Der Spiegel’s Sensational Hariri Tribunal ‘Breakthrough’: Hezbollah Did It
Hizbullah media relations’ bureau: “Information published by the German Der Spiegel is nothing less than police fabrications.”

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,626412,00.html

http://www.france24.com/en/20090524-hariri-hezbollah-assassination-united-nations-spiegel-investigation-lebanon

http://pulsemedia.org/2009/05/24/der-spiegels-sensational-hariri-tribunal-claim/

“Hezbollah calls Der Spiegel report ‘dark campaign’
(…)

“It is a black fabricated campaign adopted by known groups to harm Hezbollah,” read the statement, adding that “It is not the first time such lies are published.”

The movement said the timing of the accusations and the immediate hype of the report by Saudi Arabia’s Al-Arabia TV-“which is known for its political affiliation”– leaves no doubt that it is a campaign aimed at affecting Lebanon’s upcoming elections and on the other hand “to deflect attention from the news about the dismantling of spy networks working for Israel on the other.””
Press TV

As’ad AbuKhalil makes this interesting observation:

“PS Raed liked this particular line in Der Spiegel and he suspected that it may have been written by a scribe in the Hariri press office: ” In 2005, the billionaire began to outstrip the revolutionary leader in terms of popularity.” ”
Who killed Rafiq Hariri? Who Cares?

As I had pointed out in my earlier comment, the speculation about the motive is also very similar in both articles; and in the Figaro article it does indeed come from a “proche de Saad Hariri”:

Figaro 2006:

“Même si les relations entre Hariri et le Hezbollah n’ont jamais été solides, quel aurait pu être l’intérêt du mouvement chiite de participer à son élimination ? «De par sa stature, Hariri, le richissime leader sunnite, gênait les visées du Hezbollah au Liban et plus largement de l’Iran qui cherche à renforcer l’influence de ses alliés chiites dans le monde arabe», estime le proche de Saad Hariri.”

It’s always nice to see a foreign correspondent who is able (or allowed) to think for himself. Carsten Kühntopp (ARD Amman) says that the alleged motive is not convincing:

“Hatte die Hisbollah ein Motiv für den Hariri-Mord?
(…)

Welches Motiv sollte die Hisbollah gehabt haben?

Der Bericht des “Spiegel” wirft zahlreiche Fragen auf, beispielsweise die nach dem Motiv für die Tat: Wieso sollte Hisbollah ein Interesse daran gehabt haben, dass Rafik Hariri stirbt? Der “Spiegel” liefert dazu eine Erklärung, die Beobachter kaum überzeugt: Hariris ungeheure Popularität sei Hisbollah-Chef Hassan Nasrallah ein Dorn im Auge gewesen. Der “fanatische und spartanisch lebende” Nasrallah habe Hariris opulenten Lebensstil nicht ertragen.”
Zweifel an neuer These zum Mord an Hariri

(my emphasis)

No comment!

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??????? ????? ???? : ( ???? ????? )
25/ 05/ 2009
???? ????? ?????? ??????

???? ?????? ???? ????? ????? ??????? ??????? ??????

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?????? ??????? ?????? ?? ?? ?????? 627 ?? ???????: ( ?? ??? ?????? ?????? ??? ?????? ????? ????? ?? ???? ????? ???? ?????. ??? ????? ??????? ??????? ????? ?? ?????? 76 ??????? ?? ????? ??????? )). ?? ?? ??? ??????? ?? ??? ???? ????? ??? ??????.
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???? ?????? 325 ?? ??????? ??? 3 – ??? ???? ??????? ???? ??? ?????? ?? ???????? ?????? ???? ???? ??????? ??? ???????? ?? ????. ???? ????? ?????? ???? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???? ??? ??????? ??? ??? ?????? ?? ??????? ??? ?? ???? ?? ?? ?????? ????? ??? ????? ?? ????? ???? ??? ?? ?????? ????? ????? ?? ??????? ?????? ?? ??? ?? ????? ????? ?? ?????. ???? ?????? ?????? ?????? 129 ?? ???? ???? ???? ??????? ???? ?? ????? ??????? ??????? ?????? ??????? ???? ??? ??????: (( ??? ???? ??? ??????? ???? ?????? ??? ???? ?? ??? ???? ??? ??? ??????? ??? ????? ?? ???? ???? ?? ???? ????? ?? ??? ????? ?????? ?? ??? ??????? ???? ??? ?? ???? ?? ????? ?????? ??? ?? ?? ?????? ??? ?? ??? ????? ?????? ???? ??????? ??? ???? ?? ???? ?? ?????)). ?????? ?? ????? ??? ????? ???????? ?? ??? ??????? ??? ?? ???? ??????? ????? ???? ??????? ????????? .???? ?????? 293 ????? ????? ???? ??? ??????? ?? ????? ????? ????? ???? ???? ????? ?? ????. ??? ???? ??? ??? ????? ?? ??? ???? ??? ???? ??? ?
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??????? ????? ???? – ???? ?????

It gets better

????? ????? “??????? ???????” ??????: “??????? ??????” ???? ???? ???????..
???? ??????
2009/ 05/ 24
?? ??????.. ?? ???????? ?? ????? ?????????? ???? ???? ????? ?????.. ??? ??????? ?????????!
?? ????????! ??? ??: ??????? ????? ???????? ???????? ??????!
?? ??????- ???????! ??? ??: ??????? ??????? ?????? ?????..
“?????? ???????” ?????! ?????????: ???? ??????? ?? ?????!

??? ?????? ??????? ??????? ???????? ?? ??? “???? ?????” ????? ?? ???? ?? ??????? ??? ??????? ???????? ??????? ???? “????”? ????? ??? ?? ??????? ?????? ?? ?????? ?????? ???????? ???? ???? ?????? ???????? ????? ?????? ??????? ??????? ???????????? ??????? ?????? ????? ????? ????? ?????.

???? ?? ????? ??? ???? ????? ?? ?? ??? ????? ??? ??? ??????? ???????? ????? ???? ?? ??? ??? ???? ???????? ?? “???? ???? ?????” (??? ????? ??? ????? ?? ????)? ?? ?????? ??????? ????????? ???? ?????? ????????? ??? ?? ??? “??????” ???? ????? ?????? ????????? ?????? ?? ?????? ????? ???? ??? ?????? ???? ????? ?? ????????? ?????? ?? ?????? ?? ??? ?? ?? ???????? ?????? “????? ?????”? ??? ?????? ??????? ?? ?????? 548 ?192 ?? ????? ???????? ??????? ?????? ?????? ?????? ?????? ????? ????? ???? ?? ???????? ?? ?????? ??? ?? ??? ??? 6 ????? ???? ?? ?????? ????? ??? “???” ????? ??? ????? ???????? ??? ????? ???????? ????? ????? ????? ????? ?? ????? ?? ???? ?? ??? “???? ?????”!

?????? ????? ?? ?????? “?????? ??????? ?? ??? ???? ???? ???????” (??????? ??? /2437? ????? 7/6/2007)? ?? ????? “????? ????? ????? ?????” (????!!)? ???? ?????? ???????? ??? ?? ??????? ??????? ?? ?????? ??? ????? ?????? ?? ??????? ?? ????? ?? ????? ???????? ??? ???? ?????? ?? ?????? ?????? ?? ?? ?????? ?? ??? ???????? ?????? ?? ????? ???????? ???????? ??????? ???? “???????”!

????? ????? ??????? ??????? ??????? ??????? ?? “???? ?????” ?????? ????? ??? ???? ??????? ???? ???????? ???? ???? ?? ?? ???? ???? ??? ???? ??? ????. ????? ?? ?????? ?????? ?? ???? ???? ???????? ??????? ???? “???????? ??????” ??????? ??????? ??. ????? ??? ?????? ????????? ??? ???? ????? ????? “?????”? ??? ?? ??? ?????? ????? ?????? ?????????? ????? ???????? ?? ???????? ????.

???? ?? ???? “?????”? ??? ???? “?????”? ??? ???? ???? ????? ?????? ?????? ?????! ??? ??? ???!

??? ?? ???? ?????? ??? ????! ??? ???? ???????? ???????? ??????? ??????? ?????.. ??? ??? ???!

??? ???? “?????? ??????” ???? ????? ?? ?? “?????” ?? ????? ??? ?????? ??? ??????! ??? ???? ?? ?? ?????? ?? ?? ???? “?????” ????!? ?”??? ??????” ???? ???? ?? ????? ?? ???? ??? ???????? ????? ??????? ?????? ???? ???? ?? ????? ??? ?? ???? ?? ??????? ???????!

??? ????? ????? ?????? ??? ?? ???? ?? ???? ?? ???????? ?????? ??? ??? ???? ???? “?????”? ??? ?????? ????? ?????? ???? ???? ????? ?????? ????? ??? ??????? ?? ???? ????? ????????

?? ????? ??? ????? ?????? ????? ?????? ???? ??????? ????? ??????? (???? ???) ?? ???????? ???????? ??????? ??? ????? ??????? ?? ??? ?????? ???? “??????? ???????? ??????”? ??? ?????? ??????? “?????” ????? ?????? ??? ?????? ?? ??????? ?? ??????? ?? ??????? ??????? ?? ????? “???????? ???? ??? ?????? ???? ?????”?!? ??? ??????? ???????? ???????? ?…?!

??? ?? ??????? ???? ?????? ????? ????? “???????” ???? “??????? ???????”? ??? ????? ?? ?????? ????? ???????? ??? ??? ????? ??? ???? “????” ??? ?????.

??? ???????? ???? ??????????? ??????? ??????? ??????????? ???????? ???????? ?????. ??? ???? ????? ??? ???? ???? ???? ?? ??? ??? ????? ????????? ?? ????? ?????? ??? ???? ?? ???? ?? ??? ????? ??? ??????? ????? ?????? ???????? ???? ??? ??????? ????????? ??? ????. ??? ????? ?? ????? ??????? ??? ???? ?????. ???? ??? ??????? ??????? ??? ??? ?? ??? ?????? ????? ?????? ??? ?? ????? ????? ??? ????? ?? ??????? ??? ????? ????? ??????? ???? ?????????.

??? ????? ?? ????? ????? ?????? ????? ?? ??? ????? ??? ??????? ??????? ??? ????? ??? ????? ?????? ???????? ????? ????? “???? ?????” ????? ?? ?? ???? ???????? ????????? ????? ?? ????????? ??? ????? ?? ??? ???? ???? ??????? ???? ???????? ???????. ?? ??? ???? ????? ???? ??? ??? ?????????? ???? ??? ?????? ?????? ?????? ?????.

??? ???? ????? ?????? ?? ???????? ??????? ???? ??????? ?? ????? ????? ???????? ?? “????? ????? ???????” ??????? ????? ????? ?? ???????? ???????? ???? ???? ??? ???????? ??? ???? ??????? ????? ???????? ?? ?? ???? ??? ??????? ?? ??????? ?????? ????????? ??????? ??????? ???? ?????????? ???? ???? ?????? ?? ???? ?????? ?? ????? ???? ???? ?????? ???????? ????.

??? ????? ????? ????? ???? ?? ???????? ????????? ??? ?? ?????? ?????? ??????? ?????????? ?????? ??????? ????? ??? ??? ?? ?????? ?? ??? ??? ??????? ???? ?????? ?? ??? ??????? ????? ????? ?????? ??? ?????? ?? ????? ?????? ?? ????? ?????? ?? ??????? ??? ??????? ???? ?? ????? ????? ????? ????? ?? “??? ????” ???? ???? ???? ?????? ????? “???? ????”!.

??????/? ????? ???? ????? ????? ?? ??? ??? ???????? ??? ??? ??????/? ????? ?????/? ?????????/?.

???????? ??? ?? ??????? ????? “???? ???? ?????” ?????? ???/? ????? ??? ???? ????????? ????????.

– ???????? “???? ???? ?????”.

http://nesasy.org/content/view/7367/110/

D Tesco ,there are 2 names published in Der Spiegel ,Haj Salim and Ghamlush from where do you think, did Der Spiegel got these names and that Ghamlush is missing? Mossad?
Anyway ,Syria ,Mossad/CIA or Hezbollah ,or Syria and Hezbollah together ,such sophisticated attack can only be the work of strong organizations backed by countries.

I can’t wait for every Syrian Christian to pay Al Jizya…what a stupid country, stupid people and stupid government.

Jad,

May be I am missing something, but where does it imply that every Christian is on his way to pay Jizya? What made you so upset?

Dear Ehsani,
I’ve been sarcastic, since the new law is not actually going forward but the opposite of secularism should go, and it is going back to the Ottoman periods for dealing with minorities.
When we as a community let ‘religious’ take over our ‘citizenship’ and separate each others as Syrian by naming us by our different religious that can lead for more segregation not integration and not supporting the national pride we as Syrian always brag out.
Could you please go through the law and you will understand my frustration of this huge backward step they did, it’s an absolutely unacceptable for all the mistakes and superficial and ignorance for the very basics of Christian faith and rules by implementing different religion rules on its main core believes.

http://all4syria.info/content/view/9218/85/

It’s really sad that after two years of work that what they come with, what a shame not on the religious issues but also on Women rights as well…It’s beyond any logic that Syrian can come with such ugly result. It’s huge.

Hi Jad,

You said that the new law allows Christians to marry a second wife ,

Do you think that they are trying to lure the Christians back to Syria.?

LOL, but as Christian MAN you have a limit of only THREE wives according to the new Syrian Mullah Taliban’s proposed law…and your wife can’t get married for a whole year!!! that is not the ‘rule’ over Muslim women since according to the new law she can married after only three months…..FOR GOD SAKE who propose such stupid rules, can you tell me?
On more serious note, If (God forbidden) this law approved as it is it will give the already shrinking Christian minority in Syria another reason to leave and immigrate.

If I had a million dollars, I would bet that neither Hizballah, Syria had anything to do with it. The plain fact that they do not have the technological intel to pull that off. Israel on the other hand could probably tell us when we are taking a dump. I’m also embarrassed to say that as arabs, (my self included)can’t agree on anything, and we can never keep our mouths shut when we are angry, we inadvertenly tell the truth in fits of anger. There is NO WAY, all those involved, can keep quiet, it’s impossible. The only players in the world that don’t kiss and tell, is the mosad. They are the only real professional killers out there, with technology up the wazu. They masterminded this perfectly, from the planning of the Hariri killing, to framing their enemies. Only winners in the Hariri murder was Israel. Not Syria, not Hizb, and certainly not Lebanon. They took him out for many greedy reasons, that all aligned with their stratigic goal, put pressure on Syria, try to disarm Hizb themselves, and gain leverage in Lebanon. We have to give them credit, they are on the verge of pulling it off completely!

Jad I agree … this is pathetic. I can only assume that it will be thrown in the garbage real fast.

What an amazing collection of lunatics they nominated for this committee.

My dear friend Jad,You should avoid to be idealist or utopian be realistic and read good books on our past as i do ,this policy of homogenization (social ,ethnical ,cultural or religious) from AbdelNasser till our time had been very harmful to Syria at all levels(economical,cultural,religious co existence).

Only one thing that you must know,during the Ottoman era ,most of modern schools and universities in Lebanon,Egypt,Palestine and Syria were controlled by christians(the same for the hospitals ).The result on the ground was very positive ,it produced a high quality and non sectarian elite ,because the majority of the pupils in these schools were muslims.In fact ,their influence was relatively more important than that of muslims.
Jad ,in our reality homogenization means dilution for the christian community of Syria and in the end God forbid ,extinction.In reaction to this situation ,the syrian christians have become paranoid from their muslim environment,anti Islam hatred is one the rise ,so the repercussions are reciprocal mistrusts.
I too believe in universal values ,but we should take into account the realities as they are after 40 years of dictatorial rule,our societies have been depraved by these years.
As for al dhimmi(protection) tax ,the Ulama have stated long time ago ,that it has become obsolete,after that they were integrated into the army .

on the rise sorry

Alex,
I honestly can not believe what I’m reading inside that list of rules; it is pathetic in every angle I’m looking at.
The problem is that such important law should have been studied and reviewed at least 5 times before they even release it for public.
I believe that they might approve it as it is just in spite of everybody, as they always do.
I’m so angry of the Christian clerics for not being involved in this important project, how could they be that careless of something that important, how could they be that ignorant of not letting their voices be heard and insist on being there when someone else is deciding their lives and their children lives in the future. I’m blaming the Orthodox Patriarch and his board for such crime against the Syrian Christian community.
I’m not even going to start with the Women issues there because it is disgusting even to read…

I am very upset, I have read as much as I could of the proposed law. While some of the language in this law is arcane, the rules are definitely arcane and represent no measurable improvement from the old laws. This is the work of one lazy committee that should be ridiculed in public. The president should distance himself from this proposed law, ask the minister of justice for his resignation and establish a new committee that should start from scratch.

One would have thought that after 100 years of the end of the Ottoman empire, more than 60 years past independence, we would have by now managed to live in the mid 20’th century. But no, we have to go back further than that. Whenever a thread of positivity is allowed, it is then taken away with brute force in the same sentence. Any attempt at modernity is shy at best with positive elements of the law being demolished by exceptions ( Article 44-1, and then article 45.1 regarding marriage age). However, i think this law is a victory for the muslim brotherhood. It enshrines their anti-women bigotry not as a bad inheritance from a past period, but as an outlook for a longer dark ages for Syrian women. No wonder the MB have decided to stop their opposition, they got what they wanted, and they must have been aware of it. Men will continue to rule over their sisters, mothers, and daughters, even their aunts and grand mothers.

For example, Article 53 allows the “guardian?!”of an adult woman to request annulment of her marriage if (he) believes that the husband she married was not appropriate for her on the day of marriage. The law in its wisdom decided to ignore the definition of appropriate and opened up a barrel of worms and snakes.

Jad
Do not be angry at Christian clerics, be angry at those who excluded them from the discussion. But this is what happens when laws are made without the public being involved whatsoever. The parliament will probably rubber stamp it and the president will sign it, probably with minor modification.

I beg to differ with you on the idea that this law should have been studied further before being released to the public. The earlier the better, but with the public having no good way of addressing grievances, and no good way of shaming those who did such a sloppy job, studying the law for 10 times would not have made a difference.

My previous comment was too kind.

I do not know who Bassam Alqadi is, but I fully agree with his assessment. I read the law, and it is counter to the constitution. One could have easily asked a Wahabi cleric to re-write it and he would not have come with any worse. And i suspect that those who wrote it are probably wahabi educated.

testing

I think I found the reason why certain parts of the Spiegel story were changed (compared to the earlier version by Le Figaro): in order to make it a “scoop” and to persuade the Spiegel to run the story just two weeks before the elections in Lebanon.

Nibras Kazimi catches an important inconsistency in the report:

“This circumstancial evidence (…) cited seems to have been kicked up to the investigators under Bellemare “about a month” ago. If Wisam Eid uncovered it, then why wasn’t the evidence handed over earlier? (Eid was assassinated in Jan. 2008)”.

I had already identified the following falsehoods in the story, based on a comparison with the Figaro article:

Spiegel 2009:

“The pace of the investigation stalled under Mehlis’s Belgian successor, Serge Brammertz. (…)?But now there are signs that the investigation has yielded new and explosive results. (…)?Tribunal chief Bellemare and his fellow judges apparently want to hold back this information, of which they been aware for about a month.”

What would the Spiegel have done, had they known that an earlier version of the “scoop” had already been published 3 years ago by Le Figaro?

This is further evidence that the story is a plant.

It’s worth posting Nibras Kazimi’s comments in full:

-Hariri assassination being blamed on Hezbollah, via Der Spiegel. Although this would seem to validate my initial hunch about the culprits, but the story has plenty of holes. Clearly the author, Erich Follath, got this from Lebanese sources — identified as “sources close to the investigation,” and later “…According to the Lebanese security forces“–with the goal of influencing the outcome of the parliamentary elections next month. This circumstancial evidence (…nowhere in the article is there a direct link between the two cell phone networks) cited seems to have been kicked up to the investigators under Bellemare “about a month” ago. If Wisam Eid uncovered it, then why wasn’t the evidence handed over earlier? (Eid was assassinated in Jan. 2008) First problem is that the story says that alleged Hezbollah operative Abdel-Majid Ghamlush was identified as the buyer of the mobile phones, but it doesn’t tell us if he was the one who bought the first set of eight that were directly tied to the assassination, or the phones were the twenty mentioned in the “second circle of hell”. It would stand to reason that Hezbollah operatives were in downtown Beirut monitoring things, but that would be routine, nothing with ‘clear’ criminal intent. Then there’s the clincher: “They have apparently discovered which Hezbollah member obtained the small Mitsubishi truck used in the attack”. There’s no qualification for the word “apparently” and this tidbit, the only one talking about a direct link, is unsourced. To me, this is propaganda. Also note that chief investigator under Mehlis, Gerhard Lehmann, is now working for the Saudis. I’ve always maintained that there are plenty of reasons to denounce the Iranians, the Syrians and Hezbollah, without pegging the legitimacy of these outfits on a purported role or lack thereof in the Hariri murder.
Talisman Gate

(my emphasis)

Some observations:

1. It is possible but by no means necessary that Follath’s immediate sources are Lebanese, as this is an international investigation, so “sources close to the investigation” don’t have to be Lebanese. The second quote in particular (“according to the Lebanese security forces”) is not convincing at all because it is meant to identify who made the “discovery” and not who is the source of the article (unlike the quotes in Malbrunot’s article that clearly identify the source).

2. The article does indeed not say which set of phones “Ghamlush” allegedly bought; it does allege, however, that “Ghamlush” used one of the 8 phones to call his “girlfriend” and one could infer from that that he would be the buyer of those phones.

The owner of that phone shop supposedly died in an accident (a passenger in the same car survived, however). That would make it difficult for him to identify “the buyer of the mobile phones”.

3. Gerhard Lehmann, is “now working on a new assignment in Saudi Arabia”. That does not necessarily mean that he is “working for the Saudis”. For example, on assignment for the BKA he allegedly ran a “spy network” in Lebanon from Cyprus during the civil war years, according to reports in the German media.

Jad, 3 and 4, Im sorry I cant read arabic, what does the text say?

t-desco:

The article does not say Ghamlush used one of the eight phones. It says he used one of the (hot) phones. The article does not tell us what the (hot) phones are. It could mean any of the operational phones of the 8 or 20. The article also says Ghamblush bought the phones. Read it carefully.

Lehmann is now in private practice.

OTW,
I can’t agree more, this is the worst news I’ve heard from Syria so far and I’m trying to know how far this proposed law is going but it seems that nobody knew about any committees doing the work except the ‘janitor’ of the great ministry of justice.
Syrians are as stunned as me and you here, there is a lot going on right now of how to deal with such disaster.
I’m trying to let our complains be heard through some of the people I know to get as high as possible so someone can at least say something about it.

Supreme,
the text says
1-Syrian women doesn’t have brains to think and therefore the Syrian men will tell them what to do from the moment they born until they die (in 500 articles)
2-Syrian Christians got a new bylaw that will make them live/get married and die not according to their churches and believes but according to a new faith: a combination between the middle ages Europe rules and Taliban crazy rules. (In ONLY 35 articles)
3- Syrian law makers are unfit to come up with animal rights law because they don’t know how and they are still living in the caves of their ignorance and stupidity.
This is the Summary of what is written there,try your best to be proud being a SYRIAN because that is the best Syrian can come with in 2009AD and 1430Hijri
BIG SHAM.

OTW,
Bassam Alkadi, is a great Syrian who commited himself and his work to defend women rights in Syria.
He is a Syrian hero.

http://www.alkadi.info/content/category/9/20/58/
http://www.alkadi.info/

Jad
Thank you for the links to Bassam’s pages. Now i know who he is, I am an “instant” admirer of his courage and heroism.

What can we do? any idea

OTW,
This might be interesting, however, I’m very pessimistic until I read any official announcement from the government about the matter.
I’m also starting a Petition knowing in advance that it wont go anywhere but I can’t see what this government is doing and keep quite.

????? ?????? ??? ????? ???? ???????: ?? ?? ????? “????? ????? ??????? ???????”?
???? ?????
2009/ 05/ 26
???? ????? ???? ?? “????? ????? ??????? ???????” ?????? ???? ???? ?????? ?? ?? ???? ???? ?? ??? ????? ???? ??????? (???? ???? ?? ??? ??? ?????? ???????)? ???? ??? ??????? ???? ??? ??? ???????? ????? ?????? ?? ???????? ??????? ?????? ????? ????????? ?? ??????? ??? ??????.

??? ????? ?????? ??? ??? ???? ??? ????????? ????? ?? ??.
???? ???? ?????? ??? ??? ???? ????? ????? ??? ?????? ?? ????? ???????? ??????? ??? ????????? ?????????? ??? ?????? ??? ????? ?? ???????/? ????????/?. ??? ????? ?? ??? ??????? ???? ?? ??? ??? ??? ?????? ??? ??? ????????? ???????? ??? ????? ?????????? ???????? ??????? ????????? ?????? ?????? ?? ????? ???????? ?? ?????? ???????? ???? ???? ?? ???? ????? ??????? ??????? ??????? ?? ?????? ?????? ????????? ??????? ????.

????? ????? ????? ????? ???? ??????? ???? ????? ?? ???? ????? ??? ??? ?????? ???? ??? ??? ??? ?? ?? ??? ??? ???????? ?????? ?????? ???? ????? ?? ?? ????? ??? ???.

???? ??????? ??? ??? ??? ????? ?? ?????? ??? ??????? ??????? ?? ??? ???? ??? ????? ??????? ???? ?????? ???? ?????? ?????.

??????? ????? ??? ?? ?? ???? ????? ???? ??????? ??? ??? ???????? ????? ????? ?????? ??????? ??? ??????? ?? ??????? ???????? ?? ?????? ???? ????? ???? ???? ????? ????? ??????? ??????? ??????.

???? ?????? (????? ?????? ??? ????? ???? ???????: ?? ?? ????? “????? ????? ??????? ???????”?)

http://nesasy.org/content/view/7371/110/

SYRIANS ONLY!

As most of you already read the proposed law that our Syrian Government is planning to introduce.

The law if approved would become a huge step backward to the Darker ages of Syria, where minorities and women were looked at as second class citizen that they don’t have says in any matter that deals with their life.

It is the worst news I heard from Syria so far and I hope that you could let our voice be heard and that we say NO for treating 50% of our population (Women) And when our government set new rules over Christians without asking their churches both are big sham for all of us as Syrians.

Please sign the Petition, no names will be shown, just the number of people who doesn’t agree with the proposed law.

http://www.petitiononline.com/185180km

Jad,

Very few people on this blog are actually in Syria. Most people on this blog probably haven’t been there in decades.

UPDATE

???? ????? ?????????… ???? ????? ?????? ????? ??????? ??????? “??????”

??? ( ???? ?????)
27/ 05/ 2009

??? ?????? ????? ?????? ???????? ?? ????? ??? ????? ????? ??????? ??????? ??????? ???? ????? ????????? ??????? ???? ??? ?? ????? ??? ?????? ??? ?????? ????? ????? ???? ??? ???? ???? ?????? ???? ????? ?????? ????? ????? ???? ???? ??????? ??? ?????.

???? “???? ?????” ????? ?? ????? ????????? ?? ????? ?? ??????? ???? ???? ??? ??????? ?????? ???? ??? ?? ??? ?????? ?? ???? ????? ???????? ??? ????? ??????? ???? ????? ????. ?????? ????? ????????? ??? ????? ???? ????? ?????? ???? ???? ???? ?????? ???? ??? ?????? ??? ???? ????? ??????? ???????? ?? ????? ????? ???? ?? ???????? ???? ??????? ??? ?????? ????? ?? ???? ?????? ??? ???? ????? ??? ???? ” ????? ?????” ????? ?? ??? ?? ???????? ???? ??? ??? ????? ?? ???? ???? ?????? ??? ?????? ?? ???? ????? ??????? ???????? ?? ????? ?????????? ??? ????? ???????.

??? ???? “???? ?????” ?? ???????? ???????? ?? ????? ?? ???? ???????? ??? ????? ??????? ???? ????? ?????? ???? ??? ????? ?????? ??????. ?????? ????? ???? ??? ????? ????????? .

???? ????? ??????? ???????? ?? ????? ???????? ?? ??? ???????? ????? ????????? ??? ????? ??????? ???????? ??? ????? ????? ?????? ??? ????? ??????? ??? ???? ????? ?????????.

???? ???? ?? ??????? ???? ???????? ??? ??????? ??????????? ?? ?? ????? ???? ??????? ?? ????? ??? ????? ??????? ???????? ??? ?????. ??? ????? ???? ??????? ????? ?? ??? ???????. ????? ???????? ???? ??? ????? ?????? ???? ????? ?????? ????? ??????? ???????? ?? ?????.

Jad
Any news of addressing women concerns? seems that they were moving a head with the law.

BTW, the law is in numerous violations of article 2 of the convention on the elimination of all forms of discrimination against women (CEDAW). Syria has objected to this article and later withdrew the objection in 2007. Syria continues to have reservations on article 9 (Citizenship rights equality).

Article 2, to which syria held reservation from 2003 through 2007 states

Article 2
States Parties condemn discrimination against women in all its forms, agree to pursue by all appropriate means and without delay a policy of eliminating discrimination against women and, to this end, undertake:

(a) To embody the principle of the equality of men and women in their national constitutions or other appropriate legislation if not yet incorporated therein and to ensure, through law and other appropriate means, the practical realization of this principle;

(b) To adopt appropriate legislative and other measures, including sanctions where appropriate, prohibiting all discrimination against women;

(c) To establish legal protection of the rights of women on an equal basis with men and to ensure through competent national tribunals and other public institutions the effective protection of women against any act of discrimination;

(d) To refrain from engaging in any act or practice of discrimination against women and to ensure that public authorities and institutions shall act in conformity with this obligation;

(e) To take all appropriate measures to eliminate discrimination against women by any person, organization or enterprise;

(f) To take all appropriate measures, including legislation, to modify or abolish existing laws, regulations, customs and practices which constitute discrimination against women;

(g) To repeal all national penal provisions which constitute discrimination against women.

obviously, the committee had no idea that Syria is a state member of CEDAW. The new law will cause us significant problems with the convention.

In one of their questioning of the Syrian only annual report, the convention expert panel asked if conventions have the strength of laws in Syria. Syria has not yet answered (to my knowledge), but I may be wrong.

The country signed the convention and acceded to it, and we now have a clear violation in the new law. I hope that the ministry of foreign affairs stands firm on this issue . I wish I have enough time to point in details each and every violation of this convention in this new law. There are many of them.

Read the entire convention text

in English
http://www.un.org/womenwatch/daw/cedaw/text/econvention.htm

IN Arabic

http://www.un.org/womenwatch/daw/cedaw/text/0360793A.pdf

I think the document should be posted on every web-site interested in Syria.

Dear OTW
From my understanding and I’m not a lawyer, it seems that things are getting really complicated now, the government stuck its head between two major lobbying ( Women and Christians) that I’m not seeing how this problem might end without angering both targeted parties Christians and women right activists.
Since the Christian get their complain toward the top it seems that the women activist stop a little bit shorter than that and it will look really ugly if they do the changes only on the Christian section and not on the whole documents that targeting women.
To make this work I believe that the government should either abolish any reference for any religion on that document which will satisfy all minorities if it doesn’t conflict with their respected faith and they should abolish all kind of discrimination against Syrian women this document has.
OR start from scratch again with more awareness of the problem this kind of proposal made so far.

If they fail to do any of those two options this will be the bad step this government ever took and it will cost it to fall down miserably since the authorities are not in need of this trouble especially now.

I don’t know what this government were they thinking to publish such thing without further studies and consulting behind the doors first, we really didn’t need that!

Here is the beginning of such scenario

????? ???? “??” ?????? ????? ?????.. ????: “??” ????? ??????!
???? ??????
2009/ 05/ 27
???? ?? ????? ??? ?? “????? ????? ??????? ??????? ??????” ?????? ???? ??????? ???? ??? ???? ???????? ?????? ????? ?? ??? ??? ??? ??????? ?? ??????? ?????? ????! ?????? ??? ??? ????? ???? ??? ???? ??????? ????? ???? ?? ??? ???? ?????? ???????! ??? ??? ???? ??? “????” ??? ??? ???!

???? ?? “???? ???? ?????” ??? ?? ???? ??? ???? ???? ??? ???? ????? ??? ?? ???????! ?????? ??? ??? ?? ????? ????? ??????? ??????? ??????? ?????? ???? ??????? ?? ???? ??? ?????? ????? “????” ???? ???? ????? ???????? ???????? ??????? ?? ????? ??? ???? ???? ??? ???? ???? ?? ??? ???? ???? ?????? ??? ?? ???? ?? ????? ??? ?? ????? ??? ???????? ????????? ??? ????? ?? ?????????? ??????? ?????????? ????? ???? ??????? ??? ?? ????? ????? ??????? ???? ?????? ???? ??? ?????? ???????? ???? ???? ??? ????? ????? ???? ??? ??????? ?????: ???? ???? ?????? ??? ???????? ?????????? ????? ?? ??????? ??????? ???????? ??????? ????? ???????? ??????????? ??????? ???? ???? ????? ????? ????? ????? ?????? ???????? ??? ????? ????? ???? ???????? ?????? ??? ???? ????? ??????? ?? ??????? ???????? ???? ?????? ????? ??????????? ?????????? ???????? ????.

?? ???? ?? ????? ??? ?? ???? ??? ????????? ?????? ???? ??? ??? ??????? ?? ?????? ??????? ?????? ??? ????? ???? ?????? ???? ???????? ????????? ??? ?????? ?????? ??? “????” ????? ??? ????? ?? ??? ??? ??????? ?? ???.

????? ?? ?? ???? ??? ?????? ?????? ?? ??????? ?? ???? ??? ???? ?????: ?? ?????? ?????? ??????? ?? ?????? ?????? ???????? ???????? ????? ?? ?????? ??????? ??? ???? ????? ????? ?? ????? “???????” ??????? ???? ??? ?? ?????? ?????? ?? ????? ????? ??? ?? ????. ??? ??? ???? ????? ???????? ????? ??? ?????? ???????? ?? ????????? ??????? ???????? ????? ??? ?????? ????? “????” ???? ?? ???? ??????? ??????? ???? ???? ??????? (????? ?? ?????? ???????? ?? ??? ??? ???????? ??????? ?? ????? ?????? ????????)? ????? ??? ??? ?????? ?????? ???? ????? ?? ????? ?? ??? ??????: ?????? ??????.

?? ???? ????? ????? ???? ????? ??????? (?????? ??????) ???? ????? ?? ????? ???? ?????? ?? ???? ???? ??? ??? ??? ?????????? ??? ?? ???? ???? “???????? ???????” ???? ???? ?? ??? ??????? ????? ??? ?????? ?? ????? ????? ?? ???? ?? ?? ????? ????? ?? ??????. ??? “???” ??? ??? ????????? ?? ???? ??? ??? ????? ?????: ???????? ???????? ?? ????? ??? ????? ???????? ??? ?????? ????.

Dear OTW
From my understanding and I’m not a lawyer, it seems that things are getting really complicated now, the government stuck its head between two major lobbying ( Women and Christians) that I’m not seeing how this problem might end without angering any of the both targeted parties Christians and women right activists.
Since the Christian get their complain toward the top it seems that the women activist stop a little bit shorter than that and it will look really ugly if they do the changes only on the Christian section and not on the whole documents that targeting women.
To make this work I believe that the government should either abolish any reference for any religion on that document which will satisfy all minorities if it doesn’t conflict with their respected faith and they should abolish all kind of discrimination against Syrian women this document has.
OR start from scratch again with more awareness of the problem this kind of proposal made so far.

If they fail to do any of those two options this will be the worst step this government ever took and it will cost it to fall down miserably and get fired since the authorities are not in need of this trouble especially now.

Here is the beginning of such scenario

????? ???? “??” ?????? ????? ?????.. ????: “??” ????? ??????!
???? ??????
2009/ 05/ 27
???? ?? ????? ??? ?? “????? ????? ??????? ??????? ??????” ?????? ???? ??????? ???? ??? ???? ???????? ?????? ????? ?? ??? ??? ??? ??????? ?? ??????? ?????? ????! ?????? ??? ??? ????? ???? ??? ???? ??????? ????? ???? ?? ??? ???? ?????? ???????! ??? ??? ???? ??? “????” ??? ??? ???!

???? ?? “???? ???? ?????” ??? ?? ???? ??? ???? ???? ??? ???? ????? ??? ?? ???????! ?????? ??? ??? ?? ????? ????? ??????? ??????? ??????? ?????? ???? ??????? ?? ???? ??? ?????? ????? “????” ???? ???? ????? ???????? ???????? ??????? ?? ????? ??? ???? ???? ??? ???? ???? ?? ??? ???? ???? ?????? ??? ?? ???? ?? ????? ??? ?? ????? ??? ???????? ????????? ??? ????? ?? ?????????? ??????? ?????????? ????? ???? ??????? ??? ?? ????? ????? ??????? ???? ?????? ???? ??? ?????? ???????? ???? ???? ??? ????? ????? ???? ??? ??????? ?????: ???? ???? ?????? ??? ???????? ?????????? ????? ?? ??????? ??????? ???????? ??????? ????? ???????? ??????????? ??????? ???? ???? ????? ????? ????? ????? ?????? ???????? ??? ????? ????? ???? ???????? ?????? ??? ???? ????? ??????? ?? ??????? ???????? ???? ?????? ????? ??????????? ?????????? ???????? ????.

?? ???? ?? ????? ??? ?? ???? ??? ????????? ?????? ???? ??? ??? ??????? ?? ?????? ??????? ?????? ??? ????? ???? ?????? ???? ???????? ????????? ??? ?????? ?????? ??? “????” ????? ??? ????? ?? ??? ??? ??????? ?? ???.

????? ?? ?? ???? ??? ?????? ?????? ?? ??????? ?? ???? ??? ???? ?????: ?? ?????? ?????? ??????? ?? ?????? ?????? ???????? ???????? ????? ?? ?????? ??????? ??? ???? ????? ????? ?? ????? “???????” ??????? ???? ??? ?? ?????? ?????? ?? ????? ????? ??? ?? ????. ??? ??? ???? ????? ???????? ????? ??? ?????? ???????? ?? ????????? ??????? ???????? ????? ??? ?????? ????? “????” ???? ?? ???? ??????? ??????? ???? ???? ??????? (????? ?? ?????? ???????? ?? ??? ??? ???????? ??????? ?? ????? ?????? ????????)? ????? ??? ??? ?????? ?????? ???? ????? ?? ????? ?? ??? ??????: ?????? ??????.

?? ???? ????? ????? ???? ????? ??????? (?????? ??????) ???? ????? ?? ????? ???? ?????? ?? ???? ???? ??? ??? ??? ?????????? ??? ?? ???? ???? “???????? ???????” ???? ???? ?? ??? ??????? ????? ??? ?????? ?? ????? ????? ?? ???? ?? ?? ????? ????? ?? ??????. ??? “???” ??? ??? ????????? ?? ???? ??? ??? ????? ?????: ???????? ???????? ?? ????? ??? ????? ???????? ??? ?????? ????.

“I can’t wait for every Syrian Christian to pay Al Jizya…what a stupid country, stupid people and stupid government”
Completely agree with you, best statement put on this site ever even you forgot to say stupid authority that are responsible for all the mess.

I wonder if I can say that too, or I have no right to do that and I might be hanged by the bedfellows because there is a hidden message from type of attack on the non-conformers that not all of us allowed to show their frustration the same way (Kheyar w Fakoos).

Please accept this observation: I love it when bedfellows becoming on the opposition and non conformers side, that is really good news and I admire that and am behind you fellows to sign your complaint.

However, FYI, the guy Bassam has been fighting since long time and government was watching him on each move and each word, they threaten to close his site, they attacked him when he defended the women against honor crime and exposed the system complicity, no one from the government or authorities show any support to him in his struggle. When his organization supported the change of the nationality law and supported Mr. Habash in the Parliament to defend more than 100,000 women in the country married to non Syrians, they cut the wings of Habash and vanished. When everyone was talking last year about human rights, on this very blog of Mr. Landis, most of you were defending the authorities in their stands against anything called human rights.
Can we just remember that the two principals:
1. Everyone has the right to a nationality.
2. No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of his nationality nor denied the right to change his nationality.
Do not apply in Syria.

If you guys remember that the complex called Yalpuga in the Marjeh, which has been there as skeleton since 1980s you can easy conclude that nothing will happen on the hands of the current system, and no one can stop the religion pressure building in this society, it needs freedom of talking like what you exercising on this subject right now to achieve that, so do not be surprised if you see soon Christians paying Al Jizya sooner or later on the hand of the current bureaucratic system, but that could all change when we support any guy like Michele Kilo to speak his minds not watching him rotting in prison. So, please do not alienate others, because this battle needs all to gather strength to defeat backwardness.

TrustQuest,
But you’re posting your message in the wrong forum. This is a known pro-regime site. It is specifically designed as an interlocutory medium to carry regime propaganda to western ears. In addition to its American Christian author, there are at least three contributors who are Syrian Christians, and all four are ardent regime supporters. So apparently, they don’t mind paying Al Jizya.

Correction…

These guys will not be paying in person. They’re immune. They enjoy the protection of the USA where they live. They left Syria long ago. But, I see your point now. You are talking about the Syrian Christians who are left behind. Excuse my oversight.

Majid,i dont know who are the other admins ,Qifa Nabki ,our lebanese brother ,he is not pro syrian regime .Alex i’m sure is a very good man,i like him like my brothers,despite his pro regime stance.And dont forget he is not undercover,so he has to be careful.

I don’t know how long you have been around this blog. I’m not talking about Qifa Nabki. The other Syrians I meant were Alex, Norman and EHSANI2.

Majid

This is a blog about Syria. All POVs are welcomed including yours. Those you are complaining about have made important contributions to the conversations. They are as entitled to their political views as you or me are.

Classification and categorization in the narrow manner you are attempting can not capture the complex world view of any Syrian both outside or inside Syria and hating anyone is not a pre-requisite for participation, nor is belonging to a particular “month” party or current.

I largely disagree with Shami, but I like him nonetheless, and he manages to surprise me and others by the multi-polar foundation of his thinking. Labeling him as anti or pro would have been easy, but it would only ascribe to him my own impression, which is incomplete and perhaps incorrect, of those I would be attaching him to and by that cast the conversation narrowly and prevent points of agreements from emerging, when they do.

Again, this is the most neutral Syria oriented blog I have seen in a long time. Your continuing participation is but an indication of that.

Majid ,ehsani i dont think he is christian ,norman and alex ,ok we disagree with them on this matter,the important is that they are honest with themselves and nobody is infaillible , they have also the qualities that i like.They are well educated,true patriots and well in their muslim and arab environments.If they left Syria ,they have had good reasons as any other expat.I hope that their children will live in a better Syria and i’m angry at norman that his children dont speak arabic.Syria without his christians would lose an essential part of her soul.We muslims should do anything possible to attract them to their homeland …bigotery,extremism ,the call for a theocracy must be avoided.

would live in a better Syria sorry

????? ????? ??????? ??????? …….?????? ??? ?????

???? ????- ???? ?????
28/ 05/ 2009
???????? ??? ????? ????? ???? ??????? ???????? ??????? ????? ????? ?????? ?????? ??? ?????? ?????? ????? ??? ?? ???????? ??????? ???????? ???????? ??????? ???????? ???????? ??????? ?? ????????? ????? ????????? ????????? ??????? ?? ?????? ???? ????????.

??? ?????? ??? ??? ??????? ???? ??????? ??????? ???????? ???? ??? ????????? ???????? ???????? ???? ????? ????? ????? ????? … ??? ?????? ??? ?? ??? ?????? ?? ????????.

??????? ??? ???? ???? ??? ?????????? ???? ????? ??????? ????? “??? ???? ??????” ?? ????? ??????? ???? “??????? ???? ??????” ???? ??? ?? ????” ???? ????? ?? ????? ??? ????? 26/ 05/ 2009″? ???? ???? ???? ?????? ?? ??????? ??? ????? “??? ???? ??????” ????? ? ????? ??????? ??????? ?????? “???? ??????” ???????? “????? ????” ?????? ??? ? ?????? ??????? ?????? ?????? “??????” ???????? ????? ??????? ?????? ?????? ?? ????? ??? ????? ???? ?????? ?????? ?????? ??????? ??????? ?????? ????????? ??????? ???? ????? ?????? ????????? ????????? ??????? ???????? ???????? ???? ?????? ?? ??? ?????? ?????? ????????..

??????? ??? ??? ????? ?????? ??? ?????? ?? ???? ??????? ???????? ????? ??? ?????? ?? ???????? ??? ?????????? ????????? ?????? ??????????? ??? ??????? ??????? ??? ????? ?????? ??????? ????? ????????? ??????? ???? ???? ??? ?? ?????? ??? ???? ????? ????? ??????? ?? ???? ??????? ?????? ?????? ?? ????? ??????? ? ???? ????? ????? ?? ???? ??? ??????? ???????? ?? ????? ??? ????? ?? ????????? ?? ??????? ?????? ?????????? ???????? ??? ????????.

??? ????? ?????? ????? ?? ???:

????? : ?? ?????? ?? ???? ????? ????? ?? ??????? ??? ???? ???????? ????? ???????? ??? ???? ????????? ???????? ??? ???? ??????? ??? ????? ????? ????? ??? ?????? ??? ?? ?????? ?????? ??????? ??? ?????? ???? ????????? ??????? ??????? ?????????? ????????? ???? ??? ??? ?????? ?? ??????? ??????? ???? ????? ?? ?????? ????????? ?? ????? ?????? ???? ???? ???????? ??? ???? ????? ???????.

?????? : ??? ?? ??? ?????? ?? ???? ???? ???????? ?????? ???????? ????????? ?????? ?? ????? ??????? ???????? ???? ?? ??? ???? ?? ???????? ????? ?????? ????? ??? ?? ???? ??????? ???? ??????? ??????? ???????? ?????????? ???????? ???????? … ??? ??? ?? ?????? ?? ???? ??????? ???????? ?? ?? ???? ???? ?????? ?? ????????? ?????????? ???????????.

??????: ??? ?? ??????? ?? ???? ????? ????? ??? ????? ????????? ??????? ??????? ?? ???? ????? ??????? ??????? ??????? ???? ????? ?????? ????? ???????? ???????? ???? ???? ?????? ???????? ?????? ?????? ?? ???? ????? ?????? ????????? ???????? ????? ?????? ??? ???? ?????? ??? ?? ???? “????????? ???????”.

??????: ?? ??????? ???? ???? ????? ???????? ????? ?????? ????????? ?????? ?????? ??????? ??????? ???????? ????? ?????? ???? ???? ??? ????? ?????? ???????? ???? ???? ????? ?????? ?? ?????? ????? ?????? ????? ???????? ?? ?? ?? ??????? ?? ??? ???? ??? ??????? ???????? ???? ?? ?????? ?????? ?? ?? ????? ??? ???? ????? ????? ?? ??? ???????? ??? ?????.

??? ??? ??? ?????? ?? ????????? ??????? ???? ?????? ???? ???????? ?????? ???? ??????? ??? ?? ????? ????? ?????? ???????? ????? ????? ?????????.

?? ???? ??? ????? ?????? ?? ??? ??????? ???????? ???? ??? “?????? ??????” ??? ???????? ??????? ???? ????? ? ????? ?? ???? ????????? ??????? ?? ?? ????? ?????? ???????? ?? ?????? ?????? ???????

?????? : ??? ?? ??????? ?? ????? ??? ?? ????? ?? ????????? ??????? ???? ???? ?? ??????? ??????? ??????? ????????? ????? ?? ?? ?? ???? ?? ?????? ??? ?? ?? ????? ?????? ?? ?? ???? ??? ????????? ???????? ??? ???? ???? ???? ???? ??????? ?? ?????? ??????? ??????? ??????? ??? ????????.

?????? : ?? ??????? ???? ???? ????? ????????? ???? ????????? ???? ???? ????? ??????? ????? ?????? ????????? ?? ?????? ???????? ?? ???????? ???? ?? ?? ????? ?? ???? ????? ????.

??? ???? ???? ??? ????? ???? ?? ????? ????? ????? ???????? ??????? ????????? ??? ?? ????? ??? ?? ????? ????? ?????.

?????? : ?? ??? ??????? ??? ???? ????? ??? ??????? ????? ???? “????????” ????? ????? ?????? ????? ???????? ??? ???????? ??????? ??????? ??????? ??????? ??????? ??? ????? ???? ???????? ???? ?????? ?? ???????? ???????? ????? “?????” ?? ???? ????? ?? ????? ????? ????? ???? ?????????? ???? ??? ?????? ?????? ???? ??????? ???????? ?? ????? ?????? ???????? .

?????? : ??? ?? ??????? ?? ???? ??????? ???????? ?? ????? ??????? ??????? ????????? ???????? ????? ?????? ?? ????? ?????? ????????? ?? ?? ???? ??? ???? ????? ????? ???????? ????? ?????????? ?????? “?????” ??? ????? ??? ?? ????? ???????? ????????? ?????? ?????? ????? ????????? ??? ???? ????.

????? ?????? ????????? ?? ????? ?????? “??????” ???? ???? ??? ???????? ????? ????? ?? ?? ???? ??????? ?? ???????? ?? ????? ???????? ???????? ???? ????? ????? ?? ???? ?? ?????? ????????? ?? ???? ????????? ??????? ??? ??????? ??? ????? ????? ?????? ???? ????? ??????? ???????? ???????? ?????? ??? ??????? ???????? ??? ?????? ?? “????????? ????????” ?????? ???????? ?????? ????? ??????? ??????? ??????? ??????? ?????? ?????? ??????? – ??? ???? ??? ????? ???????? ??????? ???????? ???????? ????? ????? ?? ????? ?? ???? ??????? ????? ????????? ??? ????? ?????? ???????? ?????? – .

??? ????? ????????? ?? ??????? ?? ?? ???? “????? ??????? ????????” ???????? ?? ????? ?????? ?? ?? ??????? ??? ????? ?????? “??????” ? ??????? ?????? ?? “??? ???????” ?? “??? ?????” ?? “??? ???????” ?? “??????” ?? ???? ?? ????? ?????? ???? ????? ???????? ??????? … ?? ?? ??? ????? ??????? ?? ???? ???? “??????” ?? ????? ?????? ?? ????? ?????? ?????? ?????? ????? ????????? ????????? .. ?? ?? ????? ?????? ?????? ???? ?? ???? ??? ????? ??????? ??????? ?? ????????? ??????? ???????? ???????? ???? ??? ???? ?? ?????.

??? ??? ???? ?? ?????? ?? ?????????? ??????? ???????? ???? ?????? ????? “??????? ???????” ??? ?????? ?? ?? ?? ??? “?????? ?????” ??? ??????? ?????? ??? ??? ???? ?????”?????? ?????? ?????????”? ??? ?? ?? ??? ????? ?? ???? ?? ????????? ????? ??? ???? ???? ??????? ?? ??????? ??? ???????.

?????? ??? ??? ???? ?? ??? ???? ???????? ?? ??????? ?? ????? ??????? ?? ?????? ??????? ????????? ??? ????? ????? ????? ????? ??? ??????? ????? ????? ?????? ?? ?? ???? ????? ?????? ?? ???? ??? ??? ?????? ????? ????????? ??? ????? ??? ?? ?????????? ?? ??????? ??????? ????? ??? ?? ???? ????? ?? ????? “?????? ??????” ????? ????? ?? ??????? ???????? ????????? ?????? ?????? ???? ??? ????? ?????.

???????? ????? ?????? ?? ?? ????? ??????? ???? ???? ?????? ??????? ????????? ???????? ?????????? ??? ???? ???? ?????? ??????? ???? ??? ???? ???? ?????? ?????? ?? ??????? ?? ??????? ??? ???????? ?????? ????? ?????? ?????? ???? ??????? ?????? ???????? ????? ?????? ?????? ???? ????? :

????? ??? ???????

?????? ??????

???????? ???? ???? ????? ??????? ?? ????? ?????? ?? ??? ???? ?? ????? … ??? ?????.

???? ????- ???? ?????

Wake Up, Israel

Alon Ben Meir

http://alonben-meir.com/articles/read/id/411

May 28, 2009

I am departing from my usual analysis of the Arab-Israeli conflict as I profoundly feel that these are neither ordinary times, nor ordinary circumstances. The challenges and opportunities that Israel faces today will undoubtedly lay the ground for its future coexistence both in the Middle East and as an ally to the West. With new US and Israeli leadership in office comes a renewed prospect to solve the old struggles, and to address once and for all the Palestinian question of statehood. Israel must wake up and heed the call of the international community, rise to the occasion and use the support it has now and its overwhelming power to make the necessary sacrifices for peace. Above all though, Israelis must look introspectively and ask themselves where they want to be in 10, 15 or 20 years from now. Do they want to live in peace with security and prosperity or do they wish to continue the struggle, which is becoming increasingly more threatening if not existential? I believe that Israel is approaching that fateful hour.

Prime Minister Netanyahu’s visit to Washington raised many hopes-but then quelled just as many expectations. It appears he was neither ready to deal with the hard choices presented to him by President Obama, nor was he prepared to offer credible alternatives to deal with the simmering Israeli-Palestinian conflict. At this point in the process, coming to Washington to discuss Arab-Israeli peace without acknowledging the two-state solution only hurt Netanyahu’s standing with the new American administration. President Obama and Secretary Clinton have made it clear that there will be no peace without a Palestinian state, and there will be no Palestinian state with the continued expansion of the settlements. President Obama’s demand that there will be a moratorium on settlement building and expansion is rooted in the simple logic that the settlements not only impede the viability of a Palestinian state, but they rob the Palestinians of any hope that they have a partner in peace who respects their claims to the land. The settlements, furthermore, tell twenty-two Arab states that Israel is not interested in their peace initiative. Continued expansion signals to the United States that Israel does not take seriously American strategic interest and friendship, and it tells the European Union to mind their own affairs. Most importantly, Israel’s inability to control its settlers conveys to the majority of Israelis who are yearning for peace that they should expect nothing but more violence and bloodshed for decades to come.

The Obama administration has stressed that a resolution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is at the top of American national strategic interests, and that the US will provide the utmost security for Israel. Successive American administrations have committed themselves to Israel’s national security and President Obama’s commitment is as unshakable as any of his predecessors’. The difference today is that the President has inherited a region in turmoil with an alarming rise in Islamic extremism, terrorism and sectarian strife as well as a daunting Iranian nuclear threat capable of destabilizing the region in a fundamental way. The Israeli-Palestinian conflict only feeds into this frenzy, edging ever closer to the precipice. Caring about Israel’s national security requires more than supporting Israel’s policies and providing it with the military means to defend itself. Support for Israel will not come with a blank check and a blind eye. President Bush offered unmatched cooperation, but he failed miserably to deal effectively with Iran as it threatened Israel existentially time and again. Bush also neglected to pursue a solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict for the majority of his two terms, and thereby undermined Israel’s only prospect for peace and real security.

Israel has every right to thwart any potential Iranian nuclear threat, but it must first exhaust every peaceful option with its closest and most trusted ally the United States. President Obama has come to the conclusion that isolating Iran is not making Israel or the US any better off. He offered a direct dialogue with Tehran and established the end of 2009 as the time to determine whether or not Iran is willing to commit to negotiations on its nuclear program, leaving all military options on the table. But he has also committed to finding a solution to the Palestinian problem that has eluded all of his predecessors. The President knows as well as any one that there is no issue that has helped Iran undermines Israel’s national security concerns more than the Palestinian conflict. He appreciates Netanyahu’s legitimate concerns about Iran, and thus reasons that dealing more effectively with Iran and weakening its resolve in the Mediterranean would in effect distance Iran’s mischief from the Palestinian interests. Netanyahu must do better than dismantling a few illegal outposts, offering a lip service to a President who believes in Israel’s destiny and is ready to commit time and treasure to insure it as a safe and thriving state.

Netanyahu is correct when he suggests that Israel and the Arab states share a common Iranian nuclear threat, and it would seem logical to invite the Arab states to join hands in dealing with Tehran’s bellicose policies. What Netanyahu fails to understand is that while the Arab states-led by Saudi Arabia and Egypt-are gravely concerned about the Iranian nuclear program, they will not cooperate with Israel as long as the occupation persists and Palestinian plight continues to haunt them. Leaving the Palestinians at this stage to their own devices after sixty-two years of debilitating struggle would challenge the legitimacy of the Arab states’ government. The Arab countries do not wish to see Iran in possession of nuclear weapons, but the prospect of provoking en-masse anti-government sentiments throughout the Arab world is deemed considerably worse. From their perspective, continued Israeli occupation has not only displaced the Palestinians but provides a constant reminder of Arab humiliation, and nothing reinforces that more than the building and the expansion of settlements. More so, if they were to see a moratorium on settlements while negotiations began, they are very likely to offer major concessions, such as state visits to Israel or the opening of economic trade talks.

The Arab states came full circle when their League passed the Arab Peace Initiative (first in March 2002 and again in March 2007) that offered Israel a comprehensive peace with all twenty two Arab countries in return for territories captured in 1967 and a fair settlement of the Palestinian problem. Regardless of the imperfections of this resolution (such how to deal with the refugees, which both sides know cannot be solved in their right to return to Israel proper) it represents nothing less than a historical transformation, especially when compared to the 1967 Arab League resolution which proclaimed no peace, no recognition and no negotiations. The Arab Peace Initiative should be a major triumph for Israel; after more than six decades of violent rejection the Arab nations are ready to embrace Israel as a member Middle Eastern state to live with its neighbors in peace and security. Israel must know by now the implication of making real peace with each and every Arab state, something that has eluded it for over sixty years. True, the Israelis have many reasons to be skeptical; decades of enmity and bloodshed have left an indelible mark etched in the memory of countless Israelis who suffered tragic losses. But now the Arab states, perhaps out of the desire for self-preservation, have come to accept the inevitable: Israel is here to stay and they must live with it in peace or continue a fruitless struggle that will only endanger the security of their own regimes.

In one form or another Israel must face the reality of the Palestinian people and commit to finding an equitable solution that can endure long-term. Like several of his predecessors came to understand, Netanyahu must realize that this is not a matter of blame or right versus wrong. No solution will be based on such a judgment. The Palestinians have been dispossessed, just as the Israelis have been denied the right to exist and had to assert their right. No party involved in the Palestinian plight is blameless: the Arab states, Israel and the Palestinians have all contributed to the tragic unfolding of events. Now it is time to put an end to this saga that has dehumanized both the occupied and the occupier. Each Palestinian has an inherent right to his homeland, and no one can understand this better that the Israelis who equally feel that deep attachment to the land of their forefathers. Now that the parameters of two-states have been repeatedly established and accepted by a majority of Israelis and Palestinians¬-as well as endorsed by the International community and the Arab states-the Israeli government is duty bound to move expeditiously to implement a negotiated agreement. And if Netanyahu’s current right-wing coalition is not fit for the task at hand, he still has the option of forming a government with Tzipi Livni’s Kadima party on the premise of a two-state solution.

Netanyahu can no longer use the Palestinian disunity or Hamas as an excuse for not negotiating a final status agreement. The Arab states through their Peace Initiative are committed to providing Israel with the security it seeks and can tame Hamas once the territories are evacuated. However legitimate Israel’s national security concerns may be, the Israelis cannot live in fear with paralyzed leadership unable to act in the best interest of the country. The process of developing adequate security and confidence building measures will take few years to develop, and Israel will not be required to withdraw its forces from the West Bank before such measures are in place. But then again, Israel under no circumstance will relinquish its national security to any other agent and will remain militarily vigilant to deter any future enemy. That being said, the Israelis must face the inevitable and begin to build trust with their neighbors. But how they can engender trust by building more and more settlements, by impeding Palestinian movements with hundreds of road blocks, by incarcerating thousands of Palestinians, demolishing homes and above all by denying psychologically any future prospect of letting the Palestinians live as they see fit?

Every day, every month or year that passes will only add to the alienation and disdain toward Israel which has become ingrained in the Palestinian psyche. The zealot settlers have wrested the political agenda, and now Israel’s leadership has allowed itself to become woefully misguided by a group endangering the very premise of why Israel was created in the first place. Israel was meant to provide a home, a refuge for the Jewish people, not to rule other people against their will. Why have there been no demonstrations in the street by Israelis demanding an end to the occupation? How can Israelis revel in the plenty of today and forget the scarcity endured by multitude of Palestinians? Imagine peace with fifty seven Arab and Muslim states and the renaissance that could usher into the region. Imagine Israel and its neighbors engaged in business, cultural and academic exchanges, imagine the power of Israeli and Arab resources put together and the incredible prospect of reaching a new high never known before between both peoples.

It is time for Israel to wake up; do not allow this historic chance for peace to slip away because of complacency or lack of courage. The US and international communities are offering an unprecedented opportunity that cannot afford to be squandered this time around. America has offered its utmost support and the Arab states are ready to assume their responsibility. If Israel is destined to bring light onto other nations, this is the moment.

Amnesty: Israel repeatedly breached rules of war in Gaza
By Yossi Melman, Haaretz Correspondent

Amnesty International has accused Israel of repeatedly violating the rules of armed conflict during its recent offensive against Hamas in the Gaza Strip.

“Israeli forces repeatedly breached the laws of war, including by carrying out direct attacks on civilians and civilian buildings and attacks targeting Palestinian militants that caused a disproportionate toll among civilians,” the human rights watchdog said in its annual report.

The report states that 1,400 Palestinians were killed in the offensive – including 300 children – and that 5,000 people were wounded. The Israel Defense Forces, however, says 1,166 Palestinians were killed, the vast majority of whom were Hamas militants.
Advertisement

The report mentions Israel’s stated goal in the 3-week campaign: The desire to stem rocket and mortar attacks by Palestinian militants on southern Israel. The report goes on to note that three Israeli civilians were killed during the operation, which was in December 2008 and January 2009, in addition to the seven Israeli civilians who were killed by Qassam rockets and other Palestinian attacks launched from Gaza in 2008.

According to the report, the hostilities erupted after suffering the consequences of an Israel-led blockade on the Gaza Strip for a year-and-a-half.

“The blockade throttled almost all economic life and led growing numbers of Palestinians to become dependent on international food aid; even terminally ill patients were prevented from leaving to obtain medical care that could not be provided by Gaza’s resource- and medicine-starved hospitals,” Amnesty said.

The report also accuses Israeli security forces of destroying many Palestinian homes in the West Bank on the pretext that they were built illegally.

Jerusalem-based watchdog NGO Monitor responded to the report by accusing Amnesty International of focusing disproportionately on Israeli policy in Gaza and of not paying enough attention to the cross-border rocket attacks against Israel civilians.

The watchdog, headed by Bar Ilan University Professor Gerald Steinberg, added that Amnesty’s biased and disproportionate obsession with Israel reached its peak during the latest conflict in Gaza.

According to NGO Monitor, Amnesty International published more than 20 declarations during the Gaza offensive, most of them critical of Israel, even while violations of human rights included a massacre of more than 600 villagers by Ugandan rebels in the Democratic Republic of Congo to which Amnesty devoted minimal attention.

Majid,

Good to know that you have me nailed….”a Christian and ardent regime supporter”….Well done, I love it

OTW,

I don’t understand your point. I was just responding to TQ’s comment. I did not express any agreement or disagreement with him, neither was I complaining about the others I mentioned. Does an observation mean anything to you? Otherwise could you explain what exactly you meant by that comment (38)? You lost me. Plus, there is no need to keep reminding everyone about some so-called Syrian peculiarities or particularities that you think no body knows and that you feel the constant urge to explain them over and over again. Give me a break.

Ehsani2, there was no deliberate attempt to nail you. Had it not been for Shami’s curiosity, I’d have left it at that point. If this is the way you feel, then feel free to un-nail yourself.

Shami, Majid ,

What do we agree on and what is that we disagree on ?.

We all agree that there are problems in Syria and things can be better , we disagree on that they are restricted to one religion or ethnic group , we all want Syria to be better but we disagree on who can do that better , I thing that any Syrian with a vision can lead Syria no matter what his religion or ethnic backgroud is , you probably believe that they have to be Sunni, I disagree but does not rules out Sunni as can not be nor that any other can not be , Christian , Alawi , Druz , What matter is their ability and Syria should not be denied the expertise of any Syrian,

Shami ,

I am impressed that you remember that my children do not speak Arabic ,
We live in a small town in the US and schools that teach Arabic are not available ,

I did something about that , My daughter promised me to take Arabic in college and in my will there is a compensation to the descendants that learn Arabic,

As you know in the West , you can not force the Children to do everything you want.

Shami, Majid ,

What do we agree on and what is that we disagree on ?.

We all agree that there are problems in Syria and things can be better , we disagree on that they are restricted to one religion or ethnic group , we all want Syria to be better but we disagree on who can do that better , I thing that any Syrian with a vision can lead Syria no matter what his religion or ethnic backgroud is , you probably believe that they have to be Sunni, I disagree but does not rules out Sunni as can not be nor that any other can not be , Christian , Alawi , Druz , What matter is their ability and Syria should not be denied the expertise of any Syrian,

Shami ,

I am impressed that you remember that my children do not speak Arabic ,
We live in a small town in the US and schools that teach Arabic are not available ,

I did something about that , My daughter promised me to take Arabic in college and in my will there is a compensation to the descendants that learn Arabic,

As you know in the West , you can not force the Children to do everything you want.

Norman,
You get my vote.

Majid,

Thank you, I am not running for anything , I just want Syria to be better , safe and with happy people.

Norman,

So I can nail EHSANI2 but I cannot nail you. In other words, you’re too mercurial. That’s good for you.

I don’t have a happy face to paste. Just imagine there is one.

Majid

nothing peculiar about Syria. It is just that I reject your attempt to link being pro regime with being Christian or with being non-sunni. For weeks now, your posts have been taking a strange sectarian tone, and I do not like that. Lebanon’s confessional system has never been a model I particularly like or want for my country, and defining citizens by their religious affiliation has been alien to me since i was a child. You mentioned that you sensed hostility towards issues in my recent posts, well, this is why. It is because you are an ardent sectarian, if I am to judge by your recent posts.

Excuse me OTW,
Are you making a lecture here or a POV?
Could you make yourself clear again while leaving what you like and dislike aside?
If you like or don’t like something, there is no need to tell us. Please provide a coherent argument.

You last comment is completely ridiculous. Who’s linking what with what? Are you sober?

What kind of nonsense is that and where did you get that idea from?

Someone is christian, sunni, alawi, druze, circassian, or whatever… that’s his business. He wants to talk about it? That’s his business too. He wants to be prejudiced (as in your previous prejudiced comments couple weeks ago)? Then that’s not his business anymore and he needs to be told about his prejudices. You don’t like Saudi beliefs? That’s your business. You want to convince everyone to dislike those beliefs through prejudice? Then that’s not your business anymore. You’re infringing on somebody else’s rights, and you should be made aware.

The above argument applies to anyone except zionists just to be on the safe side. Reasons are well known for this exception

And go back to those previous weeks you mentioned, and you will see that it was not me who initiated any such comments of talking about sects. Even though it is everyone’s right to talk about the subject if he chooses to. And I do not consider myself bound by your dislikes not to respond to him when I find I can contribute to the argument.

OTW,
There are lots of things are `peculiar` and `particular` about Syria and Syrians that we should be really proud of and keep bragging about regardless of what some crazy sectarian opportunist thinks. The best example is the whole conversation that is written here by a non-Syrian and its way of seeing people according to their religions through its ignorance and its unstable mental condition.

The way we Syrians live and think is very advance and unique comparing to other Arab countries.
The same law issue happened in Egypt couple months ago. What happened there was the total opposite of what we are doing in Syria. Syrians are fighting not to include any mention of any religion in the law and they want it to be modern, secular and above all equal for women, while in fanatic Egypt they wanted the law to be more strict, more Islamic religious and Sharia base and against anything secular.

http://almoslim.net/node/110837

So please keep reminding us of that as much as you want and who doesnt like to read that there are millions of sites where they can write their garbage and they will be more welcome than here.

Majid

You are playing games now. Every time you are called for what you wrote, you profess not understanding. My comments are very clear and you know that. Your comments are also clear, and you know that.

In addition to its American Christian author , there are at least three contributors who are Syrian Christians , and all four are ardent regime supporters . So apparently, they don’t mind paying Al Jizya.

This language is very very clear, so please do not profess ignorance and surprise.

Dear Jad

I am not very optimistic about the situation created by the new law proposal. I am afraid that the government may try to ride the rising religiosity among many Syrians to pass this law, which as mentioned by Bassam Kadi is one new episode of the collusion between the government and the male-dominated religious class.

Champress, has failed to even mention the law, as did major Syrian newspapers. Can you imagine that Syrians, who unlike us, will live under such law are not even informed of the existence of a conversation let alone being allowed or invited to partake in it. I am very concerned with this secrecy, and with the continuing behavior of treating Syrians as if they are dumb and are incapable of making their own mind and of handling information. I will wait and see, but honestly, I am not very optimistic.

Ehsani
I am about to be nailed, how does it feel like

OTW,

Here’s a comment I received from your little “confused” friend (on QN’s blog):

“A Russion born zionist (shai) thinks he is smart. Who’s looking for a pat and from who zio-pet? What a deranged state of mind you’re in, especially when you advise another zionist on how to conduct a so-called dialog with Arabs.

So buzz off and discourse solo or to like-minded zios.”

I think he is more than proving his rational open-mindedness. Maybe we are just too sensitive… 🙂

Dear OTW,

I’m not optimistic at all, nothing will be changes and as you wrote earlier that this law will be rubber stamped with some minor changes.
It’s also interesting what you wrote since i had the same impression about this weird secrecy and that the law is not mentioned in any of the Syrian sites and newspaper yet.
I send emails to Champress, Syria-news, Syriasteps, Aksalser asking them about this issue and NONE of them even reply or mentioned this news.
I actually left a comment with the exact same impression you wrote to me on Nesa Syria.
http://nesasy.org/content/view/7372/110/

It is wrong that when we disagree with what the government is saying to have one option and that is to ask the presidency to get involve, let the government deal with it’s own mess and let the civil community deal with it in the most democratic way and start a real open dialog instead of this disgraceful and problematic way.

Shai
Interesting, so you were also nailed, somewhere else it seems 🙂
How is everything?

JAD
None of my posts to champress made it, and they were simple and short. By the way, anyone knows if all4syria is accessible in Syria? Some of the writers still live and work there and posts seem to talk about issues Syrians living in Syria would care about?

Time to open up and if this debacle says anything, it just shows how important it is to have functional unmolested civil society institutions. Over the years (make that decades), the women union has been defanged and it should now be allowed to act as it should as an advocate for women and their rights not as a representative of the government to Syrian women. I am shocked also at the total silence from the Lawyers guild. Individual lawyers are taking risks on their own and some of them are advocating a vibrant and independent guild, but the guild officials are no where to be seen or heard.

At this point in time, this is a proposed law, the moment it is ratified any objection to it will legally fall under the emergency status laws which prohibit attempts to change the laws in Syria. May be everyone knows that It will be passed and they are treating it as if it is so. However, I must raise my virtual hat to every Syrian lawyer who wrote about this law.

The funny thing is also the absence of the conversation from Khaddam’s site. Makes you wonder and to use Trustquest term, who are the bedfellows on this thing?

The law has a few positive aspects, which when read rationally can be discerned, but over all it is a flawed law, written in flawed language.

And that is my take (Norman and Jad, add to my tab)

Shai
A few days ago one of my late night TV channel surfing (usually science, PBS, History, C-Span, an occasional movie and an unhealthy dose of irreverent cartoons such as southpark ) took me to a program called “Connected”. It was a fascinating program about the mathematics of networks and the world of six degrees of separation. It was mind boggling. I thought of you when I was watching that program and thought that you would find it also interesting.

OTW,
You ‘nailed’ it! Everything you wrote is right;

-All4Syria is officially blocked inside Syria but thanks to ‘proxy’ software, many in Syria can read it, but very few comment there and I think of it as the best source of news about Syria since it doesn’t cut and past SANA stories, it deals with everything that really matters and keeping its views balanced, it has the best of Syrian lawyers, intellectuals and averages abou ahmad write there.

-Unfortunately some of the Syrian lawyers are the ones who came with such thing, as I said before, I’m not a lawyer but some specialists point out that this law has couple positive improvement from the old one and they also point out all the flaws that needs to be corrected since it conflict with the constitution and the international treaty Syria signed.
This is a more detailed article about the flaws
http://all4syria.info/content/view/9380/38/

-The problem I’m having is why this government is making it that difficult to discuss the matter openly while it doesn’t conflict with any of our famous political issues and it’s a necessary step for us to socially improve and go some small steps forward, it’s actually in the best of all Syrians and for a better future to do it now instead of postponed the problem.

-Khaddam is an obvious fake voice (I hate him) he is the biggest corrupt liars and he is burned from day one. How about Bashar Soubehi, Ammar Abd Alhameed and others who pretend that they care? I think they are busy in something more important than Syria future. Themselves! Bunch of hypocrites (3allakeen)

-The only people I do respect and trust are the ones are inside Syria that Trustquest always talk about, those are the real Syrians that need to be treated as heroes instead of putting them away in jails for years without any reasons, the authorities must stop doing this terrible treatment for its intellectual, they must work with them instead.

-The Muslim brotherhoods are in favor for such law which will give clergy the upper hand on Syrian lives and that what they want.

And that is my take 2 (Norman we are waiting your take)

Dear OTW,

I’m fine thank you. Haven’t had as much time as I would like to be here on my favorite blog, but every now and then I hop in. we are, of course, still in very difficult and uncertain times in the region. While I’m complaining about Israel’s and America’s indecision towards Syria, very real people are still suffering under my nation’s Occupation. It is almost surreal for me – typing along on my fancy laptop, a mere 1-1.5 hours away from hell-on-earth.

I happen to also love the channels you mentioned (except for C-SPAN, which we don’t get here). By the way, my WordPress-avatar is an image of Imre Lakatos, an Hungarian mathematician and author of “Proofs and Refutations” – a book I think I told you about a number of months back. (Have you had a chance to read it? You’d LOVE it.)

Btw, Yossi and I are trying to offer some more interesting topics on our blog, and a few days ago published a great piece written by JAD about what it’s like being a Syrian. The idea is for Israelis to read authentic, down-to-earth stories written by Arabs about themselves and their countries, and for them to do the same about Israel. So much of the hatred and suspicion is based on ignorance, on simply knowing little or nothing about the “other side”. JAD’s contribution is a nice step, and I hope others will do the same.

You can find it at: http://1r1f.wordpress.com/2009/05/26/213/

I’ll soon publish a little something I wrote as well.

Nice selected verses from the new proposed civil law in Syria:

Fist this is a positive one:
?????? 40 ?? ????? ?????? ?????? ??? ???????? ??? ?????? ??? ??? ??? ????? ??? ?????? ?????? ???? ???? ???? ???? ?? ?? ???? ?????.

The rest is funny and silly:
.
3-???? ??? ???? ???? ?????? ????? ??? ?????? ????? ??? ??? ???? ????? ??? ???? ???? ????? ?? ?????? ?????? ???????? ??? ????? ?????? ??????. ????? ??????? ?? ??? ??????? ?????.
4-???? ?????? ?????? ?? ??? ?????? ?? ???? ???? ????? ?? ?????? ?????? ?? ??? ???? ????? ????????? ???? ?? ?? ????? ???? ????? ?? ?? ???? ????? ?? ?? ???? ?????? ????? ???? ???? ?? ????? ??? ???????? ?????? ????? ??? ????? ?????? ????? ?? ?? ????? ?? ??????? ???????? ??? ??? ??????.

Here is a merchandise transaction, because it is not allowed to examine the merchandise before trade:

7-??? ????? ??? ??????? ?? ????? ????? ?????? ????? ????? ??? ??????? ??? ??? ??????.

Here is a marriage can by used as medicine.

2-?? ???? ???? ???????? ?? ???????? ??? ?? ???? ??? ???? ??? ?????? ??? ?????? ??????:
1-???? ????? ????? ?????? ??? ??? ?????? ?????? ?????? ?? ????? ?? ????? ???? ???? ????? ?? ????.
2-??? ???? ?? ????? ??? ??? ????? ?? ????.
3-?? ???? ??? ????? ?? ?????? ????? ?? ???????? ??? ??????.

Here is something coming from profit time, applicable to Middle Ages:
45
1-??? ???? ??????? ?????? ??? ????? ??????? ???? ?? ???????? ??? ??????? ??????? ???? ?????? ?????? ???? ?? ?????? ??? ???? ?? ??? ??????? ??????? ???????.
2-??? ??? ????? ?? ???? ?? ???? ?????? ???????.

Here is a tricky one, teach men how to be sneaky:
72
??? ??? ????? ?? ???? ?????? ????? ????? ???? ??? ?????? ???? ??? ?????? ?????? ??? ???? ?????? ??????? ???? ????? ?????? ??? ?? ??? ????? ?????? ?? ????? ??????.

In all of this backward law, the emphasis is on the procedure, the sect, the family and inheritance and small part on the poor man and woman who want to merry or their consent which is relatively not of important, their approval and consent is one single item in the pool of laws and religious conditions.

Here is the spirit of the Syrian law which based on collecting money from the slaves who are the Syrians everywhere who if they did not abide by the very sophisticated and well itemized laws governing all aspects of life like the Muslim Religion, then they have to pay the Jezia, which it is not only to be paid by Christians as some thik. We all have been paying jezia for long time and we know who is collecting it, So brother Christians we are in the same smelly place.
????? ??????
?????? ???? ???????
?????? 84
1-?????? ???? ?????? ?????? ??????? ???????? ???? ??????? ???? ????? ????? ????? ???????? ??? ?? ???? ???? ??????.
2-?? ???? ????? ??? ?????? ??? ??? ??????? ????????? ??????? ????? ?? ?????? (76) ?? ?? ??? ???? ???? ?? ??? ????.
3-??? ??? ?????? ??????? ??? ?? ?? ?????? ????? ????? ????? ????? ??? ??? ?????? ??? ??? ???? ??? ?? ??? ????.
?????? 85
?? ???? ???? ???? ???????:
1-?? ????? ???? ?????? ?????????.
2-???? ?????? ??????? ?????? ??????? ????? ????? ?????? ????? ??????.
3-?? ?????? ?? ??? ?? ?????? ??????? ?? ??????? ??????? ?????????.
??????86
1-??? ??? ??????? ??? ????? ??? ??????? ??????? ???? ???? ???? ????? ??? ?? ????? ????? ????? ????? ??????? ?????? ??????? ?? ?????? (24).
2-?? ???? ????? ?? ???? ?? ???? ?? ????? ?????? ??? ??? ??????? ??????? ???????? ?? ?????? ???????.
As you see the Syrian’s law saying to the people: we got you people, pay for your sins.

It is sign of the time that the regime who kept claiming that he is secular produced a sectarian civil law after governing 40 years, it is not irony it is a fact the regime and the system is proving daily he is 100% sectarian.

In all of civil law the real reason for marriage (which is suppose to be LOVE), is none existence.
So the following is not applicable in Syria:

(Name), I take you to be my lawfully wedded (husband/wife).
Before these witnesses I vow to love you and care for you
as long as we both shall live.
I take you, with all your faults and strengths,
as I offer myself to you
with all my faults and strengths.
I will help you when you need help, and
turn to you when I need help.
I choose you as the person with whom I will spend my life.

Please guys, do not blame the government, blame the head who is in control of the government, he control everything and he can not but produce the laws which we have seen along the 40 years.

Of course, I couldn’t go more because my stomach start hurts me.

Before I make my response to TQ this time, and in order to avoid an unnecessary stormy exchange, I ask those concerned to prove to TQ that his interpretation of these laws that he quoted is not correct. Please, provide some logical explanation that the laws have not been designed specifically to accomodate a known reality which reflects the basic sets of beliefs that are of great importance to the people of Syria, if you believe that Syria must strictly fall under secular governance. If you fail to come up with a coherent answer to TQ’s curiosity, could you please explain to him that legislations of fmily laws in a country like Syria MUST respect non-secular beliefs, otherwise an unpleasant social upheaval is a likely outcome? This may satisfy TQ’s curiosity and help keep his idealistic zeal under control.

OTW, Re: your comment 53,
First sorry for the late reply, because I have been away.

No body is playing games here on this end. So make that clearly engraved in your mind and refrain from such childish comments. Neither do I play ignorant because I always say what I want to say and I care the least. Now let’s go to the substance of your comment. You’re saying that because I made the simple observation that three of the regular contributors to this blog are Syrian Christians, then you made the claim in your comment #50 that I’m linking all the Christians of Syria to supporters of the regime?

WOW!!! I am now convinced that something happened to your reasoning. Who, with an atom of reason, can come up with such conclusion?

May be I should have provided a probabilistic statement instead of a simple narration and that would have probably not thrown your reasoning off balance. You see what I am trying to do? I’m trying to find an excuse for you by blaming myself on the way I presented my observation. Will that make more sense to you? May be I should have said that I observed that three Syrian Christians are regime supporters. So based on this sample of the Christian population of Syria I have a confidence of 3/2000000 in linking the Syrian Christians with regime support.

Come on OTW. Your argument is being stretched to absurdity. So close it off and get on to something else.

There is another topic in comment #62. That may provide you with a better challenge. Let us see what you can come up with this time. Let’s hope you go back to being coherent.

Majid,

What do you mean by “they don’t mind paying Al Jizya.”?

Do you mean that the Assadists are not secular enough?

NAFDIK,

Are you following the thread or just singling one comment? As you can see from the comment, I was responding to TQ’s previous comment. So it is TQ who thinks so. I was jus making an observation based on his comment.

This is a good article on the need for a true civil law in Syria which views the people as Syrian citizens and not as members of different sects. This latest proposal on the personal status law is absolutely ludicrous and no effort should be spared to make sure it does not pass.

http://www.syriasteps.com/?d=192&id=36631

?????? ?? ????.. ??????? ??????..!!
28/05/2009

(??? ????? ???? ?? ?????? ??? ???? ??? ?????? ??? ????? ?? ?? ????? ?? ??? ????? ????? ??????).

(?.?) ???? ????? ?????? ?????? ???? ????????? ?? ????? ????? ?? ?????? ?????? ??????? ??? ??????? ?? ??? ?????? ????????? ???? ?? ????? ???????? ??? ???????? ??? ??? ????? ?? ???????? ?? ??? ?? ??????? ?? ?????? ???? ???????? ??? ??? ??? ?? ?? ??????? ???????? ??????? ??????? ?? ?????? ??? ??????? ?????? ??????? ???????.

?? ????? ?? ?? (?.?) ?(?) ?? ??? ??????? ?????? ?? ?????? ????????? ????? ??? ??????? ???? ??????? ?????? ????? ??????? ????? ?????? ??????? (???? ????? ?? ??? ???? ????? ?????).

???? (?): (????? ??? «?» ?? ???? ?????????? ??????? ?? ????? ??? 2000? ?????? ??????? ?? ??? ??????? ?????? ??? ??????? ?? ?????? ????? ????? ????? ???????? ?????? ????? ??? ???? «42» ????? ??? ??????? ????? ?? ????? ????? ?? ????? ????? ?????? ??? ????? ??? ??? ????? ????? ????? ??? ????????).

??????? .. ???? ????????:

??? ?? ???????? ???? ?? ???? ???? ??? ???? (?): (????? ??????? ?? ????? ??? ??????? ??? ??? ??? ?????? ?????? ?? ??????? ????? ???? ?????? ?? ??????? ??????? ???? ???????? ?? ??? ?????? ???? ?????? ????? ??????? ??? ??? ??? ??????? ??? ?????? ??? ???? ?????? ???? ???????? ??? ??? ????? ??? ?????? ???? ??? ?? ???????).

??? ??? ???? (?) ?????? ??? ?????? ?? ??? ???? ?? ??????? ?????? ???? ???? ?????? ?? ?????? ????? ???? ?? ???? ??? ??????? ????? ????? ????? ??? ??? ?????? ???? ??? ??????.

?? ??? ????? ???? ??? ????? ???????? ???? ????? ????? ??? ?????? ????? ???? ??? ????????? ??? ?????? ???? ???? ?????? ?????? ???????? ????????? ??????? ?????? ??? ?????? ?????? ??????? ???????.

??????? ??(?) ?? ??? ??? ?????? ?? ???? ??? ??? ???? ?? ?????? ??????? ???????? ???? ????? ??????? ?? ????????? ??? ???? ??? ???? ?? ???? ????????? ??????? ?? ????? ??????? ?? ??? ?? ??????? ?????? ???????? ???????? ???? ??? ???? ???? ??? ??????.

???? (?): (??? ????? ???? ????? ??? ?????? ????? ?? ???? ?? ????? ??????? ?????? ???? ?????? ???? ???? ?? ??? ???? ????? ????? ??? ??? ?? ???? ?????? ???? ??? ??? ???? ??? ??????? ???? ??? ????? ??? ??? ???? ?????? ?? ??????? ????? ????? ?? ????? ??? ?? ????? ??? ????? ?? ???? ??? ???? ???????? ?? ?????? ??????? ?????? ??? ???? ?????? ??????).

??? ???? ?? ??????? ?? ?????? ?? ?????????

??????? ?? ??????? ??? ?????? ??? ???? (?): (??? ?????? ???? ??????? ?????? ?? ??? ?????? ??? ???? ???? ?? ???? ???? ??? ?????? ????? ????? ???? ?????? «?» ?? ???????? ??? ????? ???? ?????? ????? ?????? ??????? ????? ???? ????? ?? ??? ???????).

???? ??????? ?? ????? ?????? (?) ????? ????? ???? ?????? ?????? ?? ??????? ??? ????? ??????? ?????? ???? (?): (?? ??????? ??? ?? ???? ??? ?????? ?? ?????? ????? ??????? ???? ?? ??????? ??? ????? ????? ?????? ????? ????? ???? ??? ???? ??????? ????).

?? ????????!

??? ?? ??? ????? ????? ?????? ??? ?????? ???????? ?? ??????? ??????? ???? ????? ???? ????? ??????? ?????? ?????? ???? ??????. ???? (?): (??? ??? ?????? ??? ???? «???» ????? ????? ????? ????? ????? ?? ??? ?????).

?? ?? (?) ?(?) ?????? ?? (???????? ??????? ?????? ????? ??? ????? ??????? ??????? ??? ?? ??? ??????? ?????? ???? ????? ?????? ?????? ?????? ??????. ???? ?????? ????? ??????? ???? ?? ???? ????? ?? ??????? ?????? ??? ???????).

???? ???????? ?? ??? ?? ???? ?????? ???? ?? ?? ?? ????? ??? ???????? ??? ?? (?) ?(?) ???? ??????? ??????? ??? ???????? ???????? ?? (?) ????? ???? ??? ????: (?????? ????? ???? ????? ???? ????? ????? ????? ?? ???? ???? ????? ???? ?????? ?? ???? ?? ??????? ??????? ?? ?????? ???????? ?? ????? ?????? ?????? ??? ??? ????? ????? ?? ???? ??? ?????? ??? ???? ?????? ???????).

???? ???????? ??????? ??? ????? ???? ??????? ???????? ??? ?? ??? ???? ?????? ???? ?? ??? ????? ???????? ????? ??????? ???? ????? ????? ??????? ????????.

???? (?): (?????? ???????? ??? ???? ???????? ????? ??????? ?? «???» ??? ???????? ????? ????????? ??? ??? ?????? ??? ???? ?????? ?? ??? ??????? ??????? ??? ???? ??? ???? ?? ?????? ?????? ??????? ??? ???? ???? ????? ???????? ??? ???? ?????? ??????? ??????? ???? ?????? ??? ?????? ?????? ?????? ??????? ???? ??? ?? ???? ?????? ??? ?? ??? ???????? ???? ??????).

???????? ??(?) ??? ????? ??? ???????? (????? ??? ??? ?? ???? ??? ???? ????? ??? ?? ???????? ?????? ?? ????? ?????? ??? ??????? ???? ?? ???? ?? ?? ???? ??????? ??????? ??????? ?? ??????? ?????? ?? ???????? ??? ????? ?????? ??????? ???? ?????? ??? ????? ?? ????? ???????).

(?) ????? ??????? ??????? ?? ???????? ??? ????? ??????? ??? ???? ???? ?????? ?????? ???? ???? ??????? ??? ???? ??? ????? ??? ??? ???????? ???????? ???????? ????: (??? ???? ???? ????? ?????? ??????? ??????? ????? ?? ???????? ?????? ?????? ?? ????? ??????? ???????).

???:

????? ??????? ??????? ?? ??????? ??????? ??????? ???? ???? ???? ????? ???? ??????? ?????? ????? ?? ???? ????? ??????? ??? ???? ???? ????? ?????? ???????? ???????? ??????? ???????.

???? ?????? ?? ??????? ?????? ?? ?????? ??????? ??????? ??????? ??? ????? ??????? ?????? ???????? ?????? ???? ????? ?? ??? ?????? ??????? (???? ??? ????? ????) ?? ???? ????? ???????? ?? ????? ????????? ?????? ???????.

??????? ???? ?? ????? ????? ???????? ??????? ????? ????? ?? ?????? ?? ?????? ?????? ?? ?????? ??? ???? ?????? ???? ?????? ???? ??? ?????? ?????? ??? ????? ?? ??? ???? ?????? ?????? ???? ?? ???? ?????? ???? ??? ?? ??? ?? ???? ????? ???????? ??????????? ????? ?? ???? ?? ??????? ?? ???? ?????? ???? ??????? ???? ???? ?????? ?????? ?? ?? ??????? ?????? ??????? ??? ???? ??????? ???????? ?? ?? ??????? ???? ??????? ???? ??? ?? ????? ???? ??????? ??? ??????? ???? ??????? ??????? ???? ????? ????? ?????? ??????? ???? ??? ???????? ??????? ?? ????? ??????? ??????? ??????? ?? ??????? ????????? ?????? ????????. ????? (??? ??? ???? ??????? ??????? ??? ?? ???????? ??? ?? ???? ??????).

??? ??? ????? ??? ??????? ?? ????? ???? ?? ????? ????? ???? ???? ????? ???????? ??????? ??? ??? ??????? ???? ??? ??? ??? ????? ??????? ?????? ??? ?????? ????? ?? ??????? ?? ????? ???.?

??? ?????

Majed, I wonder how you missed my point. I know how important the sects believes and how much important and I know any disrespect for these tradition could stir upheaval, but my point is that the secular theme adopted by state or claimed by the authority is in contradiction to reality and these laws is the proof. A secular state is a neutral state in the matter of religion and does not intervene in those bodies. Even if they inherited those existing laws, their job is to gradually move away from those laws and put them in the hand of each sect and religious leaders. Their job is to united society by reducing the effect of religion on civil laws. Which they could not do or they are able to do, the existence of the ministry of religion, the teaching of religion in school, the domination of one religion on constitution can not make them even proclaim or raise the slogan of secular state. Since they could not make change in the last 50 years and they could not move society and state into the direction of secular state this makes them a gang not head of state with vision. Now, that said, the recent family laws is a condemnation against their own theme of being secular state. How many times we read on this blog the claim that regime in Syria is a secular regime, google Syria, Secular and find out.
Half a century of claiming secularity exposed clearly in this law. I think the MBs are laughing their heart out now and I do applaud to that. Secular states do not issue religious laws and signed by one of the sect as head of state, this is the funny part.
You asked me if Syria must strictly fall under secular governance, the answer is no but it should gradually move into that zone as all most world states are moving now.

And in response to Nafdik, it does not matter if Assadists are secular or not, they are helpless on even voice their secularity not to mention impose it. And for Jezia, my statement said that all sects and religions are paying Jezia to the regime in the current setting.

Majid,

Now you sound like Pope Benedict-“I never said Islam was violence I was only quoting what some bozo said in the 14th century”-XV1

Majed, I wonder how you missed my point. I know how important the sects believes and how much important and I know any disrespect for these tradition could stir upheaval, but my point is that the secular theme adopted by state or claimed by the authority is in contradiction to reality and these laws is the proof. A secular state is a neutral state in the matter of religion and does not intervene in those bodies. Even if they inherited those existing laws, their job is to gradually move away from those laws and put them in the hand of each sect and religious leaders. Their job is to united society by reducing the effect of religion on civil laws. Which they could not do or they are able to do, the existence of the ministry of religion, the teaching of religion in school, the domination of one religion on constitution can not make them even proclaim or raise the slogan of secular state. Since they could not make change in the last 50 years and they could not move society and state into the direction of secular state this makes them a gang not head of state with vision. Now, that said, the recent family laws is a condemnation against their own theme of being secular state. How many times we read on this blog the claim that regime in Syria is a secular regime, google Syria, Secular and find out.
Half a century of claiming secularity exposed clearly in this law. I think the MBs are laughing their heart out now and I do applaud to that. Secular states do not issue religious laws and signed by one of the sect as head of state, this is the funny part.
You asked me if Syria must strictly fall under secular governance, the answer is no but it should gradually move into that zone as all most world states are moving now.

And in response to Nafdik, it does not matter if Assadists are secular or not, they are helpless on even voice their secularity not to mention impose it. And for Jezia, my statement said that all sects and religions are paying Jezia to the regime in the current setting.

NAFDIK,
First I’ll answer your last comment about Pope Benedict. Then I’ll go back to your previous question that you asked me: Do I mean that the Assadists are not secular enough?

I’ll accept your analogy with the Pope if you admit that you’re calling TQ some bozo. Are you? But I should assume that you’re just using a figure of speech, inappropriate as it is, to highlight your argument.

If I recall correctly, the Pope may have indicated that he actually believed what he said and used the quote to support his belief. You cannot prove that based on what I said in my comment #45. I also draw your attention to reading comment #63. It should convey to you the exact meaning of what I really said in the original comment.

Now let me answer your other question: Are the Assadists not secular enough?

The correct question to ask is: Are the Assadists secular?
My answe is NO. they’re not and they cannot be and they will not be. Are they sectarian? My answer is YES. They always were, they still are and they will always be sectarian.

TQ,

I didn’t miss your point. I was just trying to draw the attention of OTW to the simple fact that Syria is not a secular state as much as he would like to think. Actually I was reinforcing your point.

Majid,
I happen to agree 100% with TQ, why would i try to explain to him that he is wrong?. In fact, sidelining people like him over the past few decades is what got us into the current mess we are in. They have warned that unprincipled appeasement is not pragmatism, and many of them foresaw almost everything we see now. I may disagree with him on few issues, but definitely not on this one. I agree both with his initial comment and with his response to you.

Trustquest

Thank you, that was an excellent argument and I agree with it 100%. I was about to respond to Majid’s comment, but thanks to your eloquent and thoughtful response, You already responded very well and explained my POV better than I could ever do. What I am about to write below is merely my recollection of events that took place when I was a teenager, so some of it may be wrong and I would appreciate any correction from those who were more politically aware than I was in the early 70s. Or from those who managed to read more about the history of that era as written by those who formed and created these events.

I do not know how old are you, but as I said, I was a teenager in the early 70s when the new constitution was drafted and I am aware of the discussion that took place then. The two critical issues that threatened to start a major strife were the issue of the religion of the president and the consideration of Islamic Sharia as the primary source of legislation. If I recall right, the two were not in the 1969 provisional draft, nor in the initial draft of the 1972 new constitution, which proclaimed the Baath Party as the leader of the society and Syria as a socialist state (I am not sure if both articles were an issue, but I am sure about the issue of the presidency). Several delegations went to the palace (as the common word goes) to indicate displeasure and to extract concessions from the new group that took over along with Hafez Assad. While I do not remember the details of what each political group or current position on the issue was, but I remember that there was an inexplicable swift change in the draft that resulted in adding the two articles (or one of them), and the constitution was approved by the newly appointed people’s assembly and later by referendum (the numbner was not the usual 99.9995%). These event attest to a deal through which the supremacy of both Baath and Sharia were affirmed and each side compromised claiming to represent Syrians.

It is possible that Assad, then preparing for the 1973 war, was not willing to confront these issues and start a major internal strife, but some who were older than me at that time felt disappointed that he yielded on these issues. Some argue that there was a deal you accept the supremacy of the Baath, and we accept the supremacy of Sharia. I am not saying this to defend anyone, but merely to tell of what I recall of history. You may be aware of it, and my recitation may serve nothing, but at my age, I like to indulge in memories.

I am in full agreement with you. I believe that a secular state has a hands-off approach to religion. Secularism does not necessarily mean anti-religion. Sharia can be one of many sources of law, but it should not be the primary and/or supreme role. Supremacy means that Sharia, as interpreted by a few self appointed scholars, will trump any other law including those who are in compliance with a country’s international obligations and with human rights. I reject such supremacy and I believe that as long as it is present, chances for moving forward are nill. As for respecting the right of people to live by their religion, this is a completely separate issue, and should not be infringed upon in any way or shape in a secular society.

I have to go now. Catch up with you later. I have always argued that no matter what, we can always find common ground. To me, the future of Syria depends, among many other things, on how far are we willing to trust each others motives (it is probably less relevant to us on the outside than to those on the inside). I try to trust yours and to start with the notion that every Syrian loves Syria, can you try to do the same?

Granted some will love themselves more than they love Syria, but who am I to know? I have to start with good will.

Majid,

I think you bring up a very good point.

In a way I totally agree with you. They are sectarian and have created a sectarian Syria.

Of course their sectarianism has no basis in religion and that is why I would consider them secular sectarian.

By highlighting the sectarian nature of Syrian society, and repressing religious sentiments for decades they are preparing Syria for decades of religious sectarianism, as we see the legacy of the Saddam in Iraq.

I still dislike the fact that you bring up the religion of commentators as it not relevant to the debate.

TQ,

“And for Jezia, my statement said that all sects and religions are paying Jezia to the regime in the current setting.”

I agree with this, I am however careful myself of any use of the word Jezia as in the west there is a big misconception that Jizia is actually practiced in Muslim countries.

Another point about sectarian feelings of Syrians, it has been strengthened by the dictatorship because citizens feel that the closest institution that represents their true needs is their mosque or church as the organs of state are totally unconcerned with their well-being.

NAFDIK,

Good to know that we agree on this point.

Where did I indicate that commentators’ religion is irrelevant?

???? ?????? ???? ????? ????? ??????? ?????? ???????
???? ?????
2009/ 05/ 30
???? ???? ??????? ????? ?? ????? ?????? ???? ?????? ???????? ??? ????? ??????? “???????- ???????”? ?????? “????? ????? ??????? ???????”? ????? ???? ??? ????? ????? ???????? ?? ?????? ?????? ?? ?????? ???? ?? ?????? ???? ??????? ?????? ????????? ??????? ??????? ???? ???? ????? ??? ?? ?? ????? ?????? ?? ?????????? ??????? ???? ???? ?????. ???? ???? ??? ??????? ??????? ????? ??????? ??????? ????? ???????? ???????? ?????? ???? ????? ??????? ?? ?????? (?????)? ???????? ???? ?????? ????????????? ????????.. ??? ??? ????? ????? ????? ??????? ??? ????? ?? ????? ??? ???? ?????????? ??????? ?????????? ??? ???? ??????? ????? ?????? ??? ???? “?????? ???????”? ????? ????? ????? ?????? ?? ???????? ??? ????? ?????? ????? ?????? ?????? ????? ??? ??????? ??????.

????? ??? ?? ???????? ???????:

??? ????? ???? ????????? ?. ???? ?????
????? ??????? ???? ????? ???????
???? ????????? ??????? ???????
??? ?????? ??????? ??? ??? ???????? ???? ???? ???? ??? ????? ????? ????? ??????? ??????? ???? ???? ??????? ?? ???? ??????? ?????? ????? ????? ?????? ??????? ?? ????? ???? ???? ??????? ??????? ??? /2437/ ????? 7/6/2007. ??? ?? ????? ????? ??? ?????? ???????? ???? ??????? ???? ???? ????? ??????? ??????? ?? ?????? ???? ??????? ?????? ???? ?? ?????? ?????? ?? ???????.
?? ????? ??????? ??????? ?????? ?? ?????? (25-26-33-35-36-37-44-45) ?? ??????? ??????? ??????? ?? ?????????? ???? ?????? ????? ?????????????? ???????? ?? ????? ?????? ?????? ??????? ?????? ??????? ?????? ?????? ?? ??? ??????? ?????? ??? ?????? ?? ????? ??????? ??????? ?? ??? ?? ??????? ??? ?????? ?? ?????????? ???? ?????? ????? ??? ???????? ??? ??? ?? ?????? ??????????? ???????? ?????? ??????? ???????? ??????? ??????? ???????? ??????? ?????????? ???????????? ???????? ???? ????? ???????? ????? ???? ????? ??????? ?? ??????.
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http://nesasy.org/

I have personally met Sira Astour ????? ?????? ??????? ????? ?????? She is a remarkable and very energetic force. She has dedicated herself to fighting the despicable “honor killing” as well as working on various issues related to child and violence against women.

Don’t the Muslims pay money to the states or the charities every year , do you know what is called ?,

Al Zakat, the third pillar in Islam.

Al Shahada
Al Salat
Al-Zakat
Sawm Ramadan
Hajj

Norman and Jad
There is Zakat and there is also Sadaqa. Shami may know more about the actual percentages and conditions of each.

Ehsnai 2
If you meet her again, give the lady my deepest respect and regards. I know how hard it is to work under her conditions.

Jad ,

How much of the income is the Zakat and do people pay , and how much is the Jizya,

OTW
As you already know, Al Sadaka is a charity and could be any act of kindness, it can takes the form of money, half an apple, help even a smile while Al Zakat is more of a duty on any rich Muslim to share small percentage of his fortune with the community and it is one of the main 5 pillars of Islam

Norman
Al Jizya, is a kind of tax on any non-Muslim for keeping his faith and be allowed to stay and be protected.
The ammount depends of how close/far strong/weak your religious is according to Alwali.

Zakat applies to Muslims. It is calculated differently for different wealth categories. Before a Muslim is deemed to pay zakat on certain category, he should possess the nisab, or minimum wealth for that category. Categories like personal wealth, agricultural produce, minerals, and live stocks have different nisabs. Once the nisab is achieved for a certain category the zakat is calculated on the excess amount above that nisab. The percentage for each category varies from something like 1% up to 2.5%.

Jizya was levied as a per capita tax on non-Muslim citizens who are able bodied males of military age and possessing wealth. There is no permanently fixed amount for the levy. It could vary from 12 dirham for the poorer like laborers up to 48 dirham for the richest. Slaves, women, children, the old, the sick, the monks, the hermits and the poor were exempt.

Given for information purposes only in the hope it will not be misused to misconstrue Islamic Law.

First, I pay zakat, every year my wife calculate our income based on our bank account for the year and ask for 2.5% of it to be giving as zakat. Usually the Mosque in our area post information regarding this and they specify a minimum of 16 dollar on each person even the toddler.

It seem from reading about Jezia, it was two type Jezia and Khoraj regarding lands, and historians emphasize that both those two items did not exceeded what the Muslim pays. I have no idea about that before and I take it as a face value.
The following is a excerpt from historical article regarding Jezia:

???? ??????????? ?? ????? ?????? ???? ????? ??? ????? ?????? ???????????? ????? ????????? ???? ??????? ?? ????? ?????? ???.
??? ???? ????? ???? ??????? ??? ????? ???? ?????? ???????.
???? ?????? ??????? ?????? ???? ????? ?? ????? ????? ?????? ????????:
??? ??????? ?????? ??? ????? ???? ??????? ????? ???? ????? ??? ???? ???????? ?????? ??? ??????? ??? ????? ????? (?????) ????? ??? ????? ???? ????? ??????? ?? ??? 9 ?????? ? 15 ????? ?? ?????? ?? ??? ???? ????? ???? ?????????(12).
???? ?? ??? ????? ?? ???? ??????? ?? ???? ???? ???????? ?? ??? ?????? ????? ???? ??? ?? ???????????? ??????? ?????? ?????? ???? ???? ?? ????????.
????? ?? ??? ??? ????????? ?? ?????? ??????? ???? ???? ???????. ??? ??? ??? ???? ???????????????? ?????????????? ?? ????? ????????? (??????????????) ?? ???????? ???????.
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?? ???????? ???????? ??? ???????? ???? ??????? ?????????? ???? ????? ????? ??? ?? ???? ??????? ???? ??????? ??? ???????? ?????? ????? ????? ??????? ??????? ???????? ??? ??????? ?????? ???? ??????????????? ??? ?????????? ??? ?? ??? ????? ???????? ????? ???? ??????? ??? ?? ????? ???????? ???????????????? ??? ??? ???????? ?? ????????? ??????????????? ?? ?????? ??? ?? ???? ?? ??? ????? ????? ?????? ????????? ????????? ??????.

Now the jezia which I wrote about which I said both Muslims and Christians pay currently to the regime is Syria is different, I also have calculated it and found it to be extreme.
Here is how I calculated:
If I considered all the wealth in the hands of the close regime circles as mentioned by Aref Dalila, 100,000 billion dollars by 2003 and this wealth collection or Jezia extended from 1985 to 2003 will equal to 6,000,000 a year. Considering the circle only 25 person this mean they are collecting about 11 dollars from Muslim and Christian a year. Reflecting this number on the average income of Syrian, we get about 9% Jezia to this circle. This is comparing with the Zejia paid in the dark ages looks to me extreme.

I said in my previous comment that zakat is applied on the excess amount of a certain wealth category after achieving nisab for that category. The correct wording, after consulting some authentic references, would be as follows. You have to have a nisab in your possession for a full year. At the end of the year you pay the required zakat for that category based on the full amount in your possession.

Small correction, Jizya was actually higher than what Muslims used to pay and those who did not pay this tax, either had to convert to Islam or face the death penalty.

To All,

Let me see if I understand this ,

People in West pay to the government and they call it TAX , in the Muslim countries both Muslims and non Muslims pay the government , for the Muslims they call it Zakat which is a percentage after a minimum , and the non Muslims pay the government and they call Jizya ,

So basically , people in the Muslim countries , Muslims and non Muslims pay Taxes with a different name , It was probably less than what the people in the West paid which explain the expantion of Islam ,

In conclusion , we should call it Tax in Syria and if people want to donate to their charities (( SADAQA ))then it will be Tax deductible ,

Everybody will be happy , the Muslims will think that they are making the non Muslims pay Jizya (( TAX ))and the Muslims will feel that they are paying Zakat (( TAX )).

And that is my take.

Norman,
I agree with you until this sentence:
(the Muslims will think that they are making the non Muslims pay Jizya) Citizens of the same country shouldn’t be treated differently by their religions and shouldn’t be allowed to think this way. When you lead one group of people to think that they have more privilege over others according of their religions you actually breaking this golden rule(Aldeen lilah wa alwatn lialjamee3)taxes are taxes without a specific name.
Al Jizya was somehow a way to convert locals to Islam at the beginning before later times when some Walis (Fanatic ideas always starts from Egypt, I don’t know why) change it to become more of a discrimination against the minorities and bring all kind of strange rules to the society.

And that is my take 2

Jad,

I agree with you that all people who are citizen of a country (( Syria )) should be treated equally under the law in housing , employment and education without discrimination and without regards to their ethnic ,or religious background , with the same obligations and responsibilities .

Norman,

Please do not confuse history with current situation. All the explanations you were offered relate to ancient practices.

Nobody, to my knowledge, has ever paid 1 Dirham in Jizya anywhere in the world since the end of the Ottoman empire (I expect to be corrected on this by those who have better knowledge of history).

I have not heard a single call in the Muslim world to re-establish the Jizia. (Again I expect to be corrected)

The only people who talk about it are anti-muslim demagogues who are running around trying to show how horrible life is in the Muslim world for minorities.

Just to clarify again, Jizya was gone in the Muslim world much earlier than racial segregation in the US.

TQ,

Where did you get that figure of 100,000 billion dollars you said is in the hands of 25 people? Are you (or is Aref) sure you (he) didn’t misread the figure by few zeroes (to the right side of course)? 100,000 billion dollars is actually 100 trillion dollars. You know how much money that is? Even China doesn’t have that much cash in its hands. The world would be swimming in green backs!!!

Norman,
Up until your comment 84, I thought you understood Muslims and Islam better than that. To begin with, I do not think Muslims want to make non-Muslims pay Jizya again. Secondly, Muslims are not that stupid to be convinced that paying Taxes to the Government is the same like paying Zakat. Muslims regard present day Governments as Islamically illegitimate or legitimate to varying degrees. So these Governments in general cannot collect Zakat. Why do you think TQ pays Zakat to his Mosque And I know many Muslims who do the same even here in the West.

It looks like NAFDIK reinforced my comment before I posted it. Thanks NAFDIK.

Nafdik,

Would applying the Sharia laws by Muslims who are calling for that include Jizya for non Muslims.?

Nafdik,

You still didn’t answer the question I asked you in comment 72.

(I have not heard a single call in the Muslim world to re-establish the Jizia. (Again I expect to be corrected)
ONLY IN EGYPT
“Dr. Amani Tawfiq, Professor at Mansoura (Egypt) University: “If Egypt wants to slowly but surely get out of its economic situation and address poverty in the country, the Jizya (head or poll tax that early Islamic rulers demanded from their non-Muslim subjects) has to be imposed on the Copts,” declared in a press statement by a university professor, who is supposed to be in the highest of levels of the educated society, and who is also expected to be a civilized person due to her educational position.”
“It happened and was demanded before by the “banned”Muslim Brotherhood, two days before the first round of election. Also the Muslim Brotherhood’s official candidate for Shoubra, north of Cairo, declared that within the program of his movement, the Copts should pay the Jizya, and wanting to reassure the Copts, he added that the Muslims also will pay the Zakat (alms for the poor). He then went on to assure the Muslims, “our Zakat is more than their Jizya”

Talking about history doesn’t automatically means anti any religion, all religions, all nations and all kingdoms of this world did and still doing lots of mistakes, we need to accept our history with it’s good and bad so we can do better and progress.

JADman, please see Boaz’s response on 1R1F…

6 Dead in Fatah-Hamas Clashes in West Bank: http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3723564,00.html

Magid,
I mean 100 billions, and the computation based on 100 billion, and the reference is: http://www.geocities.com/montadaatasi/dalela.htm

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????? ??????? ???? ???? ??????? ??????? ????? ?? ????? ??????? ?????? ???? ????? ?????? ???????? ???? ?????? ?????? ???? ???? ????? ?????? ?? ??? ????? ???????? ?????? ??? ?????? ??????? ??? ????? ???? ???????? ???????.
?????? ????????? ????????? ??? ?????? ?????? ???????? ?? ????? ????? ??????? ?????? ????? ????? ???? ?????? ???????? ????? ????????? ?????????.
???? ?? ????? ??????? ?????? ?? ??? ??????? ???????? ???? ?? ????? ???????? ????? ???? ?? ???? ??????? ????????? ???????? ??? ?? ??????? ????? ???? ????? ????? ????? ?? ???????? ?? ??? ??? ????? ??? ?????? ?? ??????? ???????? ?? ????? ?? ???? ?????? ?????? ??? ???????? ??????? ??? ???? ?? ??????? ?????? ??????? ???? ??? ?? ???? ??????? ????????. ?????? ?? ?? ????? ??????? ??? ??? ???? ???? ??? ????? ????? ?? ?????? ??? ????????? ???????? ?????? ????? ??? ????? ?? ?????????? ??? ??? ??? ???? ????? ??? ??????.

http://all4syria.info/content/view/9588/96/

This is so terrifying. The thought that the government has chosen to act in such a manner is really awful. Imposing a set of regulations for the Christians, while allowing the Muslim community to go on controlling its familial issues reeks of a two class society. How could this happen? Reader Jad mentioned the Ottoman period, and I must say that my readings on the Ottoman era give a different impression. The state didn’t attempt to control the familial aspects of the lives of communities.

???? – ????? ???? ????? ????? ?????? ????? ??????? ???????

??? ( ???? ?????)
02/ 06/ 2009
???? ???? ????? ?? ???? ????? ??? ????? ?? ????? ??? ????? ???? ???? ??????? ???? ?????? ??? ??? ??????? ?????? ???? ????? ?????? ????? ????? ????? ??????? ??????? ?????? ?? ????? ???? ???????? ???? ????????? ???? ???? ??? ???? ??????? ?????? ????? ?? ??? ????.

????? ?? ????? ???? ????? ??????? ?????? ????? ??????? ??????? ?????????? ??? ????? ??????? ??????? ?? ?????? ????? ?????? ?????? ??????? ??????? ??????? ?? ???? ???? ???? ??????? ??? ????? ????? ?? ????? ??????? ???? ??? ?? ????? ?????? ???? ????? ???? ??????.

????? ???? ?????? ???????? ?? ???? ?????? ?? ??? ???? ??????? ????? ?? ????? ?????? ???????? ??? ?? ?? ????? ???? ????????? ??????? ?????? ???? ??????? ??????? ????? ???? ?????? ??????? ????? ??????. ??? ???? ?? ????? ??????? ???????? ?? ????? ?????? ?????? ?????? ?????? .

??? ???? ???? ???? “???? ?????” ?? ????? ???????? ?? ????? ???? ???? ???? ?????? ????? ??????? ??????? ?????? ????????? ???? ??????? ?????? ??? ????? ???? ???????? ????? ?? ????? ???????? ???? ???? ????? ??????? ?? ????? ???????? ??? ??????? ?????? ?? ???? ?????? ???????? ??? ????? ??? ?????? ????? ??????? ??????? ???? ?? ??? ???? ?????? ???????? ???? ????? ???????.

????? ?? ???? ????? ???? ??? ?? ???? ??????? ???? ?? ????? ??????? ?????? 27 ???? ?????? ??? ???? ?? ??? ?????? ???? ????? ??????? ??? ??????? ????????? ??????? ???????? ????????? ???????? ????? ????? ??? ????? ???? ???? ????? ?? ???? ???? ????? ?? ??? ?????? ???????? ????? ?? ????? ???????.

http://all4syria.info/content/view/9680/96/

Why this strange secrecy continues, they have to open up this issue, who are this new committee Mr. Outri is forming? who are the members, their names and their background? what is their experiences? Who and what do they represent? What parties?
What are the points they are going to work on and for how long?
Is there going to be any public hearing before they publish another version of the same backward law they come with now in couple months/years from now so we come back here and write the same protesting messages and complains?
I bet will do the latter unless they make this important issue as translucent as possible and it must be a collaboration work with every possible component of our mixed Syrian society.

????? “???????” ???????: ??? ???? ????!
??????? ???? ????
2009/ 06/ 02
?????? ??? ??????? ?????? ??? ??? ??? ?????? ????? ??? ???? ?? ??????? ??? ???????? ?? ??????? ???? ?? ?????? ?????? ?? ???? ??????? ?? ????? ?????? ??????? ????? ??? ??? ??? ???? ???????! ?? ??? ?????? ?? ??????? ?????? ??? 59 ???? 1953 ?????????! ??? ????? ???? ??? ????? ??????? ????? ??? ????? ?? ??? ?????? ??????. ?????? ?????? ??? ??? ??????? ??? ???? ?????? ??? ??????.

?? ?? ?????? ?????? ?????? ???? ???? ???? ?????? ???????? ???? ????? ??? ?? ??? ???? ?????????? ??????????.. ??? ?????? ??????????? ????? ?????? ?????? ?????? ????? ??? ?????? ???? ??? ??????? ?? ???? ???? ??? ??? ?????? ???? ??? ?????.

???????? ??? ??? ?????? ????? ??? ?? ???? ??????? ???? ?? ??????! ??? ??? ?? ?????? ?? ??????? ?????? ???? ???? ????? ??????? ???? ????? ??? ????????? ??? ???? ??? ??? ??????? ??????? ??? ??????? ??? ????????? ???? ??? ??? ?????. ???? ?? ??? ???? ??? ????????? ????? ????? ??? ?????? ????? ??? ?????? ??????? ???????? ????. ??? ???? ???????? ???? ????? ???? ??? ????? ????? ..

??????? ??? ???? ???? ?????? ???? ??? ????????: ????? ???????? ?????? ?????? ???????? ?????? ???? ????????? ?????? ?????? ????????.. ??? ???????? ?????? ??????? ??????? ??????? ???? ????? ??????? ???? ?????? ???? ?? ???????!
??? ??? ???? ?? ???? ?????? ???????. ??? ?? ???? ?????? ???? ?? ???? ?? ?????? ?? ???????? ??????? ????? ?? ?????? ????.
??? ?? ????????? ???????? ???? ????? ????? ??????? ??????? ??????? ???????? ?????? ????? ???????? ???? ????? ????? ??? ??? ??????? ???????? ?? ???? ????????? ?? ?????? ??? ???? ????? ??? ????? ??? ???????? ?????? ???? ????? ??? ??? ????? ??????? ???.

?????? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???? ??????? ????? ????? ?? ?????? ??????? ????? ??????? ????? ?????? ?????? ??????? ??????? ??? ??? ??? ?????? ??????? ?????? ???? ??????? ???? ???? ???????? ???????? ??????? ????? ?? ???? ?????? ??????? ??? ???? ?? ????? ??? ?????.

??? ??????? ?? ???? ?? ?? ???? ?????? ????? ??????? ?????? ?? ???????? ??????? ???? ?? ??????! ????? ?????? ??? ??? ????? ???????? ?????? ?????? ??????? ????????? ???????? ?? ??????. ??? ???? ??????? ??????? ??????? ??????? ??????? ??? ??? ?? ??????? 60? ? ???? 1936!

?????? ???? ???? ????? ???? ?? ????? ??? ???? ??? ?????? ?? ??????? ???????. ???????? ???????? ??????? ????? ??? ?? ???? ??? ???? ?????? ????? ?? ????? ??????? ?????? ??????? ????? ??? ????? ???? ?????.

??????? ??? ???? ???? ??????? ?????? ??? ??????? ???? ????? ???? ?????? ???? ????? ??? ???? ???????? ????? ??????? ?? ???? ?? ???? ??????? ??? ?? ???????? ???????? ??????? ?? ??? ??????? ????? ??????? ?? ?????? ???? ???? ???? ??????? ??? ?????? ???? ??? ?????. ??? ???????? ?????? ??? ?? ??? ??????? ???????? ???? ?????? ??????? ????! ???????? ??? ??????? ????? ?????? ????? ?????? ???? ?????.

???? ?? ?? ???? ?? ???????! ??? ??????? ??????? ?? ?? ????? ????? ????? ??????? ???! ???????? ??? ????? ??????? ????????? ?????. ???? ???? ?? ???? ?????? ??? ????? ??? ??? ???.

?????? ????? ????? ????? ??????? ???? ?????? ?????? ?????? ????? ???? ?????. ?????? ?? ?????? ????? ?????? ??? ????? ??????. ??? ??????? ?? ?????? ?????????. ??????? ?? ????? ??? ??????? ???????? ???? ??????? ???? ????? ??????? .

???? ??????? ?? ?????? ?? ????? ??????! ?????? ????? ???? ???? ????? ?????? ?????? ???? ????? ?????? ?????? ????? ?????? ?????? ?????? ?? ??????????? ???? ??? ???? ??????? ??????? ????????? ?????? ????? ????? ??? ?? ?????? ??????? ??? ?? ????? ?????? ?????? ?????? ????? ?????? ???? ?????? ????? ??????? ????????!
??? ???? ????? ??? ????? ????? ?? ???? ?????. ?????? ???? ????????! ????? ?? ???? ??? ???? ?????????! ??? ????? ??????? ????? ????????? ??? ??????? ??????? ??????? ??????? ?????? ???????? ???????? ??????? ??????? ???????..

????? ????? ??????? ??? ??? ?? ???? ?????? ??? ?????? ??? ?????? ????? ??? ?? ???? ??? ??? ???????! ???? ?????? ?? ???? ??????? ????! ????? ?? ????? ?? ???? ????? ???????! ??? ???? ?? ?????? ???? ???????!

???? ????! ??? ???? ????? ?? ?? ????? ?????? ??????? ????? ??? ???? ??? ????? ?????? ????? ?.. ?… ????? ??? ???? ??? ??? ?? ?? ????? ??????! ??? ?? ???? ??????? ??? ??????! ??? ?? ??????? ????.. ????? ????? ????.. ??? ???? ?????????! ?????? ?? ??? ?????? ?? ?? ?????..

??? ??????? ???? ?? ??????? ??? ???? ?????? ????? ???? ???? ???????? ??????? (??????)! ??????? ?? ??? ???????? ????? ???? ????? ?? ????? ??? ???? ?? ???? ??? ?? ??????.. ???? ????? ?????? ?????? ??????.. ?? ??? ?? ????? ??????? ??? ??????: “?????”!! ????? ????!

??? ????? ?? ?????? ?? ???? ???????? ??????? ?? ??????? ????????? ??????. ??? ??? ?? ???? ?? ?? ?? ???? ????? ??? ???? ????? ????? ???? ???? ?????? ??? ??? ????????? ???? ??? ?????? ????? ???? ???????.

??????? ???? ????? (????? “???????” ???????: ??? ???? ????!)

???: ???? ?????

http://nesasy.org/content/view/7413/336/

???? ??? ????? ????? ?????? .. ??? ?????

???? ???? – ???? ?????
03/ 06/ 2009
?? ?? ??? ????? ?????? ?? ????? ????? ????? ???????? ?????? ??????? ?????? ?? ?? ????? ?????? ?????? ??????? ???? ??? ????? ???? ?? ??? ????.
????? ????? ??? ??????? ???? ??????? ??? ????? ????? ??????? ??????? ??????? ??????? ??? ????? ??? ??? “?????? ??????” ???? ????? ?? ???? ?? ????? ?? ??? ?????? ????????? ??????? ??? ??? ??????? ??????? ?????? ???? ??????? ????????? ?? ???? ?????? ????? ??? ???????.

???? ?????? ??????.. ????? ?? ???????? ?? ?????? .. ??????? ?? ????? ????? “?????? ?????” ?? ??????? ?????
????? ?????? ?????? ?? ?? ????? ????? ??????? ????? ??? ???? ????? ??????.. ?? ??? ?? ??????? ? ..
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???? ?? ??????? ???????????? ???? ???? ?? ?????? ???? ??????? ?????? ???????? ?????? ?? ????????? ???????? ?? ????? ?? ?????? ?? ??? ????? ??????? ??? ???? ?????? ?????? ?????? ????? ????? ??? ?? ????? ?????? ????? ????? ?? ?? ????? ????? ??????? ???? ??? ???????? ?? ????? ???????? ?? ????? ?????? .. ??? ? .. ??? ?? ??????? ??????? ?????.
??? ?? ????? ?? ?????? ?????? ??????? ?? ?????? ???????? ??????? ?????? ??? ???? ????? ?? ????? ??????? ????? ????? ??????? ??? ???? ????? ?????? ??????? ????????? ???? ???? ???????? ??????? (?????? ????? – ?????? ????? – ??????? ????? ??????? ..???) ??? ?????? ????? ??? ?????? ??????…
??????????? ?? ?? ??? ????? ?????? ?? ??????? ??????? ????? ???? ???? ?? ???? ??? ???? ??? ???? ?????.. ?? ??? ??? ????? ?????? ????????? ?????? ?????? ???????? ? .. ?????? ??? ????? ????? ???? ?????? ???? ????? ?? ?????? ????? ???? ???? ???????? ?? ???? ?????? ????? 29/ 05/ 2009 ? ????? ??? ??? “??? ???? ?????? ??????? ??? ????? ??????? ?? ?????? ?? ??????? ???? ????? ???? ?? ???? ??? ????? ???????? ?? ??????? ?????? ??????? ?????” .. “??? ???? ?? ??? ??????? ?? ????? ??????? ?????? ??????? ??? ?? ??? ?? ???? ?????? ?? ??? ????? ???? ???? ????? ??? ??????? ?????? ?? ????? ????? ???????? ???? ???????? ??????????”. ????? ??? ??? ???????? ??????????.
??? ?? ????? ?????? ?????? ??? ???? ????????? ????????? ?????????? ???? ??????? ????????? ???? ???? ???? ??? ?????? ?????? ?????? ??????? ????? ????? ?? ??? ???? ????? ??? ???? ?????? ????? ????? ???? ?? ??????? ??? ????? ???? ???????? ?????? ?? ????????? ???? ????? ????? ?? ????? ????? ???? ????? “????? ??????? ???????”..?
???? ?? ???? ??? ???????? ?? ????? ?????? ??? ????? ?????? ???? ??????? ????? ???? ?? ?????? ??? ????? ??????? ??????? ???? ???? ???? ????? ????? ??? ???? ????????? ???? ??? ??????. ?? ???? ??? ???? ?????? ???? ?? ????? ??? ????? ???? ????????? ???? ?????? ??? ???? ????? ? ???? ???? ??? ????? ?????? ?????? ??????? ?????? ????? ?????? ??????? ??????.
?? ?? ????? ???? ????????? ?? ??? ?????? ???????? ?? ??????? ????????? ???? ????? ??? ?? ????? ????? ????? ???????? ???????? ??? ???? ???? ?? ???? ???????? ???? ??????? ?? ????? ????? ?????????? Awareness Foundation” ” ???? ?? ???? ???? ????? ???? ?? ???? ?????? ????? ?? ????? ???? ?? ??????? ????? ?????? ?????? ????? ????? ?????? ???? ?? ?????? ????? ????? ??? ??????? (?????? ????? ?????????: ??????? ????? ?????? ?????? – ???? ????? ?? ????? 31/ 05/ 2009). ??? ?? ????? ??????? ????? ???? ????? ?? ????? ????? ?????? ??? ?? ???????? ????.
???? ???? ????? ??? ???? ???? ????? ?????? ??????? ???????? ??????? ?? ??????? ??? ???? ???? ?? ??? ???? ???? ???? ????????? ??????? ?????? ????? ???????? ????? ?????? ?????? ??? ????? ????? ?????? ????? ?????? (??????? ???? ??????). ??? ?? ??? ???? ?? ?????? ??? ????? ????? ?????? ???? ??? ??? ???? ?????? ????? ?? ????? ???? ????? ??? ????? ??????.
??? ?? ??????? ?? ???? ??????? ???????? ?? ????? ??????? ??????? ????????? ???????? ????? ?????? ?? ????? ?????? ????????? ?? ?? ????? ?????? ??? ??? ???? ????? ????? ???????? ????? ?????????? ?????? “?????” ??? ????? ??? ?? ????? ???????? ????????? ?????? ??????…
??? ?????? ?? ????? ????? ????? ?????? ???? ???? ?????? ??????? ????????? ???????? ?????????? ????? ???? ?????? ???????? ??????? ???????? ??? ?? ?????? ???? ??????? ????? ???????? ???????? ???????????? ??? ???? ????? ????? ????? ?????? ???????? ????? ?????? ???????? ??? ??? ??????.
??? ???? ?? ?? ???? ??????? ???????? ?????? ??? ?????? ??? ?????? ?????? ??? ????? “?????? ??????” ????? ?????? ??????? ????? ??????? ? ?????? ??? ?? ?????? ????? ??????? ?????? ???????? “??? ??????” ?”??? ??????” ?????? ?? ??????? ????????? ???? ??? ??? ??????? ????????? . ?? ?? ???? ?????? ?????? ??? ?? ????? ?????? ?? ?? ??????? ??? ????? “?????? ??????”.
????? ??? ??????? … ?????? ?????? (???? ?????)

???? ???? – ???? ?????

http://all4syria.info/content/view/9711/38/

All related articles about the proposed law in Syria.

???? ????? ?????? ????? ??????? ??????? ??????

???? ?????
03/ 06/ 2009
????? “???? ????? ?? ?????” ????? ?? ??????? ??? ?? ????? ???????… ??? ?? ?????? ??? ?? ???? ?? ???? ?? ????? ?????? ???????? ?????? ?? ???? ????? ????? ??????? ??????? ??????.. ??? ??????? ???? ???? ?????? ???????? ??? ????? ??????? ????? ???????? ???? ???? ????? ?????? ??? ?? ??? ????? ??????? ????? ??????:

???? ?? “???? ?????” ?????? ?????? ??????? ?????? ????? ????? ????? ??????? ??????? ?????? ????? ??? ?????? ???? ?? ?? ???? ??? ??????? ?? ????? ???????? ????? ????? ?????? ?????? ?? ????? ???? ?????? ???????:
http://all4syria.info/content/view/9685/80

Hey Guys,

I know this comment comes a bit too late, but I have to add a critical correction to one of the very first comments:

Michel Shammas (??????? ????? ????)mistakenly claims that the new Personal Status draft law permits polygamy for Christians (“???? ???????”).

This is completely wrong.

He cites as evidence Article 639 which states that: “Each spouse may ask for divorce on account of the other’s adultery, or a second marriage.” (“???? ??? ?? ??????? ?? ???? ??????? ???? ??? ????? ?????? ?? ????? ??????”) However, it is clear that the “second marriage” referred to here is an illegal, invalid, or unrecognized “marriage” performed without the consent either of the other spouse or the state.

We know this because, as Mr. Shammas himself notes in the very next line, Article 624 very explicitly prohibits multiple marriages: “Neither spouse may take another in marriage as long as he/she remains married”. (“?? ???? ???? ??????? ?? ???? ????? ??? ?? ??? ????? ?????”)

Article 639, providing the grounds for divorce, does not speculate as to how a man or woman might accomplish a “second marriage”–trickery? fraud? bribing the judge? going to another country?– but we know that such an act is illegal as stipulated by the preceding Article 624.

The idea, in summary, is that polygamy is illegal for Christians. Period.

With respect to Mr. Shammas, there are so many real, morally repugnant aspects of the Personal Status draft law that we don’t need to manufacture imaginary ones.

?? ???? ????? ??????? ????????? ????? ???????…?? ??? ????? ???? ???? ?????. ???? ?? ??? ?? ?? ???? ??????? ?? ?????? ??? ??????? ??????? ???????? ??? ???? ???????? ????? ??????? ???? ??? ???? ????????…

You can read the rest of the draft law here:
http://nesasy.org/content/view/7366/336/