The Syrian regime should either deny that the piolts are Syrians and declare its support to the people of Libya or should stay quiet which means that it supports the dictator Qaddafi!

On the other hand, the Syrian regime did worse than what Qaddafi is doing! It killed 20,000 civilians in Hama alone!!!

I was told by libyans that Ghadafi used syrian pilots in order to repress revolts since long time ago ,now that Ghadafi’s regime is damned for good and because of the secretive nature of the syrian regime,i dont see how the syrian regime would support Ghadafi in a so blatant manner ,but it could be true .France 24 said that anti-Ghadafi fighters have found syrian identity papers on the body of one pilot ,the other was libyan.
Also ,intelligence online site has published an article on this matter days before the Sukhoi was shot down but the article is not free.
http://www.intelligenceonline.fr/renseignement-d-etat/zones-grises/2011/03/03/des-mercenaires-syriens-pour-l-aviation-libyenne,88417485-ART

Gulf Arab states call for no-fly zone over Libya

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/gulf-arab-states-call-no-fly-zone-over-20110307-120401-780.html

Aleppo!

Gk

Hama was 30 years ago and simplifying everything in Syria to “the regime” is not for someone with your level of knowledge or education.

If we never forget that Geagea, Aoun, and Jumblatt issued orders that led to thousands of people who died during the civil war in Lebanon (same time of Hama, more or less) then we would be also telling Aoun today that he would be a hypocrite if he condemned what is happening in Libya.

And really … Who exactly is Mother Theresa out there?

http://www.examiner.com/progressive-in-boston/harvard-business-guru-michael-porter-used-by-monitor-group-to-sell-khadafy

Anyway, “the regime” denied it
http://www.syria-news.com/readnews.php?sy_seq=129725

Is this what we call political reform.Criminals are pardoned , and innocent freedom demanders are placed in jail 3-5-7-30 years
this proves that dictators can not and will not lead reform.

No Majed ,Bashar won’t make guenine political reforms ,too happy with his image cult,he will be surprised by shoes attack on his face of stubborn 99% dictator,especially from the people who shouted once bil roh bil dam .

Alex,Bashar kills and tortures ,oppresses intellectuals,as his criminal father did prior and after Hama,now ,in your honest opinion, how would Bashar react when he will face mass uprising ?

“………..is to allow public-sector companies to change their status to joint-stock companies, subject to the approval of the prime minister and on condition that the company has been profitable in each of the three years preceding such a conversion….”

As long as the newly designated JSC is not a “Nationalized enterprise”, its Baathist directors and Managers are not the major stake holders (Russian Oligarchs scam) and they will pay in cash tender for share face value like all others, without any preferred status of Share Class. All that done accordingly, it will insure that JSC status change will be an enduring venture, with good prospects under any future Political condition arising in Syria. Otherwise, many Syrians will consider it as misappropriation and illegal divesture of Syrians Nationals Assets (Company founders and shareholders before nationalization).

If the JSC status change is for a Public Company that was founded and operated using Syrian State assets and budgetary finances, then it also need to adhere to those same fair transfer of ownership regulations to insure its continuance in the future under the same ownership, let’s not be declared obtained criminally through unconstitutional laws and ceased again to the benefit of the people of Syria by a genuine revolutionary people power risen in the coming few years.

The Syrian government has denied that any of its pilots were flying sorties for Gaddafi. Pro-regime news websites plastered the denial everywhere, which suggests that the allegations are being taken seriously.

On the other hand, the Libyan opposition are adamant that Gaddafi is receiving not only SAAF support but also Syrian know-how on counter-insurgency via “military advisers” that have been sent to Tripoli. But it’s not only Syria but also Algeria which is being accused of the same.

I wrote this piece yesterday trying to piece together the various evidence of Syrian involvement in Libya:

http://syriaintransition.com/2011/03/07/is-syria-secretly-supporting-gaddafi/

A few things which I failed to mention in the blog entry:
1- Visit by Ahmad Gaddaf Al-Dam, Gaddafi’s cousin and personal envoy, to Damascus in late February. Soon after returning to Egypt he announced his defection. Libyan state television did say that he went to Syria “on a mission.”
2- Damascus-based Al-Rai TV is currently the only channel which is pro-Gaddafi. Is that a coincidence? Perhaps not.

I suppose when the Libyan dictator does fall, all will be revealed.

Malik

Everything is possible, but what we learned so far is that the Syrians are not stupid and they are not reckless. Wikileaks revealed that everyone else (except Syria and Israel) did not know a thing about being cautious.

How would you rate your neutrality as you attempt to do the research you did and you are proposing to us here?

In other (sad) news:

http://www.monstersandcritics.com/news/middleeast/news/article_1623088.php/Report-Saudi-Facebook-activist-planning-protest-shot-dead

Alex: My neutrality is not the issue. The issue is Syrian pilots being used by Gaddafi to murder his own people with the explicit knowledge and approval of Bashar. As a Syrian, I find this to be very disturbing and I have a right to dig into the evidence to find out whether this is true.

If you visit my blog, (www.syriaintransition.com) you can read the whole Intelligence Online piece which alleges Syrian involvement at the highest levels. There is also other circumstantial evidence which points to the same conclusion. And of course, there is the dead Syrian pilot.

On the other hand, there is a Syrian official who is denying any Syrian involvement whatsoever.

That’s the evidence at hand. Readers: make up your own minds.

It sounds way too vague and highly doubtful (close to 0%), not one evidence linked the Syrian authority to such act, the guy might be working for money, or he may not be Syrian after all since everything the criminal clown Nero of Libya along his crazy family doing is a reflection of his instability so why the Syrian authority with its usual balance international policy get involved in such loosing game?
It doesn’t make any sense for any one with the slightest rational cells in his/her brain.
Writers: respect your readers’ intelligence

Malik Said,

((( 1- Visit by Ahmad Gaddaf Al-Dam, Gaddafi’s cousin and personal envoy, to Damascus in late February. Soon after returning to Egypt he announced his defection. Libyan state television did say that he went to Syria “on a mission.”)))

If Gaddafi’s cousin went to Syria on a mission, then he went to Egypt and announced his defection , It seems to me that his mission of seeking help from Syria for Qaddafi was a failure,

What do you all think ?,

Alex,
The regime who killed 20,000 civilians in Hama is still in power! In Lebanon, the regime changed and each recognized their mistakes and moved on!

Is Bashar willing to accept the responsibility of the massacre of 20,000 civilians in Hama? Are the people who were responsible published or at least relieved of their duties?

The report that 50 syrian pilots are working in Libya,along with large number of presidential guards.
I do not know if these news are correct,if they are it would backfire at Bashar,the news will spread fast and will get much bigger , it will be a mistake.
Annie Marie Slaughter suggested dialogue to force Gaddafi to leave,She thinks of him as a rational man,I think the best dialogue is military gains on ground,US is thinking of weapons supply to the rebels,this will lead to more bloodshed,that will requires UN intervention,next is US and europe involvement.

Majid,
Syria does not support separatist movements in any Arab Country, i do not see Syria interfering in Libya . with what is going on around the Mideast , Do you really think that president Assad will be wise to decrease his own security by sending the presidential guards for the sake of anybody, I doubt it ,

About the Estate tax , i understand where you come from, you come from the libertarian view, The reason i see for the Estate tax is to prevent an American generation who sits back and live off their parents money, not having all their parents money will give them enough but too much not to be productive parts of our society.

@Alex.
My comment on the Video of Aleppo, the sanitary butcher shop and all:

كيف قام الثعلب في العبث بسوريا تحت ستار البعث

Norman,

Are you calling the Libyan revolution a ‘separatist movement’?

Regarding the “Syrian pilot” shot down in Libya, Al-Jazeera gave no proof that he is Syrian. Did the TV station hear him utter words before or after hitting the grounds to ascertain that he has a Syrian dialect or was he wearing underwears made in Syria?! From the footage, he dived directly to his grave.

As for Intelligence Online, it is a French Zionist site specialized in publishing hallucinations much like the Zionist site Debka files.

GK

I did not expect Junblatt’s son to “accept the responsibility” of his father’s massacres. similarly, in 1982 Bashar was 17 .. a high school student who did not give a damn about politics.

I really hope you are a more reasonable man.

“the regime” is something that you seem to interpret to your liking. In Syria you decided (without knowing) that the officers who executed Hama are all still part of “the regime” in Syria, whereas in Lebanon you are much more casual … “In Lebanon, the regime changed and each recognized their mistakes and moved on”??

No … your regime in Lebanon in not President Suleiman, Presidents come and go … it is the same warlords, the real powers, who are responsible for up to 250,000 dead Lebanese during the civil war… they did not change. they are still on top of the power Pyramid in Lebanon.

It would be really silly if we Syrians go to Lebanese blogs today and keep reminding you that your warlords are still there, and it is outrageous of some of you who come here to keep trying to squeeze something out of what happened 30 years ago in a desperate attempt to make Bashar elAssad responsible for bloodshed that took place when he was busy studying math and physics in his bedroom.

Malik

You know that you are a full time anti Assad propagandist. Your role is to find dirt or to create it.

You call yourself “opposition”.

Some of your criticism is valid and “the regime” deserves it… And I’m happy you have the courage to criticize them.

But please, if you want to come here and advertise your site, then try to spare us the “analysis” and stick to facts…. not facts from Pro-Likud sites, not facts from M14 sites, not facts from Khaddam sites … not facts from Islamist sites … These are propaganda outlets just like Syria’s official Baath newspaper which none of us quotes.

In 2005 until 2008, we had to waste our time with the childish “opposition” to “the murderous thugs in the Syrian regime”. An “opposition” that came up with these brilliant stories on a daily basis:

http://www.kurdistanabinxete.com/Rojnamen_iro/Heyva09/Asad_Beri_Nesrelah.htm

قتربت حبال ميليس من رقاب قتلة الحريري
الأسد اجتمع ببري ونصرالله لإعادة إشعال لبنان

دمشق – خاص:
أكدت المصادر المقربة وشديدة الخصوصية ل¯ »السياسة« ان اركان النظام السوري الذين يعرفون أنفسهم, ويعرفون ماذا فعلوا وارتكبوا منذ اتخاذهم القرار بتمديد ولاية العماد اميل لحود في رئاسة الجمهورية يعيشون الآن حالة لا يحسدون عليها من الهلع والارباك, بعد ان تأكد لديهم أن التقرير النهائي لرئيس لجنة التحقيق الدولية في جريمة اغتيال الحريري القاضي ديتليف ميليس سيوجه إليهم تهمة الارتكاب لا محالة, خصوصا وأن الرجل اوشك على الانتهاء من تركيب الصورة, وحل الرموز الغامضة للجريمة, وتسمية المرتكبين باسمائهم.
واضافت المصادر ان اركان النظام السوري, المأخوذين بالرعب الشديد من الايام الاتية, يتضاعف لديهم الشعور بالهلع كونهم فقدوا ادوارهم في المحيط العربي والدولي, وفقدوا المراجع الكبرى, العربية والدولية, والتي غالبا ما كانت توفر لهم غطاء الطمأنينة.. لقد بات اركان النظام السوري وحيدين, وفي عزلة خانقة, وحالهم تماثل المحكوم في داخل الزنزانة ينتظر يوم تنفيذ الحكم فيه.
وسط حالة الاختناق هذه قرر اركان النظام السوري الذهاب الى حلفائهم التقليديين في لبنان, ممن استزلموا لهم, ودخلوا تحت وصايتهم اكثر من ثلاثين سنة, للتفاهم حول طريقة تخرجهم من هذا المأزق الخطير, وتبعد عنهم كأس الاتهام المرة بأنهم كانوا هم من قتل الحريري وفجروا

وقالت المصادر ان المجتمعين الثلاثة, الأسد, وبري ونصرالله, تدارسوا فيما يجب عمله لاحباط تقرير ميليس النهائي.ووردت الى اذهانهم فكرة العمل, بكل ما هو مستطاع, على عرقلة اعمال رئيس الحكومة فؤاد السنيورة, واجهاض النتائج الباهرة التي حققها في الاجتماع الدولي الجانبي الذي عقد اخيرا في نيويورك للبحث في طرق مساعدة لبنان, حيث تلقى السنيورة في هذا الاجتماع دعما دوليا لحكومته, بعيدا عن حضور لحود الذي استبعد وسحب الاعتراف الدولي برئاسته, واضافة الى ذلك تم البحث في كيفية اعادة الاضطراب وعدم الاستقرار الامني للبنان, اما عن طريق اعادة العمل بلائحة الاغتيال, او باعتماد المتفجرات المتنقلة بين المناطق بغية اثارة فتنة في البلاد تسترجع أجواء الحرب والانقسام وتقضي على روح »ثورة الأرز« التي اندلعت في 14 مارس (آذار) من هذا العام.

وعلى صعيد آخر ذي صلة ذكرت المصادر ان أركان النظام السوري, بعد ان فوجئوا بقلم التسجيل الذي سجل عليه الحريري كل تهديدات الأسد له, وبأنه سيدمر لبنان فوق رأسه, اذا لم يقبل التجديد للحود.. بعد ان فوجئوا بوجود هذا القلم, وبأن الشريط المسجل عليه قد أصبح في عهدة القاضي ميليس, اخذوا يتنبهون اكثر فأكثر الى زوار الأسد.

http://www.14march.org/archive-details.php?nid=MTM3Nzk2

كان رئيس النظام بشار أسد نقل اول من امس على عجل الى المستشفى, دون ان يذكر السبب, او المرض الذي ألم به. لكن المصادر تقول ان أسد مصاب منذ أمد طويل بالارق وقلة النوم وتوتر الاعصاب, ويعاني من عدم التركيز الذهني والرغبة في تناول الطعام, ومن ضغوط كثيرة تمارس عليه من قبل وسطه العائلي الذي يبدو انه غير مقتنع برئاسته التي يتولاها عنه فعليا زوج أخته آصف شوكت. وتوقعت المصادر ان تضافر هذه الظروف السيئة عليه ادى الى اصابته بانهيار عصبي ادى الى ضرورة ادخاله الى المستشفى لتلقي الاسعافات السريرية الفورية اللازمة.

So, please … spare us these analysis where you quote other propaganda sources and then they quote you and the whole thing becomes a fact just because you quoted each other.

We have had enough for years and I can see you guys coming back these days with the same tactics from 2005. We don’t want to spend hours trying to discuss and analyze dramatic stories about the recording pen that Hariri had in his pocket at the time that recorded Bashar’s threats which Mehlis was planning to use to prove Assad is guilty …etc.

When we get to know for a fact that Syria officially sent pilots to help Qaddafi AFTER the revolution, then we will all tell them how shameful their actions are.

Nafdik,
I do not know what to call it but it will probably lead to divide Libya, I hop that i am wrong .

Haytham Maleh is freed,great

Syria should release all political prisoners as keeping in jail will just increase their status .

Yossi

Thank you for your helpful response. It is much more informative than using Google.

Funny you mentioned Conrad. He once sailed on a ship called Palestine. He renamed it Judea. Was that the first “literary” land grab?

Came across this synopsis of Gaddaffi’s future on a European web-site.

” If Gaddafi decides or is forced to do alyah, he can easely reach Israel as so many other criminals have. The reason is simple: Gaddafi is not only of Jewish origin, but is an observant Jew, which may explain many mysteries as to why any initiative on his supposedly anti-Israel stand seems contrived.”

Its like “The Twilight Zone” that used to be on American tv a few years ago!

norman,
ALL political prisoners in Syria already posses an excellent status and very deep in the Syrian mass,
Norman…
I have a feeling that Faris Al Khoury will be repulsed by statement like that, He was a free minded Christian, and fought for free Syria…

Attasi,
What are their achievements, and contribution to Syria in deeds not words,

Faris AL Khoury will not bad mouth Syria, he might show the government how it can make things better, but will not sit back and blame others while contributing nothing ,

It is astonishing to me that you think that Faris Al Khoury being christian gives him high marks in my book, he was instrumental in bringing independence to Syria and probably was the only christian who was given the chance to serve Syria,

Faris AL Khoury will not bad mouth Syria..NO ONE IS.. SYRIA IS NOT ONE REGIME, SYRIA IS NOT THE BAATH, SYRIA IS NOT TYARANNY
Don’t equate the regime or you beloved Baath to SYRIA …
SYRIA associated with her born free citizens ONLY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qbwsEj5Ams&NR=1

Hytham Maleh has done a lot in the field of human rights,for 50 years,he was honored by international human right organization, I believe he should be the next president of Syria,hopefully soon.

When the US and the West impose sanctions on Syria because of what you and the other opposition say , they do not impose them on the regime, they impose them on the Syrian people and you and others are responsible for that not the president or the Baath party, It is all on you , i hope you can carry that burden.
I would not be able if i were you.

Majid
I thought that you are more issue oriented than personality oriented . i was wrong .

Twisted thinking.

US and the West already imposed some kind sanctions on Syria and it’s not because we wrote at syriacommnet !!…I don’t know what you are implying, are you saying NO one should say the truth, should shut up, and cover-up for the regime misdeeds so the people don’t get harmed? What kind of logic are you basing your assumption

And i thought that you will come back with positions you like about him,

and by the way Norman, We are not an opposition, nor belong to any party or group …We are Just a humble free thinkers, and just like you we love syria…

Attasi,
I do not think that you speak ill of your family in your neighborhood, no matter how much disagreement you have with some members .
That is all what i am saying . the re are many people who will take advantage of that.

The Judaization of Gad-Fly NewZ

Ghat,

Now that “Gad-fly” is a practicing religious Jew, how do you explain why President Reagen (and other neo-cons) bombed Gad-fly’s palace and why George W. Bush (and other neo-cons) disarmed his nuclear and WMD capabilities?

And I’ll remind you, that both of these actions caused a huge out-cry in the Arab world.

A meeting of the Non-Aligned Movement said that it condemned the “dastardly, blatant and unprovoked act of aggression”. The League of Arab States expressed that it was outraged at the United States aggression and that it reinforced an element of anarchy in international relations.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Libya

http://articles.cnn.com/2003-12-19/world/libya.nuclear_1_british-inspectors-nuclear-program-libya?_s=PM:WORLD

http://www.investors.com/NewsAndAnalysis/Article/564759/201103021902/A-Free-Iraq-Prevented-Nuclear-Libya.aspx

I think the REAL question is why it took the Arabs 42 years to turn against this terrorist.

Norman,
I disagree with you on this one too sir, wrongdoing must be exposed, If my family is harming my whole neighborhood,.. I will speak ill of the offenders .. Trust me

Attasi,
Let me spell it out to you , i did not mean if one of your family is doing something wrong to the neighborhood, I am saying that if you disagree with your wife on some issue , you do not go and tell the people at work , do you ?, as you know it might be taken more seriously than you want.

@Atassi,

Fares Al Khouri was not the only Christian in the fight for Independence. He is the most famous one. In fact Christians were the base of the Independence Movement. In Khouri time, there were no pronounceable religious classifications of Syrian Society whatsoever, it was never used. The National Parliament was freely elected regardless of person sect. Unlike Lebanon Asfourieh, the legal and legitimate Syrian Parliament was not a sect / seat ratio based. Sectarianism in Syria was introduced by the Baath Party, mainly to acquire the memberships of minorities for support base, and used sectarianism to instill fear in the members to keep’em on board. In fact even up to 1963, the year the Baathist illegally ceased power in Syria, almost all established Moslem families sent kids to Jesuit or Franciscan schools. At the Jesuit school in Homs, the students were some Christians, but largely Sunni, few Jewish students and even sects that were extreme Shia have attended, we all played ball on the same team. Sectarianism did not exist at all; the conflicts in the country were related to Socio-economic, the Cold War and Arabism vs. Syrianism. Never about religion or sects share of power. Alawaites were freely elected to the parliament and are given full access to the State including the military, at which they took control off. It was the military academy in Homs that Hafez Assad graduated. Christians as well, had full and fair access to Government, public schools and military. Syria was in short period, a developed country, socially, politically and economically until the Baathist illegally, exclusively, took power of State, Society, the Military and economy.

@Norman, “..When the US and the West impose sanctions on Syria because of what you and the other opposition say..”

No, they don’t giva a damm about Syrian opposition. The U.S. imposes sanctions on behest of Israel, which is determined to keep that nation as backward as possible. It is part of Israeli defense strategy, and it is using the same to deal with Iran progress today. The United States, England and France, even the Pope and Khadem Alharamaine, literally has bent over to Hafez and Bashar, and they still do.

Dear Norman,
You are a trouble maker today 🙂
1- Attassi is absolutely right writing that “SYRIA IS NOT ONE REGIME, SYRIA IS NOT THE BAATH, SYRIA IS NOT TYARANNY” and we all should agree with that statement regardless of our political backgrounds because the belonging sentiment to Syria the country is what get us together neither the regime nor the Baath and defiantly not the tyranny.
2- I respectful disagree with your first sentence on #30 comment; when you live in an authoritarian regime all you can do is either to keep your mouth shut and not to show any opinion or face jail, therefore you don’t see many ‘deeds’ done by any opposition (we don’t even have any opposition inside the country to watch and question the government for it’s wrong doing) you may (only after President Bashar got in power)see such achievement outside the political sphere and hear or read the names of few Syrian individuals who are doing something to be praised for.
3- it’s not fair to put all oppositions under the American/West collaboration category in your comment #32, we have many Syrians who are defending our rights without the need to take the west side and we need to be fair for those and support there efforts because they are doing us and our children the favor of being free of fear when we want to state our opinions.
4- the Baath and the Authorities have their share of Syria not being as advance as it should be and you/me or anybody can’t take that responsibility off their back, it’s their duty to do it and they need to take responsibility of doing better job than what we see today.
5- I think every person has the right to vote for whoever he likes to be in the position of the president, so as you have the right to vote for your US president candidate, Majed and anybody else has the full right to vote for his favorite Syrian candidate, stop being a bully 😉

Jad,
Here it is ,
Even you Brutus ,
i will always say to all of you,

((( If you have the mouth to criticize , you should have the heart to contribute)))

Gaddhafi’s Israeli relatives in an interview to Israeli TV in 2009. The older lady shown is his second cousin. His grandmother was a Jew who married a Muslim and converted to Islam. This means that by Israeli law he can indeed seek asylum in Israel. If he did that he could run for mayor of Netanya (where there’s a big cluster of Tripolitanian Jews) and win the elections.

Excerpts (French subtitles)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5p2rEw4X3R8&feature=related

Full video (Hebrew only):

Yossi,
What is the big deal about having a grand mother who is Jewish , my mother from Nazareth, her grandmother might have been Jewish one day.there are no pure especially in religion .

LOLOLOL Brutus? I’m hurt 😉
Allah Ysam7ak

This means that by Israeli law he can indeed seek asylum in Israel.

Yossi,

Maybe Hitler too.

Anyway, Gad-Fly’s religion is well known…

http://www.reuters.com/article/2007/03/30/us-religion-gaddafi-idUSL3059334720070330

Mentioning David Feith’s father is interesting. Is it fair game to start talking about the irony of your Alawite wife and her father’s army career?

Jad,

You started it, you hurt me first agreeing with Shami, Attasi, and Majid. I have feeling , you know .

Norman,

That’s right… it’s just an interesting piece of trivia.

Norman my friend,
Fine, I hurt your feeling, you hurt mine let’s call it even this time and go back to neutral, 0-0 and ‘that is my take’ I hope it will be yours too 😉 Deal?

Jad,
Yes, All is good .
Can you tell me what you think about the water project in eastern Syria,

Thank you Norman 🙂
I’m not expert in water management as OTW (Dr. Elie Elhadj should write us his opinion) so I will stick to what OTW wrote you yesterday, that not too much information are out there to evaluate, however, if they are not going to update the watering system to something more efficient and less wasteful than the typical method they are using today nothing will change and will come back here couple years later discussing the problem.
So my answer is that I don’t know if the project is good, helpful, useful or not it’s up to the experts to let us know their opinions.

While I agree with Ehsani that economic was the spark of these revolutions , in the Arabic world, I do not think that economic is the cause, I believe the cause is the excessive level of weakness the Arab has reached,there was similar feeling in 1915,and that started the great Arab revolution,but what we got was,regimes of dictators, the youth nowaday blame this weakness on the dictators,they got us to this level of weakness,even that we have a lot of resources,It was a nightmare,let us hope for a bright pleasant dawn.

Congressman King from New York with Eric Cantor’s support, is fanning the flames against the muslim community in the US, by conducting his witch hunt (congressional hearings) in congress today. The ACLU with forty other organizations have just issued a statement denouncing the hearings for the singling out of a whole religious community.
Shame on you King, Cantor and all of you bigots and intolerant members of the house committee that have agreed to this hearing.
We stand with our Muslim American brothers and sisters today in solidarity and support and tell them you are good Americans and good people in spite of King’s and Cantor’s stand.

talking about Kings, it reminds me to share this brilliant video clip from Lebanon about the little angel king Saad Hariri …

And the news from today …

http://www.assafir.com/Article.aspx?ArticleId=838&EditionId=1791&ChannelId=42077

سرقة نحو نصف مليار دولار
فضيحة «سعودي أوجيه»: اختلاس أموال.. و7 موقوفين

مازن السيد
غداة عودة رئيس الحكومة المستقيل سعد الحريري من السعودية، أكد مصدر مقرب من مؤسسة «سعودي أوجيه» التي يديرها الحريري، أن المؤسسة متورطة في قضية اختلاس أموال عامة سعودية، عبر عقود تعهدات أعطيت لشركات أخرى، وأن عدداً من موظفي المؤسسة من اللبنانيين (7 حتى الآن) ومن زبائنها ومزوّديها يتعرضون للملاحقة القضائية من قبل السلطات السعودية.
وذكر المصدر لـ«السفير»، أن الاتصالات التي أجراها الحريري مع عدد من المسؤولين السعوديين على هامش زيارته لم تفلح في تحقيق أي اختراق حقيقي في هذه القضية التي تمس بسمعة «سعودي أوجيه» عربياً وعالمياً، وقال المصدر اللبناني المقيم في الرياض، إن «مسؤولين في «سعودي أوجيه» كانوا يوقعون عقود مقاولة فرعية مع شركات لبنانية خارج نطاق اختصاصها، لتقوم هذه الشركات بتوقيع عقود مقاولة أخرى مع أطراف ثالثة بمبالغ تقلّ عن الأولى بكثير».
وأوضح المصدر أن «سعودي أوجيه» توكل مثلاً إلى شركة مختصة بالكهرباء، بناء فرع من مشروع عقاري، مقابل عقد قيمته 20 مليون دولار. فتقوم هذه الشركة التي لا تبني شيئاً بدورها، بإيكال المهمة إلى شركة أخرى مختصة، مقابل 4 ملايين دولار، فتبقي مثلاً على 8 ملايين دولار لنفسها، وتردّ 8 ملايين إلى مسؤولي «سعودي اوجيه».
ويؤكد المصدر أن «هذه الأموال هي في الأساس اموال الحكومة السعودية» التي تنفذ مشاريعها عبر «سعودي اوجيه» التي اسسها الرئيس الشهيد رفيق الحريري ويديرها سعد وشقيقه أيمن حالياً، مضيفاً أن يوم الخميس الماضي في 24 شباط 2011 «تم اعتقال 7 موظفين في «سعودي اوجيه» من قبل السلطات القضائية السعودية، وأحدهم إداري معروف يدعى (أ. م.)، وأشار المصدر إلى أن الإداري المذكور هو مسؤول في قسم المبيعات في «اوجيه» فيما تشير صفحته، التي من الممكن أن تكون غير مزوّدة بآخر المعطيات، على موقع «بلاكسو» للسير الذاتية المهنية أنه «مساعد مدير قسم» في المؤسسة المذكورة.
وفيما أكد المصدر أن ما لا يقل عن 10 أشخاص متورطين في هذه القضية، بينهم سبعة أوقفوا، أشار الى أن عدداً من زبائن «اوجيه» ومزوديها المتورطين غادروا السعودية وعادوا إلى لبنان، بتشجيع من مواقع بارزة في المؤسسة في السعودية ولبنان، «ويتم تناقل أنباء حالياً، حول استعداد الحكومة السعودية لطلب ترحيلهم لمحاكمتهم، واسترداد مبلغ يقدّر بحوالى 400 مليون دولار على الأقل»، ويمثّل قيمة الاختلاسات، لا قيمة العقود كاملة وهي بمليارات الدولارات.

ISRAEL NEEDS $20 BILLION MORE IN AID FOR JUST IN CASE.

Israel may request an addition $20 billion in military aid from the United States in light of the unrest sweeping the Arab world, Defense Minister Ehud Barak told The Wall Street Journal in an interview published Monday.

Barak deemed the changes in the region a “movement in the right direction”, and said that in the long run, Israel should not fear the “movement of Arab societies toward modernity.”

But in the more immediate future, he told the WSJ, Israel would have to contend with the fact that IRAN and SYRIA “might be the last to feel the heat” and join the trend of unrest.

In addition, Barak said, Egypt’s new leaders may adhere to the country’s 32-year peace treaty “for the time being,” but could eventually succumb to popular pressure against it.

“It might be wise to invest another $20 billion to upgrade the security of Israel for the next generation or so,” he said, adding: “A strong, responsible Israel can become a stabilizer in such a turbulent region.”

Ghat
I just learned that a friend of mine is now a grand parent to a little baby girl. Shouldn’t the beggars in Israel and their thieving friends in the US squeeze two or three billion dollars more from US tax payers to confront this additional threat posed by a baby girl, who, now more than ever, will likely live in a FREE society and enjoy the liberties and dignity her great grand parents’ generation delayed for rhetoric, her grand parent’s generation abdicated by avoidance, and her parent’s generation most likely will get back for her with their own hands, and hopefully not with their blood. She will live FREE and not get arrested at 15, whence by then, she would have watched on her national TV the inauguration of at two DIFFERENT presidents.

Alex,
I think this kind of work called “Subcontracting” and it’s legal !!

Attassi
True, subcontracting is legal and is the way most construction firms conduct their business, but kick-back and cooking the books is illegal. It is a conspiracy to defraud the client and it is also illegal, and I believe it can land one in Jail for a decent few years in California when done against the state. The Hariris are not beyond contempt, they are as contemptible as any super-rich abusers of political power and connections.

Part of the problem is probably the corruption in Saudi business, which is as legendary as that in Syria. I would not be surprised if a portion of kick back is channeled to some mid-to-high ranking member of the royal family (Al Saud) or the clerical family (Al Sheikh) .

OTW,

Who knows? Maybe the little girl will think Pan-Arabism and Nasserism are the way to go? Maybe she will adopt the SSNP view? Maybe she will be attracted to the Muslim Brotherhood view? Maybe she will think that theocracy as Hezbollah advocates is the right way?

Let’s see which ideas win in the Arab world in the next few decades and what Arabs mean exactly when they speak of democracy and freedom. And as you mention, let’s hope the right ideas win without bloodshed (but we certainly can’t expect that).

AIG
Those young Arabs finally making their future care less what you or I think. And this is the first step in the right direction.

OTW,

What do you mean? How is what you or me think relevant at all to the question of what ideology will win and how?

AIG
I mean they are not burdened with our paranoias. They will have a rainbow of ideologies, and they will manage. Their creativity and determination already bypassed, rather forcefully, the stereotypes you are trying to scare yourself and others into, and the lack of creativity my generation of Arabs has scared itself into. They may occasionally elect a right wing government, all be it probably less racist the the current Israeli government, and left wing government, and centrist governments. They will enter into alliances and parliamentary blocks that will bring together Communists and Islamists, or nationalists. And along the way, they will develop their countries, and hold their heads high. And most importantly, they will not allow any one to control them, not even the biggest bully of the neighborhood, no matter how many Billions the bully manages to squeeze from the US. When they make a peace agreement, demilitarized zones will be on both sides of the border, not only on their lands, and they will not forfeit the sovereignty of their countries like Israel’s old friends.

OTW,

Since when is realism paranoia? Maybe what you say is true, but that is a 5% chance scenario in my opinion. We shall see.

And if the new generation will be obsessed with Israel as much as yours, they will surely fail.

According to American Ambassador Ford everything will be fine with Syria if Syria and Israel sign that peace agreement.

فيما يتعلق بالأولويات في عملكم، ما الأولويات بالنسبة إليكم كإدارة وكسفير في دمشق؟
فورد- بدءاً أرسل الرئيس اسمي مجدداً للكونغرس نهاية كانون الثاني (الماضي) لذا نتمنى أن يصوت الكونغرس لتعيين سفير في سورية هذا العام. ونحن سنحاول مجدداً. أما الأولويات فالأهم لهذه الإدارة هو إنجاز اتفاق سلام شامل في المنطقة كما نتمنى، ودوري هنا كوني سفيراً في سورية هو المساعدة في العمل لاتفاقية سلام بين سورية وإسرائيل، ونعتقد أنه إذا تمكنا من تحقيق اتفاقية فإنها ستساعد كثيراً على حل بعض الاختلافات الأخرى التي لدينا مع سورية.
يبدو لي أن ثمة تغيراً هنا، لأن آخر مرة تحدثنا فيها معاً، لم تكن عملية السلام هي الأولوية وإنما ربما العمل على مواضيع مرتبطة بالعلاقات الثنائية؟؟
فورد- إن استطعنا كما أعتقد إنجاز اتفاقية بين سورية وإسرائيل فسيكون بإمكاننا حل مشاكل أخرى كثيرة بين حكومتينا.
التقيت بالرئيس أوباما قبل مجيئك كما التقيت الرئيس الأسد حين تسليم أوراقك، ما العوامل المشتركة التي وجدتها بين الرئيسين وفي اللقاءين؟
فورد- أستطيع أن أقول إن الرئيسين لديهما اهتمام بسلام شامل وتطوير المنطقة. وأولا بتطوير سورية، ونحن لا نحمل نية سيئة لسورية، ونريد لها أن تكون دولة ناجحة، وقوة تطوير واستقرار في المنطقة. بعض سياساتها بصراحة وبرأينا لا تساعد في هذا الاتجاه، وهذا ما علينا مناقشته. لدى أوباما رؤية عن كيف يمكن للشرق الأوسط أن يلعب دوراً كبيراً في المواضيع السياسية والاقتصادية العالمية، وسمعتموه يتحدث عن المساهمات التي للعرب في الحضارة الإنسانية، ولاسيما التعايش السلمي حين تحدث عن الأندلس. وهنا أقول إن الرئيسين الأسد وأوباما يتشاركان هذه الرؤية في الوجود المشترك والتعايش وأنا خلال الشهرين الأخيرين لي في سورية تأثرت بالتنوع الذي فيها، والعلاقات الجيدة بين الأديان والمذاهب. وبصراحة أتمنى لو أن الأمور في العراق متشابهة مع هنا ولو قليلا. إنهما يتشاركان أهدافا مشتركا، ولكن الطرق للوصول إلى هذه المحطة وفق النظرتين الأميركية والسورية مختلفة في بعض الحالات، ويجب علينا إيجاد حالات نعمل بها معاً بدلاً من أن نكون ضد بعضنا البعض، ولا أدري ولست متأكدا، إن كان سيتحقق هذا النجاح، ومن الممكن أن يكون هنالك فشل، ولكن الرئيس أوباما يريد أن يحاول، وهذه هي مهمتي هنا…

زياد حيدر – صحيفة الوطن

AIG
you mean as obsessed with Israel as Daniel Pipes, Alan Dershowitz and the rest of racist neocons including King and Cantor (funny they are all Israel firsters) are obsessed with bearded Monsters in their closets? I doubt anybody can be that paranoid and obsessed. My feeling is that a majority of the new generation will ignore Israel and focus on the rights of their Palestinian brethren, and if Israel does not go along, then they will find creative ways to dealing with one of the few remaining undemocratic bullies in the neighborhood.

It is nice that Bashar regime decided to release political prisoners older than 70 years old! Will the regime allow him to express his opinion freely? Is the regime planning to have a limit on how long a President can serve? What about the corruption? Time to change and will be changed!

you mean as obsessed with Israel as Daniel Pipes, Alan Dershowitz and the rest of racist neocons including King and Cantor (funny they are all Israel firsters) are obsessed with bearded Monsters in their closets?

OTW,

Can you post a quote from each person you mentioned to show they are racist?

I hope this isn’t a secret to you, but the fact of the matter is that the ME is full of intolerant, violent people. Just today Christians are being slaughtered in Egypt. And every day, it something else. Moreover, the middle east is led by a bunch of thugs who have no qualms turning their guns on their own people.

OTW,

Let me know if you think the following author is racist:

http://www.memritv.org/clip/en/0/0/0/0/255/0/2063.htm

OTW,

All that matters is this:
http://www.google.com/publicdata?ds=wb-wdi&met=ny_gdp_pcap_cd&idim=country:ISR&dl=en&hl=en&q=israel+gdp+per+capita#met=ny_gdp_pcap_cd&idim=country:ISR:EGY:SYR

The new generation either closes the gap or it doesn’t. Talk is cheap. Meta-statements and meta-strategies, sloganeering and wishful thinking won’t cut it. Only concrete plans and achievements will do. The irony is of course that in order to close the gap, the new generation has to learn to accept Israel and normalize ties with it.

Akbar
You want a quote?
Here is your quote.
Representative Peter King of New York is scheduling a congressional hearing to investigate the radicalization of Muslim youth and how is the Muslim community dealing with it.
The ACLU and forty other organizations issued a statement yesterday, condemning the hearing for focusing on a single religious group.
Here is the rest of the quote.
If Peter King was not a racist, he should have asked the committee to investigate all radicals, regardless of religion, color or ethnic affiliation, and ask what congress and the country is doing about it, and not what one particular religious group is doing about it.
Would you join the ACLU and the rest of the country in condemning this racist approach to the investigative hearing?

Monty’s “ACLU” Moment

Montagnard,

I agree with you. But you know what, get back to me when you find an “ACLU” in an Arab country.

I’ve been through enough airport TSA lines where old ladies in wheelchairs are getting frisked and patted-down. There’s no common sense in US, because that would be “profiling”.

And speaking of thieves for that matter, you can thank arab fanaticism for the annual TSA budget.

the new generation has to learn to accept Israel and normalize ties with it.

G-d forbid.

AIG
Here is a gap, you may want to ask for congress help to fill.

http://www.google.com/publicdata?ds=wb-wdi&met=ny_gdp_pcap_cd&idim=country:ISR&dl=en&hl=en&q=israel+gdp+per+capita#met=ny_gdp_pcap_cd&idim=country:ISR:EGY:SYR:BHR:KWT:QAT:OMN

Dear OTW,
Do you believe that Israelis like AIG who represent the majority of his ilk and their American Jewish supporters like AP and the rest of his racist neocons would give the new generation a chance to even consider forgiving them?
We are all wrong if we dream of such thing in the near future they wont let our children to do that:

http://www.btselem.org/English/Video/20110214_CDP_Army_photographs_and_arrests_Nabi_Saleh_minors_at_night.asp

Ghat,
Add this to your endless list of the ‘peace loving’ Israel behaviors.

OTW,

How is what you posted even relevant? The oil production skews the results in those small countries.
http://www.google.com/publicdata?ds=wb-wdi&met=sp_pop_totl&idim=country:KWT&dl=en&hl=en&q=kuwait+population#met=sp_pop_totl&idim=country:KWT:BHR:EGY:QAT:OMN:SYR

The average Arab will be better off in 20 years or he won’t. It is not up to Israel or the US. We agree that the ball is firmly in the new generation’s court and their success or lack thereof will be easily measured.

Jad,

You don’t have to forgive us. Nobody is asking you to do so. The point is that you stop using us (Israel) as an excuse for not moving forward. It is not what Israel does or does not do that is responsible for the average Arab’s situation, it is the lack of accountable governments in Arab countries.

what does “firing on one’s own people” mean in what seems to be a civil war with the west apparently in the rebels corner?

if syria wants to defend the current govt against a possible western and zionist takeover, i have no problem with that.

back to palestine where soulless, godless, spiritually-dead monsters are on the loose to create poverty, misery, and death.

one monsters form of entertainment:

http://www.gilad.co.uk/writings/vera-macht-the-names-of-the-innocent-who-are-killed.html

THE NAMES OF THE INNOCENT WHO ARE KILLED

“This article is about Omar Maruf. What makes this one so important when every day dozens of innocent people die all over the world? Why an article about this one?

Omar Maruf was killed by a soldier who was heavily armed, and well equipped with everything the latest Western military industry has to offer. Omar was wearing old, dirty clothes, and collecting stones with his donkey. Omar was not even a so-called “collateral damage” who was unfortunately hit by a misguided bullet or bomb during a military attack. In our modern wars, where everything is precisely calculated, sometimes someone is just at the wrong time at the wrong place. But it wasn’t like that. No, a young soldier, heavily armed and well equipped, targeted Omar, who was standing there, with shabby clothes and stones in his hands, and decided to shoot him. A young soldier on a sunny winter morning felt the need to kill a man his same age who he probably considered as not so important. He knew that this act would never have any consequences. That he wouldn’t have to justify that deed to anyone. Because it was a Palestinian who has no rights, whose life doesn’t count.”

Question to SC Participants:

Should the US government try to oust Gad-fly using military force, or should the US stay out?

Excellent start:

انتخابات بلديات 2011. .استرد حارتك وبلدتك
كانت فكرة وجود إدارات محلية تتمثل في مجالس بلدية منتخبة إحدى أهم المطالب الشعبية في الستينات.
صدر قانون الإدارة المحلية رقم 15 عام 1971 وقد استقبل بترحيب شعبي واسع في لحظة تفاؤل بتغير واسع.
جرت أول انتخابات للمجالس البلدية بعد بضعة أشهر وقد امتازت بقدر من الحيوية والديمقراطية ونجح عدد من الشرفاء.
التفت الحكومة على نظام الإدارة المحلية ولم تفعل صلاحيات المجالس حيث دخلت من ثغرة التطبيق التدريجي التي نص عليها القانون.
وبدل التوسيع التدريجي لصلاحياتها انتزعت منها تدريجيا مهام أساسية مثل الإشراف على خدمات مياه الشرب التي أعطيت لمؤسسة المياه، وخدمات الكهرباء بقيت خارج صلاحياتها، والمخططات التنظيمية أحليت للجان إقليمية معينة… وهكذا أصبحت مجالس تصريف أعمال ..
إضافة لذلك أوقفت الانتخابات في الثمانينات، وتم تعين المجالس، أو تمت انتخابات صورية انتهت بالتزكية غالبا.
في التسعينات تمت محاولة لتحسين صورتها، لكنها بقيت دون المستوى بكثير ولم تقنع الناس، فحتى أخر انتخابات في عام 2007 ظلت نسب المشاركة متدنية جدا والمجالس الناتجة هزيلة ..

الآن وبعد ما شهدته وتشهده المنطقة من تغيرات عاصفة تفرض على الجميع تغيرا في التفكير والسلوك، نرى ضرورة المشاركة الفعالة من أكبر شريحة ممكنة في انتخابات الإدارة المحلية المقبلة .. ليس فقط بالترشيح والانتخاب، بل بالتوعية وتفعيل الحراك الاجتماعي ليسترد الشعب سيادته على مقدراته ابتداء من استرداد مجالس مدنه وبلداته ولجان أحيائه.. وإعادة تفعيلها

ونأمل أن تكون هذه الصفحة مقدمة فعل إيجابي مستمر ومتصاعد نحو الانتقال السلمي إلى الديمقراطية، فبالأمل نبدأ وبالأمل نستمر وبالأمل سننجح.. فلا يأس مع الحياة ولا حياة مع اليأس.. والله الموفق

نرجو مشاركتنا بالنقاشات والمعلومات والاقتراحات.. في سبيل ذلك فالصفحة لكم

http://www.facebook.com/pages/%D8%A7%D9%86%D8%AA%D8%AE%D8%A7%D8%A8%D8%A7%D8%AA-%D8%A8%D9%84%D8%AF%D9%8A%D8%A7%D8%AA-2011-%D8%A7%D8%B3%D8%AA%D8%B1%D8%AF-%D8%AD%D8%A7%D8%B1%D8%AA%D9%83-%D9%88%D8%A8%D9%84%D8%AF%D8%AA%D9%83/187960904575650?sk=info

Are Zionist Terrorists to blame for Arab radicals?

Selective amnesia keeps rearing its head.

Here’s the roll-call [from delphiforums] on who introduced terrorism (along with biological, chemical and nuclear weapons) to the Middle East:
Bombs in cafés: first used by Zionists in Palestine on 17 March 1937 in Jaffa. (actually grenades).
Bombs on buses: first used by Zionists in Palestine on 20 August-26 September1937
Drive-by shootings with automatic weapons: IZL and LHI in 1937-38 and 1947-48 (Morris, Righteous Victims, p681.)
Bombs in market places: first used by Zionists on 6 July 1938 in Haifa. (delayed-action, electrically detonated)
Bombing of a passenger ship: first used by the Zionists in Haifa on 25 November 1940, killing over 200 of their own fellows.
Bombing of hotels: first used by Zionists on 22 July 1946 in Jerusalem (Menachem Begin went on to become prime minister of Israel).
Suitcase bombing: first used by Zionists on 1 October 1946 against British embassy in Rome.
Mining of ambulances: first used by Zionists on 31 October 1946 in Petah Tikvah
Car-bomb: first used by Zionists against the British near Jaffa on 5 December 1946.
Letter bombs: first used by Zionists in June 1947 against members of the British government, 20 of them.
Parcel bomb: first used by Zionists against the British in London on 3 September 1947.
Reprisal murder of hostages: first used by Zionists against the British in Netanya area on 29 July 1947.
Truck-bombs: first used by Zionists on January 1948 in the centre of Jaffa, killing 26.
Aircraft hijacking: world-first by Israeli jets December 1954 on a Syrian civilian airliner (random seizure of hostages to recover five spies) – 14 years before any Palestinian hijacking.
The only form of violent terrorism not introduced into Palestine by the Zionists was suicide bombing

“The only form of violent terrorism not introduced into Palestine by the Zionists was suicide bombing”

are you sure they didnt forceably strap a bomb to a palestinian then detonate it?

if from palestinians, not terrorism but a weapon of defense, even offense against an oppressor.

justified and legal and militarily approved.

AP,

We should mind our own business and stay out .

He may have Sunglasses but this Ain’t Hollywood NewZ

Norman,

Thanks for answering. I’m tending toward helping the rebels, because I would like to see democracy take hold in Libya (and I pretty much despise the SOB Gad-fly).

What’s the saying, “The road to Hell is paved with good intentions”.

Anyone else?

We Know Qaddafi, do we know the rebels .the minute we get involved they will call us imperialists

MONTAGNARD, NORMAN and ALEX.

An interesting “overdue” beginning!

Somewhat lost in the standoff between Wisconsin governor Walker/Koch brothers and union supporters are the kids. As if we didn’t already have a problem with the ‘deliberate dumbing down of America,’ students are the pawns in what is quickly becoming a contrived national issue that is a diversion away from more pressing and ultimately more important concerns.

Also MIA is what Richard Edmondson calls the “the global Zionist factor” in the controversy that is affecting all sides.

Last Saturday saw a flurry of “Save the American Dream” protests around the country in support of workers in Wisconsin who have maintained a vigil at the state capital in protest against an anti-union bill being pushed by the state’s governor. The spin-off solidarity protests, some of which drew several thousands of people, were held in all 50 states, in locales like Columbus, Ohio, Tallahassee, Florida, Lansing, Michigan, New York and Los Angeles. However, there appears to have been little if any talk or discussion—either at these smaller protests or the main event in Madison, Wisconsin, which drew an estimated 70,000-120,000 people—about the Zionist lobby or its adverse impact on daily life in the United States.

There are any number of reasons why average Americans, and especially members of public employee unions, might want to be concerned about this. The wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, for instance, and the trillions spent there, along with the billions given each year to Israel, inevitably mean less money for domestic needs such as public education. But even beyond monetary considerations is the corrupting and degenerative effect the Israel lobby has on American political life. With a long history, going back several decades, of pouring money into elections to defeat officials who advocated America adopt a more balanced position in its foreign policy, the Lobby has in effect coarsened and debased public affairs and government in America.

Of course the protesters in Wisconsin are in a difficult position. Many people involved in the protests are Jewish. Start drawing connections to Israel and you risk having the entire coalition fall apart. This is not to say such connections aren’t being made in the wider American labor movement as a whole. They are. A January 10, 2010 story on the website LaborNotes.org includes a quote from Kentucky school teacher Sharon Wallace, who had just then returned from Egypt where she had participated in one of two convoys attempting to break the Gaza blockade. “Palestinians,” she says, “are being exploited by the same entities that are exploiting U.S. workers.” The story goes on to add of Wallace:
She and a small but growing band of U.S. unionists—some of whom are Jewish—are fighting to educate fellow members and mobilize their unions behind a global call to pressure Israel with a boycott, divestment, and sanctions.

They face substantial barriers to winning union support: Activists say leaders of U.S. unions still seem enamored with the myth that Israel is a pro-labor government. In an October speech at the Jewish Labor Committee, AFL-CIO President Rich Trumka opposed international efforts to boycott Israel, suggesting that opposition to Israeli policy was anti-Semitism in disguise.

As would seem to be indicated by the example of Trumka—who has more recently made fiery speeches in Wisconsin—getting labor leaders to recognize the threat of global Zionism is going to be a sticky business. This is complicated even more by the fact that the U.S. labor movement and the Zionist state are intricately intertwined by means of investments that unions have made in state of Israel bonds. According to Labornotes.org, a total of 279 labor bodies in the U.S., including locals, labor councils, and the AFL-CIO itself, have purchased altogether some $5 billion worth of the Israeli bonds as part of their pension portfolios.

The changes in Egypt ,open the door for better relations between Turkey and Egypt,and Egypt is the only country,I think should help Libya,this is a great chance,Libya has oil,Egypt has educated people,Syria to Turkey would become second in importance.

Ghat,
Thank you , the American union movement is invested heavily in Israel, I do not know if they can make a stand.I doubt it .

AP

I do not think the American should interfere in the Libyan conflict. However it will be greatly appreciated if they can help us to regime change in Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Bahrain, UAE, Oman, Yemen, Somalia, Djibouti, Jordan, Palestine, Algeria, Morocco, Mauritania, and Israel.

Ghat
Labor unions worldwide have realized that Israel is no longer a labor stronghold. The labor party is no longer what it used to be in Israel. The underdog image that used to be exploited by Israel has been replaced with its true face, the face of the oppressor thug denying the Palestinians their basic rights.
Labor union members tend to be more activist than the average Joe and tend to have an affinity with the oppressed. The word “rights” resonates with them.
When the Israeli navy raided the Avi Marmara in its piracy action in international waters and killed Turkish activists in cold blood, labor unions were outraged worldwide and many took measures against Israel. One such action was in the bay area, where longshoremen union members in the port of Oakland in the San Fransisco bay, refused to unload an Israeli cargo ship in an unprecedented show of solidarity with the Palestinian people and as an expression of their outrage to the killing of innocent activists protesting the plight of the Palestinians in Gazza and the inhumane blockade they have been subjected to.
It is an overdue beginning indeed, which has started a while back and will only grow with time. We know that the Palestinian cause is a just one and American union activists are appreciating it more and more.

I do not think the American should interfere in the Libyan conflict. However it will be greatly appreciated if they can help us to regime change in Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Bahrain, UAE, Oman, Yemen, Somalia, Djibouti, Jordan, Palestine, Algeria, Morocco, Mauritania, and Israel.

Ziad,

Are you serious? What makes Libya’s government better than the ones you’ve mentioned above? In which of these countries do you
reside?

Ziad gives Gad-fly a break

So Ziad, basically you’re saying some regimes shouldn’t be challenged no matter what they do, but some should (the ones you listed above).

With what criteria do you pick a country worthy of “regime change”?

Death toll estimates have ranged from more than 1,000 to as many as 2,000. And the war has forced out 215,000 people, many of them poor migrant workers who have been stranded at both the Tunisian and Egyptian borders, the U.N. refugee agency has said.

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/africa/03/10/libya.civil.war/#

AP

The Gaddafi regime is one of the worst. The Libyan people will have to fight for their freedom. Arabs will help. The US is currently supporting all these bad regimes. It should concentrate on bringing its own house in order and stop fighting wars on credit. Wherever the US interferes, death and destruction emanate.

Another Landis Thread of Excuse-Making

Professor Josh doesn’t hesitate to excuse his favorite Syrian “First Family”:

Now David Feith is jumping on board the “We-are-outraged-at-Vogue” club. His WSJ article decry’s Vogue for puffing Asma al-Assad because she is married to the son of Hafiz al-Assad who “killed 20,000 Syrians to put down an uprising in Hama.” This is just a tad ironic coming from the son of Douglas J. Feith, who helped propel the US to invade Iraq where over 100,000 Iraqis have been killed and 4 million turned into refugees.

Professor Josh,

The glaring hole in the Iraqi Body Count data, is that it doesn’t distinguish which violent deaths were caused by coalition forces and which were caused by insurgents and murderers. Frankly, those caused by coalition forces are more apt to be mistakes than those caused by market bombers, etc.

Iraq Body Count (IBC) records the violent civilian deaths that have resulted from the 2003 military intervention in Iraq. Its public database includes deaths caused by US-led coalition forces and paramilitary or criminal attacks by others.

http://www.iraqbodycount.org/about/

And then, where is the outrage when investigators pulled 300,000 Iraqi skeletons out of Saddam’s mass graves?

Ziad,

Thanks. But I really don’t understand your CRITERIA for regime change. Can you be more specific in your explanation? If Libya is “one of the worst”, why wouldn’t you want to see the regime fall? Frankly, if the world community got involved, the Libyan regime could be finished with minimal casualties.

Akbar
Speaking of excuse making.
Are you excusing the coalition forces from what happened in Iraq, which was a direct result of the invasion?
You ask where is the outrage for Saddam’s mass graves.
In case you have not noticed, Saddam was hanged to death.
The one responsible for the invasion of Iraq, and its catastrophe, is working on his Library in Dallas and marketing his new book.
Where is your outrage? Are you going to call for a formal investigation of the invasion of Iraq? Or is Bush excused?

In case you have not noticed, Saddam was hanged to death.

Monty,

Saddam would be in power now (or one of his sons) if it weren’t for GWB. Saddam was brought to justice by the Iraqi government.

Or is Bush excused?

Good question. Considering that the UNSC gave Bush the legal right to initiate military action (with the vote of the Syrian government I may add), I would say he is excused. Saddam and the insurgents never confered with the UN to get permission to kill non-combatants.

Monty,

Should the international community back the ousting of Gad-fly? Or should we leave Gad-fly alone?

MONTAGNARD. Its not possible for those, as the ones described below to be outraged by the killings of millions in Iraq.

America’s Anti-Muslim Jihadists on the March Again
by M. Junaid Levesque-Alam, March 10, 2011

Remember the mad mullah who tried to build a terror mosque atop Ground Zero using the ashes of September 11th victims?

Neither do I.

But that campaign — the slandering of an imam sponsored by the State Department and the smearing of a proposed cultural center no closer to Ground Zero than pubs and porn shops — is worth recalling because America’s jihadists are at it again.

First there is the spectacle of Congressmen Peter King, an IRA terrorist sympathizer who penned a novel in which he saves America from Muslim terrorist sympathizers. Since no one cared to read it, King is intent on realizing his fictional fantasy by presiding over a show trial held on the equally fictional pretext that “the Muslim community” poses “a real threat to the country” and protects terrorists.

Then there is Pamela Geller, who exemplifies the grotesque neurosis that now afflicts many American Jewish conservatives. Geller admires fascist parties in South Africa and Europe (deemed kosher because they now want to exterminate Muslims instead of Jews) and denounces Jewish moderates (read: those who don’t advocate Palestinian genocide) as modern-day Nazi collaborators. Alongside her comrade David Yerushalmi, another Jewish figure who advocates white supremacy, Geller works to criminalize Islam under the pretext of banning “Sharia law” in state after state.

And finally there is “Brigitte Gabriel,” the alias of Islamophobia’s Oprah Winfrey. She rivets churches and synagogues by turning the complex history of the Lebanese civil war into a tale of bloodthirsty Muslims exterminating Christians — even though the war’s largest massacre was committed by a Christian group backed by Israel.

These recent assaults by Christian and Jewish conservatives have outdone last year’s in anger and ugliness. But perhaps the finest example is this video of Tea Party “patriots” shouting religious slurs at a Muslim charity event attended by women and children in Orange County, California. A rabbi, two conservative congressmen, and a city official named Deborah Pauly blessed the proceedings. Pauly darkly noted to her audience that she “knew some Marines” who would be “happy to help these terrorists to an early meeting in paradise.”

Shameful? Hardly — “Bravely Confronting Radicals,” chirps a right-wing outlet. Pauly later claimed that her vicarious death threat was actually directed at radicals in the Middle East, not anyone at the rally. Brilliant: she and her mob may soon beat up a few American Muslims and claim it as an even better way to “direct” their anger at shadowy enemies thousands of miles away.

The ugliness is bound to get uglier, because conservatives now face a serious challenge: reality. While the exponents of hate spew venom about Islam and the menace of its adherents, millions of ordinary Muslims in the Middle East are rising up in unison, showing immense courage, ingenuity, and resourcefulness as they vie for freedom against despots — most of whom rely on the United States for support.

So much for “they hate us for our freedom.”

And so much for Israel-first policy. That country’s American cheerleaders insist that whatever Israel’s atrocities, it should be excused because Muslims are animals who must be controlled. Now, it turns out that Muslims, too, might be human beings. And when the Palestinians inevitably apply the lessons of their Arab brethren, who will be left to defend Israel when a hundred thousand human beings march against the occupation?

This is what haunts and animates America’s fifth column: the lies they have so carefully cultivated to sink America in two wars and financial ruin may blow up in their face if their Two Minutes Hate cannot be extended ad infinitum.

Councilwoman Pauly, the elected official who called for the murder of her fellow Americans, shrieked at one point, “I don’t even care, I don’t even care if you think I’m crazy anymore.”

She’s right: America’s jihadists don’t care if you think they’re crazy — they just don’t want you to think the Enemy is human.

Akbar
Saddam’s sons were assassinated and were never brought to justice.
I watched the circus with all its episodes that was Saddam’s trial, and the last thing I would describe it is justice. It took place with the coalition’s oversight and approval.
The UN never agreed to the Iraqi invasion. As a matter of fact, the UN inspectors asked for more time to finish their investigations and they were ignored.
The evidence is clear now that the UN, like the American public and the world was manipulated by false information.

Are you excusing Bush? Where is your outrage?

As far as Gaddafi and Libya.
I tend to trust and respect the Libyan people more than the international community. I would leave it to the Libyan people to make their own decisions, and if they ask for any outside help, it should be provided with no strings attached, and under the full sovereignty and control of the Libyan people. It is not for you or any outsider to decide.

Story published in al Jazeera … Timing!
مجزرة سجن تدمر

http://www.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/E9E64DE5-9881-47F1-85C5-AE8DDBFB9159.htm?GoogleStatID=9

What about مجزرة مدرسة المدفعية، مجزرة الأزبكية, buses blowing, innocent people assasinating, what about the MB crimes they did to all Syrian who are not radicals as them does anybody mention those? or what count is only the ‘innocent’ Muslim Brothers? What a twisted reality!

Scary news:
جهات مختصة  تضبط شحنة كبيرة من الأسلحة قادمة من العراق لإثارة القلاقل والفوضى في سورية 
الاخبار المحلية
http://syria-news.com/readnews.php?sy_seq=129900

Scary indeed Jad.

But some interesting news too

بدوره وجه المشير طنطاوي شكره العميق للرئيس الأسد مؤكداً متانة العلاقة بين البلدين الشقيقين وحتمية فتح صفحة جديدة تكون قائمة على ثوابت العلاقة السورية المصرية المعروفة والمأمولة دائماً كما عبر المشير طنطاوي عن أمله بلقاء الرئيس الأسد في أقرب وقت ممكن.

http://www.sana.sy/ara/3/2011/03/10/336052.htm

The head of Egypt’s military council expressed his hope to meet President Assad soon and to open a new page of Egyptian Syrian relations.

Also, el-Baradei said during an interview on ON TV that Egypt’s relations with Israel were the master-slave type and he would never allow that again.

Who would send arms ,across Syrian Iraqee border? I hope the goverment tell us who,they should know it.there is no need to say his name is a-d,we need his full name

that Egypt’s relations with Israel were the master-slave type and he would never allow that again

Alex,

Two things:

1.) How is Israel enslaving the Egyptians? This sounds like “flowery” language.

2.) If you see Mr. el-Baradei (not sure what his title is in the new Egyptian government), tell him we Jews know all about slavery in Egypt.;)

BTW – Did you want to chime in on my Libya poll? Oust Gad-fly or leave him alone?

Daniel Pipes is cautious:

http://www.danielpipes.org/9586/the-shores-of-tripoli

Interesting:
http://af.reuters.com/article/egyptNews/idAFLDE72506G20110310?sp=true

Hi Joshua,
I would like you or someone, with relevant background, to please draw a factual comparison between the legal powers of the of Syrian regime vested by the emergency rules on the one hand, and the powers of the Israeli occupying forces over Palestinians.
Thank you very much.

AP
And Daniel S…..-pipes is your credible thinker? I had no idea Israel lowered your Hasbara training budget that far….

Without the need to indicate my own position on no-fly zone or intervention, the man advocates attacking Iran, a country much stronger than Libya, with both real army and special forces, and he wants to be cautious now…. He must have been paid by Qaddafi or he may have drank Qaddafi’s cool-aid. What a deranged paranoid pseudo-intellectual.

Next time you go writing your adoration of him on his hate mongering site, tell him no one is seeking his advise, it is worth a squat. He should be preparing for King and Cantor lynch theatrics in congress, that is the only thing he is good for, being a racist like the two of them.

Another Day in Paradise NewZ

OTW,

Is there any reason why you can’t render an opinion about US policy toward Gad-fly? We all know your feelings about Israel, Pipes, Cantor, ect, but that really wasn’t my question.

Oust Gad-fly or leave him alone?

So far, NO ONE on this website has advocated removing Gad-fly from power. Later today, I’ll make the obvious conclusion…

AP,
There is a difference between letting Qaddafi be removed or remove Qaddafi, The Libyan should decide, things are more murky than they looks and today it seems that Qaddafi is taking back control .

Haas today on MSNBC said that leaders that fight back tend to stay in power and we do not want to on the wrong side if Qaddafi wins, he can make our lives miserable by going back to his old habits and supporting all our enemies and there are many.

Norman,

I didn’t intend to ask an easy question (especially on THIS forum). Of course the Libyan people should decide, but there is no voting or democracy in Libya. That SOB has been in power for over 40 years, and the people need help. Right now, it looks like Gad-fly is staying put, because he has the aircraft, the tanks, and the baksheesh.

The stubborn Gaddafi would likely persist for months,Egypt and Tunisia,once they elect their governments,one of the possible scenarios and it’s the best one is that their armies would force Gaddafi to the exit door.
Thanks to the new popular dynamic in the arab world ,The Libyan people should avoid the humiliation of an asadian style transfer of dictatorship.
The stubbornnes of dictators like Gaddafi and Bashar will make their dismissal bloody,these dictators are a dying race as they are on the wrong side of the history.

It is in the interest of the US, EU (UK, France, and Italy) that Gadhafi remains in power. The oil is flowing, lucrative contracts and intensive investments in Europe where the oil money is returned to Europe. Letting Gadhafi win will have a chilling effect on revolutions in the countries that the US and the rest of the west really care about (KSA, Yemen, Bahrain …). It seems to me the strategy is to support the Libyan uprising in words only but let Gadhafi re-consolidate his power, for a happy ending for the west. They will have complete power over him by the threat of war crime tribunals.

Simple Question NewZ

Shami, Ziad,

Would you like to see the US and the international community remove Gad-fly by force, or should it be left to the “Arab people” (which may or most probably will not succeed)?

AP

Simple answer, I love to see fall of Gaddafi, but not with the help of US or EU. It is not in the interest of the US to see him go and they will not interfere.

Ziad,

OK. So far, no one here wants any intervention to oust Gad-fly.

I got one person from QN’s site who WOULD like to see outside “intervention” (airstrikes, etc).

BTW – I’m going to ignore the “not in the interest of the US” stuff. Believe me, americans hate Gad-fly as much or more than you do. q:o)

AP

Hating Qaddafi and toppling him through military intervention are two different things. Name one benefit the US gains by removing him.

If he can end the revolution in days then all is lost, but if it extends for months, you will see massive Arabic support at the popular level (collections, arms, volunteers) but not at governmental level. The more he bombs and destroys the fiercer the revolt will get. The Aljazeera factor is very significant.

The Bibi and the bar bouncer from Moldavia are now threatening western foreign diplomats with physical harm as well as demands to “Go home”.

Campaign of intimidation unleashed on diplomatic missions in east Jerusalem as settlers react against international condemnation of their illegal existence
AFP , Thursday 10 Mar 2011

Western diplomats working with the Palestinians have received letters warning them that they are “at risk” because of their nations’ criticism of settlements, sources told AFP on Thursday.

Sources at several foreign missions in east Jerusalem said a group of men who appeared to be Israeli settlers had handed threatening letters to diplomats as they went through a military checkpoint by the West Bank city of Ramallah.

The unsigned letter, a copy of which was obtained by AFP, warns diplomats to “Go home!”

“You are guests in our country! You are standing on the Holy Land of the Jewish nation. Do not interfere with the building of our country,” the letter says.

“The meddling by the American government and by the European Union is putting your stay at risk… We never will make peace with Palestinian terrorists!” the letter warns.

The one-page letter printed in capital letters is accompanied by a second sheet of paper printed with the words “President Barack Hussein Obama – with friends like you who needs enemies!!!”

An official at the US consulate in east Jerusalem, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said the mission’s employees had received the letter last week.

“The US consulate can confirm that it has been a recipient,” he said, adding that no specific additional security measures were being prepared.

“We have precautions in place already, but there’s nothing new,” he said. “We would defer to the proper authorities to deal with it.”

A spokesman for the Israeli foreign ministry could not immediately be reached.

Other diplomatic missions in east Jerusalem said the letter was being discussed.

“Internally we are aware of this and we are looking into it,” EU mission spokeswoman Antonia Zafeiri told AFP.

Israeli settlement building in the West Bank and east Jerusalem is among the most contentious issues in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

The international community considers Israeli settlements built on occupied land in the West Bank and east Jerusalem as illegal, and 14 of the 15 members of the United Nations Security Council last month backed a resolution condemning the Jewish state for continuing settlement activity.

Friday, March 11, 2011 3:43 PM Illegal settlers threat.

The illegal Israel settlers are the arm front of the group who believe that Israel should rule the greater Israel. There are up to 10 percent of the jewish citizens of Israel who are illegal settlers. The numbers are up to 1/2 million. They are unemployed and have not recorded source of funding. They are very dangerous thugs and if they make a threat they have a long history of being thugs. The big question in the light of this threat and other offensive conduct by the thugs is who are funding this army of rabble?

The rabble has been very successful at expanding the jewish influence by taking one arab home at a time. The defense director of Israel is presently asking for an additional 20 billion dollar in aid for Israel so we are clearly a major source of money for Israel. If he gets his wish the USA will be providing $175,000 for every IDF soldier. At the present an Israeli company is providing armed soldiers for Libya’s Ghadaffi.

Hating Qaddafi and toppling him through military intervention are two different things. Name one benefit the US gains by removing him.

Ziad,

True. “Most” Americans both hate Gad-fly and wouldn’t mind toppling him.

One benefit: Libya would have a chance to be democratic instead of a supporter of terrorism. As AIG has stated many times, a truly democratic country more likely to act responsibly.

If he can end the revolution in days then all is lost, but if it extends for months, you will see massive Arabic support at the popular level (collections, arms, volunteers) but not at governmental level. The more he bombs and destroys the fiercer the revolt will get. The Aljazeera factor is very significant.

I hope your right.

Ghat,

Do you have an opinion on whether the US or some other outside force should topple Gad-fly? Can you answer the question without delving into theories?

Luella, they are trying for one world govt, just like Hitler tried. The other world pwreos Russia and China and Iran will NOT let the Saudis Isreal Brits USA become one world power. The axis pwreos of Iran China and Russia are planning their own world order. Don’t underestimate either Axis or Allies. It’s already on.