Professor Josh,

It looks like you and most of your pro-terrorist participants here have been making some pretty poor assessments regarding the Israeli bombing of the Syrian “WDM” facility.

I suggest that you and your flock not only continue reading the western and hebrew media, but also start to believe it too.

The Baathists and their Jihadist friends can’t be trusted with the truth. They can only be trusted to spread terror.

Joshua said:

September 12th, 2007, 3:03 am

Nukes, chemical weapons, N.Korean/Iranian connections… it’s almost too much to be true.

Either Syria is playing with hellfire, or else someone is planning to attack Syria and is building a case thru the media…

Both options do not bode well for the Syrian people.

“Before the Israelis issued the order to strike, the commandos had secretly seized samples of nuclear material and taken them back into Israel for examination by scientists, the sources say.”

Right under the Syrian’s noses. Amazing.

Indeed, this does not bode well. However before everyone starts jumping to conclusions how accurate is this story and can it be verified? Can nuclear material be traced, like the british police traced the isotopes in the killing of that Russian dissident? Does anyone here with any knowledge elaborate? If the link can be proved, with much more accuracy and honesty than the Iraq WMD, then the regime might be in big trouble.

But lets wait for those Israeli scientists and their tests, I bet you they wont give us tampered results or phony findings? Will they now?

Akbar you are a moron! Pure and simple! Who are you labelling pro terrorist participants here? Why dont you go on a pro Jihadist website and label them terrorist instead or you feel much safer here slinging mud because you know its not true?

كبير خبراء الطاقة الذرية:لا يوجد دليل على تعاون كوري نووي مع سورية الاخبار السياسية

قال جوزيف تسيرتسيونه كبير خبراء الطاقة الذرية والباحث في المركز الأمريكي للعلوم انه لا يوجد أي دليل على أن كوريا الديمقراطية أرسلت شحنات أو معدات من الأسلحة النووية إلى سورية”.

وقالت التقارير الأمريكية أن الخرق الإسرائيلي للأجواء السورية في أوائل الشهر الجاري جاء بعد معلومات استخبارية عن تعاون نووي بين سورية وكوريا الشمالية وأن الغارة الإسرائيلية استهدفت منشأة نووية محتملة. ونفت كل من دمشق وبيونغ يانغ هذه التقارير.

ونقلت صحيفة الستاندارد “النمساوية” اليوم عن خبير الطاقة الذرية قوله إنه “لا يوجد تعاون نووي بين سورية وكوريا الديمقراطية “مؤكدا أن “ذلك اعتقاد خاطىء”.

كما استبعد تسيرتسيونه “تطوير أي برنامج نووي في سورية “مشيرا إلى “وجود تعاون مستمر بين سورية والوكالة الدولية للطاقة الذرية في مجال الأبحاث النووية السلمية المخصصة لأغراض طبية وعلمية في سورية”.

وكانت سورية طالبت بإلزام إسرائيل الانضمام إلى معاهدة منع انتشار الأسلحة النووية مشيرة إلى “حق الشعوب في امتلاك التكنولوجيا النووية السلمية” وذلك بعد أيام من تقارير أمريكية نفتها دمشق عن تعاون نووي بين سورية كوريا الشمالية.

وقال المدير العام لهيئة الطاقة الذرية في سورية إبراهيم عثمان في كلمة أمام المؤتمر العام للوكالة الدولية للطاقة الذرية إن سورية “حريصة على جعل منطقة الشرق الأوسط خالية من الأسلحة النووية”, محذرا من خطورة الترسانة النووية الإسرائيلية على الأمن والسلام في المنطقة.

وأعلنت سورية الخرق الجوي الإسرائيلي وتصدي المضادات الأرضية السورية له وباتت الرواية الأكثر دقة للحادثة، وهي المتداولة على مستوى الأمم المتحدة في وقت تحدثت إسرائيل عن ضرب منشآت ومبان نووية وغيرها أو شحنة كانت في طريقها إلى حزب الله وصفها مسؤولون سوريون بالأكاذيب ومحاولات للتغطية على الخرق .

And while the Israeli scientists were pouring over the samples and delivering their report to the Whitehouse the Syrians and their North Korean accomplices, who’d just been robbed, sat around waiting to be bombed.

Just read Andrew Tablers analysis on the issue, interesting reading here is a link for those interested:

http://www.andrewtabler.com/2007/09/israeli-raid-on-syria-fuels-speculation.html

Syria does not have the technology or economy to develop nuclear weapons.

Neither did Cuba in 1962.

Aooooouuuuu! Another howler. Meant to embarrass Nancy Pelosi.

Please, doesn’t _anyone_ remember the absolutely howling dissembling stories the Jerusalem Post and the Times published about Saddam in January 2003?

http://www.nst.com.my/Sunday/Columns/20070923072945/Article/index_html

——————————————————————————–

COMMENT: No evidence Syria has nuke weapons programme
By Mark Mazetti and David E. Sanger

23 September, 2007

AMERICAN concerns about ties between Syria and North Korea have long focused on a partnership involving missiles and missile technology. But, even hawks within the Bush administration have expressed doubts that the Syrians have the money or technical depth to build a serious nuclear programme like the one in Iran. But the Sept 6 Israeli air strike inside Syria has reignited debate over whether the Syrians are trying to overcome past obstacles by starting their own small nuclear programme, or by trying to buy nuclear components from an outside supplier. It is a particularly difficult question for American spy agencies, which are still smarting from huge prewar misjudgments about the status of Iraq’s weapons programmes.

American officials are now sorting through what they say are Israel’s private claims that what their jets struck was tied to nuclear weapons development, not merely to missile production. So far, American officials have been extremely cautious about endorsing the Israeli conclusion.

Syria’s efforts to bolster its missile arsenal have been a source of worry for Israel for years, especially given Syria’s track record of arming Hizbollah fighters when they clash with Israeli troops. Last year, Hizbollah, the militant Shia group, fired hundreds of missiles at targets inside Israel from Lebanon, surprising Israeli officials with the sophistication of its arsenal.

And North Korean engineers are long believed to have helped Syria develop a sophisticated class of Scud missiles that have a longer range and are more accurate than earlier versions.

According to GlobalSecurity.org, a defence research organisation, North Korea has helped Syria develop the Scud-D missile, with a range of about 700km.

Whether Syria is actively pursuing a nuclear programme has been the subject of fierce debate in Washington for several years. The dispute was at the centre of the fight in 2005 over the nomination of John R. Bolton as ambassador to the United Nations.

At the time, several intelligence officials said they had clashed in 2002 and 2003 with Bolton, then an under secretary of state, about the extent of Syria’s unconventional weapons programmes. According to the officials, Bolton wanted to include information in a public speech about a Syrian nuclear programme that could not be corroborated by intelligence agencies. In recent interviews, Bolton has suggested that the Israeli strike may have partly vindicated his view.

Yet that is hard to assess, since whatever information a few senior officials in Washington and Jerusalem possess has been so restricted that two senior Asian diplomats, representing close American allies who are frequently updated on North Korea, said late this week that they had received no useful information from their American counterparts.

On Thursday, President George W. Bush declined three times to shed any light on the Israeli strike, although he did repeat a warning to North Korea.

It is unclear to what extent the secrecy about the Israeli strike has been motivated by American doubts about the intelligence or by an effort to protect sources and classified information. But American officials are now looking at the possibility that the Syrians saw an opportunity to buy some of the basic components of a nuclear programme on the cheap, perhaps because North Korea is trying to get elements of its nuclear programme out of the country to meet deadlines in a precarious denuclearisation agreement with Washington.

American officials are also studying at least two technology trade agreements between Syria and North Korea that were signed over the summer, trying to determine whether the arrangements may be designed for nascent nuclear co-operation between the two countries.

“One has to balance the scepticism that the Syrians can build an indigenous nuclear programme with the very sobering assessment that North Korea is the world’s No 1 proliferator and a country willing to sell whatever it possesses,” said a former senior Bush administration official who once had full access to intelligence about both countries, speaking on the condition of anonymity because he was discussing intelligence assessments.

Though it has long sold its missile technology – to Syria, Iran, Pakistan and other customers – North Korea has never been known to export nuclear technology or material.

Last Oct 9, hours after the North tested its first nuclear device, Bush went in front of cameras in the White House to issue the North a specific warning that “the transfer of nuclear weapons or material by North Korea to states or non-state entities would be considered a grave threat to the United States, and we would hold North Korea fully accountable of the consequences of such action”.

Syria does have one very small research reactor, which is Chinese-built. But it was described in a 2004 Swedish Defence Research Agency report as “the smallest on the world market and incapable of military applications.”

John Pike of GlobalSecurity.org said that, given its neighbourhood, Syria might be interested in a nuclear deterrent, but that he was highly sceptical Damascus could, at this point, have developed anything that would pose a significant risk to Israel.

“Any country in the region that is not at least learning what it would take to develop a nuclear programme is asleep at the switch. But the proposition that there is anything sufficiently mature to warrant bombing is difficult to believe.” – NYT

——————————————————————————–
© Copyright 2007 The New Straits Times Press (M) Berhad. All rights reserved.

“Or could the material have been destined for Iran as John Bolton, the former US ambassador to the United Nations, has suggested? ”

!!!! So instead of having the shipment go straight to Iran through the Indian Ocean or by air through Asia, you have it go all around Africa under the nose of the most heavily dense American military presence, then take it to Iran from Syria, through were? the secret tunnel under Iraq that links Syria to Iran!!!
I might believe that Bolton is too blind in hatred to check his words, what I find it hard to believe is THREE London Post writers who didn’t take two minutes to look at the World-Map before saying such ridiculous statement.

And we thought the Iraqi WMD was ridiculous enough for people to believe. Now the Syria WMD case is been made as solid as daylight in people’s mind!! The western naivety never seizes to amaze me, or should I say Western hatred? no one can be that naive really.

Chaps

Sometimes it is useful to use the standard method of evaluating intelligence to make sense of these newspaper reports

You have to look at the releiability of the source and independent confirmation.

The source immediately produces problems

The Times / Sunday Times is a Murdoch newspaper out of the same stable at the well known impartial reporting of Fox News (some people refer to it as Faux News) Robert Fisk resigned from the Times after the Vincennes incident when his reports were sat on.

Sunday Times produced the Debat article two weeks ago, before Mr Debat was revealed to be a fraud.

The story bears remarkable similarities to Freddy Forsyths “Fist of God”

As a source the Sunday Times must be classified on this occasion as somewhere about the level of B or C with A being the Gold Standard

Independent corroboration becomes extremely difficult

The presence of John Bolton with a history, of banging the drum for an attack on Iran and demanding intelligence that supports a particular plan of action is not a good sign.

Politicals operating outside the Standard Intelligence Agency chain of command is a badsign.

Ehud Barak is on record as not being interested in pandering to the wishes of a lame duck president with a year to run and wants to succeed Olmert.

Steve Clemons reported recently that David Wurmser had been advocating a plan to use the Israelis to create an incident that provoked a retaliation from Iran that would constitute a causus belli

The campaign of villification against Mahommed el Baradei who disbelieves the reports (It is his job to get it right) by Dr Rice the Secretary of State is an indicator that we are seeing a rerun of curveball and the aluminium tubes fantasy.

The story has too much innuendo about nuclear materiel. It is not at all clear what on earth this is.

Finally given all the reports of US special forces incursions into Syria over the last four years it seems unusual to locate anything that people want to keep secure in the east of the country. Locating something three days march from the Iraqi frontier would be folly.

On this basis, particularly the al baradei aspect this report must be classified D

So this takes us back to where we were a couple of weeks ago. Something got bombed. They let a NYT reporter visit the town soon afterwards so there wasn’t a radioactive leak.

Strange, Very strange.

Kamal above said exactly what I am thinking. This is heartstopping for those of us with family of military age in Syria.

The Syrian people are at risk of being brutally sacrificed by ruthless pinheaded wankers obsessed with showing they are “tougher” than who? And for what gain?

But the award for the biggest wank of the week has to go to the Israelists for that classic disinformation piece about supermen in the Syrian desert. It’s no secret that they desperately in need of heroic tales to spin to their own fed-up and resentful soldiery and anxious US backers.

Two weeks passed,since Israel commited this hostile evil attack,if there is nuclear material,the samples analysis results will be known by now,the news will be very public .I just do not believe the story,as mentioned above.
I still believe, the plains were over Iran,initialy they flew over Jordan,then Iraq,on there way back they flew over Syria,they were immidiately discovered by syrian radar,they were fired upon.
If we are to believe the story,as mentioned above we have to have more facts, up till now it is not more than gossip.

Alex;
when Saddam launched missiles against Israel, US was attacking Iraq,that is why he could not launch more than 39 missiles,Syria can use much smaller missiles and cause great damage to Israel, any war that can erupt,will cause great damage to Israel, if Bush attack Iran the whole middle east will explode,Israel will not come out as winner, Israel must expect one million israeli to be dead, only crasy man will start such war,—-

Majed, Israel is a crazy man. The place was founded and expanded on the basis of revisionism, fantasies, impetuous acts, senseless destruction, violence and threats, lies, spectacular contempt for the rights of others and religious extremism – all fuelled by a ruthless and disproportionate sense of entitlement accompanied by a sound track of boasting and whining.

And these are the ones who not only are seemingly approved to have nuclear weapons but also allowed to decide that others (inspired by this to do the same) should not?

Fast-forward to 25 years from now and I wonder how this is going to look. Very strange I suspect.

Joshua

Do you suspect it might have been a heavy water production plant that got hit?

That would explain why it is situated on a river and would explain the reference to taking samples.

The topic is ambiguous enough for nobody to be very willing to talk about it.

The only mild hint of proper journalistic skepticism is the “” around “nuclear”. Otherwise, another typical piece of anti-Syria, anti-Iran, pro-Israel agitprop. Just what you expect from the Murdoch Times.

Frank al Irlandi, as you can see, more and more puzzle pieces are been leaked every few days and I’m sure these leaks will continue gradually.

Eventually, we’ll have a pretty good picture, even if not necessarily full, of what happened.

If these future leaks will be accompanied by before/after satellite photos, the Syrians will have to come up with some new explanations.

Israeli Guy

I still share Murphy’s scepticism as to the releiability of the source and the independent corroboration.

Colin Powell got snowjobbed with Photographs of “Mobile Biological Warfare Labs”.

Lets wait and see what the IAEA have to say. They have the trained people who know the questions to ask and the signs to look for.

Frank, if the story will turn to be true, the IAEA will also have some explaining to do and a lot of it.

And if it turns out to be false, the Times, WP, Telegraph, etc will have a lot of explaining to do.

Trouble is, it’s almost impossible to prove a negative in such cases – haven’t we seen this before circa 2002-3? Plus, because all the Murdoch rags and their ilk are depending on the usual ‘unnamed sources in the IDF”, there will be nobody to hold accountable for what seems like a repeat run of the mobile chemical labs spin.

A couple of things to note. First, the highly flattering portrayal of Barak seems to indicate that the reporter’s source may come fr. Barak himself or one of his flunkies.

Second, did you note how many sources this reporter quotes & fr. what far flung geographical locales? Either he’s the best sourced journalist in the world, has innumerable operatives providing him info around the world, or he’s just makin’ it up as he goes along.

Third, if this story is to be believed Israeli commandos not only monitored the plant over a long period but physically entered the facility to steal samples (unless they had help “from the inside”).

I’m just plain skeptical…

Personally, I think Israeli ‘commandos’ are still smarting from having their once sterling reputation bruised by their ‘audacious raid’ on Baalbeck, which netted a grocer by the name of Hassan Dib Nasrallah. Perhaps they are hoping that these tall tales will help evoke associations with their glory days back in the Entebbe era?

No chance.

This is just so much Israeli masturbation with America supplying the lubrication. It’s a full-blown neocon circle jerk with all the usual suspects.

Plain and simply, this is zionist story telling, trying to re-create the myth of Israeli military superiority after their humiliating defeat by Hizballah last year destroyed it, permanently.

It is propaganda that also serves a larger purpose. There is some neocon and zionist plan afoot. They are trying to hatch something big, and only time will tell what turd will come out.

You can tell when the zionists are getting nervous because they start believing their own propaganda against all sense of logic and reality, evidenced for example by the first commenter’s screeching.

zionism = terrorism

********
“And if it turns out to be false, the Times, WP, Telegraph, etc will have a lot of explaining to do.”
********

No doubt. I agree.

But as I said from day one of the ‘flyover’, I believe the Israeli media when it implies that it was a nuclear related target.

They don’t lie or mislead the Israeli public and they don’t swallow government PR stunts or spins that easily.

Our media is very suspicious and usually it “makes a living” from sucking the government’s blood on anything (regardless of which party is in power).

But we’ll wait for more leaks, I guess.

Israel’s Right of Self-Defense (AntiWar.Com)

Here we go again!

http://www.antiwar.com/prather/?articleid=11655

“I believe the Israeli media when it implies that it was a nuclear related target.”

Well, if you are going to believe something just because it was ‘implied’ in the “Israeli media” (no evidence given, none apparently needed) then nothing anyone here can say can convince you otherwise. I remind you again that this is the same ‘media’ that was almost 100% behind Israel’s disastrous war on Lebanon just over a year ago.

********
“I remind you again that this is the same ‘media’ that was almost 100% behind Israel’s disastrous war on Lebanon just over a year ago.”
********

Murphy, I don’t know how familiar you are with Israeli media, but I am a regular viewer of channel 10.

During the Lebanon war, this channel was blasted by public opinion on internet forums, talkbacks, etc – for not being “patriotic” and “supportive” enough.

During the war it was the main delivery boy of ‘bad news’.

It’s not the leading channel in terms of rating, but I found it to be the most credible one and I used to watch it during the war.

Since I’m interested in credible information and not in some patriotic pep talk, I really learned to admire this channel, for resisting the public pressure on the expense of its rating.

So branding this channel as ‘media’, which may imply that it’s one of those state ran TV channels in China, is really not the case.

It has a fantastic defense analyst, Alon Ben David and I can’t remember a time when I caught him with anything but great reporting, analysis and some good scoops.

I think you shot the wrong target here.

But it’s not only channel 10, the other channels, the news sites, etc – are pointing in the same direction.

Anyway, I’m sure sooner or later you’ll find this information credible after it will be verified by reporters or media outlets that you trust.

“So branding this channel as ‘media’, which may imply that it’s one of those state ran TV channels in China, is really not the case.”

Actually, it was you who used the term ‘media’ not me. It was also you who generalised to say that you implicitly trust “Israeli media” – you did not specify one outlet. Anyway, I don’t see your problem with the term, nor do I see how its use implies the Chinese version of “Pravda”. What other term is one supposed to use?

“I think you shot the wrong target here.”

Interesting metaphor. But, if this channel is so reliable and so skeptical, what have they to say about the exact nature of the ‘nuclear target’? What are their sources? Why are they only ‘implying’ (your word) things and not saying them straight out?

“Anyway, I’m sure sooner or later you’ll find this information credible after it will be verified by reporters or media outlets that you trust.”

I think this sentence sums up the difference to our approach. Sure, I would be more skeptical of Middle East coverage in a blatantly pro-Israel rag like the Murdoch Times. But it’s not so much the media outlet that counts, it’s the story itself. If this article had named sources and concrete facts verified by independent observers, then I would regard it as being much more credible, the biases of the Times notwithstanding. But when it has the obvious flaws outlined by myself and others above, and when it is part of a string of – similarly vague and unsourced – articles clearly designed to paint Iran and Syria as war-mongering nuke-acquiring rogue states, I have every right to be extremely skeptical. I will remain so until I see solid evidence for this story, none of which has been forthcoming so far.

********
“Actually, it was you who used the term ‘media’ not me.”

“…Anyway, I don’t see your problem with the term, nor do I see how its use implies the Chinese version of “Pravda”. What other term is one supposed to use?”
********

Right, but I didn’t use quotes: I said media not ‘media’.

When you use quotes, it may look like as if it’s not real and credible media, but something more absurd or unreliable.

*******
“what have they to say about the exact nature of the ‘nuclear target’? What are their sources? Why are they only ‘implying’ (your word) things and not saying them straight out?”
*******

Great question.

In Israel, when a media outlet wants to report a story, which may include some sensitive national security related information – it has to be reviewed by the censorship before airing or printing.

The censorship can also direct the media not to cover a certain story with national security implications (very rare).

However, the censorship can’t prevent a reporter from quoting a foreign media source – ever, under any circumstances.

So the Israeli media, who desperately wants to bypass the censorship’s order, found a good way to do it.
It’s like an unwritten agreement between the media and the audience.

If credible information about a censored subject is being published abroad, the reporter brings the story and says something like: “According to (source name)…” and then tells the story.

If you remember, at first, the foreign media published articles that included various speculations about what was hit (if at all).

The Israeli press, who had the right info right from the start (but couldn’t publish it), didn’t bother to cover it seriously, since it knew that these are baseless speculations and didn’t want to mislead the public.

When they could finally find foreign sources with the right story (NK nuclear related), they gave it main headlines and long air time.

So that’s how they imply or hint and now you can understand why they can’t provide details of their own.

That’s how the system works in Israel for decades, so the Israeli public learned to understand the game and its meanings.

As I said, the media has no interest to mislead the viewers and this unwritten agreement, works just fine for the benefit of both reporters an the Israeli public.

The whole Times story sounds suspicious. I’m not sure if there is any truth in it. Indeed, I’m starting to wonder if there was an Israeli raid at all.

Bibbi Netanyatu’s people are underminining Olmert by allowing things to leak out further.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/906334.html

What is going to stun us?

Is all this for Israeli internal consumption, or is it part of a neocon “we were right all along” scam designed to undermine one of the brakes on them launching the first holocaust of the 21st century?

Colin Powell got snowjobbed with Photographs of “Mobile Biological Warfare Labs”.

When Saddam Hussein was gassing Kurds, no one was snowjobbed. When Kuwait was invaded, no one was snowjobbed. When Israel and Saudi Arabia were taking Scud missiles, again, no one was snowjobbed. When the Iraqi people were filling mass graves (about 300,000): no snowjob. And when the UN gave Saddam Hussein and the Baathists 12 years and 17 UNSC resolutions to comply with inspection, that was no snowjob as well

Colin Powell and George Tenet did what was in the best interest of the United States.

But the job is not yet complete.

Listening to the BBC news there is absolutely nothing about all this.

This is curious.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/default.stm

Normally if there were anything in this BBC would have picked up something, and started low level rumbling, so whatever is in the pipeline doesnt come as a terrible shock.

Anybody see anything in the Frecnh or German press? Both lookquiet to me. Welt is talking about ecology and Mode reports an explosion in Jerusalem.

Nichts Neues im Westen as Erich Maria Remarque says.

“When they could finally find foreign sources with the right story (NK nuclear related), they gave it main headlines and long air time.”

Your argument is starting to sound a little circular.

First your praised this Channel 10, saying it was credible and that you implicitly believe the unproven “NK nukes” story for no other reason than that they covered the story. Yet now you tell us that they were relying on foreign sources – presumably the same Murdoch press whose rags have been full of vague, “sources say….” stories demonising Iran and Syria for months, if not years now. It really doesn’t sound like the fact that this story was aired on the supposedly reliable channel 10 is either here or there, since they do not – and cannot, due to Israel’s censorship of the media – have any independent sources to quote.

So, this adds nothing at all to the credibility – or lack of same – of the story, and my point still stands. If and when I see this tale corroborated by reliable, named sources, I may start to take it seriously. Until then, however, I will continue to treat it with all the respect I treated the Niger yellowcake fabrications.

Kamal –

Nukes, chemical weapons, N.Korean/Iranian connections… it’s almost too much to be true.

Yes, if you listen to Professor Josh, Alex and the rest of the chorus.

Wake up and smell the kawa.

Bush is a very forgiving man. Despite trading nukes, he still continues his negotiating with North Korea, and has even invited Syria to the next pseudo-peace conference, just to show there are no hard feelings. What a guy!

OK it is just Ehud Barak conducting a campaign. We can all come out from behind the sofa.

Barak: Israel must operate as though war is around the corner
Israel must act as though the next war is right around the corner, Defense Minister Ehud Barak said on Sunday at the state’s official commemoration of soldiers killed in the Yom Kippur War.

The defense minister also said that “on matters pertaining to our national security, the strength of Israel must be alert and fit at all times. We must always cultivate and enhance the decisive and quality advantage of this strength, along with the warrior spirit and the tools of war.”

Er Blessed are the peacemakers.

Frank:

there is almost none reporting on this issue in the German press, which in ways is puzzling, as there are traditionally journalists/academics with links to high-level sources/contacts in both Israel and Syria.

The Israeli side is supposedly silent on this issue, as mentioned everywhere else — however, reporting on the Syrian side was/is more or less like ‘business as usual’, which would be very strange if indeed a nuclear weapons “entity” has just been bombed/infiltrated etc.

And of course if it all slithers out like a nine day wonder next week it will upstage the President of Iran’s visit to the UN in New York.

http://www2.irna.com/en/news/view/line-24/0709231504123355.htm

Nothing in the Italian or French press…for Anglo-Saxon consumption only.

Uzi Mahnaimi, Tel Aviv, Sarah Baxter, Washington, and Michael Sheridan…

They sound like the infamous NYT Judith Miller…

Frank al Irlandi said:

Listening to the BBC news there is absolutely nothing about all this.

Yes, and the BBC has absolutely nothing about Qassams falling inside Israel or terror cells discovered before they reach their intended targets.

Try some websites that aren’t exclusively Arabist.

I am still not able to comprehend how the israeli conados were able to land troops deep inside Syrian lands and extract them that easily….

“Try some websites that aren’t exclusively Arabist.”

Fine. Please link to all the well-known international news outlets that are covering this story. Even the Observer, which has been vying with the Times for who can print the largest number of war-against-Iran articles, is silent.

“I am still not able to comprehend how the israeli conados were able to land troops deep inside Syrian lands and extract them that easily….”

Israeli commandos, you see, are not like regular folk. They are gifted with superhuman nuclear and Hassan Dib Nasrallah detection skills.

This is a Rambo tale. The Israelis are expert fabulators.

I would like to know how “bad” was it for Syria to have those nuclear … things.

If the story was true then isn’t it worth noting that Prime minister Olmert still managed to say (after the operation): I respect Syria, I respect President Assad …

And then President Peres switched from “we are far from talking peace with Syria” to “we are now ready to start peace talks with Syria” .. also after the operation.

Would discovering that Syria had nuclear ambitions make Mr. Peres more positive about negotiations? would it make Mr. Olmert more respectful of Syria and its young president?

And then the earlier Dramatic Times story which told us that this was such a top secret that only three members of the Cabinet were informed … but then Bibi came out saying that he was part of the team.

Israeliguy, if there is any truth to this story … it is surely mixed with a substantial amount of fabricated parts.

excellent point Alex…

Alex, let me be honest with you.
I’m afraid I’m not a frequent reader of non Israeli press, so it’s harder for me to assess what’s right and what’s wrong.

However, as someone who has a lot of Israeli news consuming experience (I’m an addict, just as you) – I learned to know who to trust more, who less and who not at all.

If I’m not mistaking, on the first or second day that I found this blog, I told Joshua, after he brought a quote from Debka, that he’ll better ignore this “source”.

You have no idea how many times I caught them with what I can only describe as – inventing news.
So many of their “news items” turned out to be a joke.

But the mainstream Israeli media is different, so I have no doubt about the validity of the reports about the actual bombing and that it had a NK nuclear link (whatever it means).

I see that there are a lot of very skeptical people here and I don’t blame them – truly.
Up until a few years ago, I couldn’t believe anything that was published on ANY Arab media channel, even if it was the wheather.

Every individual will choose what to believe and what not to believe and there’s really no point in trying “convincing” the other party. 🙂

Uzi Mahnaimi is an Israeli reporter who has been constantly attacked by that country’s far right establishment. He has been pushing the Israel-will-attack-Iran story for years. He also pushed the story of Israel working on an ethnic bomb, a far fetched tale that earned him a lot of enemies on Israel’s right.

Most commentators here do not seem to believe large parts of this Syrian story. This is understandable. Even if the reporter were to attach satellite imagery of the attack, most would likely question its authenticity.

We will never know the truth behind of what exactly took place. There is little doubt however that this is some sort of a turning point in the Israel-Syria chess game.

Those of us looking for a clear and indisputable smoking gun are likely to be dissappointed.

But I have a lot of respect for some of the “Israeli media”. You don’t have to defend it in general.

I spoke with some in the Israeli media after they interviewed your generals and I made my own conclusions… nothing “good” or “bad”.

I just want you to keep in mind one thing: When the country’s national security is at stake, the media plays along.

If Channel 10 was “the delivery boy of bad news” during the war, it does not change the above fact. You see, when your leaders take you on what seems to be a successful mission (war, limited military mission, or even a media campaign targeted at your enemy) you would be unpatriotic to spoil things. I don’t think you will find many responsible journalists would not play along even if they knew some spicy stories… the country will hate them if they spoiled the effort in order to be the first to publish that exclusive story.

But when the mission is obviously a mistake or a failure, like your war on Lebanon or like the war in Iraq, the media at some point (when there is no doubt anymore) switches to criticizing the mission because they are convinced it is not in the country’s best interests to stick to that mission… when it looks like the only thing to protect by not criticizing is the politicians’ reputation, not the country’s national security.

So: Your media is better than our media : ) … but that still does not mean their publication of this story is proof that the story and its fantastic details are all true.

I suggested earlier that I think that it is possible that something was bombed, Syria was informed of the reason Israel had to do this, and that’s it. The nuclear part was added by those who found the story useful for keeping Syria busy before the Lebanese presidential elections this month.

This “raid” means different things to different people .. whenever you examine a complicated story, this is often the case.

an Australian blogger’s views of this story

Israeli Guy– Glad to see that you admit Debka is ahead of the curve on occasion. That shows open-mindedness. And you are right to be sceptical of their news as well. The key to gauging the weather is to note what is not happening between states that normally should happen, i.e. when the dog is (not) barking in the night. When usual patterns go awry, then Debka is worth consulting. If the reading on their sundial aligns with the shadows around it, then they likely have information worth heeding.

Speaking of what did not occur, recall that most of the states did not provide their usual reactions to the Sept. 6th incident for days (contrast with the near-immediate statements following the Lebanese assassination). It’s as if they were waiting for something else to occur. What was it?

Why is Syria still not allowing access to the presumed site of the strike? If the story about nuclear material being destroyed is a fabrication, the most direct course to prove the Anglo-Saxon press liars would be to allow international teams to access, assess and take measurements.

Cathy

Syria’s version of the story was that nothing was bombed. Israeli jets simply unloaded their fuel tanks and bombs on top of nothing.

Apparently some military target was bombed. Maybe a research facility. Syria is always protective of its military bases … they won’t take journalists to take a close look at those areas.

********
“Why is Syria still not allowing access to the presumed site of the strike? If the story about nuclear material being destroyed is a fabrication, the most direct course to prove the Anglo-Saxon press liars would be to allow international teams to access, assess and take measurements.”
********

Cathy, I can only guess.

Maybe we’re in a middle of an int’l chess game where one party waits for the other’s mistake.

Just an example (that I’m totally inventing): let’s say Syria follows your advice and takes well known and credible reporters to…. the wrong place – and shows them that “nothing happened”.

They report what they saw or in fact, didn’t see.
A day later satellite photos or even much stronger and more convincing smoking gun shows up.

Can you imagine what will happen?

But again, this is just an example that I invented to demonstrate only one option.
I really don’t have any idea.

The news this morning say that Ehud Barak himself flew the mission. Well, the plot thickens. This is like one of the latest George Clooney or James Bond movies; it goes like this. The US sent a team to Syria to spot and laser beam the Korean Syrian facility where the N Koreans are hiding their weapons while at the same time working with Iranians to develop chemical weapons, and the Israeli commando a week before walked in there, speaking Korean and goose stepping to steal the equipement, having had plastic surgery to slant their eyes and reduce their noses. Then Ehud Barak flies to the rescue of the Israeli Air Force after its ego was badly bruided in Lebanon and destroys the site leading to Syrian-Korean anger and the killing of Iranian experts. In response Syria is sending migrating birds with metal attached to their wingtips to simulate a flight of aircraft while at the same time asking the school children to fly kites to confuse the IAF in its scramble to respond to the Syrian birds. In this way, the operation has sent a message to the Syrians that WMD are a no no, to Iran that we can go in and out and bomb the heck out of you, to the Russians that your technology is worthless, and to the Israeli generals that we are back in business, and to the US not to worry we can be your strong man in the region. Now where in this scenario is the beautiful woman that Ehud rescues on his way home while blasting her captors to bits.

Oh, Akbar Palace, spewer of obvious propaganda and delusional zionist rantings, you’re such a woefully tiresome hack.

Observer, that was funny : )

A day later satellite photos or even much stronger and more convincing smoking gun shows up.

Can you imagine what will happen?

Absolutely nothing that isn’t going to happen anyway. The Israelis and Americans will do whatever they want regardless of whether or not they have good cause.

This story stinks like 2-week old fish–from what i’ve heard the ‘Israeli intelligence’ has been held by Steve Hadley, neocon flunky, who hasn’t allowed US intelligence to vet it. I’ll believe in the ‘nuclear materials’ only after Mohamed Elbaradei inspects them and makes a report, and i’m not holding my breath for that.

Also, if the Syrians were really interested in nukes, notwithstanding the lack of a really plausible motive (I think Bashar is much more interested in self-preservation than getting into a nuclear exchange with Israel), why would they be dealing with the North Koreans, who are babes in the nuclear woods, when they could presumably get much more expertise from A.Q. Khan?

News of the World confirms the Times story.

If I’m not mistaking, on the first or second day that I found this blog, I told Joshua, after he brought a quote from Debka, that he’ll better ignore this “source”.

Israeliguy,

Exactly. When this story broke the Peace Professor quoted Debka and said the story “stinks”.

Not that we’re getting specific information; it seems to be leaking out in drips and drabs in order to prolong the effect.

Meanwhile the forum chorus is forced to rely on foreign news sources because they can’t trust their own country’s media.

So when a “peace” professor exclaims:

Syria does not have the technology or economy to develop nuclear weapons., one must wonder if the University of Oklahoma is getting their money’s worth.

Thanks, Alex, that Australian blogger says it better than everyone here combined (including all the professional media and “experts” quoted ad nauseum).

Give him a full run, Dr Landis.

http://lataan.blogspot.com/2007/09/israel-cranks-up-rhetoric-for-final.html

Nur – News of the World is part of Murdoch’s news empire just like the Sunday Times so they frequently share stories.

I am beginning to wonder is this is a psyop run by the Syrians to make the Israelis look stupid. Build a structure in a remote part of Syria, bring in a few North Koreans to look at it, order up a few container loads of NK cement, put about a few rumours and then sit back and wait for the Israelis to come calling. Maybe this explains why the Syrians are in no hurry to show the world’s press what the target was just yet. If the Israelis missed as the Syrians have claimed, it means that the Israelis might be back and this time they can’t claim they weren’t warned if the Syrians manage to shoot something down.

More on that Australian blogger. It seems he is an aeronautical engineer turned historian now with the American Studies department of the University of South Australia. And he’s 59.

Maybe he actually knows how to think about this ?

Dear Blowback…I was making an attempt at humor, because a typical headline for NOTW is “The Loch Ness Monster Lives!”

Israeliguy,

I want my medal .. I read your 7 pages and wrote three or four pages of comments. At the Golan Heights Forum.

Alex, you deserve more than a medal and it’s on the way.

Thanks 😉

Syria does not have the technology or economy to develop nuclear weapons., one must wonder if the University of Oklahoma is getting their money’s worth.

Akbar would the University of Oklahoma get more their money’s worth if some professor would say “Syria has the technology or economy to develop nuclear weapons” even he would not believe that. Well there are several countries which have universities and professors who do what they are commanded. Lucky that the University of Oklahoma and professor Landis are not part of your dream society – a Stalinist dictatorship (led by Zionists naturally).

You Zionists are astonishing with your ever increasing tendency to control and limit the freedom of western academic speech and research. One of the lowest points is when University of St. Thomas cancelled an appearance by Bishop Desmond Tutu because of unfair charges of “anti-semitism”. In the lack of believable counterarguments your group is not any more allowing discussion and research. Soon you probably will be burning books, rewriting history and reducing pictures from unwanted characters. Just like in …. guess where Akbar.

What is danger to Israel if Ahmadinejad makes a speech and answers questions at Columbia University? Certainly it is healthy for the Americans to hear his views of the situation, pro Israeli views have certainly enough airtime. Do you Akbar remember when you said in the past that a “story” has to be balanced and have the opinions of all sides.

Dozens of Syrian engineers killed in a train crash in N. Korea in 2004…

Dozens of Syrian and Iranian engineers killed in an accident in a Syrian-Iranian chemical development joint venture, where they were trying to stew some mustard…

Dozens of N. Korean engineers were killed in the Israeli commandos sweeping of the nuclear facility in Syria…

….

Those Axis of Evil / Rogue States are so stupid they can’t develop WMD without hurting themselves, maybe it would have been much more feasible for the mentally superior Israelis to let them go ahead with their evil plans without interference, so that if the pattern persisted for two more years, all the evil engineers would have been exterminated and no need to worry about a thing then..

Observer, I believe that your comment on the undercover American team and the laser beam used to guide the Israeli strike is inspired by the novel ‘mission compromised’, isn’t it

Akbar would the University of Oklahoma get more their money’s worth if some professor would say “Syria has the technology or economy to develop nuclear weapons” even he would not believe that.

Considering what is coming out in American universities all over the US, it seems as though the prerequist for tenure is an anti-Israel slant, where Israel (not terrorism and their state sponsors) is the greatest threat to peace in the region.

Well there are several countries which have universities and professors who do what they are commanded.

Not here in the free United States. As evidenced, we let every kook his day in the sun. That is unless he/she is found to be untruthful or in error.

Lucky that the University of Oklahoma and professor Landis are not part of your dream society – a Stalinist dictatorship (led by Zionists naturally).

Yes, the only “free dictatorship” in the region. Name one Arab country that is freer.

You Zionists are astonishing with your ever increasing tendency to control and limit the freedom of western academic speech and research.

Zionists don’t limit freedom. Terrorists, Jihadists, and Syrian Baathists do, as evidence by their media.

One of the lowest points is when University of St. Thomas cancelled an appearance by Bishop Desmond Tutu because of unfair charges of “anti-semitism”.

Must be the long reach of the evil Zionists. (LOL) Everything is.

In the lack of believable counterarguments your group is not any more allowing discussion and research. Soon you probably will be burning books, rewriting history and reducing pictures from unwanted characters.

I’m not aware of Jews burning books, rewriting history. “Reducing pictures from unwanted characters; what does that mean? I think the madrassa you’re enrolled in should be commended.

What is danger to Israel if Ahmadinejad makes a speech and answers questions at Columbia University?

Israel, near as I tell, hasn’t objected. Only Americans are objecting. And I can understand this since the Iranian president funds jihadist to kill Americans in Iraq and has threatened Israel (an American ally).

BTW – Here’s proof of how free the US and her universities are (even though American’s would strongly disagree):

http://hotair.com/archives/2007/09/22/video-of-course-wed-invite-hitler-to-speak-says-columbia-dean/

inly it is healthy for the Americans to hear his views of the situation, pro Israeli views have certainly enough airtime.

Americans do not think it is healthy to hear an anti-semite. You may think so, Americans, unfortunately, do not concur with you.

Akbar remember when you said in the past that a “story” has to be balanced and have the opinions of all sides.

I never said there was a need to hear any story from an anti-semitic president from a theocracy that held American embassy workers hostage. And I still hold this opinion.

SimoHurtta,

One day, you’ll get off your anti-Israel kick and help your Arab brethren to enter the 21st century. This is a WIN/WIN for everyone.

I would like to commend Mr. Landis on his blog. This thread has been excellent. Better than Forsythe or Le Carre.

I would like to commend Mr. Landis on his blog.

Asher,

Just think, without Debka and Ha’aretz, there might not even be anything to talk discuss.

Meanwhile, another interesting news clip has emerged:

Vice President Dick Cheney had at one point considered [emphasis mine] asking Israel to launch limited missile strikes at an Iranian nuclear site to provoke a retaliation, Newsweek magazine reported on Sunday.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070923/pl_nm/usa_iran_cheney_dc_1;_ylt=AiM9SLgAQHJLPxfI5.r_MbwE1vAI

If Syria has nuclear material in violation of IAEA wouldn’t the US go to the security counsel and call for sanction?.

The oporation seems to be good for Israel and Syria , Israel felt better that it still has the edge and the abelity to move and attack It gave it’s army a moral bost , and Syria ( ASAD ) proved to the hardliners that want war with Israel that it will not be easy and that Syria should be carefull ,
I do not think that anything was destroyed but the oporation proved the need for peace and that is why Syria is wellcomed to the peace conference.

What do you all think?.

Rice Hopes Syria Will Attend Bush Mideast Peace Conference
Sunday, September 23, 2007

E-MAIL STORY PRINTER FRIENDLY VERSION
UNITED NATIONS — Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice expressed hope Sunday that key Arab nations, including Syria, will attend a Mideast peace conference this fall hosted by President Bush.

Rice said invitations haven’t been issued yet but “we would hope that the invitations would include the members of the Arab follow-up committee … charged by the Arab League with following up with the international community on an Arab Peace Initiative” to end the Palestinian-Israeli conflict.

The committee members are Algeria, Bahrain, Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon, Morocco, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Syria, Tunisia and Yemen. Only two, Egypt and Jordan, have peace deals with Israel and some, notably Syria and Saudi Arabia, remain technically at war with the Jewish state.

Rice told a news conference after a meeting of the Quartet of key international players promoting Mideast peace — the U.S., U.N., European Union and Russia — that there is an opportunity to move toward settlement of the Palestinian-Israeli conflict that “we should not miss.”

“I think that there is a sense of momentum in support of the Palestinians and the Israelis in their efforts to end the conflict,” she said.

Rice said that since it had been several years since the Israelis and Palestinians expressed interest in discussing the core issues at the root of the conflict, “it is very important that the regional players of the international community mobilize to support them.”

That’s why the United States is holding the conference this fall, she said, and why it hopes “that the members of the follow-up committee would hopefully be there.”

Rice stressed that “the road ahead is one that is very difficult.” But she add: “There is a lot of commitment and hopefully this time we’ll succeed.”

A senior U.N. official said that members of the Quartet as well as the Israelis and Palestinians will also be invited to the U.S. meeting.

Many Arab states have said they see no use for Bush’s conference unless it has clear goals and a realistic chance of meeting them. The U.S. official said Rice believed she could allay those fears in her talks with the Quartet and the Arab League members on Sunday.

Before the Quartet session, Rice held separate meetings with EU envoy Tony Blair, the former British foreign minister, and the foreign ministers from Kuwait and Saudi Arabia. Asked after his meeting with Rice whether Saudi Arabia would attend the conference, the Saudi, Prince Saud al-Faisal, was noncommittal.

The Palestinians want the conference to produce an outline for a peace deal; the Israelis want more vague declarations.

Rice was in the Middle East last week and plans to return to the region soon to continue the planning for the meeting.

Rice’s visit last week coincided with Israel’s decision to declare the Gaza Strip, which the radical Hamas movement seized in June, as “hostile territory.” That designation dealt a potential blow to efforts to bolster moderate Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas, who now runs only the West Bank.

Meanwhile, Israel on Sunday approved the release of 90 Palestinian prisoners in a goodwill gesture to Abbas. Palestinian officials reacted with disappointment, calling for larger steps at a time when the power struggle with Hamas and peace process are at critical points.

The U.N. meeting will set the stage for separate talks Monday involving Bush, Abbas and Blair

It is time for Syria to go on the offence and defend itself before they ignite a civil war.

رداً على دور نظام دمشق المخابراتي في الاغتيالات وتفجير الأوضاع في لبنان وفلسطين والعراق

ضوء أخضر عربي للبدء في تفجير الأوضاع داخل سورية

لندن – كتب حميد غريافي:
بعد سلسلة طويلة من الاتصالات واللقاءات جرت خلال الاشهر الاربعة الماضية بين قياديين من الصف الثاني في بعض احزاب الرابع عشر من اذار وممثلين غير مدنيين عن بعض اطياف المعارضة السورية في اوروبا من جهة وبين اوساط امنية رفيعة المستوى في ثلاث دول عربية, بات الطريق مفتوحاً على ما يبدو ل¯ »الانتقال الى المرحلة العملية داخل سورية« التي تحدث عنها نائب الرئيس السوري السابق عبدالحليم خدام في البيان الذي تلاه الاسبوع الماضي في ختام مؤتمر »جبهة الخلاص« السورية في برلين.
وكشف ديبلوماسي عربي النقاب امس ل¯ »السياسة« عن ان اكثر من ستة اجتماعات عقدت في العواصم العربية الثلاث بدأت في مطلع يونيو الفائت وكان اخرها اجتماع عقد في الثاني من هذا الشهر, حضرها عن جانب قوى 14 آذار اللبنانية قادة عسكريون »ميليشياويون« تابعون لاربعة احزاب وتيارات على الاقل, وعن جانب المعارضة السورية ضباط سابقون في الجيش يرأسهم ضابط امني سوري سابق كبير, فيما حضرتها من تلك الدول الثلاث شخصيات امنية وعسكرية »لها امتدادات استخبارية داخل سورية« وقد توصلت هذه الاطراف الى »وضع ستراتيجية للبدء بعمليات عسكرية ضد رموز النظام في دمشق وقادته الامنيين وكبار قياداته العسكرية التابعين للحزب الحاكم والملطخة ايديهم بدماء السوريين واللبنانيين والعراقيين حسب الديبلوماسي العربي, وقد يكون مؤتمر جبهة الخلاص المعارض الأخير في المانيا بمنزلة انطلاقة لهذه الستراتيجية التي ستوضع فوراً موضع التنفيذ على الارض.
ونقل الديبلوماسي العربي ل¯ »السياسة« نقلاً عن مصدر رفيع المستوى في قيادة 14 آذار اللبنانية قوله »ان نقل المعركة من شوارع لبنان والعراق الى دمشق والمدن السورية الرئيسية والمناطق المشحونة بالكراهية لنظام بشار الاسد مثل المناطق الشرقية والشرقية – الشمالية من البلاد ذات الكثافة السكانية الكردية, ومدن وقرى في الجنوب ذات غالبية درزية, وفي حمص وحماة واللاذقية وطرطوس ان نقل المعركة اتخذ شكله النهائي بعدما وافقت المعارضة السورية اولاً على مباشرة مرحلة المقاومة المسلحة الداخلية, وبعد الحصول اخيرا بعد تردد استمر اكثر من سنتين, على الضوء الاخضر من عدد من الدول العربية التي باتت ترى في النظام السوري خطراً داهماً على انظمتها بعدما استسلم كلياً للنظام الايراني في طهران وحول نفسه حصان طروادة لمطامعه في العالم العربي التي تظهر جلياً في كل من العراق ولبنان وفلسطين«.
وذكر قيادي 14 آذار ان الاحزاب اللبنانية المعارضة لسورية والتي اكتوت بنيران حملات اغتيال قادتها ومؤيديها »استقدمت خلال الاربعين يوماً الماضية بعدما تأكد لها نجاح المفاوضات مع المعارضة السورية والدول العربية المعنية, عناصرها العسكرية المجربة المقيمة في اوروبا واستراليا وكندا والبرازيل والولايات المتحدة لتضمها الى مجموعات قتالية جديدة شكلتها اخيرا, بهدف ادخالها الاراضي السورية من مختلف حدودها مع الدول العربية ولبنان لتشكيلها خلايا امنية مدربة على التفجيرات والاغتيالات ومهاجمة المواقع الحكومية والامنية, جنباً الى جنب مع جماعات عسكرية وامنية سورية تابعة للمعارضة ابعدت عن مواقعها ومراكزها ومناصبها في الجيش والاستخبارات والامن القومي خلال السنوات العشر الاخيرة«.
ونسب الديبلوماسي العربي الى القيادي اللبناني الذي يزور أبوظبي منذ يونيو الماضي قوله ان المفاوضات التي جرت بين الاطراف المعارضة للنظام السوري من لبنانية وسورية توصلت الى وضع »جدول دقيق لمرحلة تنفيذ الستراتيجية الهادفة الى اطاحة نظام بشار الاسد« اهم بنوده!
– »تعاون امني بين اجهزة الدول العربية الثلاث وحلفائها داخل سورية مع خلايا المعارضة السورية وعناصر الاحزاب اللبنانية خصوصا في ما يتعلق بعمليات التسليح وتبادل المعلومات والمراقبات وتعقب المسؤولين والشخصيات الحزبية اصحاب القرارات الارهابية المتخذة لنشر الفوضى في لبنان والعراق وفلسطين وبعض الدول العربية الاخرى المعادية لسورية«.
– »تمويل المعركة الداخلية بواسطة افراد متمولين عرب«.
– »مسألة ادخال الاسلحة والمتفجرات الى سورية من مختلف حدودها ليست بمشكلة اذ ان كل الحدود التي يهرب منها النظام في دمشق اسلحته وارهابييه الى الخارج مفتوحة امام المعارضة بالاتجاه المعاكس اي باتجاه الاراضي السورية اضافة الى ان الاسلحة متوافرة على نطاق واسع للمعارضة السورية الداخلية حتى من قلب ألوية في الجيش غير موالية لحزب البعث الحاكم غير ان استخبارات وعملاء تلك الدول الثلاث المحليين يعملون بشكل حميم مع المجموعات اللبنانية والسورية المرسلة الى الداخل«.
– »بعد بدء العمليات المسلحة داخل دمشق والمدن السورية الاخرى تتكفل الدول العربية الثلاث بوضع كل وسائل اعلامها المقروءة والمرئية والمسموعة لدعم المعارضتين السورية واللبنانية«.
– »ترك تحديد موعد مباشرة العمليات الى قيادات المعارضة اللبنانية والسورية بعدما تكون باتت داخليا (في سورية) على اهبة الاستعداد«.
ونقل الديبلوماسي العربي عن احد قادة المعارضة السورية في دبي قوله ان »ممثلي المعارضتين اللبنانية والسورية داخل الاجتماعات مع مسؤولي الدول الثلاث الامنيين, رفضوا رفضا قاطعا مشاركة جماعات رفعت الاسد عم الرئيس السوري المعارض له والمقيم في اوروبا في الانتفاضة المقبلة وذلك باصرار من بعض قيادات المعارضة السورية في اوروبا وقوى 14 اذار اللبنانية.
وأماط القيادي اللبناني للديبلوماسي العربي اللثام ايضاً عن ان »اجهزة امنية لبنانية موالية لنظام ثورة الأرز ومعادية بشدة لنظام بشار الأسد, ستلعب دوراً مهماً في تفجير الاوضاع الامنية داخل سورية رداً على عمليات الاغتيال والتفجير والتخريب ضد قادة 14 اذار وضد الجيش اللبناني (مخيم نهر البارد), اذ استقدمت اكثر من 150 ضابطاً وعنصراً متقاعداً او مبعداً عن الجيش والاجهزة الامنية اللبنانية خلال عهد الوصاية السورية كانوا يشكلون عصب المقاومة اللبنانية المتواضعة ضد مواقع الاستخبارات السورية في بيروت وطرابلس وصيدا والبقاع, وخصوصاً بلدة شتورا التي كانت – قبل عنجر – مركز قيادة تلك الاستخبارات (غازي كنعان) وذلك لتشكيل خلايا مشتركة مع عناصر الاحزاب اللبنانية الميليشياوية والمعارضة السورية«.
وقال القيادي اللبناني ان »عدداً من ضباط الجيش اللبناني واستخباراته السابقين الذين كانوا فروا او هاجروا الى الخارج, عادوا اخيراً الى بيروت ليتسلموا مواقعهم الجديدة تمهيداً لبدء ستراتيجية لحملة العسكرية داخل سورية«.

طباعة | إغلاق

SimoHurtta,

One day, you’ll get off your anti-Israel kick and help your Arab brethren to enter the 21st century. This is a WIN/WIN for everyone.

Muslim Arabs seem to have the year number 1428 AH and Jews have the year number 5768. We western Christians have 2007 in our Gregorian calendar.

As we can see from the news the Hebrew calendar’s numbers high numbers do not have any correlation with civilized behaviour. The Apartheid State is powerful and kicking in (their) 58th century. Let’s hope the there is no Apartheid in the Gregorian 58th century.

Seems that Israel is slowly learning how civilized people behave. Welcome to the Gregorian 21st century Akbar. JNF to tell court it will market land to non-Jews. It is however a little unclear to me how JNF managed to get hold of 2.6 million dunams (some 650,000 acres) of land in Israel (which constitutes 13 percent of all state lands). The history and especially the present role of JNF is interesting. The state sold land stolen form Arabs to JNF, so that Arabs could not get it back like UN resolution 194 demands. Strange behaviour on the 58th century, in’t it Akbar. Should Arabs and we Christians learn and create organizations like JNF?

This story is the stupidest thing i have ever read in my life (except colin powell’s UN speech about Iraq’s WMD), and the “journalists” who published it are complete and total idiots. Anyone who thinks about it for 2 seconds would see how transparent this idiotic story is. Let me just point out some obvious problems with it:

1) Probably the stupidest thing about this story is that it says: “Before the Israelis issued the order to strike, the commandos had secretly seized samples of nuclear material and taken them back into Israel for examination by scientists, the sources say. A laboratory confirmed that the unspecified material was North Korean in origin.” Obviously, this means that there were at least two missions and probably more (if you believe it). One was the commando raid to get nuclear material out of the nuclear facility, and the other was a bombing raid to destroy the facility. This is totally insane. If nuclear material was stolen from a Syrian facility, don’t you think they would put the facility on high alert? And how long do you think it takes to analyze the material, how many weeks do you think went between stealing Syrian nuclear material and the bombing raid? You don’t think Syria would expect something if this story was true? It is insane.

2) this story expects us to believe that a group of Israel agents dressed up as Syrian soldiers (with full identification) and peacefully walked into a Syrian nuclear facility, went to the part of the facility that houses radioactive materials, took the proper safety precautions for handling such material, identified nuclear materials that were North Korean, packaged them away safely, simply walked out of the nuclear facility and got in come truck or something, drove to a pickup point and were whisked away to Israel, and then after it was analyzed a bunch of jets flew in and bombed a giant hole in the middle of the facility?

Just to show how impossible stealing radioactive material is, here is the American government’s regulation book for the safe transportation of nuclear materials:
http://www.nrc.gov/reading-rm/doc-collections/cfr/part071/
Needless to say, it is not an easy thing to do on it’s own, without regard for the ridiculous story to go with it….

3)The “journalists” themselves doesn’t even believe their own stupid story because the whole second half of it they are openly asking questions which show that they doubt the credibility of explanation they give. If you are confident in your reporting, you don’t write things like:
“Could it have been planted to sow confusion about the route taken by the Israeli F-15I pilots?”
or
“Was Syria hiding North Korean nuclear equipment while Pyongyang prepared for six-party talks aimed at securing an end to its nuclear weapons programme in return for security guarantees and aid? Did Syria want to arm its own Scuds with a nuclear device?”

It’s just a joke.

4) As someone pointed out above, these “journalists” fawn over Barak like he was flying the jets himself, which makes it obvious that the story was planted by the Israeli military. These amazing commando’s of Israel’s have such good intelligence that they didn’t even know that they kidnapped the wrong Hassan Nasrallah during the war last year, but they expect us to believe that they managed a James Bond raid on Syria’s most important nuclear facility? give me a break, it is insane. Israel has maintained a news blackout on this story on purpose to see how well they can manipulate the media when they need to do it, and this planted story is part of their effort to bullshit everyone so that it is easier to believe the worst when they do a bigger raid next time…. there is no doubt about that whatsoever.

5) they claim that the “America approved an attack” as though Israel takes it orders from the USA and they coordinated that directly. That is simply impossible. If that were true, Syria would have every right internationally to attack American forces who helped with this mission. As stupid as Bush is, he is not that stupid to do that.

Needless to say, this story stinks big time.

OK, here’s my new theory.

Israel flew through Jordan and Iraq to swoop into the backside of Syria, something the Syrians probably never anticipated, or at least thought the possibility of such a move so remote that they didn’t expend any defensive resources there.

The Israeli raid was a test, not a bombing mission or anything of the sort. It was simply to guage how well their veil of secrecy over secret military cooperation with Jordan was holding up. Because I further speculate that Jordan has agreed to give Israel overflight rights for an Iranian bombing run, upon the insistence of the neocons/zionists acting out of the Vice President’s office. Cheney wants Israel to start the deed because they know that popular opinion as well as the majority of the military echelon in the U.S. don’t want an attack on Iran and won’t allow it. But if Israel starts the mayhem, the U.S. will be forced to jump in to “defend Israel”. (Read this for background.) This was just a practice run. They dropped the ordinance and fuel tanks to high-tale it back to safety right along the Turkish/Syrian border where it would be much easier to skirt the defenses of either nation as neither would want to accidentally fire into the other. Basically just enough to touch Turkey’s border but not annoy them greatly.

The added benefit of spinning it as a pre-emptive strike on some supposedly secret Syrian nuclear program was a neocon afterthought when they recognized the extra propaganda value they could extract out of the non-story, carried dutifully by our willfully compliant press.

The suggestion is made, the relentless barage of accusations, innuendo, and fabrications floods the national psyche, and the warnicators mark their calendars and then sit back and bide their time.

I have another, somewhat unrelated theory:

“Akbar Palace” is Alan Dershowitz. His knowledge about the Middle East, Arabs and Muslims is as bigoted and uninformed, and his reasoning and conclusions are as mendacious and contrived as those that Douchewitz spins.

Alan, don’t you have some professor’s life to be ruining by getting their tenure denied?

Chaps

I commented yesterday hat none of the Western press had picked up anything resembling the noises that precede major announcements of naughtiness.

This morning our friends the Rusians at TASS published this.

http://www.itar-tass.com/eng/level2.html?NewsID=11898345

I think they are talking about SAM and Anti Tank stuff heading for Lebanon and Gaza. But I also wonder if they are talking about somethings else

Abraham said:

“I have another, somewhat unrelated theory:

“Akbar Palace” is Alan Dershowitz. His knowledge about the Middle East, Arabs and Muslims is as bigoted and uninformed, and his reasoning and conclusions are as mendacious and contrived as those that Douchewitz spins.

Alan, don’t you have some professor’s life to be ruining by getting their tenure denied? ”

LOL I fell out of my chair you are giving Akbar to much credence; I think Akbar is actually Ariel Sharon! (note sarcasm), but hel just think this is another arab conspiracy!

“sick delusions”!
Syrian Information Minister Mohsen Bilal denied on Monday a report in Britain’s Sunday Times that IDF special forces had collected material from a suspected Syrian nuclear site shortly before an alleged IAF strike there on September 6.

“These are sick delusions, intended to raise the morale of the IDF, which was defeated in Lebanon last year. They’re intended only to cause fear among the Arabs,” Bilal told Asharq alawsat.

Uzi Mahnaimi and his misinformation
“Posted on September 24th, 2007 at 7:00 am by Meryl Yourish.

The stories about Israel hitting a Syrian/Korean nuclear facility have been coming fast and furious, and the most sensational are the ones in the London Times, penned by our old pal Uzi Mahnaimi. I would like to refresh your memory on some of the more spurious of his claims (the ethnic bomb that was supposed to target only Arab genes is the first and worst of his claims and, in fact, won me my title of “Master of Juvenile Scorn” during a blogwar several years ago).

There’s actually a very recent article by our man Mahnaimi that can be used to illustrate, well, how wrong he is. This is from June 17th:

ISRAEL’s new defence minister Ehud Barak is planning an attack on Gaza within weeks to crush the Hamas militants who have seized power there.

According to senior Israeli military sources, the plan calls for 20,000 troops to destroy much of Hamas’s military capability in days.

The raid would be triggered by Hamas rocket attacks against Israel or a resumption of suicide bombings.

Barak, who is expected to become defence minister tomorrow, has already demanded detailed plans to deploy two armoured divisions and an infantry division, accompanied by assault drones and F-16 jets, against Hamas.

And if that wasn’t breathless enough, there’s this conclusion:

A source close to Barak said that Israel could not tolerate an aggressive “Hamastan” on its border and an attack seemed unavoidable.

“The question is not if but how and when,” he said.”
More

Whatever you guys think of Mahnaimi’s news reporting, note that there are two other contributors. And note the Times of London has an editing staff that is extremely careful in its editing of news stories.

I cannot vouch for all in this report but some of the same facts were included in a New York Times article published about the same day. The N.Y.Times article could come only from planned disclosures by the State Department or an intelligence official with knowledge of the White House.

President Bush had been hounded all last week by reporters seeking a statement on the air strike. Releasing these facts to two selected newspapers will have the effect of taking the pressure off the President. Heretofore the only public response of the President was warnings to North Korea that international sales of its nuclear equipment was impermissible. This statement is so serious that hard evidence existed that the parts taken in the commando had been manufactured in North Korea.