are still deluded. Your freedom fighters death had MB painted all over it.
Death, destruction, corruption, mutilations, decapitations and so on will only priceede to exist if the regime stands down. Because, as any person can see, these murders and vile events that have been happening are curtacy of the revolution. And if you get people like that to run the country, well, it will just get worse.
You sing leave Bashar. We, 23million syrians sing Allah, Souria, Bashar ou Basss!!
July 15th, 2011, 12:11 pm
5 dancing shlomos said:
all that is good in the torah is from egyt and surrounding cultures.
verbatim at least 7/10 commandments are from egypt. all the moral stories come from egypt.
this is why egypt is vilified in the jewish book.
they hate those they envy and steal from.
July 15th, 2011, 12:19 pm
Tara said:
Friend In America,
One beautiful thing in the Islam that I understand and submit too is the concept of lack of clerical system to dictate how I should think or feel. Islam indeed as N.Z. Stated above did increase my morality where I personally feel and see the inherent “beauty” of any human being and leave judgement to god. In my case, it is applicable to every one else without exception, gays or non -gays, people of any religion or any faith, it does not matter. I can not hold gays responsible for their sexual preference, nor can I hold people responsible for their religious beliefs. They are just created into their sexuality or born into their religion so who am I to just judge them.
The only time, I found myself dehumanizing anyone is when he or she willfully commits an act of atrocity against another human being because they just can do it. This happened to me during this crisis in Syria. And still, I do not dehumanize the rank and files. I dehumanize the ruling elite, the inner circle that is, the men and women making decisions to kill just to stay in power, and with all the tolerance I think I have in my psych, I just can not not dehumanize them.
Now, I do not claim that all Muslims feel the same way but I like to believe that most culturally sophisticated one do.
July 15th, 2011, 12:21 pm
Aboud said:
Samara @264 A ten man demonstration in Damascus is worth more than a thousand in Sydney.
So, who else saw that shocking clip on Al-Jazeera, of a guy in Homs getting kicked and beaten by the security forces?
I’m sure the more perverted menhebakites will gleefully watch that clip again and again. Just keep one thing in mind…it could only have been a security guy who took the video and sent it to Al-Jazeera. Remember what I said yesterday, that a person doesn’t actually have to defect to be a defector?
The writing is on the wall. No matter how many times the shabiha try to wash it out, it gets rewritten every night. The security forces spent all week trying to suppress and intimidate the people of Homs. That strategy backfired spectacularly.
July 15th, 2011, 12:22 pm
why-discuss said:
MajedAlkhadoon
Sorry to disagree, we have a different perception of the Bible and Torah vs the Qoran and Injil. It is a complex subject, so why discuss ?
July 15th, 2011, 12:26 pm
why-discuss said:
The favorite sentence of the US administration
Bashar Al Assad is running out of time
Iran is running out of time
Kadafi is running out of time
and WE are running out of time
How much time is left?
July 15th, 2011, 12:30 pm
Tara said:
Why@ 251
I beg to differ on this one. Why discuss? Simply because beautiful minds like the exchange and that is a good reason on its own. It is ugly outside and events are indeed unraveling with or without our approval or lack of it, but do we just live and then die passively, each one in his/her own bubble, or appreciate and enjoy the beauty of some one else’ mind?
#269 is funny.
July 15th, 2011, 12:38 pm
jad said:
WD
“How much time is left?”
Until August 2nd when the US will officially declare bankruptcy if the congress and the president doesn’t get a solution for more than $14 Trillions debt and the $1600 Billion budget deficit for this year.
And when the EU decide to breakup…which seems inevitable after Italy joining her bankrupted sisters.
I guess the Arab spring is heading toward some European countries…..soon
July 15th, 2011, 12:44 pm
Shami said:
Majed,we would know in the aftelife ,but i dont see the problem to have sex in heaven because it’s the peak of physical pleasure and i also take the houriyat story with doubt for the reason that i see that sex without love is not recommended in Islam.
Tara, i like philosophy and i studied it at the University(not in Syria) but i would not call myself a philosopher.
July 15th, 2011, 12:56 pm
Revlon said:
226. Dear mjabali, you seem to know too little about so many contoversies in Islam.
Before I address your salient aguments, let my just brief you on my humble perspective on Islam, as per the holy book AlKitab, aka Quran.
– First, nothing is compulsory in religion.
– To be a Moslem, all you need to do is not to associate with God any other power or creature and to act decently.
– To be a believer, one need to believe in God’s messenger/s and book/s.
– The book/s, adhered to by believers of all religions are akin to user manual for mankind. It is intended as guidance to act with decency.
In summary, You are free not to believe in any book or prophet, and still be a good Muslem (if you do not associate anyone with God and act decently).
Who knows, you may also hit the jackpot! up their!
Back to your arguments,
You said: “Women in Islam take the back seat. They walk behind the man.”
The statement is stereotyping. Some Muslems, whom live in the middle east practice that as part of the tradition. It has nothing to do with religion.
Or else, show me the Ayah and Sourah that make your point!
You said: “They get beat up and get less than males in inheritance”
– First; Hitting women. One ayah recommends hitting in a specific condition, (Nushooze). Such is a situation where marriage is threatened.
– Second, show me evidence that Muslem women are physically abused or maltreated more than counterparts in “secular”/Christian/Bhuddist countries or in your own religion.
As to the inheritance Ayat, you really should not delve into this subject, because you do not seem to even begin to understand it. You are following hearsay.
– First, this clause relates to dividing legacy that was not already assigned by the deceased. One can assign as much as they want to their daughters, while alive.
– Second, the ratio of what women get from inheritance changes with many variables. Specialised lawyers arer able to comprehend its complexities.
– Third, the Ayat came to a society where males are the bread winners. Therefore, it does not make a difference in the end! A guy who inherits shall benefit a woman (his wife).
– The Ayat came as recommendation and not an order (Yuseekom)
You said: “They can not be taken as equal to males when it comes to courts as a witness”
To my knowledge, the Ayah applies in two special situations:
Witnessing an adultery, or a will statement by a dying person. This is also a divine recommendation.
You said: “Their bodies are the public property of the collective and has to cover and of course consider it “‘Awrah.”????
The minimum level of decent dress for women as mentioned in Quran is the subject of heated debate. Interpretations vary. Some regard the minimum as similar to men plus covering breasts!
As to the current practice of 7ijab and Niqab, it is tradition and not religion. It is a choice that needs to be respected and not condescendingly discussed.
You said: “Almost everything in Islam is promised to men. for example, Paradise in al-Quran, whick has sexual and carnal promises all over, was all promised for males. It hardly recognizes that women could be there, so what a woman martyr get? Rivers of wine? Eternal Ghulman (young male slaves)
Quran addresses the believers, in almost all of the promises about the next life, in non-gender form.
The ones that deals with rewarding males came probably as an incentive to unmarried young men, in order to fight for the sake for their freedom to chose their belief.
You said: “Women were promised nothing in paradise, whereas men were promised rivers of wine and Ghulman (young male slaves).
al-Quran said that men were promised : Eternal Ghilman ????? ??????. This is GAY plain and simple.”
Your interpretation of Ghilman is debatable at best. According to the Ayah, Ghilman serve the believers wine in paradise. No where in the Quran they are described as or said to behave as Gay. Else, show me the ayah please!
You said: “But, of course Islam did not tackle the issue of gayness in the open. It was shoved under the carpet. So to answer your question about the issue of Gay marriage, Islam would like to never has to be put to answer this question? They like to beat around the bushes as always. But, if cornered and forced to answer they would ALL say something along the lines of : kill them or stone them or beat them up in public..or 300 lashes when you apply for a marriage license…or…!!!
The issue was not shoved under the carpet. The Ayat for punishment of Fa7isha are clear. By the way, four eye witnesses are needed to confirm Fa7isha. Which practically limit the punishment to cases of gross public acts of indecency.
Cheers!
July 15th, 2011, 12:56 pm
why-discuss said:
Tara
Sorry, but first I don’t think I have a beautiful mind but also in the context we are, exchanges can only be focused on the interpretations of the events happening. My only interest from now on is to observe how they ravel on the ground rather then discuss the various analysis and forecasts people feel compelled to do.
I feel no compulsion anymore for that and it makes me feel much better. It is not passivity it is wise acceptance.
July 15th, 2011, 12:58 pm
mjabali said:
Mr Shami comment number 241:
You said that in “mainstream Islam there is no clerical leadership.” I think that this is not correct, because you have clerics getting their noses into every thing in life and beyond. What do you term the clerics of the Committee of Religious Decrees that exits in few countries and had appointed themselves the speakers of “mainstream” Muslims. Sunnis and Shia has clerics and these clerics are the go between the non-cleric Muslim and Allah.
You said : “today the masses are culturally and intellectualy not sophisticated and this reality affects Islam negatively.” I see that your statement is wrong. It is wrong because it is not the average Muslim who is giving Islam a bad name but the Clerics who is issuing funny and out-of-touch decrees like killing Micky Mouse and calls for violence thinking we are still in the times of raids in the 8th C. The ever growing number of TV stations that are just for religious purposes are enforcing the position these Clerics play. People are depending on them to interpret their dreams, solve sexual questions and to regulate their lives in terms of its relation to others.
AS for your example of Ibn Rushd and how a “Muslim” philosopher affected Europe, I see contradiction in you bringing him as an example and speaking of “mainstream” Islam which considers Philosophy as blasphemy. ????? ??????
Mainstream Islam is against philosophy, they think it questions the validity of Allah, something no human should or allowed to do.
Lastly, you said that the one party rule of al-Baath over 50 years had restrained the renaissance of what you called the “Arabic Islamic Civilization,” here I agree that the one party system is anti-progress but was it really against Islam, I doubt that. Under the Assads, father and son, the number of Muslim mosques and schools went through the roof while they did not encourage any alternative and progressive parties to exist.
July 15th, 2011, 12:59 pm
Amnesia said:
Palace,
“Of course, there are the jihadists/Islamic fundamentalists here and throughout the ME who believe all of Israel is “Palestinian Land”, so, in that case, I can’t help you.;)”
You’re wrong. Of those that believe this, “jihadists”, as you put it, make up .01%.
“From the years I’ve spent on this website, it is clear as day that Arabs have a hard time, a VERY hard time, accepting Israel as a legitimate state in the region.”
If you had spent those years reading the history instead of the propaganda, it would be “clear as day” why Arabs feel this way. This discussion is not what you need. You need some good books to read.
July 15th, 2011, 1:06 pm
Afram said:
To Lady Tara:
all you need to know about Islam…..by Dr.Kamel Alnajar/regard
http://www.ahewar.org/m.asp?i=1204
July 15th, 2011, 1:10 pm
mjabali said:
Tara comment 245
You said:
“Mjibali, it all boils down on one’s interpretation of Islam. I do not believe that women took or taking backseat in Islam. They may have in families with strict narrow interpretation of the religion and that is a problem. Women in Syria do not take a backseat in general. A lot of Syrian women are very educated and pretty much accomplished. I doubt there is gender difference in the level of education in Syria and I believe women in general are pretty respected. Texts remain texts and open to interpretation but what really take place is something different.”
I named to you some issues to prove that women were taking the back seat in Islam. You did not go into any of them. You just gave me description of the situation in Syria, which as we know is a country where non-Muslims live. The good situation for some women in Syria is not because of Islam. It is because of many reasons and Islam is not among them. Socialist tendencies of al-Baath has more to do with the progress and educational opportunities for women. Islam in Syria, as i have witnessed my self, has nothing to do with the relative progress Syrian women had known.
July 15th, 2011, 1:13 pm
Tara said:
Why,
I think you have a beautiful mind and it saddens me to hear such a statement. Now, I never said I agreed with you on lots of things and I definitely do not agree with you on this one either.
Where is this lack of compulsion or wise acceptance coming from all of the sudden? Don’t you know Syrians and/ or Lebanese are born stubborn? Mamenhebaks certainly do not just want to talk to themselves, it can become very boring. We need to mix some Chanel and Prada, and may be an Iranian outfit too. Don’t you think?
July 15th, 2011, 1:14 pm
why-discuss said:
Tara
The lassitude of observing a growing complacency in ugly feelings. That’s a disease I refuse to catch.
Until it calms down, I’ll remain in my “why discuss” state of mind.
July 15th, 2011, 1:26 pm
Syria no kandahar said:
Not only Hama has become Syria’s Kandahar,if you read SC today you feel you are in Kandahar.Shami is so proud of sex,that is why ?????? ??????? ????? and Egypt has one million newborns every year and Syria more than half a millions every year,you need thousands of Ehsani to find jobs and food for them,els they will demonstrate and shout ???? ??????.for god sake 1400 years ago saying ???? ?? ??? ?????? was ok,you didt need diapers and college and…1400years ago saying ????? ???? ????? ????? was ok,now you can’t even survive with one…why don’t just get a life and help yourself a bit and make next Friday ???? ????? ??????
July 15th, 2011, 1:26 pm
Akbar Palace said:
You’re wrong. Of those that believe this, “jihadists”, as you put it, make up .01%.
Amnesia,
I didn’t propose a percentage like you, because I don’t know it. Where did you get “0.01”.
If you had spent those years reading the history instead of the propaganda, it would be “clear as day” why Arabs feel this way.
I have been reading “why Arabs feel this way”, and I understand it. But as I have said before, it is time to “build a bridge and get over it”. That is, if peace is what you’re really looking for.
If you’re looking for resistance, then there is nothing I can do.
This discussion is not what you need. You need some good books to read.
Amnesia,
What I need is a vacation!
July 15th, 2011, 1:31 pm
mjabali said:
Mr. Revelon comment number 273
Mr. Revelon, thanks for the reply.
First you said that : “First, nothing is compulsory in religion.” You are probably referring to the phrase: ” ??????? ?? ?????”. I see your statement in contradiction with the practices of Islam from day one and from other notions in Islam that says the opposite. for example; in Surat al-Tawbah:
?????????? ????????? ??? ??????????? ????????? ????? ??????????? ??????? ????? ???????????? ??? ??????? ??????? ??????????? ????? ?????????? ????? ???????? ???? ????????? ???????? ?????????? ?????? ????????? ??????????? ??? ???? ?????? ??????????
so, if this does not instruct the Muslims to force the non-Muslim, what do you call compulsory.
I can find you many more examples from al-Quran that shows you that others has to be and behave in a certain way.
AS for inheritance and women, al-Quran says it plain and clear that the male has two folds more than the woman.
AS for beating them up, I and you of course, know that domestic violence is not due to religion or race, But, Muslim men use the verse from the Quran that says you can beat them ????????. I have friends who worked in domestic violence cases and told me about the troubles they had with mosques and clerics trying to inform them of the dangers of this practice and how the clerics always try to shove things under the rug. True story.
AS for the definition of Ghulman is known and not a secret: they are young male slaves.
In paradise you said that they serve the believers wine. That is a form of slavery. Here I would like to ask you: wouldn’t the believers be disobeying Allah by drinking wine? aren’t they supposed not to touch it?
AS for the Gayness of the description of these young male slaves in al-Quran: tell me what do you think when al-Quran describes these young male slaves as Precious Pearls ????? ???? ?????? why to describe them as Pearls? if that is not gay please tell me.
Islam, in general, always tried to hide the issues of sexuality and the body. They do not want to talk about it. That is why they will always be against sexual education classes.
AS for your paradise, you said that the requirements are to not worship anyone else other than Allah and to “Act decently,” here i would like to ask you; what if there is someone who act decently but worships no one, no Allah or other ones, does this person go to “paradise?”
Thanking you in advance mr. Revelon
July 15th, 2011, 1:53 pm
Nour said:
?? ?????? ?????? ???????
??? ?????? ??? ?????? ??? ??? ??? ???? ??????? ??????? ???????? ????? ??????? ???????? ???? ???? ???? ???? ?????? ?? ??????? ??????? ????????? ?? ?????? ??? ?????? ????????. ???? ???? ????? ??? ???????? ??????? ???????? ?????? ??? ?????? ?????. ??? ?????? ?? ??? ?? ??? ??????? ???????? ??? ???????? ?????????? ???? ??? ???????? ???? ????? ??? ????? ???? ??????? ????????? ??????? ???? ??? ?????? ????? ?? ?????? ???? ???????? ???? ??? ??????? ??????? ???? ????? ?? ?????? ??????? ??? ?? ????????? ????? ?? ????? ?????? ????? ??????? ??? ??????. ???? ???????? ???????? ?? ??????? ???????? ?????? ??????? ?? ?????? ?????? ?????? ??? ??????. ???????? ?????? ?? ??? ???????? ????? ???? ????? ?? ??????? ????? ??????? ?????? ????? ??? ????? ?????? ?????? “??????? ??????” (????? 1: 16).
???? ?? ?? ??? ?? ????? ?????? ??? ?????? ??????? ?????? ??????? ???????? ?? ?????? ???? ???? ???? ??????? ?? ????? ?? ????? ???????? ?????? ?????? ?? ????? ????? ???????? ??????? ???? ?????? ??? “???????” ??? ???????? ??? ???????? ?? ??????? ??????? ??????? ???????. ???? ?? ??? ???? ???? ????? ??? ??? ??????? ???????? ???????? ???? ??? ???? “??????” ???? ?? ???? ??????? ??????? ??? ????? ???????. ???? ??? ??????? ??? ????: {??????? ?? ???? ???? ????? ????????? ??? ??????} (??????: 190) ????? ?????? ?????? ??????? ????? ?????? ???????? ??????. ??????? ??? ??????? ?? ?????? ?????? ??????? ?? ??? ?? ??? ?????? ??????? ??? ????? ?? ??? ???? ????? ????? ?????? ?????? ????? ?? ????? ?????? ????? ?? ?? ??? ???? ????? ??????? ???????? ??? ????????? ?????? ?? ????? ???? ?? ???? ?? ????? ??????? ???????? ??????? ?? ?????? ??? ???? ???????? ?????? ???? ???????.
??? ???? ???? ?? ?????? ?????? ?? ????? ????? ?????. ?????: ????? ????? ???? ?? ???? ???? ???? ?????? ??? ?????? ??????? ??????? ?????? ???? ????? ????? {??? ?????? ????????? ??????? ?? (??????) ?????? ??????} (???? ???????: 52).
???? ??? ????? ??????? ?? ?????? ????? ???? ????? ??? ?? ????? ????? ?????? ????? ?????? ????? ??? ???? ?????? ???????? ????? ???????? ?? ???? ???? ???? ?? ???? ???? ????? ???? ?????? ??????? ??? ?????? ???? ?????? ?? ????? ?????? ?? ????? ?????? ????? ???? ?????: {??? ?????? ??? ???? ?? ?????? ????????} (??????: 190).
??? ???? ?? ???? ?? ???? ?? ??? ????? ?? ?????? ??????? ?? ??????? ???????? ?????? ???????? ?????? ???????? ???????. ???? ??????? ??? ?? ??? ??? ?????? ?? ?? ??? ???? ????? ??????? ??????? ?????. ????? ??????? ???? ????? ???? ???? ?? ???? ???????? ?????? ??????????? ????? ?????? ??????? ?????? ???? ?? ?????? ?????? ???????? ?? ????????.
??? ?????? ???? ???? ???? ???? ??? ??? ???? ??????? ??? ???: {???????? ??? ???????? ???????? ?? ??? ??????? ??????? ???? ?? ????? ??? ???????? ??? ?????? ?????? ???? ???????? ??? ??? ??????? ???????? ???? ???? ????????. ??? ?????? ???? ???? ????? ?????. ???????? ???? ?? ???? ???? ????? ?????? ??? ??? ?????? ??? ????? ???? ??? ?????????} (??????: 191 ?192 ?193). ???? ?????? ???? ????? ?? ?????? ??? ???????? ???? ???????? ?????? ??? ??? ????? ????????. ?????: “????? ?????????” ???? ????? ????? ????? ?????? ?????? ??????? ???????? ??? ??? ?? ??????? ?????? ?????.
??? ??? ??????? ????????? ???????? ??????. ??? ??? ?????? ???????? ???? ?? ?????: “?????? ???? ?? ?????”. ??????? ??? ????? ??????? ???????? ?? ????. ????? ???: {???????? ?? ??? ???????}. ???? ??? ?????? ???? ??????? ?????: {???????? ???? ?? ???? ???? ????? ?????? ???} ?? ?????? ???????? ???? ??????? ??????? ??????? ??? ???? ??????? ??? ????? ???????. ???? ??? ????? ??? ?? ??? ???? ??? ?????? ?????? ???? ??? ?????? ??? ?????? ??????? ??????? ??????? ?? ????? ?????: {?? ????? ??????? ???? ??????? ??? ???? ????? ?? ?????? ??????} (????: 15) {??? ?????? ?????? ?????? ?????? ?? ?????? ?????? ?? ????? ??? ?????? ???????? ????????} (?????: 83) ???? ?????. ??? ?????? ???? ?????? ?? ????? ?????? ????? ??????? ???? ??????.
?????? ?????? ??? ?????? ?? ?????? ???? ?????. ????: {?? ????? ?? ?????? ?? ????? ?????? ?? ????? ??? ???? ????????? ????? ????? ???} (??????: 256) ?? ??? ????? ?? ?????? ??? ??????? ?? ??? ?????? ????????. ????? ??? ??? ????? ?????? ???: {??????? ?? ?????? ?????? ???? ??? ?? ???? ??? ???? ???? ?? ???? ???? ???? ?? ??????? ?????? ?????? ???? ??? ???? ??? ???? ??????? ???? ?? ????? ??? ?????? ????????? ???? ??????? ?? ????? ?? ???????? ??? ????? ???? ?? ???? ???? ??? ???? ?????? ???? ??????? ?? ??????? ??????? ?????? ????? ?????? ?? ???? ??????} (??????: 217). ??? ??? ??? ????? ??????? ??????? ??? ??? ???? ????? ????? ?????? ???????? ?????? ??????? ???????? ?? ?????? ??????? ??? ????? ???? ?????? ????? ???? ??? ??? ??????. ????? ???? ??? ???? ?????????? ?????? ????????? ??? ??? ????? ?????? ???????? ??? ??? ????????? ?????? ?????? ????? ????? ???? ????? ????. ???? ?? ???? “????????” ???? ???? ??? “??????” ????? ??? ??? ???????: {?? ?????? ???? ?? ?????? ?? ???????? ?? ?????? ??? ??????? ?? ?????? ?? ??????? ??????? ????? ??? ???? ???? ???????? ????? ?????? ???? ?? ?????? ??????? ?? ?????? ???????? ?? ?????? ??????? ??? ??????? ?? ??????? ??? ??????? ?????? ?? ?????????} (????????: 8 ?9) ????? ????? ??????? ?? ???? ?? ???? ???????? ?? ?????? ????? ?? ???????? ???????? ??? ????????? ?????? ???? ??? ??????? ???????? ??? ????? ?????? (??????). ??? ????? ????? ??????? ??????? ?? ???????? ??????? ???? ?? ?? “????? ?? ?????” ?? ???.
????? ??????? ??????? ????? ????? ?????? ??? ????? ??????? ??????? ???? ???? ???????? ?? ???? ????. ?????? ??????? ????? ????? ?????? ?????? ???????. ???? ????? ?????? ??? ?? ??????? ???? ????? ??? ??? ??????? ??? ?? ??? ????? ???? ?????? ?? ???? ????? ????? ??????? ??? ?????? ?? ?????? ????? ??? ????? ???? ???????? ??? ????? ????????? ?? ????? ??? ??? ??????? ??? ???? ??? ??????. ???? ???????? ???? ??????? ??? ?? ???? ?? ???? “???????” ??? ??????? ?? ????? ?????? ??? ??? ?????? ??? ????? ???????. ???? ?? ?????? ????? ?????? ????? ???? ?????? ?????? ?????? ???? ?? ???? ???? ???? ???? ???? ????? ??????? ?? “???????” {?? ????? ?????? ????? ?????? ???? ?????? ??? ?????? ??? ????? ??????} (???????: 20) ?????? {?? ????? ?????? ????? ???????? ??? ??????? ??? ????? ??? ?????? ???} (???????: 24) ???? ????? ?? ???????: {?? ????? ?????? ????? ?? ?????? ???? ???????? ??????? ???????? ????? ??????} (???????: 27).
????? ??????? ?? ??? ?????? ??? ??? ??????? ????? ??? ???? ?????? ??????? ????? ?? ?????? ?????: {?? ?????? ????? ?? ?????? ???? ??? ?? ?? ??? ??? ?????? ??? ??? ???? ???????. ???????? ???? ?? ???? ????? ????? ?????? ???? ??? ??? ?????? ???? ???? ??? ?????? ????} (???????: 28 ?29).
???? ????? ?????? ?????? ??????? ???????? ?? ??????? ???? ???????? ?????? ???? ???????? ??? ????? ?? ??????? ?????? ??? ?? ??? ??? ?????? ?????? ??????? ???? ???? ??????? ?????? ?????????. ????? ???? ?????? ???? ???????? ????????? ?????? ???? ?????? ??? ????? ????? ?? ????????. ?? ???? ?????? ???? ?????? ??????? ??? ?????? ???? ???? ?????? ???? ?????? ??????. ???????? ?? ?????? ?????? ???? ???? ?? ?????? ????? ????? ?? ???? ???? ?????? ??? ????? ?? ???? ?????? ??? ?????? ?? ?????? ???? ???? ?????? ??????? ??? ??????? ?????? ?? ?????? ????? ???? ?????? ?????. ?????????? ?? ??? ??? ????? ???? ?????? ??? “??? ??????” ????? ???????? ???? ????? ???? ???? ?????? ????? ?????? ?????? ????? ???? ?? ?? ??? ?? ??? ??????? ???? ??????? ??? ??????? ????? ??????? ??? ??? ????? ??????? ??????? ??? ??????? ?????? {?? ????? ???? ????? ?????? ???? ????? ?????? ??? ?????? ???? ??? ??? ????????} (????: 9) ???? ????? ?????? ?? “?????” ??? “??????”. ???? ??? ????? ?? ???? ??? ??????? ???????? ??? ???? ?? ?? ???? ?? ???? ??? ????? ???? ?????? ???? ??????? ???? ????? ???? ?????? ??????? ???????? ?????? ???????? ?????? ????? ??? ?????? ?? ???? ???? ????????? ?????? ???? ??? ???? ?????? ???? ????? ?????? ?????? ???????? ???? ??????? ????????? ??? ??? ?????? ????? ?? ??? ????????? ????? ??? ???? ???? ?????? ??????? ???? ???? ???????? ?????? ??????. ??? ???? ?????? ?????? ???? ????? ??????? ????? ???????.???? ?????? ?????? ??????? ???? ??? ??????? ???????? ??????? ??? ???????? ?????? ?? ?????? ???? ?????: {??? ???? ????? ?? ???????? ?????? ???????? ???? ??? ?????? ??????? ?? ???? ???? ??????? ??????? ????? ???? ????? ?? ??????? ???????? ??????? ??? ???? ????? ?? ???? ???} (??????: 111) ??? ???? ?? ?? ????? ???? ?? ??????? ???????? ???? ????. ??? ?????? ?? ???? ????? ???? ???? ?????? ???? ????? ???? ???? ???? ???????? ???? ????? ??? ???? ??????? ??? ??? ???????? ?? ?? ???? ?? ???? ???? ??? ?? ??? ????. ???? ??? ???? ???? ????? ??? ???? ??? ???? ?????? ?????. ?????? ???: {???????? ???? ?????? ??????? ???? ??? ???? ?? ???? ??? ???? ???? ???? ?? ?????? ??????? ???? ??????? ??????? ??? ????? ?????? ???} (??????: 85).
??????? ?? ??? ?????? ?? ??????? ???? ?????? ?????? ????? ?? ??? ?????? ???????. ??????? ???? ?????? ????? ?????? ???? ?????? ??? ??????. ??????? ?????? ???? ????? “??????? ?? ?????”? ??? ??? ?? ???? ?? ????? “??? ??????”? ???? ???? ????? ?? ????? ???? ???? ???? ??? ?????? ?????? ????? ?? ???? ?????? ????? ????????? ?????? ?? ???? ????? ???????? ??????? ?????? ?????? ????? ????? ??? ?? ??????. ??? ?? ???? ?????? ??? ???? ????? ????? ?? ???? ?????
???? ??? ??????? ??????? ????? ??????? ???? ?????? ??????? ?????? ???? ????? ????????? ?? ???????? ????????? ????? ????? ??????? ?? ????? ??????? ???????
????? ?? ????? ?????? ?? ????? ?????? ?????? ??? ????? ?????? ??????? ?? ??? ???? ?? ??????: ???? ????? ??????. ??? ?? ????? ?? ??? ????????? ??????? ???????? ????????? ??? ?? ????? ???????? ???????? ?????: {??? ????? ??? ???? ???????} (?? ?????: 19) ????? {??? ???? ??? ??????? ????? ??? ???? ??? ??? ?? ?????? ?? ????????} (?? ?????: 85) ??? ??? ??? ?? ???????? ????????? ???????? ??? ?????? ??????????? ?? ????? ??? ?????? ?????????? ????? ????? ??? ????? ?????? ????? ????? ????????? ??? ???? ????? ????????? ??????? ?? ?????? ??????? ?????? ???? ?????? ????? ???? ?????? ????. ???????? ????? ?????? ?? ??? ?? ?????? ??? ?? ???? ?? ???????? ??????? ?????? ??? ??? ????? ?? ?? ???? ??????.
???? ?? ??? ?????? ?????? ??????? ?????? ?? ?????? ?????? ???? ?? ??????. ??? ?????? ?? ?????? ??? ????????.
??? ?? ??????: {??? ???? ???????? ??? ????? ??? ???? ???? ?????} (????????: 21) ??? ?? ????? ????? ??????. ????? ?????????: “??? ?? ????? ?? ??? ????” ????? ???? ???? ?????? ?????? ??? ?????? ?? ???? ??? ????.
?? ?????: “??????? ????????? ????? ?????? ??? ??? ????? ??????? ????????? ?????? ???? ?? ????? ????? ??????? ???? ?? ???? ?? ???? ?????? ??? ???? ??????? ??? ????? ???????” (?????? ??????? ?77) ?? ??? ???????? ?? ?????? ?? ????? ??????? ?????????? ?? ?? ???? ??????? ???? ????. ????? ????? “?? ???? ??? ???? ??? ??? ????? ????? ??? ?????? ?????????” (? 149 ?? ??????) ??? ???? ??? ???? ??? ??? ??????? ???????? ?? ????? ???? ?? ???? ???????? ?????? “?? ??? ?? ????? ????? ?????? ???? ?? ??????” (?? 13: 17) {???? ???? ?? ??? ???? ?????? ?????? ???? ??????. ??? ????? ??? ?? ????? ???? ????? ????? ?????? ????? ???? ????? ??????? ??????? ?????? ???? ??? ?? ????????. ????? ?? ?????? ??? ?????? ???????? ?? ????? ??????? ?????? ??????? ????????. ??????? ??? ?? ????? ????? ????? ?????? ???????? ???? ?? ????? ??????} (?????: 3 ? 6) {???? ????? ?? ???????? ?? ??? ?????? ??? ????? ????? ????? ?????????} (????????: 105) ???? ????: {??? ???? ????? ????? ???? ?????? ????????? ??????????? ?? ????? ??? ?????? ?????? ?? ????? ????????? ??? ????? ????? ????? ??? ??????????? ?? ??? ????? ????? ???????? ?? ?????? ?? ????? ??? ??? ??? ??? ?????? ?? ????????} (?????: 55) ????? ??? ??? ??????? ???? ??? ????? ?????? ?? ???????? ????????? ??? ??? ?? ???? ?? ??? ?? ??????? ??? ???? ?????? ?? ??? ???? ??? ??????? ???????? ???? ??? ????? ???? ???? ??? ?? ???? ????? ?????? ?? ??? ????? ?????? ??? ???? ???? ????? ????? ???? ?????? ????? ???? ????. ????? ???? ?? ??? ????? ????? ???? ?????? ??????? ????: {???? ????? ?????? ????? ??? ?????? ????? ???? ??? ?????? ????? ??????? ???? ??? ?????? ????? ????? ???? ???????? ??????. ?????? ????? ??? ????? ????? ???? ??????? ????? ?????? ?? ?????? ??? ???? ???? ??? ????????} (?????: 73 ?74) ?????? ?? ????? ?????? ???????? ?? ??????? ????????? ?? ????? ?? ?????. ???? ????? ?????? ?? ????? ????? ????? ?? ????? ?????? ??? ??? ???? ??? ?????. ???? ???? {??????? ????? ??????? ???????? ?????? ?? ?????? ???? ???? ??? ??? ???? ??????} (???????: 37) ??? ?? ???? ?????? ?????? ?? ???????? ??? ???? ???? ?????? “???? ???? ???? ????? ?????? ?? ?????? ?????? ?????? ???? ????? ????” (????? 11 ? 43). ??? ?? ??? ???? ?????? ??? ??? ???? ??????? ?????? ?????? ??? ????? ?????? ???? ??? ??? ???? ????? ??? ????? ?? ???? ??????? ??? ?? ??? ??????? ?????? ?????? ??????? ??? ???? ??????. ??????? ?? ?????? ??????? ???? ???? ??? ???????? ????? ????? ????????? ?? ?????? ???? ????? ?? ???????? ????????? ??????? ?????? ???? ???? ???????? ????? ??????? ???????? ??? ??????? ?? ??? ????? ???????? ?? ?????. ??? ??? ???? ????? ???? ??? ?? ????? ????????? ???? ??? ??? ???? ?? ??? ??? ??????? ?????? ??????? ????? ?? ??? ???? ??????? ??? ??? ??????? ??????? ?????? ??????. ??? ????? ??????. ???????? ?? ???? ?? ??? ????? ????? ????????? ?? ??? ??? ?????? ?????? ?????? ???????? ?????? ??? ???? ??????? ?????? ????? ???????? ??? ????? {??? ??? ??? ???? ?????? ????? ?????? ?????? ?? ??? ???? ??????? ????? ???? ???? ???????? ???? ??? ???????} (?????: 1 ?2 ?3). ??? ??? ????? ??? ??? ????? ?????? ?? ??? ???? ????? ????? ??????? ?? ?????? ???? ????? ??????? ????? ?? ?????? ?????? ??? ????? ????? ???????? ?????????? ??????? ???? ????? ??????? ?? ??????. ??? ??? ?? ???? “?????” ??? ????: {??? ???? ?????? ????? ???? ?????? ????????? ??????????? ?? ????? ??? ?????? ?????? ?? ????? ????????? ??? ????? ????? ????? ??? ??????????? ?? ??? ????? ????? ???????? ??? ?????? ?? ????? ??? ??? ??? ??? ?????? ?? ????????} ?? ??? ??????? ??? ?????? ???? ????????? ?? ??? ???????? ??????? ???? ??? ???? ?????? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ????? ???? ??????? ?? ??????: {????? ????? ??? ????? ?????? ????? ????? ????? ??? ??????? ?????} (???????: 3). ?????? ????? ???? ??? ?? ????? ?????? ????? ????? ???????? ???????? ??????? ?? ?????? ?????? ????? ???????? ???????.
July 15th, 2011, 2:06 pm
Aboud said:
@271 “Until August 2nd when the US will officially declare bankruptcy ”
So, your plan is to wait things out until the USA and Europe go bankrupt?
And they have to nerve to call the opposition the side with no plan……
July 15th, 2011, 2:06 pm
why-discuss said:
MJABALI
#283
I agree. It is irritating to see how some people attempts desperately to edulcorate their religion when they realize the wrong it has and is still doing to people. If they only admitted that all religions are linked to a historical and societal context and until they are re-interpreted in light of the values of the modern world, they will continue to oppress and harm people. Of course for many, re-interpreting the teachings of the holy books is a sin, so they prefer to stagnate by covering up the objectable issues and therefore prevent the society for moving forward in a freedom of thinking.
July 15th, 2011, 2:31 pm
Tara said:
MJABALI,
I do not have answers for you in regard to specific verses. I agree with why-discuss that religions are linked to historical and societal context and re-interpretation by modern scholars are needed. I urge you though to consider that this problem is relevant to all holly texts including the old and new Testaments and not specific to Quraan. I am not in a position to bring you specific example as my speciality is not in comparative relegion analysis but I believe that this is a known fact. Additionally, what is more important is the concept taught rather than the literal interpretation. The concept I was taught as a sunni raised in Damascus was of tolerance and humanity.
July 15th, 2011, 4:28 pm
Tara said:
Why@ 281
Your first statement is difficult to understand even after few hours. Can you explain?
July 15th, 2011, 4:38 pm
Tara said:
AFRAM
Hi. Who are you? Syrian?, Non-Syrian? I’ve never seen you here before. But welcome.
The link you provided me is irrelevant. I know everything need to be known about Islam. It is a religion that provides me and many billions with peace of mind and soul and I do not need to read any good or bad review about it or about any other religion for that matter.
And by the way, you can be secular and believe in a religion at the same time. Difficult concept?
July 15th, 2011, 4:53 pm
Aliccie said:
My god, you\’re all talking about religion, religion, religion to get solutions for todays ills.
For your (whatever) god\’s sake, can\’t you accept that the most modern (not really america but including it) and progressive societies today do not base their laws on religious texts or doctrine ?
If the ME is so wanting for democracy and \’freedom\’, they must, and it\’s an obligation, look to these most progressive states. These are France, Belgium, Holland, Denmark Sweden, Finland, Canada, Switzerland, Italy, Luxembourg, New Zealand, GB, most of eastern Europe, Russia, Japan, etc etc.. These countries have fought against religion and have managed their compromises but ALL have civil and not religious laws.
And to my limited knowledge this has been relative to their adoption of some form of democracy.
Now, when we see muslim countries, and the million arguments about their charia laws, or whether they should have \’half democracy\’ or some other compromise, we, in those countries, who are financing them, helping them (at their call), can only laugh and shrug our shoulders and think, just like the tribal wars in Africa, that they are not capable, they are too ignorant and backward to be even capable of wanting such \’freedoms\’.
Now, we see the result of western education, in these countries or literally done in western countries, more technology and better economies, with tons of western help, (or payments for oil,), that these muslim countries have suddenly discovered \’freedom\’ through facebook and twitter and no doubt from many other intellectuals who know about this very problem.
I don\’t want to sound patronizing but quite frankly, the only obstacle to all this \’freedom\’ on the horizon is pride.
And this \’pride\’ has always been galvanized by religious preachers and used tribal stuff, (that the west has no knowledge of and can\’t understand it), to mobilize their troups and keep muslim countries in an eternal fight against their \’externel enemies\’ = the west. While hypocritically accepting their advantages.
Now it\’s surely time to say stop to all this and be honest and denounce these fear mongerers that simply use the anti west and anti jew arguments to keep their populations \’united\’ against the \’common enemy\’.
Good grief, can\’t people see that it\’s all a game and right from the imam, the sheik whatever, to the almighty dictator, all is based on the ignorance of the population that have their brains hanging out towards some god or some book or some interpretation of it.
It\’s time to look to real science and modern thinking. To realize what psychological brainwashing means, how children\’s brains are moulded from birth, never to be free.
Fight for the real freedom, freedom of indoctrination and get it right up on the human rights charter.
In the mean time any gvt worthy of its name should get compulsory sexual education into all schools and on medias and in clinics etc. That people realize what sexuality means and that it\’s also part of freedom of the individual, not a bit of doctrine in an old MALE preacher\’s sermon.
MJABALI = someone of sense.
July 15th, 2011, 5:32 pm
Aliccie said:
@ Tara,
you say “I urge you though to consider that this problem is relevant to all holly texts including the old and new Testaments and not specific to Quraan.-
I don\’t know where you live, but what you say is not relevant to many countries who are not under religious domination. The only religion today that influences politics (or society, famine, wars, massacres) is islam.
Even if there are other interpretations as you say, for other books, and that is important, for the scolars and the pious and the fanatics, whoever they are, mainly they don\’t have a big influence in democratic countries. (One country all who talk about Israel, who has an important orthodox element, might be an exception ? ).
If you look at the most religiously influenced countries they are all backward and poor (except from those who have oil, and they use foreigners as slaves with no rights to run their economy) They have huge problem of numerous children, unemployment, poverty…
No interpretation of texts has found a solution to these ignorant and criminel (in my mind) preachers of these religions.
July 15th, 2011, 6:25 pm
why-discuss said:
Abboud
Contrary to you, I think the opposition groups are smaller and more spread within the country.. They are also heavily infiltrated with thugs who are breaking cars and threatening shop owners.
I think this is a sign of a renewed fury because they are just getting taps on the back from the US ( Bravo, Bravo.. go on…) and nothing more from the international community.
The opposition has no choice than to enter into a dialog: Libyans rebels after having NATO destroy their country are now going to sit and dialog with Kadafi….
The Syrian opposition will be obliged to do that, sooner or later. Why wait that people are killed and the country destroyed?
July 15th, 2011, 6:33 pm
Amnesia said:
Hi Palace,
You indicated that extremists are the only ones that see all of Israel as Palestine, alluding that the idea itself is extreme and not mainstream. It is, though, very mainstream.
I’m glad you understand, if you do. Your comments indicated otherwise.
Personally, I am all for moving on. Society cannot function like this, but the crux of responsibility is on Israel to admit its wrongs and stop dilly-dallying when it comes to making peace.
When I speak to Arabs (Muslims and Christians) and other Muslims, I convince them that peace is what’s needed. When I speak to Israeli propagandists, I cannot back down from what is just.
July 15th, 2011, 6:36 pm
Aboud said:
@292 “They are also heavily infiltrated with thugs who are breaking cars and threatening shop owners.”
Proof please (funny how everytime I ask for an itsy bit of proof to the most outlandish statements, they never repeat them. If I do that enough times they eventually give up on this website LOL!)
“I think this is a sign of a renewed fury because they are just getting taps on the back from the US”
Amateur psychology that’s as accurate as anything else we’ve seen from the regime. The revolution was going strong even when everyone (including junior) thought that the US was secretly hoping he’d pull through. Ford came to Hama because they were coming out in their hundreds of thousands. Hamawis were not coming out in such multitudes because of Ford’s visit.
“The opposition has no choice than to enter into a dialog”
Uh….no. We have different options, we proved it this Friday. 1 million people today told junior where he could stick his fake dialogue. How can anyone have a dialogue with people who imprison patriotic Syrians like Najati Tayara? He’s been in jail for over two months just because he talked to news channels.
July 15th, 2011, 6:44 pm
Akbar Palace said:
Amnesia,
Thanks for the feedback.
I’m still a bit confused. In post #276 you said…
You’re wrong. Of those that believe this, “jihadists”, as you put it, make up .01%.
…when I said “there are the jihadists/Islamic fundamentalists here and throughout the ME who believe all of Israel is “Palestinian Land”…”
Now you are saying (Post #293) that it is “very mainstream”:
You indicated that extremists are the only ones that see all of Israel as Palestine, alluding that the idea itself is extreme and not mainstream. It is, though, very mainstream.
I’m glad you are for “moving on”. I am too. However, you have confirmed that rejecting Israel entirely is mainstream, therefore, I doubt that a final settlement is possible.
I posted a video today of Charley Rose’s interview with Bashar Assad from just last year. President Assad said the greatest threat to the region was “The Occupation©”. IMHO, we are seeing the greatest threat to the ME: Arab Depotism.
As more Syrians are dying from Syrian bullets, I see the rejectionists resorting to the only thing they know: Jewish Conspiracy Theology. It’s pretty sad from my point-of-view.
But I am optimistic. The region will come out of this better. Better for Syria, and better for the region.
July 15th, 2011, 7:04 pm
Aliccie said:
@ why-discuss
“I think this is a sign of a renewed fury because they are just getting taps on the back from the US ( Bravo, Bravo.. go on…) and nothing more from the international community.
Well, well, ‘the international community’. how funny, ‘cos everyone is saying ‘no’ to foreign influence.. Make up your mind.
“The opposition has no choice than to enter into a dialog: Libyans rebels after having NATO destroy their country are now going to sit and dialog with Kadafi….
Ha ha, show me the destruction of Nato forces compared to that of Kadafi, you’re joking surely. If they dialogue with K and his family it’s only because they are running round the whole world trying to get a ‘deal’ without being arrested…
As for negotiations in Syria, it’s a different story, for the moment, and I agree with you.
July 15th, 2011, 7:08 pm
why-discuss said:
Alicie
I agree with you in many ways, but there is a inherent need in human being for spirituality. Unfortunately most religions who were supposed to fulfill this needs have been hikacked and transformed into tools of manipulation.
Religions have not disappeared in the developed countries, they have been put aside from the political sphere because the harm they have caused outweighted the good. Yet they continue to influence tremendously most countries supposed to be secular.
The Soviet union that had barred religion has now a booming church.
In Islamic countries, it would be much more difficult to put Islam aside as, like the Jewish religion, it provides(dictates) the everyday ritual in lots of details, it provides societal laws, behavior requirements, taboos, in addition to its spiritual content.
I think religiously ruled Sunni countries (Saudi Arabia) are more exposed to rigidity because the interpretation of the holy books are strictly forbidden and the religious scholars are funded by the state. In Shia ruled countries (Iran, Iraq), interpretation is allowed, encouraged and done by religious scholars funded by the people and “independant” from the State. This is why Shia laws on women, heritage etc..are in constant adaptation to the modern realities.
To allow the society to evolve, secularism is an absolute necessity in Sunni countries (Turkey). This is not as necessary in Shia countries because the adaptation of the religion to the laws of democracy make the society evolution possible (but slower) while staying within the religion.
Because Syria was ruled by the Alawites, there has never been any temptation to bring Islam in the law system. This is why Syria is a secular country. The same with Lebanon. All other Sunni Arab countries have the Sharia in the background of the society laws. This will certainly be an issue should Syria becomes controlled by a Sunni majority. Islam may become the state religion and the minorities will need to struggle to retain their own laws.
I don’t trust the reassuring words of the sunni afficionados here, I believe that once the Sunnis take the power, the economically weaken country will get the financial help of Saudi Arabia and will gradually become a small Pakistan with a proliferation of religious medresseh and laws more and more restrictive.
Syrians will wake up to a new reality they never suspected.
This uprising is also about religion, nobody can deny it.
July 15th, 2011, 7:16 pm
why-discuss said:
Alicie
Who is saying no to foreign interference? Hama? Is this why they throw flowers and welcome a yankee who condones the occupation of part of their country. They got the media, a tap on the back, a facebook note, Hillary outrage and bye!
I am correcting: NATO AND the rebels AND the loyalists have destroyed the country in 4 months of confrontation.
They will end up by sitting with Kadafi’s envoy because the international community sees no end to that useless and costly destructions.
As I said Hama is not Benghazi, Homs square is not Tahreer square and no one will bomb the Syrian army that, curiously, the anti-regime commenters here respect and trust. Is it the Egyptian syndrome or the emergency floater?
July 15th, 2011, 7:34 pm
aliccie said:
@why discuss – 297 –
Well thanx for the long reply
Yes it’s a complicated question..
Your “but there is an inherent need in human being for spirituality’, I disagree. Can you prove this ? What does ‘inherent” mean ? apart from indoctrination from birth of irrational beliefs ?
What do the neurosciences say ? Be at least scientific, and use whatever (little, I think) sciences have to say plus the intellectuals who from the enlightenment, refused this argument.
“Religions have not disappeared in the developed countries, they have been put aside from the political sphere because the harm they have caused outweighted the good. Yet they continue to influence tremendously most countries supposed to be secular.”
I never said they didn’t, but I would dissagree to the ‘tremendously’, this would depend on the country. I know France best, and they still do, but very little, I know GB, and it’s still an influence but not ‘tremendously’. In Poland, you would be right. But not in Spain or Italy, previous bastians of Catholic influence. In Europe, our churches are empty, and are only used for music concerts or libraries ..
“The Soviet union that had barred religion has now a booming church”
Well again one must ask for statistics. Of course there are orthodox christians who came out of their soviet era with much bitterness, but frankly, does it affect the politics of Russia today ?
“To allow the society to evolve, secularism is an absolute necessity in Sunni countries (Turkey). This is not as necessary in Shia countries because the adaptation of the religion to the laws of democracy make the society evolution possible (but slower) while staying within the religion.”
Ok, I suppose you’re thinking about Iran with their so called democracy. Well, that’s another debate. And other Shia places, then you think that they can all ‘gradually’ evolve towards democracy ?? Ok, why not..
But those of more modern and impatient desires, must therefore wait for.. how long ???
“(if Sunnis get power), Islam may become the state religion and the minorities will need to struggle to retain their own laws.”
So if I understand your argument, Sunnis are more dangerous, (because of Saudi influence) that the Shias or other minorites.
Despite what our *Tara* is saying that she is totally tolerant of everyone and peace to all.
I can understand your worries and see this everyday in my TV news, Mumbai today , Afghanistan yesterday, how many deaths because of religious sects ? I don’t know what to think, my head is whirling with the news, so many who die for nothing just a few cents sometimes.. gosh, I think that it’s insolvable and I will continue to hate all religions and denouce them whoever they are, and ‘preach’ for secular societies but not the Ashad or Kaddafi or whatever monarch type.
July 15th, 2011, 8:19 pm
why-discuss said:
Alicie
You are asking me to write a book to reply to your requests for justification for anything I write. I will simply refer you to the basis of anthropology where the need of spirituality and the need of God have existed in the human societies since their creation.
Do your own research. In any case it is my conviction.
As far as the growth of church and Russia and its recognition by the leaders in Russia, you can do your own comparative research but it is a recognized fact.
I have never said Sunnis are dangerous, don’t misquote me!
Extremist Sunnis are dangerous. We have not seen a single al Qaeda terrorist who is Shia. There were all sunnis, coincidence?
Sunni countries that are not secular and have the Sharia inspiring the laws are dangerous, yes, because they reject equality of genders, rights of beliefs etc… and the possibility of slipping into extremism.
For you information I don’t know any other countries, except Iran and Iraq that have a majority of Shias, so your question is irrelevant .
Iran is in a experimental stage of its societal development. My perspective was not about whether it is or will become a “democracy” or not, it was about the difference between Shia’s approaches to their religious laws versus the Sunnis.
I worry about Egypt, Yemen and Syria falling prey to Islamic extremists like it happened in Algeria in 1990.
July 15th, 2011, 9:40 pm
Tara said:
Why
“In Shia ruled countries (Iran, Iraq), interpretation is allowed, encouraged and done by religious scholars funded by the people and “independant” from the State. This is why Shia laws on women, heritage etc..are in constant adaptation to the modern realities.”
can you tell us examples? Interesting that there is no Shiaa terrorist. I never thought of this as related to a particular sect .
July 15th, 2011, 9:43 pm
why-discuss said:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/middle-east-live/2011/jul/15/syria-libya-middle-east-unrest-live
The official said Ford chose to visit Hama because protests there were peaceful. He said he would not travel to Homs because protests had used violence there.
The ambassador chose not to go to Homs because some people of the opposition have used violence there and he can’t condone that. In order for the US to have integrity we cannot condone violence on either side, while recognising that it is the Syrian government that has committed far and away most of the violence.
Professor Lisa Anderson, president of the American University in Cairo, suggests that the crisis in Syria will be protracted because the army is loyal to the regime rather than the state
In a lecture to the LSE, Anderson contrasts the loyalty of the army in Syria to army desertions in Libya and the refusal of the Egyptian army to fire on protesters. She says the key distinction is whether the army is seen as an extension of the regime, as in the case of Syria, or a protector of state as in the case of Egypt.
This is one of the crucial questions… If it [the army] is the agent of the state they are prepared to sacrifice the regime, if they are the agent of the regime they are clearly not.
July 15th, 2011, 10:08 pm
why-discuss said:
Tara
Many Lebanese sunni who had only daughters converted to shia so their daughter could inherit.
Look at the changes of the divorce law in Iran in favor of the wife. Compare then to the Sunni\’s divorce law.
http://www.law.emory.edu/ifl/legal/iran.htm
1992 amendments extend wife?s access to divorce by addition of following grounds: husband?s non-maintenance for up to six months for any reason;( a whole page of reasons …..)
Amendment in 1992l wife may obtain divorce if husband marries without her permission or does not treat co-wives equitably in court?s assessment.
1992 reforms make registration of divorce without court certificate illegal;
1992 amendments extended divorced wife?s financial rights from maintenance during ?idda and deferred dower, to right to claim compensation for household services rendered to husband during marriage.
July 15th, 2011, 10:33 pm
Tara said:
Why,
Interesting, the little I knew. I thought Shiaa has stricter doctrines.
I am tempted now.
July 15th, 2011, 10:46 pm
Aliccie said:
@ why discuss
why discuss in effect. Your feeble effort to defend Iranian and Shia ‘leglislation’ is poor if not sick. Iran (yeah, ‘experimenting in social bla bla’) is a nasty kettle of fish. The beginning of all the islamic revolutions… I as french am totally ashamed that we kept Khomeini in his villa.
Your feeble effort to prove that shia legislation is better than sunni is pathetic. The whole lot are useless because based on ancient outdated texts.
If some poor sunnis ‘convert’ to be able to inherit, well kudos to them. They at least have a bit of sense if that could be the word as for their islamic prison that they are born into.
A few extracts from that website that you didn’t quote :
“1979 Revolution brought end to Pahlavi dynasty (1925-1979). Supreme Judicial Council issued proclamation directing courts that all un-Islamic legislation was suspended. Council given remit to revise all existing laws to Islamise legal system, with Ayatollah Khomeini?s fatawa serving as ?transitional laws?. Vilayat al-faqih.
(Yeah, like ‘Fatwa against Rushdie, ruining a man’s life)
“Marriage Age: Civil Code provides that marriage contracted before puberty is invalid unless authorized by natural guardian with ward?s best interests in mind.? When authorized before puberty, minimum age is nine.
“Marriage Guardianship: marriage of virgin girl (even after puberty) requires permission of father or paternal grandfather; Special Civil Court may grant permission if guardian refuses without valid reason.
“Marriage Registration: Identity Office must be notified of all temporary ( for prostitution ) or permanent marriages and their dissolution.? Marriages between Muslim women and non-Muslim men are not recognized.? Baha?i marriages are not recognized.
“Article 12 provides that official religion is Islam and the twelver Ja?fari school; other schools of law to be accorded full respect and freedom of religious practice, including matters of personal status.”
yet
“Children of Baha?i marriages are not recognized as legitimate and, therefore, are denied inheritance rights.
“Child Custody and Guardianship: mother?s custody ends at 2 years for boys and 7 for girls; custody reverts to father if mother remarries.? Mother may be granted custody in certain cases if the father is proven unfit to care for the child.”
you said do a search, well this if for beginners (obviously)
http://www.politicalislam.com/blog/a-short-overview-of-sharia-law/
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=sunni+sharia+law#hl=en&pq=sunni%20sharia%20law&xhr=t&q=sunni+and+sharia+law&cp=20&pf=p&sclient=psy&source=hp&aq=0&aqi=g1&aql=&oq=sunni+and+sharia+law&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=97eede9ed711c932&biw=894&bih=507
http://www.aim.org/guest-column/sunnis-and-shiites-why-do-they-fight/
http://www.rim.org/muslim/shiite.htm
a christian viewpoint but gives basic origines
“Aside from differing inheritance laws, the Shiite law or Sharia is largely similar to that of Sunni Islam.47
“Some of the other distinctly Shiite beliefs and practices include taqiyah and mutah.52 Taqiyah is when “a man hides his religion or certain of his religious practices in situations that would cause definite or probable danger as a result of the actions of those who are opposed to his religion or particular religious practices.”
“The differences between Shiism and Sunnism are numerous with many details, as well as larger topics such as eschatology and divine justice, left untouched in this article. Though this article has dealt primarily with the beliefs and practice of twelver Shiites, there are also numerous other sects within Shiism such as the Zaydi, Isma`ili, Nizari, Musta`lis, Druze, and Muqanna`ah.56 Some scholars also argue that the Babi, Baha`i, and Batini sects should be considered as derivatives of Shiism, though Shiite scholars such as Allamah Tabatabai say they “should not in any sense be considered as branches of Shiism.”57 However, even the very existence of different sects of Islam ought be viewed as a deep dilemma within Islam in light of Quranic injunction:
July 16th, 2011, 7:17 pm
Tara said:
Aliccie,
Hello. Convictions are convictions. They may not sound logic but that does not even matter. There is in my view no points in highlighting where sects and religions differ as it serves no purpose other than to group people into ” us” and ” others”.
The way I was personally raised in Damascus is that there is no big difference between mainstream Sunni and mainstream Shiaa. There are many cross-marriages between
Sunni and Shiite and I personally would have no problem in the future getting my girl
married to Shiaa. Sunni and Shiaa are two faces of the same coin with some technical difference. If we want our society to advance, we should stop highlighting differences and focus on what unites us together.
July 16th, 2011, 7:40 pm
Aliccie said:
@ tara
well, at least you’re are always so nice and see things in a positive way. Like Catholics and protestants, two sides of that coin, if only this terrible ‘uprising’ today could realize that life is important, and not being a ‘martyr’ to a god is more important. But that’s not the only thing, of course, we know that so much else is involved, and I can only hope, (because I don’t pray), that Syria as all countries will finally get to really feel what freedom is, to walk, to talk, to do, what they wish, without religious or security agents forbidding them !
July 16th, 2011, 8:17 pm
why-discuss said:
Alicie
You are always right, all the way, no use to argue, I knew that from your first message, you are a walking, I would rather say crawling encyclopedia.
July 16th, 2011, 9:22 pm
why-discuss said:
Democracy in steep decline around the world
http://www.thenational.ae/news/worldwide/middle-east/democracy-in-steep-decline-around-the-world?pageCount=0
…But the Arab Spring is, in many ways, a mirage. Several nations in the region may eventually make the transition to democracy – this is hardly assured – but in reality, democracy is faltering throughout the developing world, from Asia to Latin America, from Africa to the former Soviet states.
In its annual survey, the monitoring group Freedom House, which uses a range of data to assess social, political and economic freedoms, found that global freedom plummeted for the fifth year in a row in 2010, the longest continuous decline in nearly 40 years. In fact, there are now fewer elected democracies than there were in 1995…
July 16th, 2011, 10:06 pm
Tara said:
Authoratarian nostalgia? Sounds weird!
The next step would be more fundementalism.
July 16th, 2011, 10:16 pm
why-discuss said:
Egypt Military Moves to Cement a Muscular Role in Government
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/17/world/middleeast/17egypt.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1&hpw
Is this to prevent the take over by the MB or just to keep the military empire created during Mobarak?
The military council governing Egypt is moving to lay down ground rules for a new constitution that would protect and potentially expand its own authority indefinitely, possibly circumscribing the power of future elected officials. ….
July 16th, 2011, 10:21 pm
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