Mr. Sanger’s analysis is deeply flawed. If Bush were afraid of an armed confrontation with Iran would he have approved the Israeli strike knowing full well that it may lead to war with both Syria and Iran? Of course not. Bush is just waiting for Syria and Iran to make a mistake.

AIG,

What mistake is he waiting for exactly? He’s already claimed that Iran is building Nuclear weapons, arming Iraqi insurgents, and killing US soldiers. Why doesn’t he just attack? What is he waiting for? I really don’t know what mistake he’s expecting Iran to make.

Simohurtta said in response to another post.

With information with Osirak Israel didn’t hesitate. They “painted ” to the public a picture where Israel on the last second had boldly destroyed a full scale nuclear weapon program. Naturally Israeli propagandists do not want the world to remember, that Osirak was a small experimental light water reactor under IAEA supervision.

The US/Israeli “sources” are frequently saying that Middle Eastern countries minus naturally Israel do not need nuclear energy because they have so much gas and oil. That is a rather weak excuse, remembering that USA was ready to sell 10 nuclear power stations to the Shah, that enlightened democratic leader. Also on economical basis the excuses is rather amusing. If one can produce energy cheaper with nuclear energy than using gas and oil, why use income brining assets.

He raises a very important point that has got me close to tearing my hair out with frustration.

Len Waverman in the Roeller Waverman equations about economic development shows the economic growth mainly depends on Teledensity, Electrical Power Generation capacity and km of hardtop roads.

You will have read of the power outages in Syria this summer casued by the drought in Turkey cutting back on the available imports of electrical power from Turkish hydro generation. This interferes with delivery of reliable up to date telecommunications.

Global warming means that hydroelectric generation of electrical power needs to be reviewed because of the loss of river water due to increased evaporation from the reservoirs.

Nuclear generation remains then the only reliable source of power.

If the seven million inhabitants of Israel can have a practical veto (by F-15 and laser guided bomb) over the economic development of anyone of the 200 million living within 2000 km of the place then there is a major problem.

Mr Ahmedinejad has done the world a service by highlighting the question, and by undermining the myth that Islamic states are industrially backward by cooking his own home grown (he has a mine in the middle of the country) Uranium.

Why is the IAEA asking Syria about the non existent nuclear stuff?

Shouldn’t the ask those who spread the rumours about their sources?

After reading the informative and assuring comments by some vey knowledgabel commentators here on Syria Comment and the various reports in the Knowledgable US media, I am now leaning towards the Theory that Syria is not only developing atomic weapons, but does heve few in its arsenel. Premitive ones maybe, but Nucks anyway.

So, pleases, pretty please, Super Neo-con Power Mr. Bush and Mr. Victorious Olmert, cut the crap and start acting instead of just talk! Do and DO something about it to finish off this naughty country. Past and Current experience proved that Threats and Talk, coming especially from the both of your camps will get you no where.

P.S.

That is, If you dare and if you have the capabilities to do it in thight of the prevailing military and political realities in the area.

Best Regards

I am now leaning towards the Theory that Syria is not only developing atomic weapons, but does heve few in its arsenel.

Ausamma,

No, it couldn’t be! Did you and the chorus here say the whole Israeli operation was a failure and that their attack was some neocon-manipulated farce and “disinformation” campaign? Isn’t the esteemed Arabist Ray Close (whoever he is) correct by stating the neocons are trying to instill fear on the helpless Americans?

Surely you can’t be serious!

B asks:

Why is the IAEA asking Syria about the non existent nuclear stuff?

This looks like a question for Ausamma (which is a very popular name today in the Middle East).

Nour asks:

What mistake is he waiting for exactly? He’s already claimed that Iran is building Nuclear weapons, arming Iraqi insurgents, and killing US soldiers. Why doesn’t he just attack? What is he waiting for? I really don’t know what mistake he’s expecting Iran to make.

Answer:

Sneezing. GWB will acts the next time Iran sneezes. I found this in a Sy Hersh article.

Nour was asking a question earlier about what GWB is waiting for. Dare I put forth the idea that the United States and Israel actually “cannot” do anything? I don’t buy the idea that the war last year was a half hearted attempt at Hezbullah. I also don’t believe the United States is not seriously attempting to consolidate it’s control of Iraq. Can we not argue that in fact they are unable or am I being naive and missing something out?

Websites Professors of Middle East studies and jihadist sympathizers don’t like to participate on:

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=27528_IAEA_Springs_Into_Action_Contacts_Syria#comments

Akbar the Littlegreenfootballs “forgets” strangely the other essential part of IAEA spokeswoman’s message. And stops quoting the news where it fits for the men with small balls. Either it is an primitive attempt of making propaganda or little men can read only short stories.

The next chapter of the news by Reuters, which LGF did not want its readers to see, is:

“We would obviously investigate any relevant information coming our way. The IAEA Secretariat expects any country having information about nuclear-related activities in another country to provide that information to the IAEA.“

That includes Israel and USA. Doesn’t it Akbar.

In total the Reuters news can be read through this link.

Littlegreenfootbals quite a good name your club has chosen, describes your team well. Now I understand better where you have learned your rather limited argumentation skills, the sites comments intellectual level is simply astonishing. Examples

Pro-Bush Canuck 10/15/07 3:04:34 pm

Well Sox and Cleveland coming right up. Almost time to fire up the plasma…

bulwrk 10/15/07 3:07:16 pm

well come on down loading porn takes up alot of their time.

jcm 10/15/07 3:09:54 pm

IEAE, looking for a Syrian reactor?
Ask the IAF for the coordinates of a smokin’ hole.

By the way Akbar who wants read 396 messages with such stupidity? After reading one hundred messages I stopped and began really to worry about the education level of US “republican voters”.

LitteGreenFootballs won the “Best Israel Advocacy Blog” award from the Jerusalem Post in 2005. Shows the quality of the few Israel supporters around the world.

http://info.jpost.com/C005/BlogCentral/JIB.2005/vote1.advoc.html

Simply astonishing …

Nour,

Bush cannot attack until he has convinced the American public that all diplomatic options have been exausted. Of course, if Iran or Syria attack first, he will have a right to react immediately. That is the mistake he is waiting for.

Israel has justed bombed Syria. Yet some people are saying Israel cannot do anything. Are you serious? What has been proven is that the Syrian and Iranian air-defenses are not worth anything and that the attack will be easier than anticipated.

AIG

What has been proven is that the Syrian and Iranian air-defenses are not worth anything and that the attack will be easier than anticipated.

Then US should go ahead, bomb Iran and allow Israelis, or what will be left of them, to live happily ever after with no more threats.
I wonder if you’ll still be here to tell us about the experience of receiving hell on your head.
Come on, be serious, a war with Iran may be the end of Israel and the US and Israel administration know it very well. Both have learned a lesson of humility in Iraq and the July 2006 war.

Tzipi and Condie are very good friends, and Tzipi eagerly wants to become the next prime minister. Both of them are determined and struggling against men opposing a peaceful approach: Olmert and Cheney. Let see if women power will give a new impetus to a peace process.

Why,

You are delirious. What can Iran do except send missiles? You forget that Israel was under attack in 1991 and 2006 and while the missiles are no fun, they are certainly not an existential threat.

So what if the Iranians will fire hundreds of missiles? Because of the distance, Israelis will have ample time to get into shelters. It will take at least 2 hours for the missiles to get to Israel after launch. Israel will quickly rebuild, just as we did after the July war and the Israel’s economy will hardly be bothered.

An attack by Iran on Israel would be a reasonable price to pay to get rid of the Iranian nuclear threat. Israel is used to making sacrifices for its security. And yes, if the diplomatic options fail, Iran will be attacked.

This is from Ray Close a an CIA analyst and this from Informed comment of Juan Cole
Retired CIA analyst of Arab affairs Ray Close tells us what he thinks about it all:

“This is my Monday morning (speculative) analysis of the mysterious Israeli air attack on Syria on September 6, 2007 . . :

1. The Israelis offered us intelligence that Syria is beginning to develop a nuclear capability based on North Korean technology. They urged the US to cooperate with them in mounting a military attack to destroy the Syrian site. The advantages of this action, as presented to the Bush administration with great urgency by the Israelis, would be:

a. To preempt a new and dangerous violation of Israeli and American proliferation red lines before the Syrian program gets too far along (citing the Iranian experience for justification);

b. To intimidate and embarrass Syria; throw a scare into Iran; and restore Israel’s deterrence credibility. (The historic examples of dramatically successful and awe-inspiring Israeli operations at Entebbe and Osirak, among others, still have great psychological and emotional impact.)

2. The more cautious and thoughtful members of the Bush administration opposed offering Israel the full participatory collaboration of the United States on the grounds that:

a. The Israeli intelligence in this case was not entirely persuasive, recalling instances of flawed intelligence of similar origin that misinformed some key US actions before and during the Iraq war;

b. If covert US-Israeli collaboration in this operation (technically an act of war) were actually proffered, this would eventually become known. The accuracy and authenticity of the Israeli intelligence on which the operational decision was justified would (in the absence of more credible supporting evidence from independent US sources), become the subject of heated public debate all over the world, and opponents of the Bush administration would argue with potentially devastating effect that this was final proof that Bush neocons have continually (in fact, going back many years) been duped by deliberate Israeli disinformation operations aimed at scaring America into adopting a policy of more overt and aggressive military cooperation with Israel;

c. Even if the Israeli intelligence were finally revealed to contain some credible evidence of Syria’s long-range ambitions to obtain nuclear weapons and of North Korea’s culpability in abetting those plans, the revelation of US-Israeli covert military collaboration against Syria at this critical time would, over the short term, endanger George W. Bush’s desperate hopes of achieving some dramatic diplomatic successes before the end of his administration —- most importantly with respect to North Korea and next month’s planned Middle East Peace talks here in the US.

3. Ongoing heated arguments within the administration over whether or not to coordinate US and Israeli actions and reactions in this instance have been won, at least temporarily, by the side that gives higher priority to preserving and sustaining the diplomatic efforts, on the grounds that short-term progress in both the North Korean and Israeli-Palestinian situations should trump, at least for the time being, the acknowledged high value also attached to the more aggressive alternative measures urgently and vigorously advocated by the Olmert government in Israel and by Israel’s supporters here in the United States.

4. There are undoubtedly some Democratic notables, in key Congressional positions of leadership and on the electoral hustings, who have been officially briefed (or who have been independently informed by interested third parties) of the whole set of considerations outlined above, and who have, for reasons best known to themselves, decided to support the more cautious objective of keeping this potentially explosive issue under wraps for as long as possible. (I don’t discount at all the possibility that some support, probably in the form of technical intelligence, was nevertheless indeed provided to the Israeli planners by the US before or during the bombing operation. That just qualifies as a small skeleton in the closet compared to the backlash we would suffer for active operational collaboration in such an undertaking.)

Personally, I believe that the most persuasive reason for studied silence on this subject, on the part of both Republicans and Democrats, is the reluctance (call it fear) of individual politicians that they might be put in a position of appearing to criticize Israel for poor judgment (or even deliberate deception), and thereby appearing to oppose intimate collaboration with Israel (yes, even in acts of illegitimate preemptive military action) against “supporters of terrorism”.

I would add the following personal comments to my analysis of the situation:

Having dealt with Arabs for more than fifty years now, often in situations very similar to this one,I have no trouble understanding why the Syrian reaction to the Israeli bombing attack last month has been carefully muted. Asad cannot afford a military confrontation with Israel at this time. His air force and army could be effectively wiped out by the IDF in a few hours. And he has no desire to broadcast the fact that his air defense forces (some of which, I am told, consist of very expensive new ground-to-air rocketry purchased from Russia but not yet operational) were impotent to respond in the face of such a deep and brazen Israeli penetration of the Syrian motherland. It would be plainly foolhardy for the Syrians to attempt confrontation with the IDF when their military establishment is in such a parlous state as it is today. I therefore find it perfectly understandable that Asad has chosen not to fly off the handle over this incident, and why his Arab neighbors and supposed brothers in arms have likewise decided that the better part of valor is to pretend they haven’t noticed.

I recall in the period right after the 1973 Yom Kippur War, when I was in liaison with the Saudis, that the Israeli Air Force used to make frequent very low level runs over the Saudi airbase at Tobuk, in the northern part of the country. As they skimmed the “deck”, they would drop empty fuel tanks on the runways, near where the Saudi fighter planes were lined up, just to remind those on the ground that the empty tanks could very easily have been 500-pound bombs. It was nothing more than an arrogant demonstration of contempt for Saudi impotence. It worked. The RSAF never fired a shot, and never scrambled a single interceptor. They would complain to me, and I would duly forward their protests to CIA HQS. We never got even a polite acknowledgement back from the Israelis, who, in their arrogance, were no doubt cynically amused. So I can easily imagine Bashar al-Asad’s decision to play this current incident in a very low key! It is not a mark of cowardice, but of realism and prudence.

Similarly, I recall when Prince Fahd bin Abdal Aziz called me to a meeting very late one evening in the early days of the 1973 war and asked me to send an urgent personal message from him to Richard Nixon informing the president that he had felt obliged to contribute a brigade of Saudi troops to the Golan front to support the Syrian offensive there, but that he had personally instructed the commander of the unit not to fire a single shot. That, Fahd told me with considerable emotion and obvious sincerity, was his solemn promise to his American friend. Again, prudence, wisdom, and desire to maintain a traditional and mutually valuable relationship — motives that were not, I regret to say, received in Washington with the respect and appreciation that they deserved. ”

-Ray Close

AIG –

Please stop taunting the jihadist sympathizers and the “Shabbos Goy”. Can’t you give them some hope at destroying Israel?

—-

Observer,

Thanks for linking that Ray Close article again. I feel the more I read it the more I sympathize with Saudi Prince leader.

Akbar Palace,

you mentioned the words “Shabboos Goy?” above. What the heck does those words mean in plain English? This site -as you may have correctly suspected- is not an AIPAC get toghether where using Yeddish words is considered an advantage.

For me, the only Yeddish word relvant to Israel and Zionism that I know is “Chutzbah” !

So please, this is not bthe US Congress, so try to get down from the high horse you are riding there (for the time being), and try to use words that normal (Gonime?, is that All others by any chance?) can understand.

AIG,

You and Bush both know that Iran and Syria are not going to attack first. So if Bush is waiting for such a development, he’ll be out of office before anything happens. On the other hand, the Bush administration has repeatedly claimed that Iran has already started a war on the US by supporting the insurgents, and has bombarded us with propaganda about Iran’s nuclear threat. So why doesn’t he act now?

As for Iran and Syria’s air defenses being worthless, isn’t that what Israel thought before the 1973 war? Only to find out that those air defenses were much more potent than previously believed? Are you seriously going to base your judgment of Syria and Iran’s air defenses on one raid in northern Syria right across the Turkish border? In any case, Syria is not going to back down and is not going to give in to Israeli hegemony, so why don’t you do something about it? What is keeping Israel from attacking Syria now?

P.S. Did you see the Maariv article today that quoted Israeli military experts saying that Israel does not have the ability to confront a Syrian missile attack should a war break out?

AP,

I just find the amount of denial and the reluctance to face facts in the Arab world fascinating.

You know what, let’s tell them the BIG SECRET how to become strong. Maybe I shouldn’t? Naw, I think I will.

Here it is: Build liberal democratic societies that are technologically advanced. Nothing else will work.

You say the Chinese model might work for you? Don’t forget that part of the Chinese model is having one child per family. Do you think that will happen in the Arab world? There are so many reasons why the Chinese model will not work for the Arabs.

How about Sim explaining to you the Finnish model? It is a very good one, no sarcasm intended. Adopt it, and you will beat Israel quickly.

AIG and Company are still living in their good old days of June 1967. Denial is hard to get over. But eventually, the facts of life will sink in. At a certain cost of course. But that is Israel’s and the Israelies problem I guess not ours. They have to come to terms with reality. I mean new and evolving realities. Untill then..!!!

AIG

What a bellicous and desperate attitude…

That is Normal state of mind for those guys, what is new???!!!

AIG –

With a small nudge of my elbow into your Zionist “beten”, please change the subject.

Ausamma asks:

you mentioned the words “Shabboos Goy?” above. What the heck does those words mean in plain English?

This famous and most instructive term was first introduced by Professor Landis (please see the link below). Notice, not only is “Shabbos Goy” misspelled by both you and the Professor, but you get the added treat of a Wikipedia translation (hat-tip: Prof. Josh) and the first linked articles portraying the Israeli “failure” somewhere near the edges of Syrian airspace. Fortunately, the mighty SAF repelled the Zionist aircraft just after they were forced to drop an external fuel tank somewhere in the desert.

https://joshualandis.com/blog/?p=373

Nour,

Couldn’t find the Maariv article you mentioned but where did I say Israel has an answer? All I said that the missiles will land and cause damadge in Israel that will quickly be fixed while Syria will not recover in 30 years if it shoots missiles at Israel.

You really don’t understand how America works. Bush will have to show that he has exausted all diplomatic options before attacking Iran.

Regarding the air defenses, how about what Close said that Syria will succumb in several hours? And that Syria would be crazy to respond? All the indications are that Syria has no answer to Israel air superiority.

The bottom line is simple: the risk of Iran possessing a nuclear bomb is so large that it is worth risking an all out war with Syria for it. It is up to the Syrians whether the war will actually happen. I doubt it. Asad is a mean and evil thug, but he is not that stupid.

AP,
I accept the nudge but would like to ask: Lama? Ma haba’aya?

Al Harriri Assaination , a new article by the Lebanese Al Akhbar newspaper. But where the hell did they get those details from and why aint the Feb 14 Crowd refuting all this ??

http://www.al-akhbar.com/ar/node/50301

??????? ???? ????? ??????? ??????? ?????????? ?????? ????????
???? ??????

???? ??????? ??????? ???? ???? ??? ???????? ??????? ????? ???? ??? ???? ????? ???? ?? ?????? ?????? ??????? ???13 ???? ???? ?????????. ??? ??? ???? ????????? ????? ???? ????? ??? ??? ???????? ???????? ?? ????? ?? ??????? ????? ???? ??????? ??? ????? ??? ???? ?????? ???? ???????. ??? ??? ?? ?????? ?? ??????? ???? ???? ????? ?????? ??? ???? ????????? ??? ????? ?????? ??????? ?????? ??? ?? ????? ??? ?????? ?????? ?? ????????? ??????? ??????? ???????

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??? ???
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??? ???? ?????? ???? ????? ??? ????? ??? ?? ????? ?? ????. ?????? ???? ???? ????? ?????? ?? ??? ????? ????? ???? ???? ???? ?????? ??????? ??? ?????? ?? ?????? ?????? ???????. ?? ??? ???????? ??? ???? ?? ?????? ??? ?? ???? ??? ????? ????? ?????? ?????? ????? ?????? ???????? ??? ???? ????? ?????. ???? ???? ??????? ?????? ??? ?????? ???? ??????? ?????? ????? 1977 ????. ??? ??? ??? ????? ?????? ??? ???? ??????? ???????? ?? ??????? ????????. ??? ?????? ???????? ???? ?? ???? ?????? 28/1/2005? ??????? ?? ??? ?????? ??????? ??? ????? ???? ???? ???? ???? ??? ?????? ???? ????? ?? ?????? ??????. ????? ??? ???? ????? ??????? ??????? ???? ???? ????? ??????? ?? ???? ??? ????? ????? ????? ????? ????? ???????? ?? ?????? ?????? ?????? ??? ??? ??????? ???? ??????? ???????? ????? ??? ????? ???? ???? ???? ?? ???????? ????? ???? ???? ?????? ???? ??????? ???????? ??? ???? ?????????. ????? ????? ??? ??????? ????? ??? ??????? ???????? ????????? ??????? ??????? ???? ??? ????? ???? ?? ???????.

????? ??? ???? ??? ??????? (????? – ???? ???????)
???????? ?? ??????? ??? ???? ??? ??????? ???? ?? ?????? ????? ??? ????? ???? ??? ?? ?????? ??????? ?????? ????? ?????. ??????? ?? ???????? ??? ???? ???? 35 ???? ????? ??????? ??? ??? ???? ??? ????? ?????? ?? ????? ????. ???? ??????? «?????» ??? ??????? ???????? ??????? ????? ??? ???????? ??????? ??????? ???? ??? ????????? ?? ????? ????? ?????? ??? ??? ??? ????? ??? ???? ?? ???? ????. ????? ????? ?????? ????? ?????? ????? ?????? ?? ???????. ????? ???? ?????? ??? ???? ????? ??????? ???? ??????? ??? ??????? ??? ?????? ??????? ??????? ????? ????? ????? ????? ?????? ?? ?????? ???? ?? ??????? ????? ????? ??? ?? ????? ??? ????? ????? ????? ????? ???? ?????? ??? ???? ???????? ???? ???? ??? ??? ?? ???? ??? ?????? ?????? ??? ???? ????? ?????? ?????? ??? ??? ?? ??????? ???? ?? ??? ??? ?? ???? ??????? ???? ??? ??? ?????? ??????? ????? ????? ?????? ?? ?????? ??? ???? ???? ????? ????? ???? ????? ???? ??????? ????? ????.
??? ?????? ??? ??????? ????????? ?? ???? ?? ??? ??????? ???? ???? ????? ??? ?????? ????? ?? ??????. ???????? ????? ????? ?????? ????? ????? ??? ????? ????? ??? ?????????. ????? ????? ???? ???? ??????? ??????? ????? ????. ???? ???? ?????? ???? ?????? ????? ?????? ??? ?????? ????????? ?? ??? ????? ????? ?? ??? ????. ?? ???? ??? ?????? ???? ?????? ??????? ????? ???? ?? ???? ??????? ???? ????? ????? ??? ????? ???? ???? ????? ??? ?? ??? ???? ???? ??? ??? ????? ??? ????.
??? ???? ??????? ??? ??????? ??? ?? ?????? ??? ?? ??? ??????? ??? ?? ????? ???? ????? ????? ???? ????? 35 ???? ?? ???? ???? ?????. ??? ??????? ??? ?????? ?????? ??? ?? ?????? ?????? ?????? ?????? ?????? ?? ????? ??? ??????? ??? ???? ???? ???? ???????? ?????? ????? ??????. ????? ????? ????? ??????? ??? ????? ??? ???? ??????? ??? ???? ?????? ??????? ???? ??? ??? ???? ??????? ???? ????? ??? ??????? ??????.
???????? ????? ??? ?????? ??? ???? ??? ??????? ???????? ?? ???? ?????. ???? ???? ???? ???? ???? ?????? ??? ?? ????. ????? ????? ?? ??? ???? ??? ????? ?? ???? ?????. ??? ??????? ??? ????. ????? ??? ?????? ??????? ??? ???? ?????? ????? ??? ????? ?? ????? ?????? ?????? ???? ???? ?????? ??? ???? ?? ???????? ?? ????? ???? ??? ???? ??? ?????. ??? ????? ??????? ???? ??? ????? ????? ?????? ???? ?????? ??????: ????? ??? ????? ????? ???? ?????? ???? ???????? ????? ??? ??? ????? ???????.
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?? ????? ??????? ?? ?? 1/2/2005? ???? ???? ?? ???? ??? ????? ?? ?????? ??????? ???? ???? ?? ??? ????? ???? 3300 ??? ???? ???? ?? ???? ?????? ?? ???? ????? ??? ???? ????? ?? ?????? ???? ??? ???? ??? ?? ????? ????? ???? ???? ????? ?????. ????? ????? ????? ????? ???????? ?????? ?????? ???????? ?????? ????? ?????? ?????? ??? ????? ????? ??????? ??? ?????? ???? ???? ???? ????? ????? ??? ??? ??? ?????? ???? ??? ?????? ??? ???? ?????? ??? ?????? ????? ???? ?????? ???? ????? ???? ?????? ????? ??? ????? ?????? ?? ?????? ?????? ????? ???????? ????????? ??? ????? «???????» ???????? «??? ????? ?????? ????? ?????». ?????? ??? ????? ????.
?? ????? ??????? ??? ???? ????? ??? ????? ?????? ????? ??????? ???? ?????? ??? ????? ?????? ??? ?? ?????? ?? ?? 2/2/2005. ????? ????? ???????? ????? ??????? ??? ????? ?????. ?? ????? ?????. ?? ???? ????? ??????? ?? ?? 3/2/2005? ???? ?? ???? ????? ??? ??? ??? ????? ?? ?????. ???????? ????? ????? ?? ??????? ?????? ??? ???????. ????? ????? ??????? ?????? ??????? ?? ??? ???? ?????? ????? ?????? ????? ??????????? ??? ???? ??? ???????? ??? ???? ?????????? ??? ??????. ????? ?? ???? ????. ??? ?????? ???? ???? ????? ?????? ?? ??? ??????. ??????? ?????? ????? ?? ?????? ?????? ???? ??????? ??? ???????? ??? ??????? ??????? ?????? ??? ????? ?????? ??????? ????? ????????? ??? ????? ?????? ??????? ????? ???? ?????? ??? ???? ???? ???? ????? ????? ????.
??? ???? ???? ?? ??? ???????? ?????? ?? ????????. ????? ??? ???? ????? ???? ??? ?????? ???? ??? ?????? ???? ???????? ???? ????? ????? ???? ???? ???? ?????? ??????? ?? ?? ????? ?????? ????? ???? ????? ?????? ?? ??????? ??????? ??? ??? ?????? ??????? ???? ?? ???? ???? ???? ?? ??? ???? ?????? ??????? ???? ?? ???? ????? ?????? ????? ???????? ????? ????? ??? ????? ???? ?? ????? ???? ????? ?? ??? ????? ????? ??? ?? ????? ????? ?????? ???? ????? ??? ????.
??????? ??? ??? ?????? ?? ??? ???????? ???????? ????? ????? ??? ???? ????? ???? ?? ????? ??? ?? ????. ????? ??????? ??? ?????? ??? ????? ?????? ??????? ??????. ????? ?? ?????? ????? ????? ???? ??????? ????? ??? ????? ???? ??????? ???? «??????» ?????? ????? ?????? ????? ??????. ????? ??? ????? ??? ??? ???? «??????? ??» ??????? ???? ??? ??????? ?????? ???? ???? ???? ?? ????? ????? ????? ????? ?????? ??????? ?? ???? ??????. ???? ??? ?????? ??????? ???? ?????? ???? ?? ???? ??????.
?? ?????? ?? ?????? ????? ???? ????? ????? ??????. ????? ??? ?? ???? ??????? ???????? ?????? ??????? ??????? ??? ?????? ?????? ????? ??????. ?? ??? ???? ?? ???? ???? ??????? ???????? ?? ??? ?????? ????? ????? ??????? ?? ??? ?????? ????.
????? ????? ?? ??? ???????? ????????? ????? ????? ?????? ???????. ?? ??? ???????? ??? ???? ????? ??????? ??? ????? ?????? ?? ?????????? ??? ?? ?????. ????? ????? ?????? ?????? ?? ???? ?? ????? ???????? ??? ????? ???? ???? ???? ?? ????.
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?? ???? ????? ??????? ?? 5/2/2005? ?? ???? ??? ?????? ?????? ????? ?? ???? ???? ??????? ?? ?????? ???????? ???? ???????? ???? ??????? ?? ????? ????? ????? ???? ??????? ????? ??????. ???? ?? ?????? ???? ??????? ?????? ?????? ???? ??? ????? ?? ???? ?????? ????? ?????? ??????? ???????? ??????????? ??? ?????? ???? ????? ???? ?? ?????? ??? ?? ????? ?? ??? ?? ??????? ??????? ??????? ?????.
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??????: ??????? ???? ??????: ????? 175 ????? ???? ??????? ??????? ?????? ???? ????? ???????? ????? ???????? ???? ?????? ????? ???.

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??????: ????? ??????? ???? ??????: ????? 168 ????? ???? ??????? ???? ???????? ???? ?????? ?? ????? ?????? ???? ????? ?????.

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??????: ????? ??????? ???? ??????: ????? 175 ????? ???? ??????? ???? ???????? ???? ?????? ???? ??????? ?? ????? ?????? ???? ????? ?????.

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??????: ????? ??????? ???? ??????: ????? 175 ????? ???? ??????? ??????? ?????? ????? ???????? ?????? ?? ???? ????? ????? ????? ?????.

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[?? ???? ????: ???? ??? ????? ???? ?????? ????? ?????? ??????? ????????]

??? ???????? ?? ????? ?????

AIG,

The damage that will be done to Israel will be significant from the Israeli perspective. No one is claiming that Israel doesn’t enjoy air superiority, but to think that a war with Syria is going to be a walk in the park is nonsense. Israel can and will cause a lot of destruction in Syria, but it will come at a price. The question is: is Israel willing to pay that price? You think they are, but I doubt it very much, which is why I actually do not believe that Israel is going to launch a war against Syria.

You and I both know that Syria is not going to start a war with Israel and I hope you realize that there is no way Israel is going to attack Iran. The question is whether the US will attack Iran, which is a valid issue many people are discussing and analyzing. I believe that it is highly unlikely the US will open up another front in Iran, but I could be wrong. I simply see that the devastating consequences of such a war will deter the US from launching such a campaign. As for Bush needing to show that all diplomatic options have been exhausted, he can claim that at anytime, just as he did in Iraq. Diplomatic options were not exhausted there, and in fact Iraq had fully complied with all UN resolutions, but it didn’t matter, as Bush merely declared what he wished and everyone followed.

Nour,

Fact: Israel attacked Syria and was not afraid of Syrian or Iranian retaliation.

One month ago you would have been sure Israel would not attack Syria. You are wrong and still are wrong.

ANOTHERDENIALGUY

If one Hizbullah Brigade sent Israelies, IDF, IAF, Navy, Cabinet and population, into a state of Hallucination – among the other disorders that are developing-, then what damage could (Hizbullah’s supplier, mentor and tool in your vocabulary)Syria do? Keeping in mind that Syrian skies are not as friendly to the Israeli Air Force as the Lebanese unprotected skies are!

Just imagin….

AIG,

Please don’t insult our intelligence. You know very well that this Israeli “raid”, whatever it hit, was calculated and Israel knew that it would not lead to a Syrian response. It was not a launch of an all out war, but rather a limited, calculated operation that Israel knew would not result in a Syrian military response.

If Israel is no concerned at all with the consequences of war, then why not initiate an all-out attack on Syria.

It is easier for Hizbullah to take on the Israeli army than it is for Syria. HA does not report to the head of State. Were HA to have been the Lebanese army who had the President of the country as its chief commanding officer, its ability to fight would have been severely curtailed.

Syria sure has more missiles than Hizbullah. But it has a significantly higher risk of being retaliated against than a militia operating outside of the main responsibilities of the government and the Presidential palace.

This argument about whether Syria has the military might or not is rather useless. The fact is that the country’s military capabilities pale in comparison to its stated enemy. This is a fact that is not going away.

We can feel good about ourselves stating that we have this or that capability to inflict damage. The fact is, however, that the country’s leadership will not dare enter into a military confrontation of any kind. During a recent interview, Bashar himself admitted that he will not respond militarily because that would be playing into Israel’s agenda.

With the military strategic balance so tilted in Israel’s favor, the fact is that Syria can hardly back up its military capabilities with any action on the ground.

EHSANI2,

You’re right. Syria will not enter into a military confrontation with Israel by its own choosing. But the discussion revolved around whether Israel would launch a war against Syria. In that case, Syria will have no choice but to engage militarily, and Israel would definitely be targeted with the missiles Syria has.

Nobody would argue that Israel enjoys vast military superiority over Syria, and that Israel would no doubt cause severe destruction across Syria. But this destruction will come at a price for Israel, and the question is “is Israel willing to pay that price?”

Nour,

You mischarecterize the argument. We were discussing what would happen if Israel or the US attacked Iran?

I was saying that Syria will not attack Israel. I guess we both agree.

Israel flew over the Presidential Palace in Latakia while the President was there during the summer of 2006.

Supposedly, it also flew and dropped ammunition on whatever it was in early September.

Over two years ago, it also attacked a small military base outside Damascus.

In none of the three incidents above, did Syria respond militarily.

Clearly, none of these incidents presented an existential risk for Bashar. Will he respond if the next attack presented an existential risk? Only if he is sure that his rule itself is targeted, will he contemplate such a fateful act.

Oh well

I guess nobody read my earlier post.

Is the Israeli army still what it used to be? The discipline level of Israeli elite troops is rather “strange” as the following article from today describes: Paratrooper uprising following incarceration. Are these spoiled kids fit for a real guerilla war against better equipped forces as the Palestinian children equipped with stones?

Sim,

You ask an excellent question.

Why don’t you come to our region and and find out? Bring along more of your antisemite friends and fight alongside the Syrians or Hizballah.

EHSANI2,

I’m not arguing that the Syrian regime is not interested in preserving itself. But I think to a certain degree, all regimes in the world are interested in preserving themselves, including the US regime. However, the difference is that Syria is a weak country and it has to weigh its actions very carefully, as it cannot match up to Israeli or US military might. If Syria is to engage in a war with Israel much destruction would be caused to Syria, and we all know that. So the question then becomes, at what point can Syria afford to engage militarily, weighing the costs and benefits? In my opinion if there is an all out war, such as the case in 1973 and 1967, this is the only situation in which Syria would be willing to enter into a direct military confrontation, as it would feel that the regime is under threat and the country is about to suffer much destruction anyway.

AIG,

I don’t get it. So now if you question Israel’s military might, you’re an anti-semite?

Nour,

No, Sim is an antisemite because of the many other reasons we already discussed.

In this particular case he is just moronic:
1) The article is in an Israeli newspaper proving how robust freedom of press in Israel
2) The soldiers showed a strong solidarity towards each other proving how strong the unit spirit is in the IDF
3) The soldiers did not follow orders blindly and were not afraid to address their commanders when they thought something bad was done. This show that the IDF is truly a citizen army in which people do not follow orders automatically.
4) After a discussion with their commanders the soldiers returned to duty.

So, Sim has just shown how formidable and democratic Israel and the IDF are. You might say therefore that he is a philosemite. I think he is just a bad antisemite.

AIG

You state that Bush will have to show that he as exhausted all diplomatic options prior to attacking Iran, but seem not to understand that this requires that the US actually involve itself in broad-spectrum diplomatic contacts with Iran.

Insofar as the Bush administration cannot bring itself to do this, as it conflicts with the broader maximalist objective of leveraging regime change in Teheran, then, given the increasingly limited lifespan of the Bush administration, Bush will be unable to fulfill this precondition.

The US has had ample opportunities to actually talk directly to Teheran since 2003 – the Iranians have made repeated offers to enter discussions which the Bush administration has simply rebuffed. More interestingly, the Bush administration could have become involved with the EU-3 track during the suspension/additional safeguards and no-notice inspection period of 2004-05, but neglected to do so, thereby guaranteeing failure.

With all the talk about the clear superiority of Israel, and with the wonderful memories that Israelis have of successful special operations or one day battles against the Syrians or other Arabs, the fact remains that since 1967 Israel was not able to win any war in Syria’s environment.

For example, Israel’s two “successful” invasions of Lebanon resulted twice in a net-gain for Syria in Lebanon, and in the middle east in general. The glorious day when Israel shot down dozens of old Syrian MIG fighters in 1982 counted for nothing when a year later Hafez Assad was the strong man of the Middle East again.

Similarly, with all of Israel’s bullying … invading Lebanon again last year, flying over the president’s house in Latakia, hitting a small buildin in Deri Ezzore last month (!?!) … the net result is that Syria, again, holds the key to solutions of all the region’s conflicts… Look at the peace conference’s chances of success and failure … Syria affects those as much as Israel or the United States itself.

Doing business in a tough neighborhood like the middle east requires a balance between using your brain and using your muscles. Syria learned to use its brain quite successfully.

Israel is still mostly relying on threatening and bullying the neighbors.

The other “Moderate Arabs” have all the latest advanced weapons that the United States sold them (for triple the market price) … Nevertheless, they are mostly ineffective.

Dan,

Yes, the concept of “exaustive diplomatic efforts” is vague and what it entails exactly is not clear. All Bush has to do is be in the ball park of what most Americans view as reasonable diplomatic efforts. The more the Iranians act in bad faith, the easier it will be for Bush. And the fact that this time around France and most of Europe is with the US, will make it credible to the American public that diplomacy may have run its course. There will always be voices saying that more could have been done diplomatically, but that is to be expected.

In the end, both of us don’t want war. But you believe that the ayatollahs are negotiating in good faith and really want to find a compromise both sides can live with. I am highly skeptical of that and believe that the ayatollahs want to develop a nuclear bomb and will do whatever it takes. I may be wrong but so may you.

Alex,

Not that the Asads are stupid, but their main quality is their ruthlessness. They are like mafia bosses willing to kill in order to advance their goals. Asad retains his power by oppressing his people and exporting instability to neigboring countries.

Maybe Israel should really arm the Kurds and Druze in Syria and fund a civil war by them against Asad? It could be in Israel’s interest but it is just something Israel will not do. Maybe Israel and Saudi should fund and arm the Muslim brotherhood just like Asad funds Hizballah and Fatah al Islam? The more I hear your sad excuses the more I am inclined to support such measures.

Oh, and in 1973 Israel was nearing Damscus when the Soviet Union threatened with a nuclear war to stop the Israeli advance. This won’t happen again.

AIG,

Sim is not a bad antisemite, YOU are a bad Jew.

Thou shalt not murder
Thou shalt not steal
Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor’s house.

Stop wrapping your violent aggressive and selfish attitudes with beautiful words like “Democracy”.

Anyone who tried to tell you that you are wrong, you call him an antisemite.

If an intelligent Israeli journalist in Haaretz says something sensible and peaceful, you and Akbar try to portray him as a 6% minority whose opinion does not count. If an American analyst promotes the idea of dialogue with Syria Akbar calls him clueless.

And of course the only thing you are understanding from my comment here is: “This is all coming from a Syrian regime tool … that explains it”

By discrediting anyone who criticizes yo, you have lost the ability to listen to those who are explaining to you that you are mostly an advocate of violence and mass murder for your own selfish reasons… a fake sense of security and a reinforcement for your superiority complex.

Oh, and in 1973 Israel was nearing Damscus when the Soviet Union threatened with a nuclear war to stop the Israeli advance. This won’t happen again.

You are dreaming again.

Kissinger visited Damascus 21 times those days. Read his book and you will understand what was going on in 73.

Alex,

I would be happy to hear any fair and balanced criticism and respond. Israel is an open society and we value criticism. It is the only way forward.

Where did I advocate violence and mass murder?

And I really find it rich that a person that cannot bring himself to criticize Bashar for wahtever reason is lecturing me on criticism.

Sim is a vile antisemite. He has an irrational hatered of Jews. It is a sad condition. He can say what he wants but I will expose him for what he is. Not everybody that criticizes me or Israel is an antisemite. I don’t think Nour or you are antisemites. But Sim definitely is.

If you are not a tool of the regime I just cannot understand why you are content with licking Bashar’s boots for the next fifty years. No reasonable person not associated with the regime would have such a peculiar position.

Here is some reading for our comment readers and especially for the “chosen people” among us
The Iraqi Genocide
By PAUL CRAIG ROBERTS

Why has not the Turkish parliament given tit for tat and passed a resolution condemning the Iraqi Genocide?

As a result of Bush’s invasion of Iraq, more than one million Iraqis have died, and several millions are displaced persons. The Iraqi death toll and the millions of uprooted Iraqis match the Armenian deaths and deportations. If one is a genocide, so is the other.

It is true that most of the Iraqi deaths have resulted from Iraqis killing one another. But it was Bush’s destruction of the secular Iraqi state that unleashed the sectarian strife.

Moreover, American troops in Iraq have killed more civilians than insurgents. The US military in Iraq has fallen for every bit of disinformation fed to it by Al Qaeda personnel posing as “informants” and by Sunnis setting up Shi’ites and Shi’ites setting up Sunnis. As a result, American bombs and missiles have blown up weddings, funerals, kids playing soccer, and people shopping in bazaars and sleeping in their homes.

Not to be outdone, Bush’s private Waffen SS known as Blackwater Security has taken to gunning Iraqi civilians down in the streets. How do Blackwater and Custer Battles killers escape the “unlawful combatant” designation?

One can only marvel at the insouciance of the US Congress to the current Iraqi Genocide while condemning Turkey for one that happened 90 years ago.

People seldom see the beam in their own eye, only the mote in the eyes of others. Every member of the Bush Regime is busily at work denouncing Iran for causing instability in the Middle East.

Meanwhile, the US has invaded two countries, throwing them into total chaos, while beating the drums for war with Iran and conspiring with Israel to invade Lebanon and to attack Syria.

The indisputable facts are that the US and Israel have attacked four Middle East countries and are determined to attack a fifth. Yet, it is peaceful Iran, at war with no one, that Bush and Israel blame for causing instability in the Middle East.

Not content with its many wars in the Middle East, the Bush Regime is sponsoring wars in Africa and is setting up an African Command. The US government has been bombing and attacking other countries ever since the cold war ended. Instead of peace, the gang in Washington DC chose war.

Other than the Israel Lobby, the greatest supporters of Bush’s wars are Christian evangelicals, specifically the “rapture evangelicals” and the “Christian Zionists.”

I remember when Christianity was about saving one’s soul. Today it is about bringing on Armageddon. While the various evangelical Christians preach war in the Middle East, they condemn Islam for being a “warlike religion.”

Americans are so full of themselves that they are blind to their extraordinary hypocrisy.

The US government has broken every agreement with Russia by withdrawing from the anti-ballistic missile treaty, pushing NATO to Russia’s borders, conniving to place missiles in Poland and the Czech Republic, and buying governments in former Soviet republics and installing US military bases therein.

When Russian President Putin finally has enough and protests, the US Secretary of State blames Putin for being difficult and restarting the cold war.

Few Americans realize it, but they take the cake.

International polls show that the rest of the world regard the US and Israel as the greatest dangers to world peace. Americans claim that they are fighting wars against terrorism, but it is US and Israeli terrorism that worries everyone else. The rest of the world knows that the wars are about US and Israeli hegemony and that the US and Israel are prepared to engage in whatever acts of terror are necessary to achieve hegemony.

That is the bare fact.

When the US dollar loses its reserve currency status, the US empire will come to an abrupt end. Sooner or later the rest of the world will realize this and, in an act of self-protection, dethrone the dollar.

Paul Craig Roberts was Assistant Secretary of the Treasury in the Reagan administration. He was Associate Editor of the Wall Street Journal editorial page and Contributing Editor of National Review. He is coauthor of The Tyranny of Good Intentions.He can be reached at: [email protected]

Alex,

Another newspaper hounded out of Syria:
The Lebanese daily Al-Akhbar announced in a release on 11 October that it will no longer be sold in neighbouring Syria because of “censorship” and “distribution” problems. The announcement comes after the newspaper ran a series of articles about “the Group of 13,” a small Salafist group alleged by the Lebanese security forces to have been involved in the assassination of former Prime Minister Rafik Hariri.
http://www.rsf.org/article.php3?id_article=24045

Have you no shame whatsoever? You are the epitomy of a regime that does not tolerate criticism and you try to lecture others? Let me remind you that Al-Jazeera and Al-Arabiya have offices in Israel. What you cannot stand is people arguing back. I know you don’t have that in Syria but maybe it is something you should get used to.

What do you think about this Alex:

http://www.rsf.org/article.php3?id_article=10767

Syria

Population: 17,381,000
Internet users: 220,000 (2003)
Average charge for 20 hours of connection: 11 euros
DAI*: 0.28
Situation**: very serious

Hopes that Bashar el-Assad’s installation as president in 2000 would bring improvements for free expression have been dashed. The government limits Internet access to a privileged minority, filters online content and monitors e-mail closely. Two people are currently in prison for posting information online or just e-mailing content taken from a banned site.

Syria’s only two Internet Service Providers (ISPs) are the post office and the Syrian Computer Society (SCS), both state-controlled. Private connections at home are reserved for people who can prove they use the Internet for professional reasons (such as doctors, lawyers and businessmen). It is the SCS that decides who gets a connection.

So most Internet users must go to public points of access. Syria has many cybercafés, mostly in Damascus. You do not have to show ID to use them. Rates run from 0.50 to 1.50 euros an hour.

Surveillance and censorship

The SCS intercepts e-mail in order to identify and monitor dissidents. For this reason, web-based e-mail services such as Hotmail have been made inaccessible. This forces Internet users to turn to the e-mail services controlled by the Syrian ISPs. One Internet user, Abdel Rahman Shagouri (see box) was arrested in February 2003 as a result of e-mail surveillance.

However, censorship affects a relatively limited number of websites. The sites of Reporters Without Borders and Amnesty International, for example, are accessible. So are those of the BBC and arabnews.com. Furthermore, the authorities do not block sites such a anonymizer.com, which means Internet users can easily evade the SCS filters.

Blocked sites

The authorities concentrate their blocking efforts on publications dealing directly with Syrian politics such as http://www.thisisyria.net, as well as Kurdish, pro-Israeli and pornographic sites. The Internet users get an error message saying: “Access refused by the control list.”

Two Kurdish sites, http://www.amude.com and http://www.qamislo.com, were rendered inaccessible in mid-March 2004. Hosted in Germany, they are a major source of information for the Kurdish diaspora and foreign news media, which often pick up their photos and video clips. According to amude.com’s editor, Siruan Hadsch-Hossein, the Syrian authorities blocked them by blocking their domain names. As a result, his site initially remained accessible to anyone using the alternative address, http://www.amude.net. Then this address was also blocked at the end of March. Massoud Hamid, a journalism student arrested on 24 July 2003 (see box), was a contributor to amude.com.

Two imprisoned Internet users

Abdel Rahman Shagouri was arrested on 23 February 2003 at a checkpoint near Damascus for e-mailing a newsletter, Levant News, from a banned website, http://www.thisissyria.net. He is being held in Saidnaya prison near Damascus, where he has reportedly been tortured. His indictment says the articles he sent via the Internet “endangered Syria’s reputation and security.”

Massoud Hamid, 29, a journalism student and a member of Syria’s Kurdish minority, was arrested during an exam at Damascus university on 24 July 2003. The reason for his arrest was said to have been the posting of photographs of a peaceful Kurdish demonstration in Damascus on http://www.amude.com. He is being held in Adra prison near Damascus and has allegedly been mistreated.

Links

The Arabic-language site of the Arabic-language governmental daily Teshreen provides access to the English-language governmental newspaper Syria Times
http://www.teshreen.com

Online English-language newspaper covering Arab countries
http://www.arabnews.com

* The DAI (Digital Access Index) has been devised by the International Telecommunications Union to measure the access of a country’s inhabitants to information and communication technology. It ranges from 0 (none at all) to 1 (complete access).

** Assessment of the situation in each country (good, middling, difficult, serious) is based on murders, imprisonment or harassment of cyber-dissidents or journalists, censorship of news sites, existence of independent news sites, existence of independent ISPs and deliberately high connection charges.

Alex,

Can you bring yourself to criticize Bashar for his Internet strategy? Or is it just fine?

AIG,

Yes, I absolutely criticize the regime’s internet strategy. You can see here and in Creative Syria that i welcome discussing anything with any regime critic.

Most of the sites they block are full of lies and exaggerations. But I would allow them not block them.

And I also criticized the arrests of Michel Kilo and Aref Dalilah

Besides, you are mixing between me and the regime.

And you are mixing between Bashar and the rest of the regime.

Overall, Bashar is doing a very good job .. not perfect, very good.

Frank,

I agreed with your post about nuclear issues and energy and economic development. Well said.

But why can’t the idiots representing Iran and Syria make that case themselves?

Iran kind of does, but in a weird and unconvincing way. Plus you have the spectacle of the Iranian regime being pathetically incompetent in running its own oil industry despite urgent internal economic problems. Iran’s oil production is currently well below its potential with a worsening shambles in its petroleum refining and distribution facilities.

But a good point to note is the blocking of Alakhar which is friendly to Syria but is recently suggesting that Muslim extremists killed hariri, and jailing two Internet webmasters who criticized Saudi Arabia!

If I was in Syria I would be in jail too : )

AIG,

We all criticize Bashar all the time and we criticize the Syrian government for a lot of mistakes and ineffective policies. We do not have to report to you everytime we criticize Bashar and the Syrian government. I have yet to see you criticize the Israeli government once here. So does that mean you are an Israeli regime tool? This is the type of attitude you bring to this debate.

As for Israel funding factional groups, they have done so several times in Lebanon and Iraq. You sit here and try to convince everyone of your moral superiority while conveniently ignoring facts on the ground. The fact is that Israel has armed and trained Kurds in norther Iraq. It has armed Druze and Christians in Lebanon and sent them to fight each other. Saudi Arabia has indeed funded and supported the Muslim Brotherhood in Syria. Let’s not forget that Hamas itself was created with Israeli support, as Israel wished to put a thorn in the side of Fateh. So please spare us your lectures.

No, Sim is an antisemite because of the many other reasons we already discussed.

So, Sim has just shown how formidable and democratic Israel and the IDF are. You might say therefore that he is a philosemite. I think he is just a bad antisemite.

Well if you can call me an anti-Semite then you certainly are not offended when I call you and people like you modern time Nazis. You believe in religious/racial supremacy, you support occupation and the bad treatment of the slave races etc. Just like Nazis did. What is the difference in creating ghetto to Warsaw or to Gaza and West Bank? Nothing.

Luckily I know perfectly well that AIG and Akbar represent the worst kind of Jews, who make “limited anti-Semitism” justifiable. However there are millions of Jews who do not support AIG’s and Akbar’s national religious (notice AIG the irony, almost like national socialism, well original Zionists were both nationalistic and socialists and well less religious) views. I respect enormously those Jews opinions who prefer a real democratic coexistence in the modern world. If I would be real anti-Semite I would not listen to Finkelstein’s, Chomsky’s etc lectures or follow with great interest the discussion around Israel.

What comes to that article I linked about to mutiny by Israeli paratroopers. Such an event would have been impossible in Finnish army and I suppose in most armies. When I went to army we were not allowed to sing while eating, discussion was OK, not to throw food on fellow soldiers, not mention rocks or smoke grenades. The punishment would have been severe and the whole battalion would have lost their leaves for months and would have been cleaning toilets for weeks. And if we had demonstrated by not obeying orders and piled our weapons in front of the commanders office, we all would have faced military court and prison. We would have not only the laughingstock of the army, we would have been the laughing stock of the whole nation. Not heroes of “democracy”.

The Hizbollah guys and Syrian soldiers must be rolling on the floor with laughter when they read how their “democratic” enemies behave. By the way AIG do you often vote in your IDF or follow orders by the command chain. Is 890th battalion a rule of the present IDF or an exception? If is a rule G-d (as you seem to express that authority) help you. When IDF is throwing tomatoes and rocks on each others and piling their weapons on stairs of the defence ministry a tiny Hams group can occupy whole Israel. 🙂 🙂 🙂

Alex,

What is the difference between Bashar and the regime?
So how does this work, Bashar wanted an open internet policy but the “regime” stopped him? Who is the regime and what is it? Who are the people that make it up and how is Bashar not one of them if not the main person? How is Bashar as the head of state not responsible for all government policies???

Ehsani2,

With all due respect, why dont to stick to economics, monitary, and financial matters, in that area at least, most commentators leave you alone to impart your wisdom without seriously contesting and refuting your opnions maybe because -to me at least- they seem as a mere theoretical excersise. But are you now becoming a military historian and a military expert and an informed analyst on how strong Syria is or is not militarily?

Habibi, putting it in the simplest possible terms; if Israel thought that it could WIN a war against Syria, it would not hesitate for a minute. If a “strategic” military victory was in Israel sight, Israel would go for it at whatever cost. Simply, because Israel views Syria as a srtategic EXISTENIONAL threat, not only a security matter where a cost-benifit type of analysis applies.

Have you not figured that one out yet?

So please..!!!

Sim wrote:
“What is the difference in creating ghetto to Warsaw or to Gaza and West Bank? Nothing.”

Therefore Sim is an antiemite. Thank you for proving again and again how sick you are. You really disgust me.

Population in west bank and gaza grow sat over 3% annually. Among the fastest growth rates in the world.
Until the first intifada economic growth in the West bank and Gaza was higher than all countries in the Arab world.

The population in the Warsaw ghetto went down 100% in 2 years mostly because your mother’s family and other “liberal” and “tolerant” people knowingly helped Hitler subdue Poland. Probably your relatives were even patrolling in the Warsaw ghetto and helped put down the revolt there. You are shameless.

Still thinking about Iran.

Imagine: Iran’s oil industry producing to its full capacity(especially at today’s prices), efficient domestic oil refining and distribution systems keeping the economy buzzing and its considerable human resources being allowed to operate to full potential.

No confused hallucinatry little militia men in charge, no religious thuggism, no world record rate of drug addiction…

Under good management Iran could be dominating the region and a significant world player without a whiff of weaponry. Israel would be eating Iran’s dust.

Nour,
In Israel we criticize the government by voting against it in elections and writing in an open press. And believe me, next time I will vote against Olmert. I much prefer Netanyahu.

How do you exactly criticize Bashar? By elections? Or in free newspapers that don’t exist? You think he reads this blog?
You support the regime by defending it on forums like this and attempting to make it look good to Americans and others!

Has anybody done what Syria has done with Hizballah? Has Israel smuggled weapons into Syria and created a militia there? Has Israel ever given weapons to Hamas to fight Fatah? You know, the more I read this blog and listen to Alex and you, the more I realize that the only solution for Syria is to create a militia like Hizballah but targeted at the Asad regime. I am not quite there yet, but I am slowly being convinced.

Jamal,

I totally agree with your vision. Of course Iran would dominate the mid east if it were an open society. It has many more resources, human and others than Israel. I wish all the others on this forum would have your deep understanding.

And I am totally not being sarcastic. It is what I firmly believe.

Putin warns US against attacking Iran
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071016/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iran_russia;_ylt=AnDfBpdPCsprr98ZcULBhmKs0NUE

and jailing two Internet webmasters who criticized Saudi Arabia!
If I was in Syria I would be in jail too : )

Alex, I think the two guys you are referring to, have mocked the Islamic stature of Saudi Arabia (as country that holds a place for Islamic shrines), what you are doing is entirely different, it is a political critique.

I hope my speculation and my conclusion are right…

to AP and IG and AIG,antisemitic is antizionist, but they are ashamed to be clear,even God is antisemitic to them

AIG,

You’re hillarious. You’re in a complete state of denial. Israel has on several occasions armed groups and encouraged them to fight other groups. Yes, Hamas WAS armed by Israel. The PSP and the LF in Lebanon were both armed by Israel. Israel has also helped arm and train the Kurdish Peshmerga in northern Iraq. You act like you don’t play this game, when you are masters at it.

As for us criticizing Bashar, I wasn’t insinuating that there’s a free press in Syria or that Syria is not ruled by a dictatorship, but you were directing your comment at me and Alex specifically, and at Syrians in general, implying that we do not criticize our government as if we are oblivious to what goes on there or simply don’t care. We do indeed criticize the government and we do not approve of all its policies. As for having elections and free press, yes these are things we have to work to achieve, but that is OUR business not yours. We will deal with our situation as we see fit and we don’t need people giving us lectures and lessons on how to properly run a government. At least Syria is not based on a racist, exclusivist ideology that promotes the idea of a “chosen people” and works to establish a state solely for a particular group excluding others from it. And at least Syria does not engage in widespread home demolitions, land confiscations, killing, maiming, raping civilians and uprooting their trees and orchards to deny them sustenance. So before you give us any lessons, go look at your own brutal, oppressive, racist regime.

Nour,

Israel never armed Hamas. You are plain lying.

Give YOU advice? Why does Asad listen to you? It seems that you are part of the regime. The Syrian on the street cannot do anything about Asad. How will you deal with the situation? You and Alex see the dictatorship staying for 200 years. You are just a front for keeping tyrants in power.

Syria has been raping its own people for 60 years. You are just blind. And by the way, we can’t know exactly what Asad has been doing because the regime oppresses all information. Why is it so afraid? Probably there are a few massacres like Hama that we don’t know about. I wonder how many mass graves there are in Syria.

Syria is the ultimate apartheid state. The 15% Alawites control the rest. Yet you have the nerve to criticize the only true democracy in the middle east.

AIG,

Israel is a joke of a democracy. A so-called democracy for Jews only. You sit here and pass judgment on other countries and peoples while your own country has been responsible for one of the greatest crimes in history. Uprooting an entire population from their land and replacing the with your own kind. Why? Because you believe Yahweh granted you that right and gave the authority, as his chosen people, to “utterly destroy” all those around you.

You have never been to Syria to know anything about it. All these hypotheticals about the Syrian regime killing, raping, and massacring people is pure nonsense. In Syria there is no discrimination between one group and another, so this whole “Alawi” nonsense you’re trying to spew is ridiculous. Alawis do not enjoy a different stature then any other Syrians. Assad did not bring Alawis from all over the world and forcefully expel all other Syrians so that he can make a state exclusively for Alawis. Apartheid state? What a joke. ALL Syrians enjoy the same rights and priveleges, no group is isolated from the other, no walls are built to separate one “superior” group from another “inferior” group, no home demolitions and land confiscations are practiced. Go sell your propaganda elsewhere.

As for Israel arming Hamas against Fateh, this is a fact, just as it is now arming Dahlan and his gang against Hamas. Do you deny that Israel armed the PSP and LF in Lebanon? Do you deny that it arms and trains the Kurdish Peshmerga in Iraq? Look at yourself in the mirror before judging others.

The Syrian regime and how we deal with it is none of your business. This is our country and we will deal with our own problems. We don’t need any lessons from anyone; just leave us alone to tend to our matters. But the nature of Israel (an expansionist, racist, oppressive, criminal state) does not allow for that as it has to maintain instability around it in order for it to survive.

Nour,

In Syria there is no discrimination because except for the elite, no one has rights. That is the nature of oppressive dictatorial regimes.

Why is Syria ostracized by the US, Europe and most of the world? Why is it a pariah state? Because the Syrian regime oppresses its people and exports instability to its neighbors.

All I have to do is read what the brave Syrians who are willing to face the truth write on blogs. The true nature of the evil Syrian regime emerges.

You are using the oldest Asad trick in the book. You demonize Israel in order to give excuses for Asad staying in power.

The Arabs citizens of Israel are 6 times richer and have much more rights than the average Syrian. All your lies and demonizing cannot change that. And now Israel is in discussions with the Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza and hopefully they will have a state soon.

Anyone can visit Israel and see for himself what is happening. Can you say the same for Syria? No. Why? Because Asad is hiding untold atrocities and massacres. Let the foreign press free range in Syria and then we will know what the situation really is.

In the end, why should I care? I live in a thriving democracy. It is my interest that Asad stay in power and be weak and keep Syria weak and powerless. But that is against my core beliefs. I believe that every person has the right to be free and to prosper. And therefore I believe that Syria must democratize, whatever the costs to Israel.

People like you with a slave mentality that are willing to kowtow to tyrants and even justify them, are to me worse than the dictators themselves. I think you need to read Thomas Paine’s Common Sense. Unless of course you are part of the regime and then I fully understand your position.

And about dealing with your problems, you haven’t been able to deal with them in the last 60 years and have now resigned to another 200 years of tyranny. It is certainly the case that someone else needs to help you democratize because you have proven unable to do anything about it by yourself.

Nour, you keep on stating that Israel is arming Kurds in Iraq like that is a bad thing.

We have a right to help other oppressed people in the world, especially in this region were we lack friendly neighbors.

And yes we did arm the LF in Lebanon, what were we supposed to do, allow the Palestinian and Lebanese Leftist to take over the country and continue their attacks on us?

Let us be realistic here, Israel has to look out for her own interests, if that means we have to arm some groups than that is what we will do.

AIG,

If you want to criticize something, at least know what you’re talking about. To say that no one has rights in Syria is not based in reality. We do not deny that the Syrian system is oppressive and dictatorial, but that doesn’t mean that no one has any rights. Syrians have rights and carryon their lives like all other normal human beings. Anyone who has been to Syria will tell you that life is abolutely normal there.

Syria is “ostracized” by the US for one reason and one reason only: ISRAEL. Why isn’t Saudi Arabia ostracized? Why isn’t Egypt ostracized? They both are highly oppressive regimes, even worse than Syria, and also help destabilize their neighbors. So what’s the secret? The answer is that Egypt and Saudi Arabia have agreed to be tools of the US and to keep from opposing and resisting Israel. As such, they are rewarded and allowed to join the “club”.

I don’t need to demonize Israel, Israel has done a good job of that on its own. However, my posts specifically were in response to you, who comes here and glorifies Israel every chance you get and makes it your point to show how superior Israel is to Syria. I was merely telling you to look in your own backyard before attacking others.

The “Arab” citizens of Israel do not enjoy more rights than Syrian citizens. But regardless, that is not the point, the point is that Israel does not recognize the right of the indigenous people of that land to live on that land. So just because it gave a few Palestinians Israeli citizenship, does not change the fact that Israel is intended to be a state exclusively for Jews. The Palestinians are treated as subhumans, they are denied their right to live, their homes are demolished, their lands confiscated, their trees and orchards uprooted, and they are systematically killed, tortured, raped, maimed, etc.

Anyone can visit Syria also and see for themselves. I have never known a westerner who visited Syria who didn’t find it a fabulous country. There are no hidden massacres as you claim. The one massacre that is known to all is the Hama massacre, which was a crime that we do not deny, but that resulted after the Muslim Brotherhood, supported by the US and KSA, had killed thousands of Syrians in terror attacks over a period of 3 years. However, with respect to Israel not hiding anything, is that why they prohibited reporters from entering Jenin? And they refused to allow UN investigators to know what took place there? This is your history and you have to deal with it. At least we are sensible enough to admit when the Syrian government has committed crimes.

Please do not patronize us by pretending like you care about Syrian citizens, for you surely don’t. You simply want to see Syria submit to Israeli hegemony and just accept that fate. Do you criticize Jordan for oppressing its people and carry a campaign against it? Do you do the same for Egypt? No, and the only reason why is that those two countries have accepted Israeli hegemony.

As for your last degrading comments, I shall ignore them. However, let me just clarify that the only ones with a slave mentality are those that happily become servants of Israel and the US at the expense of their country and their people, and which you pretend to admire.

Finally, about dealing with our problems, 60 years is nothing relative to the history of the world. How long did it take Europe to come out of the dark ages? We had been subdued by the Ottomans for 400 years only to come out of it and find ourselves in the hands of European colonists, who then brought foreigners to our land and established a state for them there, which has consistently led a campaign of wars and destabilization since its inception.

Alex said:

AIG,

Thou shalt not murder
Thou shalt not steal
Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor’s house.

Alex,

cc: SimoHurtta

Congratulations on the near total breakdown of this fine website. The owner of this website and Co-director of the Centre of Peace Studies at the University of Oklahoma would be, er, proud.

Just for yuks, if “Sim is not a bad antisemite”, does that mean he is a “good” one? Or maybe is he’s just a mediocre anti-semite. I guess with everything, there are different shades of gray.

And as far as your charges against AIG with respect to the Ten Commandments, I would say that you have no proof that AIG has coveted a neighbors house, murdered anyone, or stolen anything from anyone.

If you have information to the contrary, once again please post a link or point us in the right direction.

Alex stated further:

Kissinger visited Damascus 21 times those days. Read his book and you will understand what was going on in 73.

I understand that visiting Syria is a major part of Syrian foreign policy. This custom reminds me very much of a dominatiing mother-in-law, where, if your forget to call or visit, you must be prepared for the “serious consequences” that will follow. Needless to say, Warren Christopher, James Baker, Madeline Albright were all very aware of this custom and they were all happy to visit the Assad family on a regular basis.

Without sounding like a broken record again, after 9-11, the US decided business could not continue as usual. The custom was broken off with those tiny few remaining countries who support terrorism. As strange as it may seem, I believe this to be the correct policy. I believed it on 9-11, and I believe it now in October 2007.

Here are two different American points-of-view on this subject for your entertainment pleasure:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/07/27/AR2006072701420.html

http://www.aei.org/publications/pubID.11210/pub_detail.asp

Jamal chimes in:

Under good management Iran could be dominating the region and a significant world player without a whiff of weaponry. Israel would be eating Iran’s dust.

“Good Management” and Theocracy seem to me to be two opposing forces. Praying 5x/day (not including lunch hour) may erode worker efficiency.

Your second comment about Israel “eating Iran’s dust” is more typical of the “peace promoters” here who are planning for Israel’s destruction in so many varied ways. However, I have dreams where Israel as well as the whole Middle East (including Iran) is working together in an atmosphere of peace, tolerance and mutual understanding. Although the sensitivities are heightened in these precarious times, I have no desire to see any Arab or Muslim country wallow in poverty and hardship. I hope one day my dream will be fullfilled. I think it will.

majedkhaldoun said:

to AP and IG and AIG,antisemitic is antizionist, but they are ashamed to be clear,even God is antisemitic to them

Usually those who are consistently anti-zionist and who hold the State of Israel to a higher standard than Israel’s neighbors are anti-semitic.

Nour adds:

As for having elections and free press, yes these are things we have to work to achieve, but that is OUR business not yours.

Agreed. Best of luck to you.

Conversely, when Iran threatens to “Wipe Israel off the Map”, and when Syria and Iran arm a militia on Israel’s border, this is ISREAL’S business. I know no other country has threatened to “Wipe out Syria” or arm a anti-Syrian militia who has lobed thousands of missiles into Syrian population centers, so I would imagine it would be difficult for you to mind your own business if this was an actual fact.

We will deal with our situation as we see fit and we don’t need people giving us lectures and lessons on how to properly run a government.

These are just friendly suggestions. I trust you will do what is best for Syria.

At least Syria is not based on a racist, exclusivist ideology that promotes the idea of a “chosen people” and works to establish a state solely for a particular group excluding others from it.

You’re right about that. There are no “chosen people” in Syria. I read that on the Syrian Government website.

And at least Syria does not engage in widespread home demolitions, land confiscations, killing, maiming, raping civilians and uprooting their trees and orchards to deny them sustenance.

This could stop if terrorism ceased or if a peace treaty were possible.

So before you give us any lessons, go look at your own brutal, oppressive, racist regime.

I looked at it several times and I was impressed by how well Israeli Arab live in Israel. To be honest, I almost “coveted” their homes (I stopped before I broke any laws). And with all those Arab Knesset members, I could see how difficult it was to be an Arab- Israeli.

Akbar,

again, please read carefully and you will not have a problem with my comments;

you complained about the expression “bad antisemite”

I hate to tell you that I was simply commenting myself on your friend AIG who said it himself … check above his comments and you will see it.

So I was simply rejecting HIS use of “bad antisemite” just like you are.

As for Kissinger\s frequent visits to Damascus … that peiece of information was meant to explain to AIG that Syria was not about to lose the 73 war … when Egyptian army was surrounded, Kissinger did not need to spend much time in Egypt to negotiate the Egyptian Israeli cease fire agreement.

But this is too complicated for you probably.

Here is AIG’s comment .. read the last paragraph

AnotherIsraeliGuy said:

Nour,

No, Sim is an antisemite because of the many other reasons we already discussed.

In this particular case he is just moronic:
1) The article is in an Israeli newspaper proving how robust freedom of press in Israel
2) The soldiers showed a strong solidarity towards each other proving how strong the unit spirit is in the IDF
3) The soldiers did not follow orders blindly and were not afraid to address their commanders when they thought something bad was done. This show that the IDF is truly a citizen army in which people do not follow orders automatically.
4) After a discussion with their commanders the soldiers returned to duty.

So, Sim has just shown how formidable and democratic Israel and the IDF are. You might say therefore that he is a philosemite. I think he is just a bad antisemite.

Right Alex, because you think he is not an antisemite at all which makes you just a plain racist or an ignoramus. I think I might start using Sim’s methods to show you how disgusting this is but instead of Jews, use Arabs. I’ll start quoting Osama Bin Laden and many Arab leaders and I will post all the racist and antisemtic cartoons and articles from the Arab press and then I will attribute this to Arabs in general and make the case that they are basically all racist.

We will then go to the wide support of Arabs for honor killings, women circumcision and their consistent gay bashing and murder. We can then all deduce what a despicable person you are for being an Arab. What do you say, you think it makes sense?

Then let’s discuss what Arabs say about countries they live in such as the UK and the US and deduce that like you, they are traitors to the US, Canada and the UK.

Do you think such a strategy will be justified? It seems so since you support Sim’s methods.

Alex, SimoHurtta –

cc: AIG

Here’s what I think is an interesting clip from Iranian government controlled (could it be somethng else) TV.

After seeing these clips, do you think Ahmadinejad is an anti-semite?

Why or why not?

http://www.memritv.org/clip/en/1558.htm

AIG –

cc: Alex

On the topic of “racism”, Alex has made it clear to us on this forum that he is a supporter of Hamas.

Therefore, it is clear that Alex supports some racists and anti-semites. I can only conclude that Alex supports racists and anti-semites if they embrace the notion of defeating Israel.

Akbar Palce,

I guess we have to take your word on the subject of Racisim, after all Isarel is THE living example of all the ugly that Racist socities reprsent. NOt only Racist, but Ethnic-Racist society. And in the twenty first century!

From Global Security Newswire:

Russia Made Secret Nuclear Proposal, Iran Says

Iranian Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei received an offer of an unknown nature regarding his nation’s nuclear program this week during a meeting with Russian President Vladimir Putin, the Associated Press reported (see GSN, Oct. 16).

Iranian sources said they believed the proposal involved a “time out” on U.N. sanctions in exchange for Iran’s suspension of uranium enrichment activities.

“The main reason for Putin’s visit to Iran was to convey this message personally to the ultimate power in Iran,” said one of the two Iranian officials.

“We will ponder your words and proposal,” Iran’s state media quoted Khamenei as saying. The report said that Iran’s highest leader would give the proposal serious consideration before making a decision (Ali Akbar Dareini, Associated Press I/Google News, Oct. 17).
End of exerpt.

If this news leak from Teheran is accurate, the ME will experience a cooling off period.

[…] The NSC versus Rice and the Syria Strike atomic plant in Syria and has asked Damascus about information that such a site was targeted by an […]