I think Mr, Golson, missed the sarcasm of Mr. Shammas article. Mr Shammas didn’t literally meant that Christian men are going or can married two women at the same time, the article spirit and the way of writing it meant to point out the contradiction and ambiguity in the law, beside the title was put to get the readers attention to read the article.
How about Mr. Golson opinion on other more serious points in more than 10 articles NesaSy and All4Syria published and I post some of them on SC.
How about women rights issues? Or allowing for a 13year girls and 15years boys for getting marriage? How about calling minorities with names other than citizens? How about Mr. Golson being able to get another women divorced from her husband?
Didn’t all that get Mr. Golson attention at all???

Even in our law westerners want to clarify it for us and the sad point is that Mr. Goldon discussed the one point that is irrelevant.
I’m disappointed by this superficial take on such an important issue.
That what I meant in some previous comment that if we take our domestic matters as seriously as we discuss our international ones we would be in much better shape.
Good work!

Dear Jad
I think Tyler recognizes how bad the law is. The last paragraph is very
With respect to Mr. Shammas, there are so many real, morally repugnant aspects of the Personal Status draft law that we don’t need to manufacture imaginary ones.

But I agree with you that Mr. Shammas’s article had a hint of sarcasm, which indicate the shock many of us felt when reading this pre-islamic (Jahily) tribal law. As for westerners explaining our laws for us, I beg to differ with you on one issue, women rights is a universal issue.

Dear OTW,
As always, I highly respect what you write and I appreciate your input and I agree with you.
In my comment I didn’t mean in anyway that I don’t want westerners to give us their feed back. We need every positive, serious and helpful opinion the west can give us and add something positive and constructive into our progress toward a better future not only on women rights but on every other field we are behind at.
What I meant in this case was that Mr. Golson took the one and only aspect that makes no point whatsoever and concentrate his article on forgetting the main major points that most of us are unhappy with.
He did as most westerners do best when they discuss our issues, concentrate on the most useless point and be opinionated about, doing that they actually derail the attention from what is important to some minor and not important issues.
Beside, we all know that Polygamy is well established in some Christian communities in the states and in Europe but few articles talks about it.
If people want to write about some serious issue which matters to any citizen of any country in the world they better be sure to discuses it with all it’s pros and cons and not concentrate on one minor meaningless point that doesn’t do any good to anyone.

And that is my take as Norman would say!

There is something about the law draft that reminds me alot of George orwell’s 1984. It’d be a disaster if it was approved.

something else that made me even more frustrated apart from considering women less human existing, and reinforcing division between religions and sects and other crimes against any possible secular future. is the way it was made in the dark stinky rooms, and people are like clueless sheep happily eating and breading.
it’s getting so frustrating.

I think that every thing about how disastrous the law draft is has been said, but little or nothing has been said about what could be done in the reality of a no-civil-society Syria.

Dania,
I have some bad news for you, this ‘brilliant’ proposal will be rubber stamped and approved after removing three maybe four sentences the most from it. They asked the SAME committee to take another ‘look’!!

You can also read why it will be approved in this well written article:

????????? ??????? ??? ??? ????? ??????? ???????
????? ?????

?????? ????: ?? ????? ????????? ?????????? ???????? ??? ??? ??? ????????? ?????????? ?????? ??? ?? ???? ?????? ??????? ??????? ???? ??????? ?????? ????? ???????? ??????? ????? (They wont since they don’t know and they don’t want )? ???? ?? ????? ??? ??? ????? ?????????? ????? ???? ???? ????????? ???????? ???? ????? ????? ?????? ???? ?? ??? ????????!! (When we give this important project to ‘secret’ committee that having nothing in their brains that what we get, Good for us)

http://nesasy.org/content/view/7458/336/

???? ???? ?? ????? ??????: ??????? ???? ????? ?????? ?????????

???? ??????? – ?????
11/ 06/ 2009
???? ?????? ?? ????? ?????? ?????? ??? ???? ???? ????? ???? ?????? ?? ???? ??? ?? ????? ?? ?? ????? ????? ??? ?????? ???????? ?? ??? ??? ????? ????? ??????? ???????? ?????? ??? ???? ????? ??????? ????? ???????? ??? ?????? ??? ???? ????? ??? ???? ?????????? ?? ????? ????? ??????? ????????? ??? ?? ???? ??? ???????? ????????? ??? ????? ?? ????? ????????.
?????? ?????? ???? ???? ??? ?????? ??? ?????? ???? ??????? ?? ?????? ???? ???? ????? ????? ??????? ????????? ???? ??????? ??????? ???? ???? ???? ??????? ????? ??????? ???????? ????????? ?????? ???? ?????? ????? ??????? ?? ????? ??? ??????. ????? ?????? ???? ??????? ????????? ???? ????? “????? ????????? ???? ?????? ?? ???? ????? ?????????” ?????? ??? ???? “??? ????? ??????? ????? ?? ???? ???? ????? ?? ????? ?? ????? ???????? ?? ?????? ????? ??? 200 ????? ?????? ?? ????? ????? ?? ????? ???? ????? (?? ????? ??? ??? ??????? ???????? ????? ????? ???? ????? ?????? ?????????? ??????). ???? ?????? ????? ???? ??? ??????? ???? ???????? ???? ??? ???? ???????.
??? ?? ??? ?????? ???? ????? ????? ?? ?????? ??? ???? ???? ?????:
?? ???? ?????? ????? ??????? ??????? ???????
??? ??????? ???? ??? ???? ?????? ?????? ??? ?????? ???? ????? ???? ???? ????? ?????? ????? ????? ????? ????? ?? ?? ?????? ???????? ???????? ???? ???? ????? ?????? ???? ??????? ???? ??? ??????.
?? ?? ????? ?????? ????? ??? ????????
?????? ?? ??? ??????? ???? ?? ???? ?????? ?????????? ??????? ????? ?? ???? ??? ?? ????? ?????? ?? ?????? ?? ??????? ?????? ?????? ????? ??? ????? ?????? ??????? ????? ??? ????? ??? ???? ????? ??? ?????? ???? ??? ??? ??? ????? ???? ?? 3 ????? ???? ?? ???????? ….??? ????? ???? ????? ???? ????? ????? ??? ?????? ????? ???? ??? ???? ????? ?? ?? ??? ??? ?? ?? ??? ?? ???? ???? ??? ??? ?? ???? ??? ??? ?? ????? ???? ?????? ?? ??? ???? ???? ??? ??? ????? ??? ?? ????? ????? ????? ???????? ?????? ?????? ?? ?? ?? ??? ?? ????? ???? …
?? ???????? ???? ???? ???? ??????? ????
?????? ????? ??? ?????? ???????? ?? ??? ??? ????? ????? ??????? ???????? ??? ?? ????? ??????? ????? ??????? ??? ???? ?? ???? ??? ????? ???????? ???????? ?? ??? ??? ??? ????? ??? ???? ????????? ?? ???? ???? ?? ???? ???? ?? ????????? ?? ????? ??????? ??????? ??? ????? ??????? ??????? ??? ?? ???? ??? ???????? ????????? ??? ????? ?? ????? ????????? ??? ???? ?????? ???? ?????? ????? ??? ?? ??? ??????? ??? ???? ????? ????? ????? ??????? ???? ???? ??? ?? ?????? ????? ??? ?? ????? ?????? ???? ?? ?? ????? ?? ?? ?? ??? ???????? ?…??? ????? ????? ??? ???? ?????? ?? ??? ?????? ?? ?????? ??? ???? ?????? ??????? ????? ??????? ??? ?? ??? ??????? ???? ????? ??? ???? ??? ?? ???? ?????? ??????? ??????? ???????.
????? ??? ??????? ???? ??????
????? ??? ???? ??????? ??????? ???? ???? ???? ??????? ?????? ??????? ?? ????? ????????? ?????? ?????? ?? ????? ??????? ?? ????? ???? ????? ????????? ???? ?????? ??????? ??????? ?? ???? ????? ????????? ???? ?? ???? ??? ??????? ????????? ???? ????? ??????? ????? ?? ???? ?? ????? ?? ????? ?? ????? ?? ?????? ??? ????? ?? ????? ?? ??????? ?? ?????? ??? ??? 200 ????? ????? ?? ????? ????? ?? ????? ???? ?????(?? ????? ??? ??????? ???????? ????? ????? ???? ????? ?????? ?????????? ?????? )? ??? ???? ??????? ??????? ??????? ??? ??? ?????? ??????? ?????? ?? ????? ??????? ????? ?? ???? ????? ??? ?????? ??? ?????? ???????? ???? ???? ??????? ?? ???? ?????? ????? ??? ?? ?????? ??????? ????? ?????? ??? ????? ???? ????? …????? ???? ?????? ?????? ??????.
?? ?? ????? ?????? ???? ????? ???? ??????? ?????? ??? ?????? ?? ?? ???? ???? ????? ???????
?? ??? ???? ????? ???? ????? ?????? ?????? ???? ????? ???? ??????? ???? ????? ????? ??????? ??????? ???? ?? ??????? ?? 2007? ???? ??? ????? ??? ??? ????? ??????? ?? ??????? ????? ?????? ?? ?????? ?????? ?????? ?????? ?? ??? ???? ???? ??????.
?? ???? ?? ?????? ?????? ???? ????? ???? ??? ????????
?? ..? ????? ?? ?????? ?? ???? ?? ????? ?????? ?? ??????? ????? ????? ?????? ??????? ????? ?????? ????? ?????? ???? ?????? ?? ????? ????? ??????? ???????.
???? ??? ?? ??? ?????? ?? ???????
????? ??? ..????? ????? ??? ???????? ??????? ??? ??? ?? ??? ???? ???????? ????? ?????? ?? ??? ??????? ???? ????? ?? ???????????? ?????????? ???? ???? ????? ????? ??? ??? ????? ??????? ??????? ????? ???????.

http://all4syria.info/content/view/9934/96/

Jad,I found this for you,

????? ????? ??????? ??????? .. ?????? ?? ?????????? ???????

???: ?? ??? ??? ????? ????? ????? ??? ??? ???? ?? ???? ?? ?????

??????: ????? ????? ????? ??? ??????? ??????? ?????? ???????

???? ???? ????? ????? ????? ????? ??????? ??????? ????? ?? ?????????? ????????? ??? ????????? ?????? ?? ?????? ?? “????? ???? ??? ??????? ????????”? ??????? ?? “?????? ?? ???????? ???????? ????? ??? ??????? ?????? ?????”.

??? ????????? ??????? ??? ??? ??????? “????? ?????????? ????????” ? ? “????? ???? ??????? ??????? ?? ??? ????? ..” ?????? ??? ???????? “???? ????? ?? ???? ???? ??”.

?? ??? ????????? ???????????(??? ???????) ???? ?? ??????? ?? ?????? ???? ?????? ??????? ??? ???? ??????? ??????? ???? ????? ?? ?????(???? ?? ????) ?? ??????? ??????? ?? ??????? ?????? ?????? ?????? “??????” ???? ??????? ????????? ???????? ???????? ?????? ??? ??????? ???? ??? “?????”? ??????? ???? ???? ?? ??????? ??????? ?????? ??????? ????????? ???????? ? ?????? ?? ????? ?????? ???????.

???????? ?????? ??????? ???? ????? ??????? ????? ????? ??????? ??? ?????????? ??????? ???????.

???? ???? ????

?????? ???? ???? ??? ????? ??????? ????? ????? ???? ???? ?? ???? ???? ??????? ???? ???? ???? ??? 2437 ?????? 7/6/2007 ? ?????? ???? ????? (?????? ?? ??????) ? ? ???? ?????? ?????? ??????? ??????? ?????? 5/4/2009.

???? ?? ??? ????? ???? ???? ??????? ??? ??? ???????? ?? ??? ????????? ??? ?????? ??????? ??????? ??? ?????? ??????? ???? ????? ?? ?????? ??? ?????? ????.

??? ????? ?????? ??????? ?????? ????? ??????? ??????? ?? ???? ??????? ???? ??? ??? ?????????? ???? ????? ????? ?????? ???? ????? ??”??????”? ??????? ?????????? ??????? ??????? ?????? ????? ????? “???? ?????? ???? ????? ?????? ??????? ????? ??????”.

???? ??? ??” ???? ????? ???? ????? ????????? ?????? ??? ??????? ???? ??? ???? ???? ???????”? ???? ??????? ?????? ???? ????? ?????? ?????? ????? “???”.

????? ??? ?? ????? ????? ???? ??? ????????? ?????? ????? ????? ??? ????????? ???????? ???? ?????? ????? ??????? ?? ?????? ??????

?? ???? ????? ?????? ?? ???????? ?.???? ??? “???? ???????? ???????? ??? ????????? ?????? ??????? ?? ??? ????? ??? ???? ????? ????????? ???? ???? ?? ????? ?? ???? ??????? ???????? ???? ????? ?? ???? ???? ????? ?????? ? ????? ??? ????????? ???? ???? ???????? ????????”.

????? ????? “??? ????? ?? ????? ????? ???? ??? ????????? ???? ??? ?????? ??? ??????? ?????? ???? ???????? ????? ???? ??????? ???? ????? ?????? ?????? ??? ??????? ?????? ??? ?? ????? ???????? ??? ???? ???? ????? ??? ?????”.

?????? ?? ??????? “?? ??? ????? ?????? ??? ????? ??????? ?????? ?????? ??? ?? ?? ??? ?? ???? ?? ????? ????”.

????? ?????..

????? ??????? ??????? -??? ?? ???? ?????- ?.????? ????? ????? ???? ?? ???? ???????? ??? ??? ??? ???? ??? ???? ?? ??? ?? ????????? ????? ????? ?????? “?? ??? ?????? ???????? ?? ?????? ???? ???? ???????? ??? ????? ?? ???? ?? ????? ??????? ??????”.

??????” ??? ???? ????? ??? ???? ???? ???? ???? ??? ????? ???????? ??? ?? ?? ????? ?????? ??? ??? ?????? ???????? ???? ???? ????? ???? ??? ??????..!??? ?? ?? ?????”

?????? ???? ?? ??????? “????? ???? ????? ??? ????? ??????? ???????? ?????? ?????????? ???? ??? ?????? ??????? ???????? ??????? ??? ???? ??? ???? ???? ????? ?? ???? ?? ?? ???? ?????? ??? ??????? ???? ???”.

???? ???? ???? ?????? ??? ????????? ??? ????(???? ?????? ???? ???????) ????? ??????? ???? ?????? ???? ?????? ???? ????? ??????? ??? ???? ????? ??????? ?????? ???? ??????.

????? ????? ????? ??? ??? ????? ???? ?????? ????? ????????? ??? ??????? “?? ????” ???? ?????..! ???? ?????? ??????? ??? ???? ???????? ??? ??? ??? ??????? ?? ???? ???? ??????? ??? ??? ????? ?????? ????? ?????? ??? ?????? ????? ??????..

??? ????????

??????? ???? ?? 665 ???? ???? ?????? ?? ?????? ????????? ???????? ?????? ?? ???????? ??????? ??? ??????? ????????? ??????? ???????? ??? “????? ?”?? ?????” ?”?????” ?”????????”..??????.

??? ???? ????? ?.??? ????” ????? ????? ??? ??????? ??? ????? ???? ?????? ?????? ??? ??????? ????? ????? ???? ???? ????? ???? ???????? ????? ????? ????? ?? ?????? ?????? ?????? ?? ????? ??? ???????(?????? ????? ??????? ???????)? ????? ??????? ??????? ?????? ??? ???? ????? ?????? ???? ????? ??? ????? ?????? ????? ??? ??? ?????”.

??????? ??? “?? ????? ??? ????? ???? ???? ???? ???? ???? ???? ?? ????? ????? ?? ??? ?????? ???? ?? ???? ????? ?? ??????? ??? ????? ?????”.

??? ???????? 21 ?22 ?????? ?????? ?????? “??????” ??????? ?????? ??? ?????? ??????? ?????? ?? ?? ??? ????? ?????? ??? ???? ??? ????? ???? “??? ???? ” ??? ?? ????? ?? ” ?? ??? ??? ?????? ?????”? ????? ???? ?????? ?? ?? ????.

???? ???” ??? ?? ????? ???? ???????? ??????? ????? ???????? ???? ?? ???? ???? ?????? ????? ???? ???? ????? ???? ???? ????? ??????”.

??? ???? ??? ?? ????? ??? ?? ?????? “????? ??????? ?????? ???? ???13 ?????? ???? ???15 ????????? ?????? ??? ????? ?????? ???? “?? ??? ????? ??????”..! ????? ???? ?????? ????? ??????? ???? ???? ???????? ??????? ???????? ????? ?? ??????? ??? ???? ??????”.

?????? “??? ??? ???? ?? ???? ????? ???? ???? ??? ????? ???? ?? ???? ??????? ?? ??? ??????? ?? ???? ?? ?????? ????????? ???? ?? ????? ????? ???? ??? ??? ??? ???? ??? ????? ????? ?????? ??? ???? ????? ?????”.

????? ??? ?? “??????? ?? ????? ??? ??? ?????? ????? ?? ???? ????? ???? ??? ?????? ???? ???????? ??????? ?????? ????????? ???????? ?? ??? ??? ???????? ???? ???? ?????? ???? ??????? ???? ??? ??? ????? ??? ???????”.

???? ??? ?? ??????? ??????? ????? ??? ?? ??????? 31 ????? ???????? ??????????? ??????? ?????? ?? ????? ???? ????????? ?? 18/6/2006.

????????? ??????? ?????..

????????? ??????? ???? ????? ?? ????? ???????? ???? ??????? ??????? ????? ????????? ???? ????? ???? ??? ?? ???????? ??????? ???????? “???? ????”? ?????” ??????? ???????? ?? ?????? ????????” ????? ??? ?????? ?? ???????? ???? ????? ??????? ??????? ?? ??????? ???? ??????? ????????? ??????? ???????? ??????? ???????.

????? ???? ??? ?????? ?? ??????? ??? ????????? ??? ??????? ?????? ?????? ??????? ??????? ????? “?? ???? ??????? ?????? ???? ??? ??? 1953 .. ????? ????????? ?? ??? ?????? ??? ??? ????? ????? ??? ??? ????? ???? ??????? ????? ???? ????? ?????????? ???????? ??? ?? ??? ????? ???? ????? ????? ?? ?????? ????”.

???? ???? ?????? ??????? ?????? ????” ????? ?????? ????? ??? ?????? ?????? ??????? ??????(???? ???? ????) ??????? ??????? ??????? ??? ???( ?????? ???????? ??????..) ?????? ???????? ??????? ???????? ??? ?????? ??????? ?????? ?????? ???? ???? ???? ??????? ????????? ??? ???????? ?????? ?????????? ??????? ???? ???? ????? ?????” .

???? ??? ??? ??????? ??????? ???? ????? ????? ??????? ????? “????? ??????? ??????? ??????? ?? ?????? ?? ????? ?????? ?????????? ??? ???? ??????? ?????? ???? ?????? ???? ?????? ??????? ?????????? ???????? ?? ??? ?????? ?? ????? ?????? ?????? ??? ?? ?????? ????????? ???? ?? ??? ????? ???? ?????? ???????? ??? ???? ??????? ?????? ?????? ??????? ??????? ?????????”.

?????? ????? ??? ??? ???? ??? ??????? ???? “??? ????” ?????? ” ??? ???? ?? ?????? ????? ?? ?????? ???? ????? ????? ??? ????? ?????? ?? ??? ???????? ??????? ????? ??? ??? ???????? ??? ???? ????? ??? ????? ?? ????? ?????? ???????? ???????? ???????”.

???? ??? ????? ??????? ????? ???? ???? ?????? ??????? ??????? ???????? ?????? ??? ???? ?????? ??? ?????? ??? ?????? ???????? ?????? ?????? ??????? ????? ???????? ??????? ??? ?? ?????? ?? ?????? ??????? ???? ???? ??? ??? ???? ?????(???????? ??????? ??????? ??????..) ???? ?? ??? ??????? ??????? ???? ???????? ??? ???? ??????.

????? ???? ???????

???? ?????? ??????? ?? ????? ????? ??????? ???? ???” ??? ???? ?? ???? ???? ???????-???? ?????? ???- ?? ??????? ??? ???? ?????? ?????? ?????? ????????? ????? ????????? ??? ???? ?? ?????? ??? ???? ???????? ???? ??? ???? ??????? (30 ??? ?? ???? ????? ????????? ?????????) ???? ?? ????? ????? ?????? ???? ??? ?????? ??? ?????? ?? ???? ????”.

????? ??? ??? ?? “????? ?????? ???? ??? ????? ???????? ??? ??? ??? ????????? ???? ??????? ??? ????? ???????? ??? ?? ???? ??????? ?????? ???? ??? ???? ????????? ??????? ???? ?????? ?? ??? ???? ??????? ???? ????? ?? ??? ??? ?? ?? ???? ????? ??????? ??? ?? ????”.

???????? ??????..

????? ?????(???? ????????? ??? ??? ????) ?????? ?????? * ?????? ??? ???? ????????? ?? ??? “???????? ?? ????? ?????? ??? ????? ????? ????? ??????? ???????”.

??????? ??????? “????? ?????? ??????? ??? ????? ????? ??? ??????? ??? ???? ????? ???????? ???? ??????? ?????? ???? ?? ?????? ?????? ?? ???????.??????? ?? ?????? (25-26-33-35-36-37-44-45) ?? ??????? ??????? ??? ?????? ?? ?????????? ????? ??????? ??????????? ???????? ????????? ???? ????? ?????? ???? ????? ??????? ?? ??????? ??? ??? ?????? ?? ???? ??????? ????????? ?????? ??????? ?? ???????? ????? ??????? ?????? ?????”.

????? ????? ??????? ?? ?????? “?????? ??????? ??????? ?????? ????? ????? ???? ?????? ???????? ????? ????????? ?????????? ????? ????? ?????? ??? ??????? ?????? ??????? ????? ????? ??? ?????? ????????? ??? ????? ???????? ?????? ????? ??????? ?????? ???????? ????? ?? ???? ?????? ?????? ??????? ?? ???? ???????”.

???? ????? –?????????

[email protected]

* ???????? ?? (??????? ??????? ?????? ??? ??????? ???????? ????????? ??????? ??????? ????? ?????? ????????? ?????? ?????? ??????? ???? ??? ????? ??????? ????? ?????? ???????? ??????).

2009-06-10 23:00:40

Thank you Norman! I didn’t read any comment from you about this issue? What do you think?
Since it comes out in the local news sites it will become more of a headache to the government, this is GOOD.

hi Jad,

I do not know what to think , the only thing i know that everybody is happy in the US with our system , OK almost everybody,so something like that might be workable in Syria , civil marriage registered in the religious institutions, Church or Mosque , equal right for men and women in regard to divorce ,with settlement on assets after divorce ,
No polygamy except in very rare cases if the religious institution find it necessary, It is allowed in Islam and that should be respected as it could be needed in cases where the woman can not have children or she is sick . i feel that should be up to the religion,

by the way I do not know why anybody wants to have more than one boss , ((( Two wives )).

I got Married to my wife in city hall and that was 24 years ago and 4 children ,
So personally , civil marriage is OK and it is faster , i see how long people wait to get a chapel for marriage , it does not make scenes.

And that is my take.

Dear Norman if you hear that your state needs help improving their personal status law, don’t hesitate to ask Mr Outri to arrange you a committee bti3jbac, sharwa yalli 3amala, I’m sure the American law makers will be amazed of the result, bid3oulak afterward. 😉

From Mr. Outri committee previous experience I wont be surprised if they come with this: The valid testimony of one white American ‘man’ is equivalent to two African American ‘men’, three Asian ‘men’, four Hispanic ‘men’ and seven middle eastern ‘men’, in case of women you must double the number.

Jad,

Why are they trying to have a new civil law for Marriage , did people complain about the old one , don’t they have anything better to do .

the way Syria that i know , The Christians married the way they want , The Muslims married the way they want and everybody was happy , Leave them alone.

Norman,
I guarantee that you will have the laugh of your life to know that the needs to change the old law were:
1- Give Syrian women more rights (check)
2- Separate religion from state and treat all Syrians as equal (check)
3- Set up the base for a new modern Syrian family (check)
Mission accomplished!

????? ????????? ?? ??? ?????? ??? ??? ????? ????? ??? ??? ????? ???? ??????? ????? ???? ????? ?????????? ???????? ??? ?? ??? ????? ???? ????? ????? ?? ?????? ????”.

???? ???? ?????? ??????? ?????? ????” ????? ?????? ????? ??? ?????? ?????? ??????? ??????(???? ???? ????) ??????? ??????? ??????? ??? ???( ?????? ???????? ??????..) ?????? ???????? ??????? ???????? ??? ?????? ??????? ?????? ?????? ???? ???? ???? ??????? ????????? ??? ???????? ?????? ?????????? ??????? ???? ???? ????? ?????

Jad,

It looks like it was a waste of time , Isn’t it?.

Norman,
No, it was a waste of a country!

Dear Norman

polygamy in Islam has been greatly misinterpreted by Muslims. It was never intended as the rule but as the extreme exception and only to guarantee the rights of orphans if there was fear regarding their rights and well being. This is the interpretation of one scholar who is being attacked by people with inclinations similar those (Fa6a7el) who gave us the new masterpiece law-project. Personally, I will be very happy when (not if) it is disallowed throughout the world but with provisions to grandfather existing polygamous families with the goal of phasing it out completely within a single generation (meaning no new polygamous marriages at all). Polygamy should never be interpreted as means to serve man’s sexual desire for a younger wife (which is almost always the case) or to obtain yet a new servant-wife. It is banned in Tunisia since 1956. It is banned in turkey as well, and no one disputes Turkey’s status as an Islamic Country. In both countries, however, extra-legal second and third marriages do occur in some rural areas, but the state can exact severe punishments on Imams who conduct such marriages. It is the local law enforcement who keep blind eye about the practice.

I am an ardent opponent of polygamy and I do not buy the argument that it is god’s law and that it is a right for Muslim men or for anyone else for that matter. If anyone want to call me murtadd, so be it. To me it is like slavery, Islam reluctantly tolerated it, but the intent of the legislator (God) was clearly its eventual abolition. No one dares now to defend slavery as a right, and no one should be able to defend polygamy as a right as well.

And that is my take and give on this issue.

Dear OTW
(And that is my take “””””and give on this issue”””””) You can’t add a word on Norman trade mark sentence without his permission, I’m watching you!! 🙂

Dear Jad,
Guilty as charged. I get a little careless in the summer, but I am glad I have you to protect me from my carelessness 🙂

Dear Norman
Please accept my sincerest apology. I hope you have not yet called your patent copyright lawyer. I officially withdraw the added word and will cease and desist from any further infringement without due permission 🙂

Jad, Satisfied??? !

What you’re saying OTW is based on the interpretation of the Qur’an legalizing polygamy taking into consideration the chronological revelation of the verse dealing with the subject. I’m sure you’re referring in your last comment to the aftermath of the battle of Uhud when there were many losses of male fighters in the battle resulting in the increase in the number of widows and orphans. So, the verse was revealed and solved a very important social issue in a very compassionate and I may even say efficient way.
The other part of your comment is putting forward the hypothesis that this verse has been outdated due to changing circumstances and that there is no longer the need to deal with such problem. This is where you may run into difficulties with the advocates of the timelessness of the Revealed Law as you correctly pointed out. Believers would argue in a different manner than the way you argued. They will not deny the timelessness of the Law and thus they would avoid the possibility of getting labeled a murtad (or apostate for the English speaker). They would point out however, that the conditions which allow polygamy must be satisfied, and the onus is on the man to prove that he is capable of exercising justice and will actually exercise it when he practices polygamy as is clearly required in the same verse which legalizes polygamy. And in fact, one of the conditions would be for the first wife to give her consent to the husband. In effect this argument limits to almost zero possibility polygamous marriages because of the almost impossible condition. At the same time polygamy is still legal for those cases that may arise such as the post-Uhud social dilemma.

What is the possibility that we may still encounter such social imbalance as in post-Uhud? You just have to look at the last century. We witnessed the two most destructive wars in history. The age of sexual permissiveness in the west ushered as the result of a similar post-Uhud situation. So, you could choose to institute polygamy with responsibilities attached on the parties, or you may have to accept un-instituted polygamy with no responsibilities whatsoever on those who engage in such practice. So make up your mind. Are the Laws timeless?

The other condition which you should consider is the issue of the ability to bear children. Many will now start crying fowl and scream and shout that Islam looks at women as children factories. Some will also say that the inability to bear children could equally be the man’s problem. OK, these are all valid objections. But when you apply reason you will definitely find answers. Islam does encourage procreation and actually it commands it. I do believe that this is a personal choice but if a person wants to have a kid (or kids) and discovers circumstances don’t allow after the marriage. Then what should he do? Some will say what about love? That is a good question but let’s leave it aside. You may also argue that if it is the man’s problem then the woman should also have the same right. I cannot answer that. But medical studies (and Norman may correct me if I’m wrong) have shown that men’s shortcomings in this area are much less frequent and treatment is successful in over 90% of the cases. Biology seems not to favor woman to the same degree (input Norman) in this area. But even so if it is the man’s problem and the woman decides that she wants children the she should also have the right. I believe in this case she would seek divorce and the man should not refuse. I must add here that the verse in question was not revealed to deal with this issue. It was revealed for the previous issue relating to orphans and widows.
And by the way I’m not polygamous, but I think the Laws are timeless.

I think there is huge misunderstanding of why the new law and the need for new law. Who ever suggested the need for new law is a smart guy who exposed the status quo of a country called Syria who lives outside the time. The new law could not change a bit of the spirit of the existing law which is actually established long time ago that Syria is a state compromised of a collection of sects governed by their own religions and its clerks and the Baath party and the dictator could not make a dent in the existing civil law. Secrecies and committees are nothing new, and may be this one is a step ahead of other made laws which usually issued as decrees by the president (dictator). The improvements (if there is any) are lost in the dust thrown around the proposed law by the independent seculars and educated Syrians who usually marginalized and now found opportunity to attack and demand change of this law and other old fashion laws which need to be changed long time ago to improve the lives of the people and bring modern civility to the old fashioned backward existing laws.

This law is the law of the land since Ottoman ruled the country and implemented since the 15th century, it seems to me that when the committee tried to incorporate the different religions in one law they exposed themselves and exposed the ugly face of the old law under what it called SECULAR STATE. The best thing can happen now, is to discard the law and keep the old one and forget about one law for all.

The real thing here is that the State, the regime, the dictator ect.. are not capable of making a positive change in the lives of the people of Syria or even finish a building in the center of the capital. They can show, only right now, that they are busy in the foreign matter, but they can not fool me who know that all other laws issued by them were no even on the level of sophistication of this law.

From here we can see the power of the free election in Lebanon, if the same were to happen in Syria, ( lets say last parliamentary election or last presidential election) and a real new faces with fresh ideas came to power ( not old same old same), we could have seen a modern civil law.

Trustquest,

You seem to forget that Lebanon suffers from the same things Syria does, except they have elections. But it’s always been the same families ruling Lebanon and laws in Lebanon are just as outdated and ancient as Syrian laws, with some Syrian laws even being more progressive than some Lebanese laws.

And what positive changes has the Lebanese government made in the lives of Lebanese? Just as in Syria many buildings there are unfinished. Many roads are dug up for alleged improvement, only to remain dug up indefinitely because somehow the ministry ran out of money.

The situation in Syria is definitely bad, but to suggest that the Lebanese system is any sort of solution is nowhere near accurate.

Norman,
Could you please go check the comments after the article you post here, what is funny&sad is that Syrian don’t even read or know where to read the proposed law and some of them think that it’s just a news to attack the government with no base!
And that is my take! (OTW, I’m still watching you!)

???? ????? ??? ????? ???? ???????: ??? ?????? ??????? ???? ?????!
???? ??????
2009/ 06/ 12
??? ????? ?? ????? ???? ??????? ???? ????? ?? ??????? ???? ???? ????? “?????? ??????” ???? ????? ?????? ????? ??? ?????? ?????? ??????? ??????? ?????? ??????? ???????! ??? ??? ???? “???????”! ???? ???? ??? ?????? ????? ??? ??????? ??? ?? ??????? “????” ????? (30 ???? ?? 665 ????!) ??? ?? ?? ????? ????? ?????? “???” ?? “??”! ??? ?? ??????? ????? ??????? ????? ???? ???? ??????? ?? ?????? ?????? ??????? ??? ??????? ???? ???? ????????? ??? ????? ??????? ??????? ???????? ??? ??????!

????? ????? ???? ??????? ??? ??? ????? ?????? ?????? ?? ???? ?? ????? ??????? ???. ??? ????? ????? ??? ?? ??????? ??? ??????.. ?? ???? ????? ??? ??????.. ?? ?? ??? ??? ?? ????? ?? ???? ??? ??? ????? ?????? ?????? ??? ?????..

????? ????? ??????? ?? ????? ?????? ???? ????? ??? ?? ??? ??? ??? ??????? ??????? ????????? ????????? ???? ?? ????? ?????? ???????? ??? ?????? ?? ???????? ???? ??? “??????? ????????”.

??? ?????? ?????? ????? ?????? ?? ???????? ?? ??? ???????:
– ????? ??????? ??????? ????? ?????.
– ????? ?????????? ??????? ???? ???? ????? ?????.
– ????? ??????? ??????? ????? ??????? ???????? ??? ???? ???????.
– ??? ??????? ??????? ?????????? ????? ????? ??? ??? ???????.
– ??? ?????? “???????” ??? ?????? ?????? ???????.
– ???? ????? ?? ?????? ?? ???? ????? ??????? ??? ?? ???? ????? ?????? ????? ?????? ????? ?????.
– ???? ????? ?? ???????? ????? ?????? ??????? ??? ?????? ??? “??????”!

???????? ??? ??? ??????? ??? ??? ??? ???? ?? ?????? ???? ?? ????? ????? ????????? ????? ????? ????? ???????? ??????? ??? ??? ?????? ???????? ??? ?? ???? ??????? ??????? ??? ?? ???? ??? ?? ????? ?????? ??????? ????????? ?????? ??????? ??????? ????? ??????? ????? ??????.. ???? ???? ???? ??? ????? ??????? ?? ?? ????? (??? ?? ?? ???? ??????) ?????? ??????? ????? ?? ??????? ???????? ??? ?? ?????? ???????? ?????? ?? ?? ???? ???.

??? ??? ??? ??? ?????? ????? ???? ?? ????? ???????? ?????? ??? ??? ???? ????? ??? ????? ?? ??????? ???? ????? ?? ???????.

????????? ??? ????? ???? ??????? ?????? ????? ????????? ?????? ????????? ???? ?? ??????? ?? ???? ??? ??????? ??????? ??????. ???? ???? ??????? ?? ??? ????? ??? ????.

???? ???? ?????? ?????? ???????? ?? “???? ?????”? ???? ??????? ????? ???? ??????? ?? ??? ???????? ?? ?? ??? ??? ??? ?? ???? ??? ???:
1- ??????? ?? ????? ??????? ??????? ?? ????? ??? ???? ???????.
2- ??????? ?? ????? ??????? ??????? ?? ????? ????? ?????? ???? ???? ?????? ??? ???????? ?????? ???? ?? ?? ??????? ?? ???????? ?? ???? ?? ????? ?? ????? ??? ?????? ??? ??????? ?? ?? ???? ?? ??????? ???? ?? ??? ?? ??????? ??? ?????? ??? ?? ??? ??????? ?? ???????? ????????? ????? ???????? ????? ?????.
3- ??????? ?? ????? ??????? ??????? ?? ????? ?????? ??????? ????? ?????? (??? ?????? ?????? ??? ????? ???? ??? ????? ??????? ??? ?? ?? ???? ?????? ????? ?? ?? ????? ??????? ??????? ?????? ??????? ????????)? ???????? ????? ???????? ??????? ???????? ????????? ??????? ?? ????? ??????? ????????? ?????? ????? ????? ????? ?? ??? ?????? ??????? ?????? ?? ?????? ?????? ??????? ?????? ????? ????? ????? ??? ?? ?? ????? ?? ?????? ??? ?? ????? ?????? ???????? ???.
4- ???????? ???? ?? ????? ?????? ?? ??????? ???????? ???????? ???? ???? ??? ??? ???????.

?? ??????? ????? ???? ??????? ??????? ??? ???????? ?? ?? ?? ???????? ??????? ???? ????? ???? ????? ???????? ???? ?????? ???????? ???? ??????? ????? ???? ?? ???????? ?? ??? ????? ????? ?????? ????? ?? ?????? ???????? ????? ????? ????? ???????? ??????? ?????.

???????? ???? ???? ?????
http://www.nesasy.org

Jad, OTW,

I am glad that you are using my ( And that is my take)I am actually honored,

So ahead .

???? ????? ??? ????? ???? ???????: ??? ?????? ??????? ???? ?????!
???? ??????
2009/ 06/ 12
??? ????? ?? ????? ???? ??????? ???? ????? ?? ??????? ???? ???? ????? “?????? ??????” ???? ????? ?????? ????? ??? ?????? ?????? ??????? ??????? ?????? ??????? ???????! ??? ??? ???? “???????”! ???? ???? ??? ?????? ????? ??? ??????? ??? ?? ??????? “????” ????? (30 ???? ?? 665 ????!) ??? ?? ?? ????? ????? ?????? “???” ?? “??”! ??? ?? ??????? ????? ??????? ????? ???? ???? ??????? ?? ?????? ?????? ??????? ??? ??????? ???? ???? ????????? ??? ????? ??????? ??????? ???????? ??? ??????!

????? ????? ???? ??????? ??? ??? ????? ?????? ?????? ?? ???? ?? ????? ??????? ???. ??? ????? ????? ??? ?? ??????? ??? ??????.. ?? ???? ????? ??? ??????.. ?? ?? ??? ??? ?? ????? ?? ???? ??? ??? ????? ?????? ?????? ??? ?????..

????? ????? ??????? ?? ????? ?????? ???? ????? ??? ?? ??? ??? ??? ??????? ??????? ????????? ????????? ???? ?? ????? ?????? ???????? ??? ?????? ?? ???????? ???? ??? “??????? ????????”.

??? ?????? ?????? ????? ?????? ?? ???????? ?? ??? ???????:
– ????? ??????? ??????? ????? ?????.
– ????? ?????????? ??????? ???? ???? ????? ?????.
– ????? ??????? ??????? ????? ??????? ???????? ??? ???? ???????.
– ??? ??????? ??????? ?????????? ????? ????? ??? ??? ???????.
– ??? ?????? “???????” ??? ?????? ?????? ???????.
– ???? ????? ?? ?????? ?? ???? ????? ??????? ??? ?? ???? ????? ?????? ????? ?????? ????? ?????.
– ???? ????? ?? ???????? ????? ?????? ??????? ??? ?????? ??? “??????”!

???????? ??? ??? ??????? ??? ??? ??? ???? ?? ?????? ???? ?? ????? ????? ????????? ????? ????? ????? ???????? ??????? ??? ??? ?????? ???????? ??? ?? ???? ??????? ??????? ??? ?? ???? ??? ?? ????? ?????? ??????? ????????? ?????? ??????? ??????? ????? ??????? ????? ??????.. ???? ???? ???? ??? ????? ??????? ?? ?? ????? (??? ?? ?? ???? ??????) ?????? ??????? ????? ?? ??????? ???????? ??? ?? ?????? ???????? ?????? ?? ?? ???? ???.

??? ??? ??? ??? ?????? ????? ???? ?? ????? ???????? ?????? ??? ??? ???? ????? ??? ????? ?? ??????? ???? ????? ?? ???????.

????????? ??? ????? ???? ??????? ?????? ????? ????????? ?????? ????????? ???? ?? ??????? ?? ???? ??? ??????? ??????? ??????. ???? ???? ??????? ?? ??? ????? ??? ????.

???? ???? ?????? ?????? ???????? ?? “???? ?????”? ???? ??????? ????? ???? ??????? ?? ??? ???????? ?? ?? ??? ??? ??? ?? ???? ??? ???:
1- ??????? ?? ????? ??????? ??????? ?? ????? ??? ???? ???????.
2- ??????? ?? ????? ??????? ??????? ?? ????? ????? ?????? ???? ???? ?????? ??? ???????? ?????? ???? ?? ?? ??????? ?? ???????? ?? ???? ?? ????? ?? ????? ??? ?????? ??? ??????? ?? ?? ???? ?? ??????? ???? ?? ??? ?? ??????? ??? ?????? ??? ?? ??? ??????? ?? ???????? ????????? ????? ???????? ????? ?????.
3- ??????? ?? ????? ??????? ??????? ?? ????? ?????? ??????? ????? ?????? (??? ?????? ?????? ??? ????? ???? ??? ????? ??????? ??? ?? ?? ???? ?????? ????? ?? ?? ????? ??????? ??????? ?????? ??????? ????????)? ???????? ????? ???????? ??????? ???????? ????????? ??????? ?? ????? ??????? ????????? ?????? ????? ????? ????? ?? ??? ?????? ??????? ?????? ?? ?????? ?????? ??????? ?????? ????? ????? ????? ??? ?? ?? ????? ?? ?????? ??? ?? ????? ?????? ???????? ???.
4- ???????? ???? ?? ????? ?????? ?? ??????? ???????? ???????? ???? ???? ??? ??? ???????.

?? ??????? ????? ???? ??????? ??????? ??? ???????? ?? ?? ?? ???????? ??????? ???? ????? ???? ????? ???????? ???? ?????? ???????? ???? ??????? ????? ???? ?? ???????? ?? ??? ????? ????? ?????? ????? ?? ?????? ???????? ????? ????? ????? ???????? ??????? ?????.

http://nesasy.org/content/view/7469/110/

The language of the next one is more powerful:

????? ?????? ???? ???? ?? ???? ???? ????? ????? ?????? ??????? ?? ?????!
???? ??????

http://nesasy.org/content/view/7468/336/

I wonder is OUTRI’S government has any understanding of the crime they just did, or the magnitude of this kind of approach toward the Syrian society as a whole?
Are we going to see any government public announcement or any reaction from the presidency in the aftermath of Syria-news article?
This whole government should be fired immediately, the damage and the unrest they made is irreversible and unforgivable.

??? ????? ??????? ???????: ??? ??? ??? ??? ???? ???? ???? ??????

??? (???? ?????)
12/ 06/ 2009
??? ?? ???? ????? ????? ??????? ??????? ?????? ?????? ?????????? ??????? ???? ?? ????? ?? ?? ?? ????? ????? ??? ??? ??? ??? ????? ???? ?? ????? ??????? ??????? ??????. ???? ?? ????? ????? ???????? ??? ?? ??????? ??????? ??? ??? ?? ?????? ?????? ???? ???? ??????? ??? ??????

??? ???? ???? ????? ?? ???????? ???????? ?????? ???? ??????? ?????? ??????? ??? ???? ???? ????? ?????? ?????? ?????. ??? ????? ????? ??????? ??????? ??? ????? ??????? ??? ???? ????? ??????? ????? ?????? ??? ????? ??? ?????? ???????. ??? ??? ?????? ????????? ??? ???? ??????? ????? ????? ?????? ????? ???? ?? ?????? ?????? ??? ???? ??????? ??? ???? ????? ?????? ?? ???? ??????????? ?????? ??? ????? ???? ?????????? ???? ??? ??????? ???????? ??? ????? ?????? ???? ???? ?????? ?????? ?????? ??? ??? ??? ????? ???? ?? ??????? ??? ???? ????? ??????? ?? ????? ????? ?? ??????? ???????? ???? ????? ?? ?? ??????.

??? ??????? ??? ????? ??? ?? ??? ???? ???? ????? ????? ???? ???? ????? ???? ?? ??????? ? ???? ??? ?????? ????????? ??????? ??????? ???????? ?????? ???????. ????????? ????? ????? ??????? ????? ??????? ?????? ???? ???? ???????? ?????? ???????? ?????? ????? ??????? ??????? ???? ??????? ??????? ????? ????? ?????? ??? ?? ????? ????? ????????? ???? ??????? ??? ?????? ??? ??????? ????????? ??????? ?? ??????? ?????? ????? ??? ??????? ??? ??? ???? ?? ???? ??? ????? ??? ????? ??????? ???? ?? ??????? ?? ??? ???? ????? ????? ???? ?????.

???? ????? ??????? ?????? ????? ?????? ???? ???? ????? ??????? ????? ?? ??????? ????? ?? ???? ???? ??????? ??? ??? 2437 ????? 7/6/2006 ? ??? ???? ?? ?????? ??? ?????? ???????? ??? ??????? ??????? ?? ????? ???? ??? ?????? ??????? ??? ??????? ???? ?? ???????? ???? ???? ?? ????? ???????? ?????????? ???? ?????? ??? ????? ????? ?????? ?????? ??????? ????????? ????? ???????? ???? ???????? ????? ???? ????? ??? ????? ?????? ????????? ???? ????????? ???? ???? ?? ??? ?????? ???? ??? ????? ??? ?????? ??? ?? ??????? ???? ?? ???? ????? ?????? ???? ?????? ?????? ??? ???? ??? ??????? ???? ??????? ???? ?? ???? ??????? ????? ???? ?????? ?????? ?? ??????? ???? ??????? ??? : (???? ??? ???? ???? ???? ????? ????? ??? ??? ???? ???? ????? ?????? ???? ??????? ?? ????? ???? ?. ???? ??? ???????? ??????? ?????? ???? ???? ?????? ??????? ?? ????? ?????). ??? ???? ???? ????? ???? ?????? ?? ??????? ?????? 11/6/2009 ?????? : ” ??? ????? ?????? ??????? ?????? ????? ??????? ??????? ?? ???? ??????? ???? ??? ??? ?????????? ???? ????? ????? ?????? ???? ????? ??”??????”? ??????? ?????????? ??????? ??????? ?????? ????? ????? “???? ?????? ???? ????? ?????? ??????? ????? ??????”.???? ??? ??” ???? ????? ???? ????? ????????? ?????? ??? ??????? ???? ??? ???? ???? ???????”? ???? ??????? ?????? ???? ????? ?????? ?????? ????? “???”.

???? ???? ???? “????? ?????” ??? ????? ?? ???? ” ??? ???? ?? ???? ??????? ???????? ????????? ???????? ???????? ???? ???????? ???? ?????? ??????? ??????? ???????? ???? ????? ???????? ???? ????? ?????? ??? ????? ???????? ????? ?????? ?????? ???????? ??? ??????? ??? ?????? ??? ???? ????? ????????? ?????? ???? ??????? ????? ?????? ????? ??? ?????? ?? ??? ???? ????????? ??? ??????? ???????? ???????? ?? ??? ??????? ?????? ???? ????? ????????? ??? ????? ???????. ???? ?? ??? ?????.

???? ???? ??????? ????? ????? ??????? ???????? ?? ??? ??? ?? ???? ????? ?????? ? ??????? ????? ?????? ??????? ???? ??? ?? ???????. ???? ????? ??????? ???????? ?? ????? ??????? ???? ??? ???????. ??????? ??? ???????? ?????? ?????? ????? ?????? ??? ????? ???? ????????? ????? ???? ?????? ??????? ?? ????? ???????. ??? ?? ???? ??? ??? ??? ?? ????? ???? ??????? ????? ?????? ??????? ???????? ???????? ?? ????? ???? ??? ????? ??????? ???? ??? ???? ? ???? ??? ????? ???? ??? ?????? ????????? ???? ????? ???? ??????? ?????? ?????? ??????? ????? ????? ?????? ????? ???? ?????/ 10/6/ ???? ??????? ??????? ??? ??????? ????? ?? ?????? ????? ??? ????? ?????? 13/6/2009. ??? ??? ????? ???? ?? ????? ???? ????????? ???? ???? ????????? ??????? ????? ???? ?????? ?????? ?? ??????? ???????? ?????? ????? ?????? ????? ?????? ???????? ???????? ??? ???”.

????? ?????? :” ??? ????? ?????? 11/6/2009 ???? ???? ????? ??? ?? ??????? ??? ?????? ?????? ?? ????????? ? ?????? ???? ?????? ?? ??????? ????????? ? ????? ????? ???? ?? ????????? ?????? ???? ?????? ???? ??? ??? ?????? ? ?????? ????? ??? ????? ?????? ?? ???? ???? ?????? ?? ??????? ????? ?????? ???? ????? ???? ?????? ????? ????? ????? ??????? ??????? ?? ???? ??? ??? ????????? ??????????? ???? ?????? ??? ??????? ??????? ?????? ??? ??????? . ??? ???? ????? ??????? ???????? ?? ????? ?????? ?? ???? ????? ???? ????? ??? ????? ???? ???????? ??? ????????? ?? ????? ?????? ?? ???????. ??????? ?? ??????? ?????????? ?????? ??? ????? ??????? ??? ??? ????? ??????”.

??????? ?????? ?????? : ?? ????? ??????? ???? ?? ??????? ???????? ??? ???? ?? ?? ???? ?? ???? ??? ???? ???????? ??????? ??????? ?????? ?????? : ??? ???? ??????? ???????? ??? ??? ??????? ? ?? ????? ??? ?????? ???????? ??????? ???????? ????? ?? ???? ?? ??????? ??????? ?? ?????? ????????? ???? ??? ????? ??????? ? ??? ??????? ???? ??????? ???????? ?

????? ?????? ?????? : “???? ??? ?????? ??? ???? ?????? ?? ??? ?????? ???? ???????? ?????? ?????? ???? ??????? ???? ????? ?????? ???????? ????? ??????? ??????? ??????? ???? ???? ?????? ???? ?? ?????? ?? ??????? ??????? ?? ??? ??????? ????? ??????? ?? ???????? ?????? ????? ?????? ??? ?? ?? ???? ?????? ??????? ?????????? ??? ?? ????? ??? ????? ???? ?????? ????? ????? ????? ????? ????? ???? ??? ???? ???? ?? ???? ????? ??? ???? ??????? ?????? ??????? .

http://all4syria.info/content/view/9978/70/

Majid
I just noticed your response (comment #18). It is rather elegant and thoughtful. And i ask for your patience because I am extremely busy nowadays. I still monitor SC, but my comments have been short and intellectually undemanding. Responding to your comment will require time that I do not have now.

BTW, You are also a big winner in the election saga. You called it way in advance. Congratulations.

Dear JAD and fellow Syria Comment readers,

The purpose of my original post was to correct a widespread misunderstanding that has proliferated in Syria in part due to articles like Mr. Shammas’ being passed on “without comment” by Arab readers, and not to obscure the very real dangers of the Personal Status draft law.

During my time working with Bassam al-Kadi at the Syrian Women Observatory here in Damascus, we have published in English and Arabic as many articles as we can on the draft law and its potentially disastrous implications for Syrian society.

In fact, I translated one of the articles you yourself posted, JAD, under the title ????? ????? ???? ?? ?????? ??????? ?????? ?????? ????? ?? ??? ????? ???? ???????, available at http://nesasy.org/languages/index.php/En/2009/06/12/p247#more247)

I can assure you we are both intimately familiar with the details of the draft law, as well as how it is being received and talked about here on the ground. And I can assure you furthermore that the article in question, in which Michel Shammas falsely claims that the draft law will allow polygamy for Christians, is being taken seriously by a great many people. This false perception is spreading and is causing real problems for opponents of the law like Bassam, who are accused of “stirring up sectarianism.”

But I think it’s best to let Bassam al-Kadi speak for himself. He has written a message, which I have translated as follows (his original message in Arabic follows in a separate post). Bassam writes:

Firstly—I want to thank everyone for their valuable contribution to the discussion of this topic, and to apologize that I can’t participate here directly because of my poor English. However I thank my friend Tyler for his efforts in helping me to follow the discussion taking place here, and for continuing his work for the past six months at Syrian Women Observatory (“Nesa Suria”), especially at it pertains to the Personal Status Draft Law. His postings on this issue have been the result of our shared discussions.

Secondly—Unfortunately, the headline in question, which called Syria the “only country in the world to allow Christians to take a second spouse,” was not sarcastic, but rather was chosen precisely and deliberately with the chief aim of “media sensationalism,” which has led to widespread misunderstanding. This point is doubly confirmed: first, because everyone here in Syria understood it in this manner, and their reactions and positions were based on this understanding. And secondly, because the author of the article himself (Michel Shammas) has confirmed that this was his intent (though not in print), based on Article 639 which says: “Each spouse may demand a divorce on account of the other spouse’s adultery or taking another in marriage.” This article of course cannot be interpreted as permitting Christian men to take second wives—unless we understand it to permit Christian women to take two husbands! The problem here is the blatant aggression of a sectarian law against the views of another sect, which can reinforce sectarian anxieties until they drown out the voice of reason.

As you can see, the problem is that this headline has had numerous negative effects, since few ordinary people have enough time to truly understand what the law says. This is so especially in light of the very poor state of the Internet in Syria, which means this kind of headline spreads very quickly and is understood in the worst possible way.

Thirdly—indeed this is not the core of the problem right now. Rather the real problem is the committee which produced this draft law and the Presidency of the Council of Ministers which accepted the draft law and submitted it for short-term review, while responding that any who might reject the law “have no right to reject it, but only to offer comments”! They are still on track to passing the law after a few superficial amendments.

I believe that the passage of this kind of draft law, even if 80% of it has been amended, will mean a long-term communal disaster for Syria. Unfortunately I can’t express here in this forum precisely the nature of the disaster which I see coming.

Therefore, I would like to seize this rare opportunity and turn to you all in the warm hopes that you do what you can in the way that you see fit to help us in making this draft law an impossibility. Especially since we believe that the effects of its passage ultimately will not be limited just to Syria, but will be felt far and wide in the region.

Thanks to all,
Bassam al-Kadi
Supervisor, Syrian Women Observatory
http://www.nesasy.org (Arabic)
http://english.nesasy.org/ (English)
http://french.nesasy.org/ (Français)
http://deutsch.nesasy.org/ (Deutsch)

Mob: 00963933957011
Email:
– [email protected]
– [email protected]
——————————————————–

Stope Honore Crimes in Syria
http://honorcrimes.nesasy.org/signature/
——————————————————-

Say No to Violence Against Women
http://sayno.nesasy.org
——————————————————

yes to women’s right to grant Syrian nationality to their children
http://nationality.nesasy.org

from Bassam al-Kadi:

????- ???? ?? ???? ?????? ??? ???????? ?????? ?? ???? ??? ???????? ??? ????? ???? ????? ?? ???????? ?????? ?? ?????? ??? ??? ???? ??????????. ?????? ???? ?????? ????? ??? ????? ?? ??????? ??? ??? ?????? ???? ???? ???? ??? ????? ??? ??? ??? ???? ???? “???? ?????”? ????? ??? ???? ????? ????? ????? ??????? ???????. ???????? ???? ??? ?? ????? ?? ??? ??????? ???? ????? ??????? ???????.

?????- ????? ?? ??????? ???? ???? ?? ?? ????? ?? ????? ?????? ?? ?????? ???? ???? ????????? ??????? ?? ??????? ?? ??? ?????. ?? ??? ?????? ????? ?????? ??????? ??? ?? “??????? ?????????” ???? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???? ????. ???? ??? ???? ?????: ???? ??? ?????? ??? ?? ????? ???? ???? ???????? ????? ???? ??? ?????? ??? ??? ?????? ?????? ??? ???? ?????? ???? ?? ??? ???? (??? ?????)? ?????? ??? ?????? 639 ???? ????: “???? ??? ?? ??????? ?? ???? ??????? ???? ??? ????? ?????? ?? ????? ??????”. ????? ?? ???? ????? ??? ?????? ???? ???? ??????? ??????? ?? ???????? ??? ??? ??? ???? ????? ????? ???? ???????? ??????? ?? ?????. ??? ??????? ?? ?????? ?????? ?? ????? ????? ??? ?????? ????? ????? ??? ?????????? ???????? ???? ?? ??? ????? ??????.

???? ??????? ??????? ??? ?? ?? ??? ??????? ??? ????? ????? ?????? ???? ??? ??? ?? ????? ???????? ??? ????? ????? ?????? ????? ???????? ???? ?? ?? ???????? ????? ??? ?? ?????. ??? ???? ??? ??? ??????? ????? ????? ????? ???? ????? ????? ??????.

?????: ???????? ??? ??? ???? ??????? ????? ?? ??????? ???????? ?? ?????? ???? ???? ???????? ?????? ???? ??????? ???? ???? ??? ??????? ??????? ?????? ????????? ???? ??? ????? ?? ???? ??? ?? ???? ?? ????? ???? “?? ??? ?? ????? ?? ??? ????? ?????????”! ?? ????? ?????? ?? ???? ?????? ??? ????? ??????? ????? ????.

?????? ?? ????? ??? ??? ???????? ??? ?? ??????? ??? ??? 80 % ??? ???? ????? ?????? ??? ????? ?????? ??????. ????? ???? ?? ?????? ?? ???? ???? ???? ?? ??? ?? ??????? ???? ?????.

????? ??? ?? ????? ??? ?????? ???????? ?????? ????? ????? ????? ??? ?? ?????? ?? ????????? ??????? ???????? ???? ??????? ????????? ??? ??? ????? ??? ??????? ???? ???????. ???? ???? ????? ?? ???? ?????? ?? ????? ?? ??????? ??? ?????? ?? ????? ????? ?????? ?? ???????.

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Dear JAD and fellow Syria Comment readers,

The purpose of my original post was to correct a widespread misunderstanding that has proliferated in Syria in part due to articles like Mr. Shammas’ being passed on “without comment” by Arab readers, and not to obscure the very real dangers of the Personal Status draft law.

During my time working with Bassam al-Kadi at the Syrian Women Observatory here in Damascus, we have published in English and Arabic as many articles as we can on the draft law and its potentially disastrous implications for Syrian society.

In fact, I translated one of the articles you yourself posted, JAD, under the title ????? ????? ???? ?? ?????? ??????? ?????? ?????? ????? ?? ??? ????? ???? ???????, available at http://nesasy.org/languages/index.php/En/2009/06/12/p247#more247)

I can assure you we are both intimately familiar with the details of the draft law, as well as how it is being received and talked about here on the ground. And I can assure you furthermore that the article in question, in which Michel Shammas falsely claims that the draft law will allow polygamy for Christians, is being taken seriously by a great many people. This false perception is spreading and is causing real problems for opponents of the law like Bassam, who are accused of “stirring up sectarianism.”

But I think it’s best to let Bassam al-Kadi speak for himself. He has written a message, which I have translated as follows (his original message in Arabic follows in a separate post). Bassam writes:

Firstly—I want to thank everyone for their valuable contribution to the discussion of this topic, and to apologize that I can’t participate here directly because of my poor English. However I thank my friend Tyler for his efforts in helping me to follow the discussion taking place here, and for continuing his work for the past six months at Syrian Women Observatory (“Nesa Suria”), especially at it pertains to the Personal Status Draft Law. His postings on this issue have been the result of our shared discussions.

Secondly—Unfortunately, the headline in question, which called Syria the “only country in the world to allow Christians to take a second spouse,” was not sarcastic, but rather was chosen precisely and deliberately with the chief aim of “media sensationalism,” which has led to widespread misunderstanding. This point is doubly confirmed: first, because everyone here in Syria understood it in this manner, and their reactions and positions were based on this understanding. And secondly, because the author of the article himself (Michel Shammas) has confirmed that this was his intent (though not in print), based on Article 639 which says: “Each spouse may demand a divorce on account of the other spouse’s adultery or taking another in marriage.” This article of course cannot be interpreted as permitting Christian men to take second wives—unless we understand it to permit Christian women to take two husbands! The problem here is the blatant aggression of a sectarian law against the views of another sect, which can reinforce sectarian anxieties until they drown out the voice of reason.

As you can see, the problem is that this headline has had numerous negative effects, since few ordinary people have enough time to truly understand what the law says. This is so especially in light of the very poor state of the Internet in Syria, which means this kind of headline spreads very quickly and is understood in the worst possible way.

Thirdly—indeed this is not the core of the problem right now. Rather the real problem is the committee which produced this draft law and the Presidency of the Council of Ministers which accepted the draft law and submitted it for short-term review, while responding that any who might reject the law “have no right to reject it, but only to offer comments”! They are still on track to passing the law after a few superficial amendments.

I believe that the passage of this kind of draft law, even if 80% of it has been amended, will mean a long-term communal disaster for Syria. Unfortunately I can’t express here in this forum precisely the nature of the disaster which I see coming.

Therefore, I would like to seize this rare opportunity and turn to you all in the warm hopes that you do what you can in the way that you see fit to help us in making this draft law an impossibility. Especially since we believe that the effects of its passage ultimately will not be limited just to Syria, but will be felt far and wide in the region.

Thanks to all,
Bassam al-Kadi
Supervisor, Syrian Women Observatory

????- ???? ?? ???? ?????? ??? ???????? ?????? ?? ???? ??? ???????? ??? ????? ???? ????? ?? ???????? ?????? ?? ?????? ??? ??? ???? ??????????. ?????? ???? ?????? ????? ??? ????? ?? ??????? ??? ??? ?????? ???? ???? ???? ??? ????? ??? ??? ??? ???? ???? “???? ?????”? ????? ??? ???? ????? ????? ????? ??????? ???????. ???????? ???? ??? ?? ????? ?? ??? ??????? ???? ????? ??????? ???????.

?????- ????? ?? ??????? ???? ???? ?? ?? ????? ?? ????? ?????? ?? ?????? ???? ???? ????????? ??????? ?? ??????? ?? ??? ?????. ?? ??? ?????? ????? ?????? ??????? ??? ?? “??????? ?????????” ???? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???? ????. ???? ??? ???? ?????: ???? ??? ?????? ??? ?? ????? ???? ???? ???????? ????? ???? ??? ?????? ??? ??? ?????? ?????? ??? ???? ?????? ???? ?? ??? ???? (??? ?????)? ?????? ??? ?????? 639 ???? ????: “???? ??? ?? ??????? ?? ???? ??????? ???? ??? ????? ?????? ?? ????? ??????”. ????? ?? ???? ????? ??? ?????? ???? ???? ??????? ??????? ?? ???????? ??? ??? ??? ???? ????? ????? ???? ???????? ??????? ?? ?????. ??? ??????? ?? ?????? ?????? ?? ????? ????? ??? ?????? ????? ????? ??? ?????????? ???????? ???? ?? ??? ????? ??????.

???? ??????? ??????? ??? ?? ?? ??? ??????? ??? ????? ????? ?????? ???? ??? ??? ?? ????? ???????? ??? ????? ????? ?????? ????? ???????? ???? ?? ?? ???????? ????? ??? ?? ?????. ??? ???? ??? ??? ??????? ????? ????? ????? ???? ????? ????? ??????.

?????: ???????? ??? ??? ???? ??????? ????? ?? ??????? ???????? ?? ?????? ???? ???? ???????? ?????? ???? ??????? ???? ???? ??? ??????? ??????? ?????? ????????? ???? ??? ????? ?? ???? ??? ?? ???? ?? ????? ???? “?? ??? ?? ????? ?? ??? ????? ?????????”! ?? ????? ?????? ?? ???? ?????? ??? ????? ??????? ????? ????.

?????? ?? ????? ??? ??? ???????? ??? ?? ??????? ??? ??? 80 % ??? ???? ????? ?????? ??? ????? ?????? ??????. ????? ???? ?? ?????? ?? ???? ???? ???? ?? ??? ?? ??????? ???? ?????.

????? ??? ?? ????? ??? ?????? ???????? ?????? ????? ????? ????? ??? ?? ?????? ?? ????????? ??????? ???????? ???? ??????? ????????? ??? ??? ????? ??? ??????? ???? ???????. ???? ???? ????? ?? ???? ?????? ?? ????? ?? ??????? ??? ?????? ?? ????? ????? ?????? ?? ???????.

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Dear Tyler

First I would like to thank you and Mr. Kadi for your tireless campaign.

I am always concerned about misrepresentation and exaggerated claims. While i do not want to get into the impacts of such claims on the nature of discourse, which can be catastrophic, i want to touch on such claims as both strategic and tactical blunders. To begin with, a misrepresented fact, once refuted, will be used in forceful manners to discredit both the intention and voracity of advocacy groups with respect to any other argument they may make. I have witnessed well meaning activists, everywhere, fall into this trap and end up jeopardizing the voracity of their arguments. Advocacy is a precise work, its success lies more in the accuracy of its anecdotal as well as documented evidence not in the sensationalism of the argument. We face real wolves out there, and we should be careful shouting wolves.

That said, I would urge all sides not to start side battles and be distracted from the real goal, which as expressed in your note, to make passing this law mission impossible.

Thank you.

Dear Tyler,
Thank you very much for the explanations.
I appreciate all the effort you are contributing for our Syrian society especially toward our Syrian women rights and progress by working with Mr. Quadi.
Frankly, I’m impressed that you are working in a country like Syria under all our uniquely famous restrictions and rules that can only be found there, it must be challenging.
I sincerely wish you and Mr Quadi all the best to succeed in your difficult mission.
Regards.

From here we can see the power of the free election in Lebanon, if the same were to happen in Syria, ( lets say last parliamentary election or last presidential election) and a real new faces with fresh ideas came to power ( not old same old same), we could have seen a modern civil law.

Hmmmmm. In Lebanon the opposition seemed to get more votes than the winning side did. And the same old faces with their old ideas seem to be still around the table.

Surely a system (including in elections) based on religious groups’ power quotas (which are locked to a to situation that was the reality decades ago) is not the best solution as Lebanon’s history has showed. Well anyway better solution than a direct dictatorship.

Maybe the solution would regarding civil laws in religiously fragmented (multicultural) countries would be a system where the state has general and modern civil laws but where religious people of each group could also turn to their own religious court system. Like Sharia and Beth Din courts in UK.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/6190080.stm

I would like to post a general comment on polygamy and the timelessness of Islamic law.
If you believe in the omnipotence of God, and believe that He is all-knowing, then you can conclude that He has always had all knowledge of everything for all time.
If you are a Muslim, then you believe that the last Prophet was Mohammed, and that the last holy book was the Qur’an.
If an Islamic law in the Qur’an is not written with a statute of limitation on time, then it can only be concluded that this law was meant to be taken indefinately. This is because there has been no more recent message than the Qur’an, and God knew at that time as He does now that no more recent message has yet been given.
There is also the widely (if not universally) excepted Muslim tradition that what is allowed or accepted by or for the Prophet (7alal Mohammed) is not something that is subject to change throughout the ages. Being that the Qur’an was accepted absolutely by the Prophet in its entirety, it can only be said that all Islamic laws therein are also not subject to change over time.

Regarding polygamy, it is a choice that, like any other choice, must be justified. Without justification, it will be a cause of problems. Following the Islamic law with respect to polygamy can make easier the lives of many, as it is also accepted by Muslims that the religion is to make things easier, not more difficult.

Thank you.