All things being what they are, the current trend in thinking on this subject, from a U.S. citizen, enough is enough. The costs of the war on terror, continues its upward direction, robbing the infrastructure in the U.S. of its much needed rebuilding. Time to let the M.E. sort out the problems, without the U.S.A., that includes cutting off Israel too. After all, what better way to find out who your real friends are, then to let them be, especially with the new U.S.military base in the same area as the aging nuclear reactor that’s over the use by date. If there’s a melt down, or worse, oh well, that’s the price one pays for being sucked in.

memo to 1- Jenya!
It is not objective that the subject of the Kurdish referendum and their situation in Iraq and Syria be subject to heretical talk about the costs of the war on terror & other scarecrows
I want to remind you that any military adventure against the Kurds will end badly for the aggressor and for the region.
be in touch..

# 2 Really? And you speak for the citizens of your present country you reside in? Are we on the same page or are you being subjective?

US support of the Kurds is anti Erdogan only, Erdogan is the reason why US abandoned the Rebels, US will block Iran from HA, by staying there , but I doubt US supports a Kurdistan state for long ,unless they give up on overthrowing Erdogan, so I doubt US will allow a state of Kurdistan.
We grew up considering the Kurds as pro Russia, Khalid Bakdash was Kurd, , Kurdistan is not like Israel, they have little foreign support , they are weak, with no coastal border, their enemies are three major regional power, but I do respect their will to have their independence just like Palestinians, because I support freedom first, the best way to get rid of hate of sectarianism is division, I am Arabic , but freedom comes first before religion , before nationalism. And in the long run Kurds are friendly country , not enemy, as we have a lot in common , just like I support Palestinians to split from Israel , I support the Kurds to split too, it is a matter of principle.

Easy for me to say but I’m with Professor Landis too.

Kurds sense a huge opportunity for self-rule paid for with their courageous opposition to ISIS.

US needs a friendly proxy to help contain Assad and to game out ISIS 2.0 when and where it surfaces.

Even Israel is signaling support.

Biggest risk to this strategy is Kurds’ ability to be good neighbors with indigenous Arabs. Don’t call it Kurdistan and don’t exclude Arabs. Find a better name (Rojava?) and really mean it when you claim all groups are represented.

Phenomenal to see a major super power jerked around and humiliated by a tiny foreign mafia like Israel. Something PROFOUNDLY wrong and disturbing about a citizenry that allows its country to be infiltrated & destroyed rather than risk being name called ,antisemite, for putting a stop to it. What a trade off: Yanks lose their now bankrupt country (broke funding zionist wars to bop Israels M.E. rivals)
— but the consolation prize is? they,re not ,antisemtic, ! its madness

The ethical case for a Kurdish state is stronger than Israel’s. Yes there is a lot of resistance to the idea of a Kurdish state which makes its creation difficult but not impossible. Another issue is the Kurds gradual dominance over oil-rich areas which is another obstacle but they have no real way to export the oil now. Kurds may be able to reach a deal with the regime in Syria and they already have Israeli support. What the Kurds need is US support, if that supports comes their chance will get much better. There are hundred of thousands of Kurds in Syria who have no Syrian roots but they now control areas inhabited by Syrians for centuries. Israel did the same thing in Palestine. A major threat to the Kurdish statehood dream is a possible marriage of covenvienc that may be coming between Syria, Turkey and Iran. Ironically, the Kurds rise provides another opportunity for the regime in Damascus, the question is at what price. Autocratic regimes need two things: to stay in power and to get cash. Public opinion is not a major factor in the decision-making process in governments that do not get elected by people. Yes freedom is the key but religion and freedom do not belong to the same sentence, religion can easily be a form of oppression. Kurds fought Isis and they treat women better than jihadists and Muslim Brothers, they see themselves as a second Israel especially after suffering for centuries from discrimination and oppression by Turks and Arabs.

The one thing that can unite Turkey, Iran, Syria and Iraq are uppity Kurds, and see what already happened: http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/10/erdogan-rouhani-united-opposition-kurdish-state-171004124507138.html

The Americans don’t have as high stakes in this, and that is all that matters. They will be pushed out.

If the Kurds had sided with Assad, their chances would be better. But Erdogan will even make peace with Assad to stop the Kurds.

Listen to the Kurds failed neighbors. A decade of failure and confusion. Palestine did not gather them and not Jerusalem, but to stand against the Kurds. falling nations!

“Time to let the M.E. sort out the problems, without the U.S.A., that includes cutting off Israel too” I agree completely with Eugene, and as well, their European Nato allies should follow this road.
The way the “West” is busy with “regime-change and “sanctions” and bombs, with the rest of the planet is absolutely indecent, vulgar and above all out of date.

“Time to let the M.E. sort out the problems, without the U.S.A., that includes cutting off Israel too” I agree completely with Eugene, and as well, their European Nato allies should follow this road.
The way the “West” is busy with “regime-change and “sanctions” and bombs, with the rest of the planet is absolutely indecent, vulgar and above all out of date.

PS I try to submit my comment, but I get a message that I have already said that, which is not true. ???????

The Kurds should think twice before trying to take a very fertile and rich land that is not theres.

Remember Arbil itself is an Assyrian town…check the name…

Also what the Kurds should think about is the many Kurds that are all over the place outside of Kurdistan.

Damascus has a part called Harat al-Akrad…in the coast we have Jabal al-Akrad…

My point is simple: The Kurds are intermingled with the rest of the people of the area, so if they want to separate they should take into consideration what is there land and what is not, and what is going to happen next.

Iran, Turkey, Syria and Iraq ( Sunnis, Shia, Christians and Turkmen) are unified by there desire to curb the Kurds ambitions.

The future of the area is nothing but confrontations and displacement.

The word Kurdish in Damascus was used as a synonym to describe uncivilised manner of a person or an unfashionable lady dressed in shocking color,or for someone who is really mean.
This characteristic seems to be maintained through the years in a very persistent way,not to mention the historical role of Kurds in the Armenian and assyrian genocide in 1914 is very well documented.
I have no sympathy for land stealers,someone in my family has a part of his land stolen by them,when he failed to travel to look after it after while,and when he tried to claim it,he was threatened by death.
I assume that the whole land now is lost forever.
The American and British invasion in Iraq was a big mistake and the world will be suffering from its results for few more decades,ISIS,Terrorism,Kurdistan in Iraq,Kurdistan in Syria,Kurdistan in Turkey.
More excuse to Arm dealers to produce more weapons and destabilise more nations.

Take your gun, and go fight the Kurds better than trivial talk here, that does not equal the lines it occupies.

“In the mountainous parts there is a race of people named Kurds, some of whom are Christians and others Mohometans. They are all an unprincipled people whose occupation it is to rob merchants.”

The Travels of Marco Polo
by Marco Polo
New American Library, Signet Classics, 1961

Polo passed through the Kurdish areas in 1272. So it seems the reputation of the Kurds goes back a long way.

Antoinetta III

No one here wants to fight the Kurds, Alan, war is just the inevitable outcome of their independence aspirations, and they won’t have the American air force to protect them, as when ISIS attacked them.

“Those who deny freedom to others deserve it not for themselves.” Abraham Lincoln
The world has reached its capacity for getting involved in various fights of freedom & independence and then being blamed when it doesn’t finish with everyone dancing around merrily!

Re: #9 JASMINE

“ot to mention the historical role of Kurds in the Armenian and assyrian genocide in 1914 is very well documented. I have no sympathy for land stealers”

Well said. They are next of the list of SAA.

The Kurds in the ranks of the Syrian Arab Army are the bravest and fiercest fighters. They were also among the most courageous Hezbollah fighters in Lebanon @ 1980s and brought martyrs there. Kurds are always able to underline epics against the hot heads. there is no need for any list. You have to go ahead, why do you talk so much?

American strategists at work. Pity Syria and its neighbours, except of course Israel. And no one even mentions the illegality of interfering and occupying another country. Sickening.

Here it is mentioned by Joshua Landis of: ‘Chemical Bashar?’
It makes me wonder about the work of Joshua Landis. From a forensic point of view there is not one shred of evidence pointing these chemical attacks towards the Syrian government. Sure, there are claims but they all come from Salafist groups and their sponsors in France, the US and elsewhere. Looking in detail at the file one can see that statements as those recently made by the UN and the OPCW are nothing but a pack of claims not based on any scientific evidence. For instance they state they had no control over how the ‘evidence’ got to them. If so then their analysis of this samples is worthless. And they know. In fact all it does is pointing at the other direction. Joshua Landis must know this. Why then this talk of ‘Chemical Bashar’? This story is just another Iraqi WMD. It’s a stain on the work done by Landis.

# 21 Willy, you make sense with the questioning of the “so-called evidence” that the “UN & OPCW” cite, are questionable due to the “chain of evidence”. As for Joshua Landis work, his bringing to print the different points/characters in this “ugly sad drama” that the “idiots” are playing in Syria, especially from the beginning, from his/others perspective, can be interpreted differently or
subjectively depending on ones viewpoint. I’m not defending any part of this history, but I have to give him credit for bringing to light, the different players, which I haven’t seen elsewhere. Just as yours, mine, other commentators, are subjective/opinions hopefully gleaned from information that’s available to cause such, they are just that.

Eugene: In many ways Joshua Landis does an interesting job.
But as far as is known to me he never mentioned the official DIA report dated I guess 2013 on Syria which proves the whole West supported ISIS and wanted them to create a caliphate and invade Iraq in order to further destroy this country. What ISIS afterwards did!
This report also stated al Qaeda were there on the ground in Syria from the beginning in March 2011.
Never mentioning this is a very serious matter when doing research on the subject. And then there is ‘Chemical Bashar’.
Taken together this makes me wonder very much about what he’s up to. Any researcher should stick to the facts, certainly when they are key to understanding the conflict. Not doing so is a mortal sin.
And these latest reports on sarin are one big joke. It’s laughable and from a scientific point of view a huge scandal.

Willy, points well taken, though I’ve been following this column since before 2011, will agree that at times, there is a bias involved. That said, presenting a view that is absent in the U.S.A. on a continual basis, gives readers a choice in which they can interpret what is pertinent to their own viewpoint, not just the official P.R. handed out by the U.S. Government. At least you point out the faults in the reports, but when one considers the picture presented by the various media outlets, said bias rears its ugly head as being one sided. Whether or not you like the coverage, it is up to the individual to make his/her own rational opinion. If you drink the koolaid, what difference does it really make?

Eugene:
Making a good analysis of this war is very difficult but one should consider the main facts that are established to be true. Knowing in wars like this there is so much propaganda, innuendo, distortions and outright lies.
But for instance the question of international law and the legality/illegality of this doesn’t in this debate above come to the forefront. No one of these three mentions it. Isn’t that to say the least very strange? Pointing again to the same bias.
But I agree, this blog is much more interesting then a decade of the NYT on this subject.

Willy, the elephant in the room, “International law and the legality/illegality” of this war, as with the others in the “MENA” will never be brought to fruition due to who the partners are. We can debate/argue until the cows come home, but will still be at a stalemate. 50 years from now, if humanity is still breathing, that is, but that’s another argument that doesn’t make up for the death & destruction that has occurred in the so-called war on terror. As for the U.N./NATO, yes, there is some good, but they have been corrupted to the extent of being out of date useless organizations. The real unanswered question that everyone should be asking/demanding: “who is going to rebuild Syria”? That goes for the rest of the countries that are members of “The Mother of all C-F’s” history has known to date. I realize I’ve ventured astray here, but restraint on the subject does seem impossible.

/The real unanswered question that everyone should be asking / demanding: “who is going to rebuild Syria”?/
Before Moscow asks this question, it has to explain what Syria means, what geography is it talking about, Syrian Grozny or Syrian Belgrade?

Alan, why single out Russia? There’s enough blame to go around, isn’t there? Perhaps Saudi Arabia should pony up that $800 billion the young “King” in waiting, wants to use building a new mega-city in his homeland? After all, those other royal members that are residing in the luxury hotels, having had their bank accounts frozen/seized – ill gotten gains – would make a nice down payment in the rebuilding department. Of course, the profits that the construction companies would incur in the process, should add to the pot, wouldn’t you say?

Eugene: Big countries have big ambitions and big guns. Therefore they usually act like elephants in a shop of china ware. But in the case of the US this might also because the history of the US. One which was bases on random violence against the inhabitants and an endless list of broken promisses towards those people.
And regarding rebuilding, there is a basis principle: Those who break the china ware should pay for it.

Points taken. Promises broken, that’s the new way of doing business from the U.S. Government today. To say the U.S. might be out of control, perhaps is an understatement when one considers the homeland environment in the U.S. today. Incompetence in the planning department due to overconfidence of abilities and underestimating the opposition, like a cancer, plagues the aggressors. At the present time, we can expect more of the same.

If the US stays in Syria without a UN mandate and a Syrian government approval it will be considered an occupying force and will be the target of more Jihadists , it is not our problem to protect the Kurds that are illegal immigrants in Syria from Turkey , a decentralized system with equal rights to all and anti discrimination laws in housing and employment should be our advice and goal for Syria

Kurd means ‘nomad’ or ‘gypsy’ in Farsi. The Kurds originate from north west Persia and have been nomads for centuries. Nowhere in Syria, Turkey and Iraq do the form a majority. Just as the US has no legal right according to international law to be in Syria or Iraq, neither do the Kurds. This whole charade is just another Israeli smoke and mirrors blow job, and you lot have fallen for it hook, line and sinker.
As far as the US writers and commentators on this site are concerned, your actual knowledge of this subject is appallingly poor and based entirely on US misinformation and Israeli brainwashing. It is unlikely that you know that the Rothschild Bank bought Jerusalem off the Ottomans in 1829, though you ought to know Rothschilds hold one third of the shares in the Fed and ninety eight percent of the shares in the Bank of England, so let us wise up a bit about who is actually calling the shots here.
Should the US stay any longer in Syria and Iraq then you will be facing Vietnam 2.0, and you will be fighting it with transgender and girl soldiers this time. You will be slaughtered where you stand.
Quite simply the US, as everyone knows but won’t admit, funded, armed and provided support for ISIS, Al Qeada and Al Nusra and has no legitimate right to be in Syria. Any idea that opposes this comes from people who can only be termed ignorant, arrogant and stupid.
So why does the Rothschild Bank want to destroy the US with the idiotic policies? This is the real question! And why does Rothschilds want Vietnam 2.0 in Syria/Iraq? Greed and profit.
And you idiots sit here arguing about the pros and cons of an illegal occupation of Syria on behalf of some gypsies who have no more right to be there than you do. Time to pull your heads out of your buckets of sand and look at the real world, lads, before you get washed down the drain with all the nonsensical idiots whose company you so obviously prefer.

November 23rd, 2017, 6:17 pm
Your accusations about “Kurds” are Nazi and the Kurdish people will force Nazis like you to consider them as the first masters of 1/2 of pre-2011 Syria and the mentioned iranian proxies /Jihadies/ will be deterd with their customer as well.

Well now we know what many of us had feared…it has begun.

Today it’s the Turks. Tomorrow the Iraqis next Iranian militias but eventually the Kurds will be left to fend for themselves because that is simply who we as the USA are and it is what we do in the Middle East the only country in the region the has an ironclad guarantee of support is Israel all other countries are simply expendable (maybe Saudi’s but that’s a separate discussion and only is valid until renewable energy or nuclear energy wins the day).

David, this not a war of Kurds versus Turks. In fact Kurds are fighting with the Turkish army just as Kurds are fighting with with ISIS, al Qaeda and the armies of Iran, Iraq and Syria. The PKK/YPG are not the only political Kurdish group in Syria.