As long as Israel is not suffering for denying the Palestinians their rights and Occupying Arab land , there is no chance that Netanyahu or any Israeli leader to accept a settlement , THEY DO NOT HAVE TO ,

The Arab world is suffering from unstability and division which is causing Israel not to seriously negotiate for peace! Iraq does not have a government (Reason: Iran wants its own men in control). Lebanon is unstable (Iran wants its men: Hizballah to control the country). Yemen is suffering from a mini-civil war (Iran wants the world to know that it can create chaos anywhere anytime it wants). Palestinian can not even meet to discuss their difference. PA in West Bank and Hamas in Gaza (Iran does not want them to). So, if you analyze the above, you will notice that Iran is the cause of the problems which means it does not want the Palestinians and the Israelis to have peace!!!

GK conclusions is strangely familiar to the neocon/zionist groups that want the US to drop bombs on Iran and/or invade it.

My take is that Lebanon is unstable due to 2 factors US meddling and the fact that the several of the Chrisitan politicians cling to the notion that the majority of the Lebanese population is still largely Christian.

Iraq is in a mess due to the GWB’s desire to change regimes by invading the country. The Iraqi economy, its infrastructure is now worse than it supposedly was under Saddam Hussein. There are close to a million dead and hundreds of thousands of crippled. All due to the invasion directed by the US.

The author of #2 above expects everyone to overlook the facts that Israel has been stealing the lands, crops and other property of Palestinian Arabs for the past 60 years and still occupies Syrian territory.

#2’s main purpose is obvious and that is to create division in the Muslim/Arab world.

GK

THIS IS THE REAL VERSION

The Arab world is suffering from unstability and division which is causing Israel not to seriously negotiate for peace! Iraq does not have a government (Reason: USA wants its own men in control). Lebanon is unstable (USA wants its men: Hizballah NOT to control the country). Yemen is suffering from a mini-civil war (USA wants the world to know that it can create chaos anywhere anytime it wants). Palestinian can not even meet to discuss their difference. PA in West Bank and Hamas in Gaza (USA does not want them to). So, if you analyze the above, you will notice that USA is the cause of the problems which means it does not want the Palestinians and the Israelis to have peace!!!”

In addition, the USA is the blind ally of Israel, so arabs have no chance except by hanging on to IRAN instead of the USA lackey KSA!

Is Iran starting to flex its muscles after been inundated by sanctions and provocations? Is Afghanistan next ?

Iran’s allies winning over the USA in Iraq.

‘The Sadrists present on Friday did not explain their drastic and sudden swing, but in a statement two days ago, issued from Iran, where he is studying theology, Mr. Sadr himself sounded a pragmatic theme.’…

…They are poised to wield influence they have not had since they withdrew from the previous government in 2006. A prominent role in Iraq’s next government for the Sadrists would be a setback for the United States, whose invasion and occupation installed the country’s new democracy.

…they ( Obama administration) made it clear that they did not favor including the Sadrists, who are closely allied with Iran and oppose the presence of American troops.

Diplomats and military commanders here have already signaled an interest in maintaining a close security relationship with Iraq as it rebuilds its armed services and solidifies its still-fragile democratic institutions. While many Iraqi political and military leaders have expressed support for that, the Sadrists remain opposed to what they call “a foreign occupation.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/02/world/middleeast/02iraq.html

Found this interesting to link to.

Syria hopes to bridge costly development gap

By Khaled Yacoub Oweis

AYN AL-ARAB, Syria (Reuters) – Only the old Berlin to Baghdad railway separates the Syrian town of Ayn al-Arab from Turkey’s Mursitpinar, but the contrast between the two sides of the track is so stark they could be on different planets.

Read the full article here.

Interesting events in the Sarah Palin quest to become President of the US in 1012.

According to a website named ” jews sans frontieres” a group named “jews for Sarah” has been formed in the US and pledges made to endorse and fully support Sarah Palin because one of her pledges if elected is “to invade Iran.”

In one of his last commentary on SC SHAI stated that 85% of American jews voted for Obama. Given the emergence of this group Mr. Obama will be lucky if he receives 10% of the vote he received.

http://jewsforsarah.com/

Ghat,

Sounds like an extremist group of Jews that is certainly not representative of American Jews. Btw, I didn’t say 85%, I said 78%. Most American Jews did not support Sarah Palin, and I doubt most ever will.

how does one measure an israeli freeze that is partial.

Feltman: We have important differences with Syria… (mideastwire.com)
September 28, Asharq al-Awsat

“Feltman added saying: “Washington is trying hard to achieve global peace in the region.

feltman-the-zionist forgot to tell us his “we” means israel/jewry.

global peace through bombings and occupations.

tell us more feltman.

SHAI.

Apologize for adding an extra 7% to your estimate. By the way just read that Charles Krauthammer of the Washington Post is an avid admirer and supportive of SP and the Tea Party.

But then no one is perfect.

Ghat,

I’m in touch with the Jewish community in the U.S., and believe me, most do NOT support that redneck Alaskan Palin. Give them (the Jewish Community) a little bit more credit than that… 🙂 Btw, the Jewish Community has changed its stance towards Israel over the years. It is traditionally pro-Israel of course, but during the 1st Intifada, for instance, it began to question and criticize Israeli policies in the West Bank and Gaza. Then came the 2nd Intifada, and the wave turned, and the community was far less critical of Israel, adopting and embracing the new world evil, Terrorism.

Now, the tide’s changing again, not in favor of continued Israeli policy of Occupation. There is a reason J-Street gained so many members so quickly. Though not yet the size or strength of AIPAC, but absolutely challenging it over all issues, and providing a real alternative for Jewish Americans. I would not be surprised if AIPAC is getting weaker nowadays, as worldwide criticism of Israel and its policy shifts into higher gear.

Don’t count on Palin getting a majority of the Jewish vote. Alaska will have to become a desert-state first.

I’m in touch with the Jewish community in the U.S., and believe me, most do NOT support that redneck Alaskan Palin.

Shai,

Please don’t let factual information interfere with Ghat’s preconceived notions. Although I have no issue with Sarah Palin, I think she’s a “lightweight”, and I agree, most American Jews don’t like her (poll data, not opinion). Most American Jews voted Obama/Gore, not McCain/Palin, and most American Jews were against our involvement in Iraq.

Then along comes our most liberal American president in recent memory, which over 3/4 of American Jews voted for, with the most concilliatory stance towards the Arab world, and guess what? The Arabs don’t reciprocate. They still hate us. It’s no surprise they continue to wait for a “more appropriate” US president or the 13th Imam, or whatever comes first.

Ghat,
most American Jews hate and fear Christian fundamentalist more than the fear Palestinians and Arabs ,
AP , Arabs do not hate Jews they just hate what Israel does to the Palestinians , i assume you hated what Germany did to the Jews , we do too but that was not the Palestinian fault ,

AP,

Speaking of factual information and preconceived notions, look how even our “smartest” leaders at the time misread our enemies’ moves, misread their motives, dismissed their initiatives, and as a result led us all to catastrophe. In those days, “catastrophe” meant 2,500 dead and thousands more injured. In today’s terms, god-knows how many that will be.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3964029,00.html

But what’s more important to notice, is how we seem to STILL suffer from those same preconceived notions. Even today we say “The Arabs still hate us…”, with the obvious unstated “They want to destroy us…” And again we dismiss all their initiatives, demand peace-by-capitulation, and lead our people to catastrophe.

“Preconceived Notions” vs. Reality

Even today we say “The Arabs still hate us…”, with the obvious unstated “They want to destroy us…”

Shai,

I’m confused, are you saying the Arabs didn’t want to destroy Israel in 1973? IMHO, Dayan’s “fashla” was one of many examples as to why Israel needs to keep a sharp eye on her borders and preempt if necessary.

OTOH, our peace treaty with Egypt and Jordan have shown that not ALL “Arabs hate us”. Neither does my Arab friend at work.;)

Norman,

My Arab friend and his family don’t hate Israel. They would like to visit.

AP seems to have overlooked what the ex bar bouncer from Moldava and now Foreign Minister of the only democracy in the ME told the UN. That the only solution is for Israel to get rid of ALL the Arabs living in Israel as a start to continuing the highway to peace.

Poor AP is confused, “WE” have been killing Arabs and Muslims on a daily basis for the past ten years in Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan and “WE” still want them to love us the way the ex-bar bouncer from Moldava loves the Arab population in Gaza and the West Bank.

Did not some Rabbi in Israel go on record as stating that, “one million Arabs are not worth the fingernail of one Jew?” Sounds like love with no preconceived notions.

Akbar,

“I’m confused, are you saying the Arabs didn’t want to destroy Israel in 1973? “

No need to be confused. We have the record today (we’ve had it since right after the 73 war). We already know that Egypt had very limited goals (a thin strip of the Sinai, just beyond the Suez canal), and in fact surprised Syria by NOT continuing beyond this goal. Syria wanted to retrieve the Golan. “The Arabs” in 1973 did not want “to destroy Israel”. And the fact that you’re still confused, in this year of 2010, demonstrates perfectly the preconceived notions I claimed most Israelis, most Jews, and I would guess also most non-Jews still have about 1973, and about “The Arabs” in general. And specifically towards Israel, of course.

Shai, This one for you ,

Home News Published 02:12 07.10.10 Latest update 02:12 07.10.10 Let’s party like it’s 1973
Nothing has changed in 37 years. Israel has the same arrogant hubris and the same obstinate resistance to any prospect of a peace agreement.
By Gideon Levy
The act of atonement in which we are engaged over the recently declassified documents from the Yom Kippur War is nothing but a hollow pagan ritual. Suddenly we learn that Golda Meir considered ordering an “insane” operation against Syria and said the world was “contemptible;” defense minister Moshe Dayan called for abandoning wounded soldiers in the field and was thoroughly depressed; and Israel Defense Forces chief of staff David Elazar tended to lie to the public.

We love to indulge in discussing the blunders of 1973, imagining that they belong to the ancient past. All the responsible parties are dead, but the topic is still alive and kicking. The winds of 1973 blow hard today, and nothing has changed. The fact is that today, when each of Golda’s pronouncements and Dayan’s proposals are headlines once again, nobody remembers another error from this period, a much more critical mistake, by the same gang, made when it squandered the opportunity, in the early 1970s, of reaching an agreement with Egypt. Had a real lesson been learned from the Yom Kippur War, the scandal would have been attributed to this missed chance for negotiations – the same error that is being made today.

In the early 1970s, there was a genuine prospect for peace with Egypt. President Gamal Abdel Nasser agreed to the Rogers Plan, to which all subsequent peace proposals bear a striking resemblance, and even invited World Jewish Congress head Nahum Goldmann to confer with him. Golda blocked the meeting and ridiculed the idea, and Dayan declared, “Better to have Sharm el-Sheikh without peace.” The rest is history: Israel always prefers war to peace, and if there is no choice then we’ll make peace after a war, never before. Peace with Egypt, the withdrawal from south Lebanon and recognition of the Palestine Liberation Organization, all took place only after blood was shed, never before.

Nothing has changed in 37 years. It’s the same arrogant hubris, the same obstinate resistance to any prospect of an agreement, the same failure to recognize that only peace will save us from another defense minister who sinks into an existential depression while warning of an impending holocaust. What’s the point of this festival of 1973 war documents and this retroactive dance of death? Why look back, if on the day the settlement building freeze ended the settlers did a remarkably accurate imitation of the dance of arrogance that preceded the 1973 war?

There is no difference between the Plymouth Valiants driven by the lords of Israel in those days, the generals who went to Tel Aviv restaurants where their photographs decorated the walls, and today’s torpor. The same drunken blindness is at play, even if the cult of the generals has since been curbed. Nasser sought peace in the early 1970s, and Bashar Assad, Mahmoud Abbas and the Arab League are knocking in vain at Israel’s closed door in 2010. We mocked and turned a deaf ear then; we mock and turn a deaf ear now. We have examined photographs from parties in those power-drunk days and failed to find a hint of sobriety, or even a hangover, today. Look at us then and see us today. The fun and games continue, and the state shouts for joy, now as then.

Clip and save the bread and circuses: National Infrastructure Minister Uzi Landau promising power stations on the occupied Golan Heights and Transportation Minister Yisrael Katz promising a railroad on the occupied West Bank, just as Dayan and Shimon Peres promised a “deep-water harbor” at Yamit. It’s the same story – the jubilation over natural gas discoveries, the roars of joy over the bulldozers in the settlements, the blunt indifference to world opinion, the apathy to the ills of the occupation, the obsession with trivialities, the gossip columns that bow to the rich and powerful, the small screen that keeps us from knowing what is really happening and the smokescreen of complacency that shrouds it all. Clip and save, and when the next scandal over a failure of leadership arises, in much less than 37 years, once again we won’t be able to pretend to be shocked and surprised.

Take the Home Front Command public service message in which a cute soldier tells actress Tiki Dayan not to hurry, she can continue to fry her schnitzels. Listen to the soldier, in her voice: Keep pounding those chicken cutlets, thin, just the way we like, there’s nothing urgent.
Print Page Send to a friend Comments Share Text Size +|- Follow us on Twitter Become a Haaretz.com Facebook friend This story is by:

Gideon Levy

Why has no-one explored the growing links between Thierry Meyssan and the Iranians? Nine years after the publication of his seminal book, 9/11: the Big Lie, he has been defending Iran in a series of articles which accuse the Americans of posting disinformation about the country’s election on Twitter and of insisting that adulterous woman in Iran are no longer put to death by stoning.
One possible cause is that the super wealthy Iranian Revolutionary Guards, who control a third of the country’s economy, have just sponsored Monsieur Meyssan to the tune of one million dollars to produce a long overdue fresh literary masterpiece
The book – I know not the title but that it is to be published later this month – deals with the assassination of Lebanon’s former prime minister Rafiq Hariri back in 2005. Why such a historical event? Except to say that Meyssan claims his book will contain evidence that the state of Israel – the No.1 enemy of Iran – was behind the murder.
Exactly what this proof will be we await with interest – particularly as Hezbollah said a similar thing two months ago. In that case it produced aerial photographs it says it downloaded from an Israeli drone showing Israel had been tracking Mr Hariri long before his assassination. Sources in the Middle East say Meyssan will expand on that – though he will have not be testing this evidence with any form of independent verification.
Hezbollah has also been doing a good job of minding Meyssan from his new base in Beirut, in particular for his frequent forays, totalling six months, into Iran to write and research his book, as well as showing it chapter by chapter to his paymasters.
One feature which will remind those familiar with Meyssan style is that he will say the attack on the Lebanon prime minister as by a missile and not the car bomb which everyone else (excepting Hezbollah says). Mons Meyssan said that the Pentagon was hit by a missile and not by American Airlines 77 – this despite scores of witnesses to the crash.
Let us hope for Meyssan’s sake this account is not demolished in quite the same way that this last book was.

Shai’s Odd History Lesson “Demonstrates Perfectly”

Shai states:

“The Arabs” in 1973 did not want “to destroy Israel”. And the fact that you’re still confused, in this year of 2010, demonstrates perfectly the preconceived notions I claimed most Israelis, most Jews, and I would guess also most non-Jews still have about 1973, and about “The Arabs” in general. And specifically towards Israel, of course.

From Wikipedia on the Yom Kippur War:

By October 8, Israel was beginning to encounter military difficulties on both fronts; despite advances in the Golan, Syrian air defense systems were taking a high toll of Israeli planes, and in the Sinai, the Israeli effort to break through Egyptian lines with armor had been thwarted.[160] It became clear by October 9 that no quick reversal in Israel’s favor would occur and that IDF losses were unexpectedly high.[161]

Israel suffered between 2,520[19][14][216] and 2,800 killed in action.[13] An additional 7,250[217] to 8,800[13] soldiers were wounded. Some 293 Israelis were captured.[218] Approximately 400 Israeli tanks were destroyed. Another 600 were disabled but returned to battle after repairs.[21] A major Israeli advantage, noted by many observers, was their ability to quickly return damaged tanks to combat.[98][219] The Israeli Air Force lost 102 aircraft: 32 F-4s, 53 A-4s, 11 Mirages and 6 Super Mysteres.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yom_Kippur_War

Akbar,

I see that you’re still confused. This is part of why you’re confused – you see facts, but misinterpret them. If to you “to destroy Israel” means to capture and hold a thin strip of the Sinai, and to do so by killing anything along the way (including infantry, armored units, artillery, and planes), then I agree with you, Egypt wanted “to destroy” anything Israeli that stood in her way to achieving her goal. But if to you “to destroy Israel” means also to conquer all of Israel, to reach Tel-Aviv, etc., then you are wrong. Many, who think like you, cannot distinguish between limited goals, and unlimited ones. They cannot differentiate between capturing only part of the Sinai and stopping, and aiming at meeting the Syrian forces in Tel-Aviv. But it is now well known (and nothing in your Wikipedia links contradicts this) that Egypt had very limited goals. She did NOT aim at the destruction of the State of Israel. She DID aim at destroying anything that stood in her way of reaching her LIMITED goals, which are now well known.

It is also well known in Israel, and it is being reconfirmed nowadays with the release of the archives, that Dayan was suffering from extreme depression and paranoia during those early hours of the war. He had so underestimated the strength of our enemies, that the strategic surprise caused him to view the attack as “the destruction of the 3rd temple” (your notion of ‘to destroy Israel’). Someone wrote not long ago, that if there was any REAL deception that took place in the October 73 war, it was Egypt’s deception of Syria, who thought that Egypt would continue much further into Israel. Egypt stopped, not because Israeli forces forced her to, but because it had limited goals! It is also well known, that even after Egypt accepted the American call for cease-fire, three times over, Israel continued to destroy Egyptian forces deep inside Egyptian territory (while Egypt’s 2nd Army had long stopped inside its limited territory capture in the Sinai).

Shai, we need your comments on http://www.qifanabki.com
Hope all’s well

Akbar,

Let’s see you defend this one… The Jewish Republic of Israel…
http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/opinion/the-jewish-republic-of-israel-1.318135

Honest Patriot,

Nice to hear from you! Will try to hop into QN’s place. Super-busy nowadays…

Something to ponder over: 5 Myths about Middle East peace

Badr,

The only way for peace in the Mideast is either war and war until one party wins or Binding Arbitration ,