Syrian Refugees Collectivizing in Jordan Becomes a Security Issue — by Katy Montoya
Posted by Matthew Barber on Wednesday, February 18th, 2015
… Jordanian policies toward entering and residing Syrians have evolved simultaneously with the three-and-a-half year conflict. Jordanian border security has, from the beginning, played a generous role in facilitating border crossings, ending the long, often dangerous journeys of fleeing Syrians. Various Jordanian officials in my interviews emphasized the extent of humanitarian care that Jordan provides for entering Syrians, in partnership with the UN High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR), from the border in. Unlike nearby Lebanon, the Jordanian government has worked with the UNHCR to open the al-Za’tari and al-Azraq refugee camps. Other camps include Cyber City, a holding facility for “illegal” Palestinian refugees from Syria (often referred to as PRS) and the Emirati (UAE-funded) camp.
Keeping a close count of registered Syrian refugees is difficult. Many Syrians enter Jordan illegally by bypassing official checkpoints. Increasingly, this is due to intensifying battles over border crossings between Jabhat an-Nusra, the Free Syrian Army, and al-Asad’s forces, and Jordan’s subsequent closing of bordering crossings.[5] Meanwhile, about a hundred thousand Syrians who once resided in Jordan’s refugee camps have voluntarily returned to Syria. Many have also escaped the camps for Jordan’s cities and rural areas in order to seek better conditions and work opportunities.[6] Thus, roughly twenty percent of Syrians in Jordan face poor camp conditions.[7] Overcrowding and poor sanitation prevail, especially in the al-Za’tari and Cyber City camps, despite the efforts of camp officials.
Meanwhile, eighty percent of Syrians now live outside Jordan’s refugee camps and struggle to obtain necessary goods and services. With the help of UN subsidies, Jordan has kept its public hospitals open to Syrian refugees for over three years, allowing refugees to access free healthcare. State officials abruptly announced the termination of these services in late November 2014, citing the heavy debts Jordan has accrued through extending free Health-care to Syrian refugees.[8] …
… During the summer of 2014, rumors began to circulate in the international media concerning Jordan’s repatriation of illegal Syrian workers and the strict cap imposed on Syrian refugees awaiting entry at the border. Syrian social workers reported cases of Jordanian authorities forcefully relocating unregistered urban refugees to live in refugee camps. The interviews I conducted this summer with Syrian social workers upheld such claims. Meanwhile, the official Jordanian press denied Jordan’s involvement in deporting refugees back to Syria.[9] Months later, however, international organizations and researchers have indeed been able to substantiate the claims.
A November 2014 report released by Boston University (BU) compiles interviews with international organizations and the testimonials of impacted Syrians, providing conclusive evidence of Jordan’s practice of forced repatriation. In fact, escalating concerns over refugee control and domestic security have created a charged political climate surrounding these matters. It is becoming clear that new security priorities have prompted Jordanian authorities to deport threatening and nonthreatening Syrian refugees alike. As the BU report states, “Syrian nationals are being deported in some instances for violating laws, such as working illegally. Others are deported for posing security problems, usually as a result of political action, regardless of specific affiliation.”[10] Through this practice, Jordan may damage its international image, even though it is true that the kingdom is not a signee of the 1951 Refugee Convention. As my initial research problematic hypothesized, security concerns have come to dominate the Jordanian government’s approach to hosting Syrian refugees.
A Survey of Syrian Social Networks in Jordan
In his study of Islamist organizations in Jordan, Quintan Wiktorowicz concludes that the Jordanian state exercises authoritarian control over civil society formation and practices.[12] Jordan’s General Intelligence Directorate, the Mukhabarat, are a major force in regulating the contents and activities of political parties, charities, and cultural organizations. While this holds true for Jordanian organizations, I discovered through my survey of civil society formation in Syrian refugee communities, that among this population, Jordan is only selectively regulatory. In other words, the state allows some organizations and groups to operate freely while others are closely monitored or banned altogether. An exploration of what is permitted, and under what conditions, should contribute to reveal the logic which is currently steering Jordan’s refugee policy, and by extension, what its political position towards the Syrian war may be. …
… In Irbid, the only surviving Syrian family support center (as of July 2014) has gone to a lot of trouble to abide by strict regulation requirements. The founder (a former activist from Dera’a) not only has sought the assistance of a European NGO partner, but also created two salaried positions for Jordanian workers, a heavy burden for a struggling non-profit, in order to justify its right to operate in Jordan. “If I didn’t do this, the authorities would close me down immediately,” she explained, referring to Jordan’s Ministry of Social Development. …
… Another member of the Syrian community in Irbid has established a sort of civil registry office in his living room, reprinting legal documents for Syrians who left their papers behind or whose documents have expired. Syrians come to his home office from various communities in North Jordan, seeking his services. For over a year, he has also assembled teams of Syrian activists to document human rights violations and civilian deaths wherever they have occurred in Syria. Volunteers in his office use testimonies and different methods of verification to create reports with titles like, “Violence Against Girls and Women in Dera’a” and “Attacks on Field Hospitals in Aleppo.”
The founder claims that when his documents first began surfacing, their factsWere at variance with the information published by the Syrian National Coalition (SNC). He relates this to the Jordanian Mukhabarat’s attempts to shut down his center—that is, until the Jordanian authorities had assessed the quality of his work. He provides legal documents in the hope they will be recognized by the Jordanian government and by international organizations. Meanwhile, his human rights work ties his center to political leaders, various armed opposition groups, journalists, activists, arms-traffickers, and local coordinating committees in Syria and neighboring countries. The capacity to obtain quantifiable evidence on events in Syria from Jordan is a testament to the organization and coherence of the transnational networks which bind the larger Syrian community together.
Extending Support to Non-Civilians
The informal networks that include non-civilians, particularly those that connect Syrian refugee communities to armed opposition groups in Syria, work in fairly similar ways. As Syrians collectivize to address civilian needs, it is not uncommon for them to engage with Syrians who have political and military affiliations. In my own experiences of visiting ostensibly civilian Syrian community centers, I encountered individuals who play more direct roles in the Syrian opposition on a regular basis: field doctors from battle sites in Dera’a, leaders of different divisions of South Syria’s FSA, prominent political activists and dissidents, and arms collectors. They often share family or hometown ties to Syrian community leaders in Jordan and use the resources made available by community networks to collect funds and supplies, relocate their families to Jordan, spread news, and discuss opposition strategies. As more Syrians flee to Jordan, the dynamics of civilian versus non-civilian have become increasingly complex. …
… The relative ease with which Syrians in Jordan connect with and support members of Syria’s opposition occurs in the context of implicitly partisan (non-neutral) practices. It is relatively well-known that the Syrian-Jordanian borders are spaces of cooperation between the Jordanian military and the FSA. My interviews with leaders of South Syria’s Military Council (i.e. the FSA), as well as with various media sources, confirm that implicit agreements between these military groups enable the free movement of FSA leaders across the border. Moreover, at one of the last border crossings to remain open at Ruwaishid, Jordanian intelligence and military actively facilitate the transport of arms, food, and medical supplies across the border into Syria, as well as the entry of refugees into Jordan.[14] …
… The same standard applies to Jordan, as the kingdom has exercised diplomatic caution since early on in the conflict and claims to be a neutral bystander in the ongoing war.[16] In this context, the overlaps and contradictions between caring for Syrian civilians and managing the interests of the Syrian opposition are constant and ongoing. Keeping non-civilians out of Jordan becomes more complicated when dealing with Syrians who haven’t deliberately left their homes for Jordan (and are not actively seeking refugee status) but rather have been rushed to the borders by the FSA. As war casualties, they come from both civilian neighborhoods and from the battlefield, and their injuries largely exceed the capacities of Syrian field hospitals.
Although the Jordanian military and intelligence employ strict identification screening methods throughout the registration process for refugees, they generally apply much looser policies to Syrian casualties seeking medical treatment. The procedures set up to manage this influx supposedly privilege civilian victims and Syria’s moderate opposition (the FSA), yet Jordan’s open-door policy inadvertently extends to wounded fighters from al-Qaida’s affiliate, Jabhat an-Nusra, and possibly other groups active in Syria’s southern region.
Jordanian security, intelligence, and medical personnel are undoubtedly aware of this. Officials actively control the movement of Syrian trauma patients in Jordan in order to counterbalance their humanitarian open-door policies. Such practices were common when Palestinian refugees from Iraq living in Jordan’s Ruwaishid camp use to seek medical treatment in Jordan’s cities after the US invasion in 2003.[17] Today, members of Jordan’s Civilian Defense escort wounded Syrians to their first stop at the public Ramtha Government Hospital. From there, police officers supervise each patient’s stay, whether unaccompanied male or patient plus family, at one of the country’s several private, specialized hospitals. This route officially terminates at the Joint Registration Center at Ruba’a al-Sarhan, close to the Syrian border in the al-Mafraq governorate. There, individuals are registered and officials assess whether they should be sent to al-Za’tari camp (to be escorted by police to further medical appointments at a later date) or back to the dangerous zones in Syria from where they came.
The movement of Syrians through informal social networks is much harder for Jordan to regulate. Loopholes exist in the surveillance procedures that the state increasingly imposes on Syrian refugees. While Jordanian officials claim it is not possible for recovering Syrian trauma patients to evade the regulated system that leads them to al-Za’atari or back to Syria, certain intermediaries intervene on the behalf of these vulnerable individuals. One such Jordanian, bearing the pseudonym Abu Ahmad, a man from Zarqa City, works full-time in the service of the Syrian community. Since retiring from decades of membership in Jordanian Security, he has used his wasta, a cultural term denoting extensive social connections and a certain privilege and status, to pull young Syrian men out of this often merciless system. He frequently visits al-Za’tari Camp and private hospitals to follow up on special cases that come to his attention through his ties to the greater Syrian community. By mobilizing funds from wealthy Syrian donors abroad, he has established housing units for disabled ex-FSA fighters that provide ongoing medical treatment and rehabilitation as well as living necessities. Even as a well-established East-Bank Jordanian, he is subject to monitoring by the Jordanian authorities. Abu Ahmad explains that the authorities’ primary concern is ensuring that only moderate Syrian nationals—not extremist fighters, Palestinian refugees from Syria, or foreign fighters—find refuge in Jordan.
Jordan has, perhaps, overcompensated to dispel rumors suggesting that it is providing refuge to non-moderate armed oppositions groups. At the same time, the evolution of its policies toward Syrian refugees reflects the increasing security concerns at its borders. An article from the Forced Migration Review notes that since 2013, “Jordan has imposed bans on unaccompanied men from entering the country.”[18] The rising threat of Islamic State fighters entering the country compounds existing fears of Syrian regime agents penetrating the closely monitored borders, as Jordanian border security officials explained to me. The same article describes a common occurrence in conflict-ridden countries, where a separate political logic often applies to male refugees of fighting age (as opposed to families, women, and children).[19] Specifically, host country policies toward adult males overemphasize their potential for taking up arms, and thus discriminate against them as assumed non-civilians. Scoping out possible threats to Jordan’s internal harmony and curbing extremism is increasingly being imposed at the expense of offering refuge to some of Syria’s most vulnerable displaced individuals. …
Victim of airstrike treated in ICU in Amman – Photo: IREMAM
Circles of Syrian Doctors Working in Jordan
… For over a year, it seemed that as long as Syrian doctors continued filling in for the lack of doctors treating incoming wounded Syrians, and as long as they steered clear of politics, the Jordanian government would continue to turn something of an acquiescent blind eye to these predominantly wageless doctors. However, an article by Human Rights Watch announced the recent deportation of Syrian medical workers “caught” treating Syrian patients at Ramtha Public Hospital as well as at private hospitals around Jordan.[21] It is safe to conclude that Jordanian authorities have already closed, or may soon close, rehabilitation centers and Syrian hospital wards which have provided the materials for a part of this present study.
Monitoring a Situation in Flux
Jordan’s steady deviation from humanitarian obligation reveals the Kingdom’s apprehensions about hosting another refugee population, on a long-term basis. It is indeed relevant to wonder whether Jordan’s growing impatience stems in fact from the utter lack of any solution to Syria’s persistent war. In the light of the escalating security concerns that cooperation with the FSA raises, perhaps the costs of quietly supporting Syria’s moderate opposition are too high. Through its recent political moves, Jordan may be seen to be sending an implicit message to the refugees and to the international community—that is, a desire to reduce involvement in Syrian affairs. However, could it also be that after three and a half years of conflict, the Jordanian government, like a significant number of Syrian refugees, is considering reconciliation with the al-Asad regime?[22]
Most importantly for this research, it is crucial to raise the question of just how far Jordan’s evolving political agenda will affect its treatment of Syrian refugees and the resulting wellbeing of these communities. Can their informal networks withstand repressive host country policies? How will underhand practices like repatriation undermine the resilience and cohesiveness of the larger Syrian community?
Life has come to a halt for Syrians in Jordan, who have little access to higher education, healthcare, and work. For many, Jordan is just a temporary stopover before the refugees move on to Turkey or undertake the dangerous trip to Europe. As European Union member countries and Australia are offering thousands of resettlement and asylum opportunities to Syrians, the common perception is that better treatment and possibilities are awaiting them there.[23] While Jordan is becoming an increasingly undesirable place for Syrians to live and be, most have no option but to stay put and wait it out.
Comments (89)
SANDRO LOEWE said:
The Real Reason The West Is So Passive In Syria
http://www.realclearworld.com/articles/2014/06/11/the_real_reason_the_west_is_so_passive_in_syria_110572.html
February 19th, 2015, 2:29 am
SANDRO LOEWE said:
… Trapped, Assad launched a diversion that should be covered in academic war studies, by turning the liberation movement into a religious conflict by freeing thousands of jihadists that he had sent to Iraq in 2004 to fight against the American military. There were members of al-Qaeda originally from Iran, who had found shelter in Syria after 2011, and served as the ideal structure to welcome all the jihadists into the country.
Then Baghdad’s pro-Iran regime helped some 1,500 jihadists escape from its prisons, and they too moved to Syria. That’s how the opposition’s jihadist pipeline, manipulated by Tehran and Damascus, was born.
Iran has become a co-warmonger in Syria, engaging its elite soldiers and their auxiliaries from Hezbollah with cargos of weapons and generous financing. By highlighting the cruelty of Sunni Islam, Assad has tried to hide that the Shia-Alawite faction is actually just as cruel.
This all-out war waged by Assad and his allies, characterized by a systematic scorched-earth strategy, has displaced at least 40% of the country’s population. It has even threatened the very identity of Syrian neighbors such as Lebanon…
February 19th, 2015, 4:40 am
ALAN said:
Don’t wait for a Greek withdrawal from the EU, a run on euro debt, a third US invasion of Iraq, war against ISIL or an escalation in Syria or the Ukraine in an attempt to secure oil and gas pipelines to act. Just remember that all empires eventually become over-extended financially, economically or militarily and the consequences of retribution and blowback are real and deadly to innocent populations
February 19th, 2015, 3:45 pm
Ghufran said:
Ford is making a U turn on Syria:
“We have to deal with reality as it is,” said Ford, who’s now with the Middle East Institute in Washington. “The people we have backed have not been strong enough to hold their ground against the Nusra Front.”
Ford today sounds like a different person from the optimist who only six months ago wrote an essay in Foreign Policy that began: “Don’t believe everything you read in the media: The moderate rebels of Syria are not finished. They have gained ground in different parts of the country and have broken publicly with both the al Qaida affiliate operating there and the jihadists of the Islamic State.”
Now, however, on panels and in speeches, Ford has accused the rebels of collaborating with the Nusra Front, the al Qaida affiliate in Syria that the U.S. declared a terrorist organization more than two years ago. He says opposition infighting has worsened and he laments the fact that extremist groups now rule in most territories outside the Syrian regime’s control.
Ford said part of the problem was that too many rebels – and their patrons in Turkey and Qatar – insisted that Nusra was a homegrown, anti-Assad force when in fact it was an al Qaida affiliate whose ideology was virtually indistinguishable from the Islamic State’s. The Obama administration already has suffered a string of embarrassments involving supplies it’s donated to the rebels ending up in the hands of U.S.-designated terrorist groups.
“Nusra Front is just as dangerous, and yet they keep pretending they’re nice guys, they’re Syrians,” Ford said. “The second problem is, some of our stuff has leaked to them.”
As his calls to arm the rebels have become more muted, Ford has grown more vocal about the relationship between the rebels and Nusra, something U.S. officials have preferred to ignore, at least in public.
February 19th, 2015, 10:14 pm
SANDRO LOEWE said:
4 GHUFRAN
Before one mind can understand any analysis about Ford comments or any other analyst or politician,
CAN YOU PLEASE EXPLAIN WHAT AL QAEDA IS? WHAT DOES IT MEAN TO BE AN ALQAEDA AFFILIATE IF YOU CANNOT DESCRIBE AL AQAEDA?
DESCRIBING AL QAEDA MEANS LOCATING SOURCES OF ARMS AND FINANCE, LOCATING HEADQUARTERS, LOCATING BANKS, LOCATING LEADERS, AND SO ON.
DO NOT TELL ME ALQAEDA IS BIN LADEN OR MULLAH OMAR IN A MOTORCYCLE, AND DO NOT TELL ME AL QAEDA ATTACKED TWIN TOWERS IN NEW YORK. COME ON PLEEEEEEEEEEEASE
Let´s be serious.
February 21st, 2015, 4:36 am
ALAN said:
The United States has shamelessly signed and protocol with Turkey for training, arming and supporting the “opposition” /correct here, “mercenaries”/ funded by the Gulf States in order to carry out terrorist acts in Syrian territory.
The United States adopted the approach dissemination of terrorism in the world where it’s bluffing in its announcement in the fake war on terror!
Yet as Libya seems to be following the same path as Syria – of ‘moderate’ anti-government militias backed by the West paving the way for ISIS takeover – It is become clear about Western duplicity over ISIS and the true nature of NATO policy in Libya.
The United States thus give an example for others to follow and do likewise. YES, some countries will take the initiative to arming, training, funding, and support the mercenaries to destabilize countries allied to Washington.
conclusion: the same American dirt to destabilize and break the peace for others interests.
You are not alone on this earth
February 21st, 2015, 9:46 am
ALAN said:
Memo to the criminal Obama administration
Stop your program training, and financing of terrorism worldwide! Obama you are terrorist criminal
Wesley Clark to Fox News: “We use radical Islamists for foreign policy objectives”
http://youtu.be/Y-id_x6Fh3c
http://youtu.be/QHLqaSZPe98
http://youtu.be/xUgrGtdER7U
February 22nd, 2015, 6:08 am
Uzair8 said:
It’s been a bad week for the Regime/Iran/Hezbo camp. I have previously predicted they would end up publicly blaming each other. A quote from a book (on the mafia) I used before about ‘the dogs turning on each other’.
Even on Iran Military Forum (IMF) hardcore regime supporters can no longer keep up the pretence and receive negative rep for their comments:
Posted today on IMF:
“Whoever’s giving me negative reps should go bang their head on the nearest wall.. If you’ve got a better argument proving otherwise, make your case…
The SAA’s been pretty crap to say the least and I’m absolutely convinced without Iranian/Hezbollah and Iranian backed Iraqi resistance, Syria will be like Libya by now… We’re talking about an army that don’t know sh*t about what’s going on on their own soil…If anyone’s got an argument proving otherwise make your case…
Ever since the conspiracy against Syria begun, most of the members here on this forum have been very supportive of the SAA but I think it’s about time we stopped deceiving ourselves about the capabilities of the SAA… Enough of the pretence!!!!
AL-Ghouta and Douma have been under rats hands for over 2 years now and yet a standing army STILL cannot retake it.. Either the rats are too strong and we’ve underestimated them or the SAA are just sh*t that can’t put a single strategy together.. I’ll hate to think the rats are better than a standing army but SAA’s actions have proven otherwise.”
http://www.iranmilitaryforum.net/military-conflicts/updates-on-military-action-in-syria/msg289749/#msg289749
February 22nd, 2015, 12:44 pm
ALAN said:
U.S. President Barack Obama has repeatedly employed a tactic of attacking Russia by using fundamentalist and other conservative extremists in a given Russia-allied nation, so as to turn that Russia-allied nation away from Russia, and toward America, and then of trying to crush these very same right-wing extremists who have been so effective in defeating (or at least weakening) the pro-Russian leader in that Russia-allied country. This tactic leaves civil war and enormous bloodshed in the given formerly (or still) Russia-allied nation.
One example of this anti-Russian tactic, of relying upon far-right extremists and then of trying to defeat them (in order for Obama to maintain the secular fig-leaf that he is seeking to advance ‘freedom’, rather than to weaken both Russia and Islamic extremists), has been Russia’s ally Syria, where Obama joined with fundamentalist-Muslim extremists, by bombing the armed forces of Syria’s Russia-allied leader, Bashar al-Assad, but then Obama turned to bombing also fundamentalist-Muslim extremists, including the ones, such as al-Nusra, whom his Administration had actually helped to supply the sarin which was used in the infamous gas attack that Obama said was perpetrated by Assad’s forces. Theodore Postal of MIT studied the detailed evidence regarding the sarin gas attack that the Administration was citing as its basis for justifying a U.S. invasion of Syria, and he said that, though insufficient evidence was available on the basis of which to determine precisely who was to blame for that gas attack, “The administration narrative was not even close to reality. Our intelligence cannot possibly be correct.” In order for the gas-delivery rocket to have come from Assad-held territory (instead of from territory controlled by the anti-Government rebels), it would have needed to fly at least 3.6 miles, but the actual rocket that was determined to have delivered the sarin was incapable of flying more than 2 or 3 miles at the very most. One thing that was clear from all of the evidence was that the Obama Administration were lying. Another was that they were eager to replace the pro-Russian dictator of Syria with an anti-Russian dictator. Obama (unlike the discredited George W. Bush regarding his similar lies about Saddam Hussein and Iraq) was not saying that his objective was to build a democratic state in Syria. Instead of democracy, Obama was talking about ending Syria’s alliance with Russia. He was presenting this as a strategic issue, against Russia — which it is: to replace Assad so that natural gas from Qatar can be pipelined through Syria to Turkey to Greece and Europe, and thereby to reduce Russia’s now-dominant position as being the chief supplier of gas to the EU.
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2015/02/obamas-war-policies-show-pattern.html
February 22nd, 2015, 1:15 pm
Uzair8 said:
In my previous comment I forgot to include the claims that Iranian troops/fighters executed some Syrian soldiers in South Syria (Deraa?).
Apparently there is distrust amongst them perhaps due to defection of some SAA as claimed.
I suspect there will be more such incidents of public finger pointing and infighting.
February 22nd, 2015, 2:06 pm
ALAN said:
http://youtu.be/3EGOHDup9Os
February 22nd, 2015, 3:04 pm
SYRIAN HAMSTER said:
Dear UZAIR8
Did you see what happened on that testosterone filled sectarian Iranian supremacists forum to the poor Greek fellow who tried to tell these bozos the truth?
February 22nd, 2015, 10:36 pm
Uzair8 said:
Dear Syrian Hamster
First of all it was a very pleasant surprise of seeing your name on the recent comment list above. Most of the older members have stopped commenting on here. It’s good to see you back here.
Yes I did see the treatment of the poster over there, who btw claims to be neutral, acknowledged by others too.
They cannot swallow bad news usually so it’s all the more significant when they admit to bad news.
February 22nd, 2015, 10:55 pm
Uzair8 said:
It just occured to me I haven’t seen a smiley on SC for a long time. I wonder if they’re still possible. Then I remembered ANN.
😎
February 22nd, 2015, 11:06 pm
omen said:
im feeling lost. can i crash here for a minute?
February 23rd, 2015, 3:43 am
omen said:
i miss ann.
February 23rd, 2015, 3:44 am
omen said:
a new low. remember tara calling them hyenas? she had their number.
now they are exhuming graves & stealing the dead.
por qué? to cover up evidence? a new avenue for extortion? to spur displacement?
February 23rd, 2015, 5:12 am
omen said:
where everybody go? is this the result of over moderation? o_O
February 23rd, 2015, 3:19 pm
ALAN said:
может выть всем наступит ПИЗДЕЦ!
http://youtu.be/Y_rgtKzKrPw
February 23rd, 2015, 4:01 pm
omen said:
1. SANDRO LOEWE said:
The Real Reason The West Is So Passive In Syria
http://www.realclearworld.com/articles/2014/06/11/the_real_reason_the_west_is_so_passive_in_syria_110572.html
good piece but missing context.
1 – netanhayu lobbied for regime change in iraq which served to destabilize region.
2 – israel helped ensure rebels were denied weapons during the early years, costing the opposition precious time to gear up.
i still think big oil responsible for dictating policy but israel must have played a part too.
February 24th, 2015, 2:35 am
Alan said:
Your Israel could finish badly prior to it disastrous end
February 24th, 2015, 5:28 am
Uzair8 said:
My internets been down for a day or so.
Welcome back Omen. About missing ANN, I don’t believe anyone would miss her as much as ALAN.
Regarding the older users going silent, I suspect people felt there wasn’t much we could do about the situation as it was all about what happened on the battlefield. Nothing much we could do apart from watch for positive developments from the Revolutionary perspective. Discussion, propaganda and wotnot were increasingly irrelevant.
February 24th, 2015, 2:04 pm
Uzair8 said:
Earlier on the situation was constantly developing and changing keeping many interested and hopeful of positive change. Eventually a stalemate of sorts developed for some time without much change.
February 24th, 2015, 2:18 pm
ALAN said:
Iraqi Army Downs 2 UK Planes Carrying Weapons for ISIL
Iraqi Army Downs 2 UK Planes Carrying Weapons for ISIL –Iraqi lawmaker says US prefers chaotic situation in Anbar Province — which is near cities of Karbala and Baghdad — as it does not want ISIL crisis to come to an end | 23 Feb 2015 | Iraq’s army has shot down two British planes as they were carrying weapons for the ISIL terrorists in Al-Anbar province, a senior lawmaker disclosed on Monday. “The Iraqi Parliament’s National Security and Defense Committee has access to the photos of both planes that are British and have crashed while they were carrying weapons for the ISIL,” Head of the committee Hakem al-Zameli said, according to a Monday report of the Arabic-language information center of the Islamic Supreme Council of Iraq. He said the Iraqi parliament has asked London for explanations in this regard. The senior Iraqi legislator further unveiled that the government in Baghdad is receiving daily reports from people and security forces in al-Anbar province on numerous flights by the US-led coalition planes that airdrop weapons and supplies for ISIL in terrorist-held areas.
February 24th, 2015, 6:20 pm
omen said:
thank you, uzair8. i miss zoo too, crazily enough. as you know, by tracking iran forum, oppositional viewpoint serves as useful backdrop to gauge reality.
February 25th, 2015, 5:05 am
omen said:
alan, what do you think of putin calling khamenei christ?
https://twitter.com/AmirTaheri4/status/568422469079605248
February 25th, 2015, 5:13 am
ALAN said:
OMEN /putin calling khamenei christ?/
Stop Phishing with this liar, hypocrite, deception, notorious, called Taheri.
http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2007/11/amir-taheri-story
OMEN: Do you have evidence of this speech, which promoted here?
February 25th, 2015, 5:09 pm
omen said:
interesting. thank you, alan.
February 25th, 2015, 9:48 pm
omen said:
2. SANDRO LOEWE said:
Trapped, Assad launched a diversion that should be covered in academic war studies, by turning the liberation movement into a religious conflict by freeing thousands of jihadists that he had sent to Iraq in 2004 to fight against the American military. There were members of al-Qaeda originally from Iran, who had found shelter in Syria after 2011, and served as the ideal structure to welcome all the jihadists into the country.
this happened in algeria too. is it true havez the father consulted with the algerian government and gave them tips on how to defeat the revolution? was mukhabarat waging massacres while dressed as jihadists – the elder assad’s idea? was there iranian involvement?
February 25th, 2015, 9:57 pm
ALAN said:
Hulagu, Genghis Khan, or Tamerlane?
The assassination of history?
Obama! Do you want to train thousands of them? Why do you train them and drop them by air weapons?
“ISIS” destroys historic Assyrian monuments in the Mosul Museum ..
http://youtu.be/3ZJw87ILPwY
Memo to Prof/landis: Do not you have something to say?
February 26th, 2015, 1:10 pm
ALAN said:
Another Hulagu, Genghis Khan, or Tamerlane
Israeli settlers set fire to a Church in west Jerusalem overnight. Anti-Christian slogans were sprayed in Hebrew.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B-wKsMGVIAAmvYU.jpg
February 26th, 2015, 1:54 pm
SANDRO LOEWE said:
Oil at 48.75 USD per barrel.
Obama anxious about Netanyahu speech.
What is coming next ?
Obama striking a nuclear deal with Iranian Empire
or Israel striking nuclear plants in Iran.
Any option is really terrifying.
But in my opinion Iran will not be able to sustain an Empire from Kabul to the Mediterranean shores and the Yemen Red Sea.
February 26th, 2015, 3:13 pm
omen said:
alan, an expert said most were plaster copies but two were original.
February 26th, 2015, 3:20 pm
ALAN said:
The renewed global economic growth would be the “catalyst” that revived oil markets
http://nationalinterest.org/feature/oil-prices-collapsed-russia-wont-12328
But, Currently, almost all the uranium in US reactors is imported, with about half of it … purchases from Russia…
http://www.world-nuclear.org/info/Country-Profiles/Countries-T-Z/USA–Nuclear-Fuel-Cycle/
take car Sandro
February 26th, 2015, 4:24 pm
SANDRO LOEWE said:
ALAN,
Putin will sell his own personal oil at 40 $ next month, and maybe he will be forced to sell even Crimea.
We are so afraid of Mss. Putin LOOOOOOOL
All cowards follow the same methoda, they make themselves so brave but are afraid of people´s will and democracy.
February 26th, 2015, 4:59 pm
sami said:
Louay Hussein was released from prison after over three months of captivity.
To this day not a single regime bulwark can explain why he was held in prison nor why Khayer is still lamenting in jail.
Do you “fight terrorism” by locking up the people that can actually make a difference? Is “fighting terrorism” include torturing moderate opposition that never once called for arms?
February 26th, 2015, 7:28 pm
SANDRO LOEWE said:
SAMI,
Fighting terrorism is :
* Jail and torture for politicians (and tens of thousands more)
* Bombing moderate rebels day and night from the first day
* Buying oil to ISIL and sending all islamists in jail from Bagdad and Damascus to Raqq, as well as islamists from Chechnya sent by KGB
* Assad never fought ISIL until it resulted a danger to US
February 27th, 2015, 4:08 am
ALAN said:
Still talking about the (moderate opposition) in a war-time with multi-national compositional enemy inside the state when the operator is in urgent need to USE “moderate opposition” to launch more aggression against the Syrian nation. There are some lack of phase-needs and difitsit of political realism or something else…
February 27th, 2015, 4:09 am
SANDRO LOEWE said:
ALAN,
OK, if you prefer you can call the parties in conflicto as follows:
REBELS (EXTREMISTS with support of moderate countries)
ALAWI DICTAROSHIP (EXTREMIST with support of Iran Teocracy))
ISIL RADICAL POLITICAL ISLAMIST PARTY
HEZBALLAH RADICAL POLITICAL ISLAMIST PARTY
February 27th, 2015, 5:42 am
mjabali said:
Sandro Low:
عمو leave the Alawites alone…
Again you slander the Alawites and accuse them of establishing a dictatorship….
The first thing Hafez al-Assad did when he took power was put most of the strong Alawite army men in prison…(If not all of them to be exact).
Hafez and Bashar never had an Alawite agenda, they had a personal agenda…even my dog knows this fact
Read some books better than السكر
اوكي عمو؟
February 27th, 2015, 10:25 pm
omen said:
ford can suck it. all of this hand wringing over whether or not rebels deserve support – misses the mark. assad is still waging genocide. if US is so unhappy with the quality of rebel, it can step in and take matters into their own hands.
February 28th, 2015, 5:42 am
Observer said:
I agree with MJABALI the question though is will the community be spared when the regime falls? I fear that they will suffer terribly as the regime has effectively taken them hostage and tied their fate to his. It is time that the community rebels agains the clan and show that they do not agree with the objectives, methods, and alliances that the regime has.
February 28th, 2015, 9:00 am
ghufran said:
Rebels in Aleppo reject UN plan for a cease fire (can you smell Turkey in the air ?)
رفضت القوى العسكرية والسياسية المعارضة في محافظة حلب اليوم الأحد خطة الموفد الدولي الى سوريا ستافان دي ميستورا المتعلقة بتجميد القتال في مدينة حلب، معتبرة أنها جزئية وتتناقض مع المقررات الدولية ومع مطلب رحيل بشار الاسد.
وجاء في بيان القوى أن أفكار ميستورا لم ترق إلى مستوى المبادرة التي يمكن أن تمثل حلاً لمعاناة الشعب السوري جراء استخدام النظام للأسلحة الكيميائية والبراميل المتفجرة.
وأكدت هيئة قوى الثورة في حلب أن أفكار وتصريحات دي ميستورا تنسف المقررات الدولية السابقة المتضمنة رحيل نظام الأسد وتشكيل هيئة حكم انتقالي.
وبناء على كون “سوريا جزءاً لا يتجزأ ودماء درعا والغوطة وحمص لا تقل شأناً عن دماء حلب”، فقد اختتم اللقاء التشاوري برفض لقاء دي ميستورا إلا على أرضية حل شامل للمأساة السورية يتضمن رحيل الأسد وأركان نظامه، ومحاسبة مجرمي الحرب.
The war in Syria in not just an internal war, it is a regional and international conflict where the winner will dictate terms of a future settlement. Until the big daddies decide to quit Syrians will continue to suffer, and until the dirty hands of Turkey are slapped hard the meddling and the dealing will continue.
Whether there was a revolution in Syria in 2011 or not is a matter of dispute but what is clear today is that whatever started in 2011 has become a terrorist movement championed by Islamist thugs and their backers (GCC and Turkey). Rebels and Jihadists failed because most Syrians in big cities did not trust the new comers even though they did not like the regime.
AS for minorities, Assad succeeded in neutralizing then winning the majority of non Sunnis and kept a big chunk of urban Sunnis on the sideline, some are even supporting the regime.
One myth about the Syrian war is that it was ignited by secular idealists as a non sectarian movement for justice and freedom, the truth is that non justified violence against the army (in areas where there was no fighting or a war) started as early as April of 2011, alawites (civilians) in Daraa received death threats and were forced to leave by summer of 2011, and alawites (civilians also) in Aljazeera (Dayr azzour and Raqqa) were killed in 2011.
Rebels did, and still are, dealing with Israel and Turkey, they use sheikhs and Imams (not univ. grads) as their leaders. Almost every demonstration started at a mosque and many mosques have become arms and ammunitions depots and HQs for armed rebels (!!).
Kurds may, and should, receive a semi-independent status but they will push for a virtual state (Turkey will not allow that). Syrians in Aljazeera area will be under the mercy of Turkey and ISIS for years to come. We are left with the part of Syria that has over 2/3 of the population (Damascus to Aleppo), which has pockets of resistance and areas mostly held by Islamists terrorists (FSA or what is left of it controls less than 5% of rebels held areas), but if Aleppo falls the whole area will be under regime control or a new regime with elements from non violent elements in the opposition.
Assad may or may not be president when this is done and finished, and the new president may or may not be an alawite but no Islamist or a Turkey-GCC puppet should be allowed to sit in Al-Muhajireen palace in Damascus. Anybody who still believes that rebels and their supporters will be tolerant of minorities is a fool.
March 1st, 2015, 11:51 am
ALAN said:
zzzzzzzzzzzzzz
http://youtu.be/zduhlyzFYAo
These chinks in the Freemason brick wall are spreading and the City of London is becoming increasingly desperate. ISIS, the Nemtsov assassination and the attempt to sink the Minsk Agreement can be seen as last-ditch attempts to stave off the inevitable – the beginning of the end of the British Empire.
https://hendersonlefthook.wordpress.com/2015/02/28/nemtsov-the-end-of-the-british-empire/
March 1st, 2015, 4:05 pm
Uzair8 said:
US Intelligence: Assad Controls Only 10% of Syria’s Population
Saturday, 28 February 2015
US Director of National Intelligence James Clapper said that Bashar al-Assad controls only 10% of the total population of Syria, accusing Iran of continuing to expand its influence in the region through “The Quds Force” in Iraq and through Hezbollah in Syria.
He attributed Assad’s survival in power to the economic support he receives, and to the fact that he is still surrounded by his religious minority whose interest lies preserving the status quo because they benefit from it.
US officials said that the United Nations estimates that the Iranian regime spends $35 billion USD a year to keep Assad at the head of his regime in Syria, pointing out that this money is used to finance military operations, arms and ammunition, and to pay salaries of its militias that are fighting alongside regime forces. (Source: Syrian Coalition)
http://en.etilaf.org/all-news/political-news/us-intelligence-assad-controls-only-10-of-syria-s-population.html
March 1st, 2015, 9:03 pm
SANDRO LOEWE said:
39. MJABALI
The Assad regime has been extremely sectarian from the moment it was formed. Anybody who has been living in Syria and many syrians abroad know that top positions in the security and army have always been in the hands of alawites. And it means that Assad regime survival was guaranteed by the presence of alawites in top positions.
When I say Assad regime is an alawite regime it means they are mostly alawites and their main aim is to avoid the arrival of majority sunna to power because it would prevent the Assad and cronnies to sustain their economics system based on cotrol of key posts and main bussinesses. It does not mean that Assad protect and beneffits all alawites and of course it does not mean that all alawites support this regime.
But the outcome is the same: the Assad will not allow sharing power with majority of syrian people and alawites will finally pay for it. Even those alawites who were against the regime or who did not beneffit from it, which is something that at this moment is rare, because beneffiting from the regime in a state of war is for example not being bombed, so we can conclude almost all alawites are now taking proffit from the alawite regime.
Anyway MJABALI you keep on worrying just about comments that affect tyhe alawites but you seem not to care at all about christians or muslims being bombed. You are sectarian in your attitude indeed.
March 2nd, 2015, 2:14 am
Ghufran said:
Hazm militia in Syria which is supported by the West and supplied with US weapons because it is “moderate” just collapsed and its members are now looking for a new employer. Hazm militia members ran without their weapons which are now in the hands of Nusra terrorists !!
ثوره غير شكل
March 2nd, 2015, 3:32 pm
ALAN said:
After a few months, perhaps in the end of March, Washington and Tehran will reach a global agreement. US will go to resume contacts with Syria, to be followed by contacts with European countries, including France. It turns out that President al-Assad is not a dictator or tyrant. War with Syria will come to an end, and the main forces of the jihadists will be destroyed by a truly international coalition. And when it’s over quite survivors jihadists crossed to the Russian Caucasus or Chinese Xinjiang for another CIA evil goals!
March 2nd, 2015, 4:54 pm
SANDRO LOEWE said:
47. ALAN,
Do not forget to take your pills. I think you are dreaming.
I guess when you say ¨war will be over¨ you mean ¨syrian population will be erased from this planet by the Assad-Iranian-Hezbzbele militias¨…
March 2nd, 2015, 5:33 pm
Mjabali said:
Dear Sandro Low:
Contrary to your fabricated claims about me: I stand with my Syrian Christian brothers and sisters in their crisis on any day against the blood thirsty Islamists.
I did stand with Syrian and Iraqi Christians in the past and will do in the future.
it is YOU who side with the Islamic State the enemy of the Christians and all of the minorities in the Middle East.
Here are some nots for you ياعمو
0- I grew up in Syria under Hafez al-Assad, and when I left he was still the president. I was young when Hafez al-Assad came to power, and remember his rule very well.
1- Hafez al-Assad relied on Alawites that are related to him. Many Alawites were not included in his army/security heads, or ranks.
2- It is a common habit of Arab dictators to have their inner circle from their tribe/cousins.
3- al-Assad was not the first or the last to rely on people from his own sect.
4- al-Assads ALSO relied on MANY people not from his own sect.
5- It is an Alawite regime, it is al-Assad regime, who happened to be an Alawite.
6- When you say it is an Alawite regime; we need to see the Alawite agenda of the regime to believe in this sectarian statement of yours.
7- al-Assad is not there to prevent the Sunnis from taking power, he is there to prevent anyone Sunni or no Sunni from taking power away from him. He is not an anti Sunni like you and many other fools try to portray him. i do not believe this.
8- The Alawites did benefit from the rule of the Assads because he allowed them to get out of the seclusion the Sunni had forced them to.
9- The Alawites did not benefit from al-Assads because their areas are still under developed.
10- The Allawites did not benefit from the rule of al-Assad, one could say, because their kids died in the thousands protecting his rule.
March 2nd, 2015, 11:14 pm
omen said:
alan any documents corroborate wes clark’s hearsay?
March 3rd, 2015, 1:29 am
omen said:
via @notgeorgesabra
this blew my mind…
had elites been less comfortable, the revolt that culminated in hama 1982 might have succeeded in overthrowing assad regime. history would have changed, we would have had a different syria and we wouldn’t be seeing the catastrophe and ruin we are seeing today.
going along to get along has consequences. you pay more in the end if you put off the inevitable.
March 3rd, 2015, 1:48 am
Observer said:
Still MJALABLI what is the position of the illustrious community on where to stand in this mess? They are ” dying by the thousands protecting his rule ” as you correctly point out, but then the question remains: did he take the community hostage? or did the community willingly joined forces with his ” rule “? If the former, it is time to declare a position and vote with their feet, if it is the later then let us know that it is so. I do agree with you that the clan did everything and allied with whomever and used any willing servant and allied itself with the devil even and posited itself as protector of minorities and majorities and Israel and resistance all to stay in power. Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Today there is a clan in power over a garbage dump stinking with death and chlorine gas.
March 3rd, 2015, 7:34 am
SANDRO LOEWE said:
49. MJABALI,
It seems there is nothing to discuss with you. Your way of thinking is absolutely sectarian from the first day you appeared here. You analize all in terms of sunni majority versus minorities, there is nothing out of it. You just intervene when someone mentions the alawite regime. You act for sectarian reasons. This is exactly what Assads have been doing for the last 45 years so they can keep power in their hands stopping any representative aspiration.
Your denfense of other minorities is false, you just care for them as long as they protect the rule of alawites.
My brother, I am a Christian and I do not give you my support for being an alawite and I do not hate sunna at all. The self fulfilling prophecy of Assad about Sunna killing all minorities does not work. It is all false, it just worked in Raqqa and Mosul because Iran and Assad created them for this purpose.
March 3rd, 2015, 8:01 am
mjabali said:
Observaaar:
You should know where the “illustrious community” of the Alawites stand these days. If you do not صح النوم
Your choice of adjective to describe the Alawite Community reflects an envy from them, and/or the Ibn Taymiyah syndrome where you speak to anyone who is not a Sunni from a specific school as less ….
March 3rd, 2015, 9:17 am
mjabali said:
“brother” Sandro Low:
No one expects you to be with the Alawites. You hate them. You stated that clearly in many of your posts. You curse at them. You call them names. You have a bad experience with them. No problem. You have your own stance.
But: say the truth about them. That is all. You are a fair game when you insult them across the board.
Those who are with or against Assad gonna come after you.
When you insult the Alawites over and over have some thick skin when they come after you. Do not cry ….
The Alawites do not have that many independent voices. Also the non Alawites want to talk to Alawies and do not know how. people like you mr. Sandro attack the first Alawite they see. Please know where I stand before you fabricate things about me You are behaving like a child or like an angry drunk.
You claim to be a Christian, but you talk like Jihadis….I personally do not care what you are. Why should I care.
where you stand is what matters to me personally.
There are Christians against Assad and more Christians with al-Assad.
As for the Minorities and where you stand from the Sunnis that is also your choice, if you do not see them as a threat that is your choice. Put that against what happened to the minorities in the middle east and let us see how deep you are sticking your head under the sand.
Minorities in the Middle East are getting wiped out by the hands of …?
Dear Syrian brother Sandro Lowe: What happened to the minorities in Syria and Iraq is atrocious and astonishing and if you wanna keep getting drunk singing Jihadi songs with the Sunni Jihadis that is your choice.
March 3rd, 2015, 9:27 am
SANDRO LOEWE said:
55. Brother MJARALI
I do not insult alawites, sunna or christians. You did.
I am just against the sectarian dictatorship that play with the fears and blood of the minorities and with huge amounts of lifes in the oppositon.
Dear brother MJABALI what happend in Raqqa and Mosul is happening because all of Assad, Iran and Obama wants it to happen. As long as you begin to accept facts and reality it will be much easier for you to understand what is coming next
March 3rd, 2015, 10:41 am
ALAN said:
50. OMEN
Please clarify the question
March 3rd, 2015, 3:28 pm
Observer said:
I am at a loss of where you find insult or injury? If someone is so thin skinned that every word is interpreted in a prism of pre conceived ideas then there is really no debate. The question is where can I find data on where the community stands? Just point out to me the documents and sites where it is clearly stated. Again 100% neutral not trying to bait or provoke, simply ignorant of the data and where to find it. Another unanswered question: since the community has “their kids dying in the thousands for the regime” were they coerced or participated willingly and if the later was it out of fear and lack of any alternative.
As for Ibn Taymmiah I have heard of him but never read his writings, I know that he is a source of some of the latest mumbo jumbo coming out of some of the Sunni fanatics and his mentioning remains irrelevant to the questions I asked.
Really now, simple neutral questions.
March 3rd, 2015, 3:32 pm
omen said:
enjoy your afternoon tea.
how many syrians will apologists continue to sacrifice??
March 3rd, 2015, 7:08 pm
Uzair8 said:
Muhammad Al-Yaqoubi @Shaykhabulhuda · Mar 2
On Nov. 26th, Al-Jazeera America interviewed me in their NY studio on ISIS, but the interview has not been aired; I challenge them to air it
https://twitter.com/Shaykhabulhuda/status/572569501578993664
March 4th, 2015, 1:28 am
Uzair8 said:
Muhammad Al-Yaqoubi @Shaykhabulhuda · Mar 2
Al-Jazeera Arabic, refers to ISIS in the news as “the Islamic State”. They should say, “the so-called IS”; do they think it is legitimate?
March 4th, 2015, 1:29 am
Mina said:
When the spiritual leaders of the minorities sell them instead of calling for resistance, you really wonder in what kind of world we live
http://english.al-akhbar.com/content/agreement-between-walid-jumblatt-and-al-nusra-front
March 4th, 2015, 10:56 am
mjabali said:
Observaaar:
If you want to know why the Alawites stick to defend al-Assad, read Ibn Taymiyah.
To make things easy for you:
All, I say all, Sunnis in Syria are affected one way or another by and from the teachings/Fatawa of Ibn Taymiyah. Also, All none Sunnis in Syria were affected directly because of the teachings/Fatawa of Ibn Taymiyah.
So, instead of reading mumbo jumbo from your hero Renan, read a little about Ibn Taymiyah the man who shaped modern Islam like no other….
March 4th, 2015, 1:18 pm
Sami said:
“All, I say all, Sunnis in Syria are affected one way or another by and from the teachings/Fatawa of Ibn Taymiyah. “
If that is not visceral hatred of sunnis, I don’t know what is.
You call out people of being sectarian when they mention anything about Alawites, yet feel so inclined to literally spout sectarian venom again ALL Sunnis.
You espouse a primitive thinking that is just as backwards as the idiotic sunni fanatics that are spewing hatred based on primitive interpretation.
No Mjabali, not ALL sunnis follow Ibn Tamiyah or give a big ol’pile of sh!t about him. Not all sunnis are out to kill Alawites, enslave them, and rape their daughters. Sunnis are not the boogey man haunting your dreams either.
Most Alawites dying today are soldiers, while most Sunnis dying are unfortunately civilian… Justifying their massacre by invoking history as an excuse because Ibn Tamiya made a fatwa that you believe has encompassed every sunni from thereafter in its guilt is just callously ignorant of reality.
March 4th, 2015, 2:29 pm
omen said:
58. ALAN said: Please clarify the question
alan, any evidence for what wes clark is saying?
March 4th, 2015, 4:36 pm
Alan said:
سني ، علوي ، علوي ، سني ، مسيحي ، درزي ، كردي تركماني ، فالج و لا تعالج ، توقفوا عن التكلم بهذه اللغة يبدوا كانكم تخدمون لدى برنارد هنري ليفي .
March 4th, 2015, 4:40 pm
omen said:
jihadi john used to be shia!
someone else notes fadhli trained in iran.
filed under “stuff cnn wont tell you.”
March 4th, 2015, 4:42 pm
Alan said:
Omen:
The Q is of your competent. I am living here in Russia. You can ask me po russki
March 4th, 2015, 4:47 pm
omen said:
69. alan
in other words, you lack evidence at the moment.
*smile*
March 4th, 2015, 5:26 pm
Mina said:
Thanks to whom has posted this on the SC twitter thread. Amazing reading.
“Before joining the jihad in Libya, and while he was still in Iran, ‘Urwah sent Rahman an email saying that “some of the Libyan brothers in England had talked to him about” an alleged offer.
According to Rahman’s summary of the email, which he relayed to bin Laden, the British wanted to cut a deal. “British Intelligence spoke to them (these Libyan brothers in England), and asked them to try to contact the people they knew in al Qaeda to inform them of and find out what they think about the following idea: England is ready to leave Afghanistan [if] al Qaeda would explicitly commit to not moving against England or her interests.”
Read more: http://uk.businessinsider.com/thomas-joscelyn-al-qaeda-was-planning-to-hijack-the-arab-spring-2015-3?r=US#ixzz3TSFfOUIK
Sounds familiar?
March 4th, 2015, 5:28 pm
Observer said:
Still MJABALI where do I find any documents or data on the position of the Alawi community towards the regime. If as you say the kids of the community have died in the thousands defending the regime, were they coerced or were they willing participants. You said to leave the community out of the discussion about the regime, so all I am asking is that you tell me or show me where to find the data. Please do not respond a cote de la question by mentioning Ibn this or Ibn that and by single mindedly painting all Sunnis with one single brush stroke of being this or that. In reality it is equivalent to the Sunnis applying a single brush stroke to paint the Alawis to justify their oppression or the Nazis painting the Jews so as to exterminate them.
Just answer the question please as where I can find information about the position of the Alawi community on the regime.
As for reading I am re reading ” In the First Circle ” Solzjhenistin about the Kafkaesque system of the Gulag in the former Soviet Union, I recommend it, another book that I recommend you read is
Why Nations Fail; MIT press if I am not mistaken.
Cheers.
March 4th, 2015, 5:39 pm
mjabali said:
Sami:
It is really great that not all Syrian Sunnis follow Ibn Taymiyah.
But, that does not mean that the teachings of Ibn Taymiyah did not affect everyone in the Syrian society, one way or another.
The line of rulers who followed the Fatwas of Ibn Taymiyah did not stop from the 14th C. till the 20th C. On top of all of that, his influence is getting stronger by the day especially with all of this sectarian ideas flying around.
The Sunnis has to stand up to the hardline Islam Ibn Taymiyah presented through out history.
I never saw a Sunni cleric standing up to Ibn Taymiyah to tell minorities like the one I came from, that you may have a chance to live.
Where is the Syrian Sunni cleric who did this? Who is the Syrian Sunni cleric that ever challenged the Fatawa of Ibn Taymiyah against the Alawites?
As for the dead, there are civilians on both sides. There is bombing against many Alawite and Shia villages and towns daily. People die there, but not on the same scale amongst Sunni civilians. This needs to stop at all costs.
al-Assad kills more Sunnis, that is true because he has more weapons, but, the Sunnis would kill many Alawites if they could. There was never an indication that things are going to be another way. Who comforted the Alawites about their future? Do you know anyone mr. Sami?
This is what we came up to. If we can not see this truth there is no way to stop this mad slaughter of Syrians from all parties.
All the insults you threw at me are forgiven because I know that you are the type of a Syrian who loves all and hate to be labelled that he hates others. Please look around you at where we are.
I hate no one, but, I tell things how they are.
March 4th, 2015, 8:47 pm
mjabali said:
Observaaar:
First instead of wasting your time with these books read something that would teach you something about the place where you were born: that is Syria.
I recommend a very important book to you to start:
Fatawa Ibn Taymiyah مجموعة فتاوى شيخ الإسلام إبن تيمية
It is online and you could read it for free. The Jihadis and Saudia Arabia made sure to have this multi volume book available. The Saudi educational system is based on it. Wahabisim is based on it too. Reading this book would help you mr. Observaar understand where the Alawites stand today.
As for the data regarding where the Alawite stand today, come on, who is the champ who can make a survey amongst the Alawites?
Who is the brave Alawite who would talk to strangers about where he stand in this especially for those who live in Syria.
There is no free will in Syria, so how come you gonna have a survey? Where do you live mr. Observacions…apparently you can not observe the real situation of the Alawites…
March 4th, 2015, 9:15 pm
Sami said:
Moaz Al-Khatib, Jawdat Said, and Yacoubi are to name a few. They have never called for anything harmful against people of other faiths. The exact opposite actually is what they preach.
And if an atheist that cares nothing about religion can attest to that why can’t you?
Also Mr. mjabali, I have lost dear and close people to Assads barbarism. One was even tortured to death calling for Syrian unity and the respect of international law and the rejection of violence. Your excuse that maybe because he was Sunni he deserves to be tortured into the skeleton corpse his body was delivered to his wife is utterly disgusting and is an incitement for horror.
So spare me your condescending tirade, not just Alawites know the meaning of loss.
If there was sectarianism from the revolution in its infancy it was far and few in between. The vast majority were calling for peaceful change while Alawite Generals were ordering their death, detention and torture. When Daraya rose up following the heroics of Gaith Matar it was barrel bombed and “cleansed”, and this sad story is true all over the map in Syria. The rate of soldiers killed to that of peaceful protestors is staggareing and anyone wanting to argue otherwise needs their moral compass checked.
Nothing, absolutely nothing justified their murder, detention and torture en masse.
If Sunnis need to reject the evilly within their community so do the Alawites. If reconciliation can ever be archived in our country every community in Syria needs to come to terms with the ugly truth about their own communities deeds.
I might be an atheist but the truth is I was as a Sunni and with that I was brought up with a certain set in beliefs and traditions, none of which ever was remotely close to the venom Ibn Tamiyah and his ilk spew. So, No, I was never influenced by him and I know this because I know how I was raised and what influenced me better than anyone else would like to think otherwise.
March 4th, 2015, 9:43 pm
Uzair8 said:
Mohamed Al-Yaqoubi, Shaykh in Exile
21st Feb 2015
[…]
As soon as the first demonstrations began, he sent a letter, through a mutual friend, to President Bashar al-Assad, whom he had previously met. In the letter, he asked, amongst other things, for the release of several political prisoners, as well as insisting on the removal of officials who were involved in the repression, from their posts. During our interview he told me, “I wanted to preserve national unity before it was too late.”
[…]
From abroad he began issuing statements, some of which rocked Syrian public opinion. Such as when he suggested that the killing of the popular Shaykh Al-Buti, who was known to be close to the regime in Syria and was killed in a bombing in 2013, might have been an operation conducted by Syria’s security services. Shaykh Al-Yaqoubi tells me about Shaykh al-Buti that, “He whispered that he was preparing for his defection,” without masking his hostility towards Shaykh Al-Buti, nor his sadness upon learning of his passing.
[…]
“I put mercy and the preservation of life at the centre of my actions,” he stresses, and pontificates that his role in a liberated Syria will be, above all, “To absorb all this accumulated anger, and let it diffuse within him.” In a closing, more muted tone, he offers, enigmatically, smiling, with a whisper, “The heart can sometimes do things that politics is unable to…”
http://sacredknowledge.co.uk/index.php/entry/45-mohamed-al-yaqoubi%2C-shaykh-in-exile
March 4th, 2015, 11:17 pm
Mjabali said:
Sami:
Actions speak louder than words. Mo’az al-Khatib, Ya’cubi and Jawdat Said did nothing practical to reach out to the Alawites. Nothing…nada…few words here and there do not cut it.
These days, if you did not notice, Mo’az al-Khatib defends Zahran Allouch the known sectarian who sends rockets into Alawaite areas in Latakia almost on daily basis these days.
What happened to your friend in the prisons of al-Assad is a crime and those who did it should face justice.
Every Syrian had lost dear ones in this mess, if not by al-Assad, it happened by the others.
Only rationality could solve the Syrian bloody mess.
March 4th, 2015, 11:48 pm
Sami said:
Mjabali
I don’t espouse hatred, never have. I don’t for a second believe that you should pay for Assad’s and his generals crimes because they happen to be Alawite.
I know the actions these idiots took is not only to the detriment of Syria but is especially so to the Alawite community, it is being held hostage by the clan that will kill its own mother in order to stay in power. They do not “protect” nor do they care for the Alawites. Just themselves and their own survival.
Just as you don’t want Alawites to be held responsible for Assad why should Sunnis be held responsible for Daesh and Ibn Tamiyah?
If I use the same logic you’re using then all Alawites have been affected by Assad and therefore they all want to kill Sunnis. Doesn’t this statement boggle your mind and anger you for its generalization and deception that it is? Why can’t you see how your statements have the same effect otherwise?
You’re a very logical person from what I have read here Mjabali, proud of your community and your origin. I agree with most of what you say, but that was abhorrent and I am sorry to say so. FYI I will never identify you as an Alawite, not because there is anything wrong with that there isn’t but because I know you want what’s best for Syria as a whole and not just your community.
March 5th, 2015, 12:08 am
Observer said:
To echo Sami’s comments, let me just note the following:
1. MJABALI states that the Alawite community should be “left out” and not associated with the regime.
2. The community is suffering as their kids are fighting to preserve the regime.
3. The community is sticking with the regime because what they see in front of them is a Sunni community in its totality following Ibn T’s teachings and thought process.
4. There is no way to find out what the community thinks as we cannot do a survey in such conditions (as if a survey was possible in peacetime before) and as if I asked for a survey results anyway.
5. There has never been a Fatwa denouncing Ibn T by Sunni clerics, yet there has never been an equal Fatwa denouncing the clan by Alawi clerics either.
All I am asking is for him to quote for me the declarations of any of the great Alawi community leaders, knowing very well that Khaier is in prison, but what about others does he know where they stand, officially or otherwise?
I am sorry to say that in his hatred and in his pigeon holing me into a Sunni fanatic no matter what I say he does not seem to read correctly what I am writing. I agree with him that the community suffered at the hands of the clan and that it will face a terrible fate when the regime falls and that this fear is driving them to fight to the death.
What I can note is the following: the regime is not capable of regaining the initiative, it is now buying time with the idea that the longer it lasts the more exhausted the population is and then it can negotiate a settlement; its offensives here and there are bogging down and taking this “strategic hill” or that “strategic village” is just hogwash. From what I gather, it is forcing young people to join its forces and sending them untrained to battle. It is being propped up at an ever increasing cost to its allies.
What I also note from the conversation is that MJABALI has now admitted that the regime is sectarian, is community based especially after the 82 fight with the stupid MB that wanted it sectarian to the hilt as well. Having said that the regime actually built institutions under the father only to have the son and his clan destroy that. As a matter of fact, if one is to enumerate the accomplishments of the son in an objective way one is hard to find any. As for building an Arab Syrian national identity it failed miserably and in this it is only equal to the so called “outside opposition” that sits in Paris and London cafes and pontificates.
Last but not least, it seems to me that Ibn T’s fatwas have actually become fully internalized not only among ” All Sunnis” but in a perverse way amongst ALL MINORITIES for they cannot look another in the eye without wondering how much of Ibn T’s fatwas are in his mind 🙂
Cheers
March 5th, 2015, 7:47 am
ALAN said:
U.S., Qatar Plan To Rebrand AlQaeda Into “Moderate” Rebels
The CIA supported and equipped “moderate” rebels in Syria are losing out against al-Qaeda affiliate Jabhat al-Nusra. The last “moderate” group active in north Syria, Harakat Hazzm, had to give up its headquarter -including a warehouse full of U.S. weapons- to Jabhat al Nusra and dissolved. Many of its members then joined Nusra.
The U.S. military plans to recruit, pay and train new “moderate” rebels but the effort is starting veeerrry slow. Just 100 have been vetted so far to be “moderate” enough for the program. There are simply too few non-Jihadi rebels and warlords available who are willing to die for U.S. dollars.
A solution to the lack of qualified “moderate” personal is the rebranding of non-moderate groups into “moderates”. James Clapper, the U.S. Director of National Intelligence, recently moved into that direction:……
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article41138.htm
Dempsey!
Are you Generale, or thimble player?
Obama!
Why are you spin and rotate? Be a man and do not hide behind your shadow if you want total war you have to announce it frankly, without a lie and hypocrisy. stop lying to your people. You will not be able to enter the big war because your mother will imprecate you, O deviant.
March 5th, 2015, 4:55 pm
ghufran said:
A painful blow to Nusra terrorist group in Syria one day after it tried to take AFI compound in Aleppo. Qatar and Turkey are feverishly trying to rehabilitate the terrorist group or establish a new entity that evades the “terrorist” label but still fight hizbullah and the Syrian army.
“Al-Qaeda’s Syrian wing, the Nusra Front, announced on Thursday the death of its top military commander, whom insurgent sources said died in an air strike that targeted senior militant leaders.
General Military Commander Abu Humam al-Shami, a veteran of wars in Afghanistan, Iraq and Syria, was the most senior member of the group to die in the Syria war, according to to an insurgent source.
The jihadist group used social media to announce that three other leaders were also killed.
But there was no word on the group’s overall leader, Abu Mohammed al-Jolani, who was also reportedly at the meeting in the northwestern province of Idlib.
Insurgent sources said a US-led coalition air strike hit the gathering in Salqin, near the border with Turkey, but a coalition spokesman said it had not conducted air strikes in the province during the past 24 hours”
(The Telegraph)
March 5th, 2015, 8:06 pm
omen said:
how many of you know this forest? assad burned it down.
you might not care about fellow human beings but surely a true patriot would object to iran steamrolling in to decimate the glory that is syria.
March 6th, 2015, 9:03 pm
Alan said:
Israel threatens Press TV Syria reporter over Golan photos
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=1ca_1425702552#5DyjcgOGIuUP1YM6.99
March 7th, 2015, 9:27 am
Alan said:
http://youtu.be/6Txrcpl49GQ
March 7th, 2015, 9:50 am
ALAN said:
Is Obama Pursuing Regime Change in Israel?
A rally seeking change in Israel’s leadership attracted tens of thousands to Tel Aviv’s Rabin Square on Saturday night. According to the event’s organizers, more than 35 thousand people attended.
Former GOC Northern Command and deputy Mossad chief Amiram Levin is among the speakers at the “Israel Wants Change” event, and former Mossad chief Meir Dagan announced last week that he will also speak.
March 7th, 2015, 3:47 pm
Observer said:
It is interesting to note the symbiotic relationship between the “resistance regime” and IS as the news of their selling and buying oil has made it to the sanctions of the “dealer” in charge of these transactions: Once again the situation is opaque but please oh please do not tell me that there is anything else but power worship to stay on top even it it is a garbage dump
http://www.dailystar.com.lb/News/Middle-East/2015/Mar-08/290015-eu-targets-syrian-middleman-it-says-bought-oil-from-isis.ashx
On a different note the silence is quite deafening but then again I guess that there is nothing to say except that Ibn T’s thought process is 100% prevalent in every living creature in the ME.
🙂 Cheers
March 8th, 2015, 9:06 am
ghufran said:
It does not look like the recent advances of the army in northern Latakia are similar to the old back and forth business. The army is now trying to Take Selma after taking Doureen despite the influx of “mujahideen” from Turkey. You know that something big is happening when the Othmani Khoja of the Istanbul coalition issues a “warning” about impending “massacres” by the Syrian army in villages currently occupied by foreign jihadists and Turkmen thugs. Also, the head of a Turkmen group has asked the UNSC to stop the army from “occupying” Turkmen villages in Syria(!!).
Nusra and ISIS (and the garbage in between)are now in control of 90% or more of rebels-held areas in Syria.
طز فيكن و بالثورة تبعكن
March 8th, 2015, 1:13 pm
ALAN said:
Iraqi Army Downs 2 UK Planes Carrying Weapons for ISIL?
ISIS in the Court of Miracles
http://journal-neo.org/2015/03/08/isis-in-the-court-of-miracles/
March 8th, 2015, 3:57 pm
ALAN said:
Washington and ISIS: The Evidence
‘The creative destruction?’
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article41168.htm
March 8th, 2015, 6:53 pm
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