Do we understand from this posting of Dr. Landis as well as all these reports/interviews of the previous posting (Mr. Hersh) that the US may soon allow the Syrian people to overthrow Bashar who represents a minority Syrian clan and allow Syria to have a real representative government with a Syrian Sunni at the top? This may fit perfectly with all these clandestine, and at the same time sensational, revelations.

Major Sunni States meet in Islamabad to discuss stabilization of Middle East. Syria and Iran are excluded because they are perceived as part of the problem according to Pakistani official. Meeting calls for collective support of Lebanon and its government, Israeli withdrawal from occupied territories (including Golan) and the reaffirmation of Beirut 2002 Arab initiative as well as the peaceful resolution of Iranian nuclear standoff. It also calls for unified stand against radical groups:

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???? ?? ?????? ??????? ???????? ?? ????? ???? ????? ???? ???? ???????? ?????????? ?????? ????? ?????? ?? “??????? ?????? ???? ???? ??????? ?????? ??????? ??????? ?? ??? ?????? ????? ??????”? ?????? ??? ????? “?? ?? ??????? ?? ???? ????????????? ???? ?????? ??? ??????? ?????”. ????? ?????? ?? ????? “????? ??????? ??? ????? ????? ????????? ?? ????? ??????”? ???? ?? “??? ?? ????? ????? ?? ??? ????? ??? ?????”.
????? ?? ????????? ??? ??????? ?????? ??????? ?????? ???? ?????? ??????? ???? ??? ????? ???????? ???????? ?????? ??????????? ??? ???????? ????????? ??? ???? ????? ??????? ??????? ???? ??????? ????? ?????? ??????? ???????? ???? ????? ????? ?????.
???? ?????? ?? ?????? ?????????? ????? ?? ??????? ?? ????? ?????? ???? ???? ?? ???? ??? ???? ??? ?????? ??????? ????? ??????? ????????? ??????? ?????? ???? ?????? ??? ????? ??? 2002? ????? ????????? ?????? ????? ?????? ???? ??? ????? ???? ???????? ???? ??????? ?????. ???? ?? ????????? ????? ????? ?????? ?? ??????? ?????? ??????? ??????? ??? ???????? ??????????? ?? ???? ?????? ??????? ?????? ?????? ????? ???? ????? ????? ????? ??? ??????? ??????? ?????? ?????? ???????? ??????? ????? ?????????.
????? ?? ??????? ?????? ??????? ?????? ??????????? ?? ??????? ??????? ??? ?????? ?????? ????? ?? ?????? ?????? ?? ????? ??? ???? “??????? ???? ??? ??? ?????”. ????? ???? ??? ????? ????? ?? ?????? ???? ???? “????? ?????? ?????? ??? ????????” ?? ?????? ??? ???? ????? ??? ????? ?????? ???????? ??????? ???. ?????? ??? ?????? ????????.
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???? ?????? ?????????? ??????? ????? ???? ??? ??????? ????? ?????? ?????? ??????? ??? ????? ???????? ?? ????? ??????. ????? ?????? ??? ??? ???????? ??? ?????? ?? ??? ??? ?????? ??????? ?? ?????? ???? “??? ???? ????” ?? ?????? ??????. ???? ???????? ???????-?????? ?? ?????? ????? “?????”? ??????? ?? “???????? ??? ?????? (????????)”.
????? ????? ???????? ??? ?? ????? ?????? ?? ????? ??? ????? ?????? “??????? ???????? (??????) ?? ??????” ?? ????? ??????. ????? ?????? ??? ???? ?? ?????? ?????? ???? ?????? ????????? ?????? ????? ??? ???? ??????? ?????????? ???? ???? ???? ?????? ???????? ???? ????????. ?????: “??? ??? ????? ??? ??????? ?? ????? ??????”.
???? ????? ???? ????? ???????? ??????? ????? ?????? ?? ?????? ?????? ?? ????? ?????? ??? ????? ?? ???? ?????? ?????????? ?????? ???? ???? ?? ???????? ???????????. ???? ??? ????? ????? ????? ??????? ?? ????? ????? ?????” ?”??? ???? ?????? ?????? ??? ???? ????? ???????”. ???? ??? ?????????? ??????? ?????? ?????? ???? ????? ??????.

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Thank you, Prof. Landis, for posting these important articles and examining what might well be another disastrous short-sighted measure of U.S. foreign policy…

I am also glad to see that Saab and Riedel have drawn the distinction between the Hizbollah-Sunni alliance in Lebanon and demarcated it from the al-Qaeda type Salafist groups – because this is one important facet of anti-Hizbollah misinformation (that they are tied to al-Qaeda) that is carried out by the hawks in Israel and the U.S.

I would also like to state here that it is important to understand the long-term consequences of short-term U.S. policies… The ‘Orientalists’ among the neo-conservatives are quick to lament the lack of demarcation between religion and state in Arab and Muslim countries, but they gloss over the fact that the U.S. is singularly responsible for destroying the very movements that sought to distance religion from politics in the Arab and Muslim countries…

The ideal of separating religion from politics is, in its essence, a leftist or liberal ideal… Iran, under Mohammad Mossadegh in 1952 was not an “Islamo-Fascist” country, neither was Egypt one under Nasser, nor Syria or Iraq under their first waves of the Ba’ath renaissance… All of these countries were striving for secular nationalism, some desiring a pan-Arab secular state. All these movements were, to varying degrees, subverted and attacked by the U.S. primarily because they were left-leaning and refused to join U.S. accords against the Soviet Union, or U.S. alliances with Israel…

When the United States destroyed the secular left in the Arab and Muslim world, the only medium left available for political outrage was Islam…

Islam is not the message – it is the medium of outrage… Those who point to the religious aspirations of the Salafists are missing the point – the reason why their message has an audience, however small, is not because it is perceived to be the absolute truth, but because it provides for an avenue, however twisted, for channeling outrage…

It is, in the larger strategic sense, as misleading to argue that the problem with Palestinians in the 1970s was Marxism, as it is to argue today that the problem is Islamism…

Having said that, a repeat of pitting Wahabi or Salafist forces against the new enemy, (in the 1980s it was the USSR) the Shiites, may seem to make short-term sense for U.S. interests in Iraq, Lebanon or Syria, but the long-term implications are very disturbing… Ultimately, the Shiite and Sunni elements opposed to Salafists (who are the minority among the Muslims) will find a way out of this trap… And when they do, they will be a formidable force, and their anger will focus back on the U.S.

Very good Abhinav Aima and I may add not as sensational as Dr. Landis for obvious reasons (Landis is a Syrian Alawite regime apologist and the only way for him to do it is to be sensational).
To make it brief, your analysis seems to suggest that the US with its policies is in the process of awakening a giant namely the Muslim Sunnis that count over a billion souls that may for one reason or another share some grievances against it (the US). The US may still be able to reverse this trend by allowing the Syrians to have a representative government with a Syrian Sunni at the top. This will absorb most of the grievances Muslims may have against the US. It will also pave the way for a stable and peaceful Middle East. I don’t believe you are espousing a return to the failed era of so-called nationalism and/or liberalism. It is obviously too late for that, and somehow the US should act with the genie out of the bottle – just out of respect for realpolitiks espoused by Landis and his choir on this blog.

Abhinav , thank you and I am glad that there are people in the US who have a forsight to see our Goverment’s missteps.

Gibran,

I am not sure if the U.S. interests really are focused on a democratically elected government in Syria or anywhere else, because, Sunni or Shiite, the majority of Muslims in many crucial countries (according to opinion polls) are opposed to two central tenets of U.S. foreign policy:

1. Support for Israel at the cost of the Palestinians on issues such as rights of refugees, removal of settlements, return of Arab lands, and questions of the status of Jerusalem.

2. Access to natural resources and markets at the cost of lower profits, if elected governments should seek to change their relationship with U.S. companies.

If we understand the U.S. foreign policy apparatus to be monolithic in its attitude toward handling challenges to inherent U.S. interests, then the U.S. attitude toward Bolivia and Venezuela, both democratically elected governments, show that the tendency is still to sulk and destroy, rather than seek a diplomatic resolution of differences with hostile, yet democratic, governments.

Unfortunately, my conclusion in this regard is that the Bush administration wants to use Sunni money and movements to harass and weaken hostile regimes linked to Iran. I do not believe that they envision democracy or freedom in Syria, precisely because they are not convinced that they same will lead to a pro-Neoconservative agenda Syrian government.

Of course Abhinav Aima, Muslims perceive US cooperation with a non representative Alawi regime, which took place clandestinely on and off during Hafez rule, as a major grievance. Besides it is well known that the non representative alawi minority Syrian regime is the major impediment to a stable Middle East including Iraq. Therefore, removing this regime will achieve the double advantage of absorbing major Muslim grievance as well as set the stage for a stable Middle East which is now in the interest of the US (at least in Iraq). The new Syrian government may not be pro-Neoconservative as you said; but lacking previous grievances it may well cooperate without being perceived illegitimate in the eyes of its Syrian people. Issues in the Middle East are not perceived as black and white as many in NA would normally look at them!

Gibran , you live in Canada , I do not see any suuni in the Goverment of Canada ,may be that is why Canada is much better than all the sunni states , please stop being a racist ,next you are going to ask only for people with brown eyes to be in goverment , remember all Syrians are eligible and Syria needs all qualified people , then i forgot you are Lebanese,and you guyes onlt think of your religous affiliations by the way if you realy want a sunni goverment then may be you should leave this country of Canada which has an infidle goverment and go live in Saudi heaven.

What is really bothering you Norman? And who are you besides being Syrian? Are you Alawi by the way?
May I remind you it is none of your business where I may choose to live? Just as much as I don’t care where you may end up dead?
And do I need to tell you once again to mind your own business?
Don’t you realize that it was Landis who raised the issue of Sunnis, Shias and Alawis? Go back and read what he is posting. Do you only want to hear a one sided story? I thought you have such an open mind. I was wrong after all!

Gibran, You are wrong again , Iam just Syrian.

OK Norman. Then be cool and stick to the subject.

And I am a human resident of this planet!

Interesting. So you’re saying that even for all the anti-Shia sentiment among salafist jihadists types, this sentiment is secondary to their resistance against the “West”? Do you think these radical (Sunni-identified) groups are only allying with Hezbollah to get rid of what they see as a “corrupt” government, but that once they achieved their objectives, would fight against Hezbollah?

Saab/Riedel analysis asserts the following in their report/study:
“In Lebanon, Jabhat al-‘Amal al-Islami (or Islamic Action Front), a Sunni Islamist umbrella organization formed and led by Fathi Yakan, is today the most relevant Sunni Islamist actor that enjoys good and working relations with Hizb’allah.”

An irrelevant Fathi Yakan is portrayed as the most relevant Sunni Islamist actor in Lebanon by the celebrated study!

Well, in the last demonstartion in Beirut by Hezbollah in its effort to topple the government, this Mr. Yakan was supposed to be a main speaker. It so happened that he did not even appear once the Grand Mufti of Lebanon issued his famous fatwa of the inadmissibility of toppling the government through street protests.

The study also purports that this obscure Yakan represents a major constituency in the north of Lebanon. Well guess what? Pro government gathering took place in the main Tripoli square (two times the size of Riad el-Solh and Martyr Squares combined where Hezbollah demonstrated its full strength). According to eyewitnesses, they never saw the Tripoli square so full.
The truth of the matter is Hezbollah has reduced itself through its attempted coup started in December to a purely sectarian organization with no appeal whatsoever among the Sunnis of Lebanon not to mention the other major communities that make up Lebanon. Furthermore, the Beirut demonstrations have consumed any popular support Hezbollah may have enjoyed in the Arab world. These demonstrations brought back to the minds of the masses an ugly phase of Islamic history when the third Caliph was besieged by the mob and later on assassinated. In this case the scene of Mr. Seniora besieged by the Hezbollah mob was the catalyst which caused the greatest harm in terms of Arab public opinion – just another miscalculation on the part of Nasrallah after his summer fiasco. Can you guess now why Mr. Nasrallah seemed so depressed in his last appearance?

The following report found in AlArabiya clearly shows the dilemma that Syrian/Iranian/Hezbollah axis is facing with none other than a group of Syrian INTELLECTUALS who recently had several dialogue sessions with an Iranian official (Deputy Iranian Foreign Minister) in Damascus. The intellectuals raised with the official some very bold issues that caused him some real shock. According to these intellectuals these are issues that deeply concern the Syrian street. Among the questions were the attempts of the Iranians to proselytize Sunnis into Shiism (an issue recently denied sarcastically by Nasrallah and you may find a reference to it in a Landis post). They also drilled the Deputy Foreign Minister on the UAE Islands in the Gulf occupied by Iran since the time of the Shah among other issues:

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The full article can be found at:

http://www.alarabiya.net/Articles/2007/02/25/32032.htm

Dear Joshua,

Bilal Saab analysis is partly wrong. True, Harakat al-Tawhid and Fathi Yakan’s Jabha Islamiyya are pro-Hizbullah Sunni groups. However, al-Jamaa al-Islamiyya (Yakan’s former movement) is now part of the 14th of March and officially took part in the last February 14t meeting in Beyrouth. Hariri has also obtained the clear support of Da’iyat al-Islam al-Shahhal, a non-Jihadi Salafi leader of Tripoli.

Sincerely,

A.N.

Assad will attend the Arab summit in Saudi Arabia.

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???? ???? ??? ?????? ?????? ??? ????? ?? ???? ??????? ???????? ????? ??????? ?? ????????? ????? ???? ????? ????? ????? ??????? ?????? ??? ???? ????? ?? ?????? ????? ??????. ????? ???? ????? ???? ?? ?????? ???? ??? ?? ???? ?????? ??????? ?? ???? ???? ?? ??? ???????? ????? «????? ????? ????? ??????? ??? ??? ??? ????? ??????».

????? ???? ?? «??????» ?? ?????? ?? ????? ??? «?????? ???? ??? ????? ?????? ???? ?????? ???? ??? ?????? ?????? ?? ???: ?? ????? ????? ??? ????? ?????? ?? ???? ??? ???????? ??? ?? ???? ?? ?????? ????? ??????? ???????? ???????? ??????? ??????».

????? ???? ????? ?????????? ?? ??????? ?????? ????? ?? ????? ??????? «???? ??? ?? ?? ??????»? ????? ????? ????? ?? ???? «????? ??? ??? ????? ?? ?????? ??????? ????? ???? ??????? ??? ???? ???????» ???????.

??? ?????? ?? ????? ???? ???????? ???? ?????? ?? ?????? ????? ?????? ????? ??????? ?? ????? ??????? ?????? ?? ???????.

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Some quick comments:

Bilal Saab writes:

“First of all, Sy assumes that Sunni radical groups and Salafist jihadist groups in Lebanon are pretty much the same thing.”

I don’t think that this criticism is justified, at least not on the basis of Hersh’s article. In fact, Bilal seems to have missed this quote from the article:

“Asbat al-Ansar has received arms and supplies from Lebanese internal-security forces and militias associated with the Siniora government” (emphasis mine, MSK… 😀 ).

Then, in the Blitzer interview, Hersh spoke of “three Sunni jihadist groups”:

“… this money has gotten into the hands, among other places, in Lebanon, into the hands of three, at least three jihadist groups.

There’s three Sunni jihadist groups whose main claim to fame inside Lebanon right now is that they are very tough. These are people connected to al Qaida who want to take on Hezbollah. So this government, at the minimum, we may not directly be funneling money to them, but we certainly know that these groups exist.”

So Asbat al-Ansar is one of them, but which are the other two?

I agree with Gibran that Saab/Riedel may overestimate the influence of Fathi Yakan, but I will have to read the paper first before commenting on it…

MSK, your “rhetorical” question” is, in fact, very interesting.

The main difference between the Dinniyeh group and Fatah al-Islam is that the first was certainly not controlled or influenced by any government, while in the case of the latter we can’t be so sure.

One should note that the version given by Hersh is diametrically opposed to the earlier version by Al-Mustaqbal.

If there were no foreign interferences (Iran and Syria) in Lebanon. Lebanon would rank number one not only in middle east but in Asian continent as a whole in terms of a business and Tourist destination. Every one loves Lebanon, its a beautiful country. Lebanese talents are recognized worldwide. Lebanon only obstacle, it is facing from a long time is foreign interference.
It seems like Lebanon only fault that it is geographically and strategically important. Lebanon is a victim of syrian terrorism. I believe that there will be one day justice in Lebanon

I am not good in religion but I would like to say
that I am not against sunni, shite, druze, christians, jews and bahai’s. In any religion in the world there are moderate and extremist. It is a duty for the international community to reject extremism

I might have had a bit more confidence in Hersh’s grasp of these murky affairs if he had managed to get the name of the Syrian president right (“Bashir”) and if he had shown a better grasp of the importance of the Hariri tribunal–he suggested that the tribunal would constitute a second investigation. He does not seem to have considered the possibility that Syria might also be fishing in the waters of Sunni extremism.

The words of Martin Gebhardt and Ahmad Nurani are important and deserve a few comments.

Yes, Ahmad, al Jama’a al Islamiyya has elements that are pro-government, but the group is divided and the relevant cadres (like I say in my article) are pro-Hizb’allah. See what happened to Harmoush after he delivered that speech with the March 14 forces? News of the rift inside the group are no secret and can be easily checked out. Al Shahal is an important preacher, yes, I include him in my forthcoming article, and I never claimed that the Hariri-led March 14 alliance is completely stripped of its Sunni base. But al Shahal is not Yakan.

Martin, I’ve told you previously that your research is first rate, which is why I acknowledge you in my forthcoming article on Salafist Jihadists in Lebanon (the comments you sent me the draft were solid). Now, on this piece, I kindly ask you to put forward your arguments on why you think Fathi Yakan’s influence is overestimated. You seem to agree with previous comments that he is. I have laid out my reasons why he isn’t in my article. If you need more empirical evidence on who Yakan is and what he represents, I’m happy to discuss further.

Thank you Ahmad and Martin, I appreciated your pointed comments.

This piece from champress today mentions Hersh’s article while it reminds the “moderate” Arabs that Syria (which accomplished the first 90% of their Mecca agreement, according to champress) is still going to the Arab summit, but is ready for the destabilization tactics mentioned in Hersh’s article.

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???? ?? ??????? ??? ??? ????? ??????? ??? ?????? ?? ??????? ???? ?????? ??? ??????? ?????????? ??????? ???? ???????? ??? ??????? «???????? ?????????» ????? «??????? ???? ???? ??? ????? ??????? ????? ??? ????? ???? ???? ???? ?? ?????? ??????? ????? ?? ?????? ?????? ???????? ?? ??????? ??????? ??????? ?? ?????? ??? ??? ??? ??????».
?? «???????? ????? ?????? ????? ????? ??? ????? ???????? ??????????? ???? ??? ?? ???? ??????? ?????? ?? ??????? ????????? ????? ??? ????? ???? ???? ?????? ??????? ??? ?????? ??????? ?? ?? ?????? ???? ???????? ???? ?????? ????? ?? ??? ?? ????? ????? ????? ????? ?? ??? ???? ?? ?????? ?? ????? ???? ??? ?????». (???? ??? ?????? http://www.champress.net/?page=show_det&id=15148
??? ??? ??? ??? ????? ???? ??????? ?????? ?? ??? ??????? ?? ?????? ??????? ????? ???? ?????? ?? ??????? ?? ????? ???? ??????? ??? ????? ???????? ??????? ???????? ????? ?????????????? ???? ???? ???? «????????» ??? ???? ?? ???? ?????? ?????? ???? ??? «???????? ??????? ????? ??????? ????? ?????? ?????? ?? ????? ??? ????? ?????? ?????? ??? «??? ???????» ?«???? ???????» ????? ?? ??????? ????? ?? ???? ???? ???????? ?????????? ?? ????? ??? ???????? ??? ????? «???? ?????? ??????» ???????? ?????? ??? ?????? ???? ?????? ?? ????? ?????? ???? ????? ????? ??????? ???????? ?? ??????. ???? ???? ?? «???????????? ???? ???? ????? ??? ?????? ????? ?????? ??? «????? ???????» ???? ???????? ??????? ?? ?????? ?????? ?? ????? ????????? ?? ??? ????? ???????? ?? ???? ????? ????? ?????? ??? ????????». (???? ??? ?????? http://www.champress.net/?page=show_det&id=15152&select_page=1)

Hersh spoke to the Lebanese Assafir newspaper:

He says that Prince Bandar convinced the Americans that it is possible to direct the extremist Lebanese groups to take action against Syria and Hizballah and that there will be nothing to worry about for Americans from doing so.

Hersh also mentioned “The Lebanese forces” withot mentioning if they were directly given weapons, instead he said: “money can buy weapons”

???? ???? ?? ???? ?? «??????»? ??? ???? ????? ?? ??? ??? ?? «???????? ??????? ??? ???? ?? ?? ????? ?? ?? ???» ?? ?????? ???? ?? ??? «???? ???? ??????? ??????» ?? ??????? ???????.
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????? ???? ????? ?????? ??????. ??? ??? ???? ????? ?? ????? ????? ??? ??? ?????? ????? ?????? ??????? ?????? ???? ?? ????? ?? ????? ?????????? ?????? ?????? ???? ??????? ?????????? ?? ????? ???? ????? ?????? ?? ???? ?? ??? ??? ??????????.
???? ???? ?????? ??????? ???? ????? «????? ???????» ??????? ?????????? ?? ???? ?????? ??? ?????? ????? ?????? ????? ?????? ????? ??????? ?????? ???????? ?? ?????? (????? ????? ???? ????? ???????) ????? ???? ???? ???????? ??? ?????? ????. ???? ???? ????? ?????? ?????? ??????? ??? ??? ?????? ???? ??????? ??? ????????? ??? ??? ?? ????? ????? ????? ??? ??? «???????? ??????? ?? ???? ???? ?? ?????».
???? ??????? ?? ???????? ??????? ???? «????? ????? ?????? ????????… ?? ??? ?????? ?? ??? ????? ?????? ?????? ??? ?????? ?????? ??????»? ???? ????? ????????? ???? ???? ??????? ????? ??????.
???? ???? ?? ????????? ?????????? ??????????? ?????? ????? ???? ???? ?? ????? ???????? ???????? ????? ???? ??? ????????? ?? ??? ??? ????? ??????? ???? ????????? ????? ?? ???? ????? ??????? ???? ???????? ?????????? ?? ??????? ????? ??? ?????????? ???? ???????? ???? ?????? ?? ???? ??? ??????? ??? ????? ??????? ??????? ?? ????? ????? ?????? ????????? ?????? ?????? ????????.
????? ???? ?? ????? ??«??????» ?????? ?????????? ???? ?? ???? ?? ??? ???? ??? ????????? ????? ????? ????? ??? «?? ????? ????? ??????».

As far as we are concerned, there is nothing new in Seymore Herch article. It seems the intention of the article is to expose some wrongfull doing as he see it by the administration.

It is directed more at the internal political scene in the US, rather than at bothering with the political situation in this area.

As far as Saudi Arabia is concerned, the decison is solidly in the hands of King Abdullah, not any one else. Not Bandar alone for sure. And King Abdullah is not one to accept, allow, or risk burning his bridges to Damascus. He is upset over Harriri and over the “half men” speach, but he knows that these are things to get over, same like the “authorised Saudi source” fiasco in July. In this context, a lot of Saudi telltale signals -towards Damascus, Hamas and Hizbullah- can be understood and appreciated. What the Saudies are doing it seems, is salvaging things from before the stuff hits the fan; wither through an American escalation with Iran, or as a result of a collapse of the US efforts in Iraq.

Also, all talk about decoupling Syria and Iran,or Hamas and Syria, or Hizbullah and Syria is wishfull thinking -in my opinion- known and understood by Saudi. And can not be risked. Talk about Salafies and Jihadies and thier being supported by Saudi and others, is being blown out of proportion. Harriri Jr. may be inclined, and immature enough, to try such an approach. But not Saudi Arabia and the Gulf countries.They know how dangerous such a tactic is, and they are also still suffering from the effects of Sep 11. Given a choice between Al Malki and Iran and Hizbullah and between the likes of Bin Laden, the choice seems obvious. That is why the rapproachment with Hizbullah and to a degree Iran and Syria. That is perhaps why the cold soulder to Harriri and Co.

It is a lot of people posturing and saying something but acting in a different manner.More like a slow, face-saving and a hectic salvage operation.

Ausamaa,

I agree with you that “It is a lot of people posturing and saying something but acting in a different manner.More like a slow, face-saving and a hectic salvage operation.”

But I believe that everyone by now realize that they probably do not have enough control or influence to force their favorite solution on any of the conflicts, so they are investing in both conflict and diplomacy … in case they manage to bully their opponents successfully, it would be their favorite choice, otherwise, they continue talking to their opponents in order to reach a compromise.

And there is also the alliance Dynamic where each couple continue to remind their partners that they can switch anytime if they are taken for granted … so Syria And Iran will stay as allies but they both cooperate with Saudi Arabia (directly or privately) … The Saudis will remain America’s allies but they remind the Americans that if they do not stop strangling the Mecca agreement, the Saudis might act very friendly to Damascus at the Arab summit …

But there is something disturbing that Hersh outlined in this article … frustrations of the Bush administration are leading them to try to adopt more and more desperate tactics … they realized that their opponents in the Middle East are better armed (Hizbollah and Hamas) than their loca allies (Seniora and Abbas). To the Americans (and Prince Bandar) it is about bullies and the bullies who should bully them back.

A relevant question that comes to mind is who Mr. Seymor Hersh works for? and who is paying him? Is it possible that some group financed his production of such misinformation! It seems he spent quite sometime in Cairo just to produce half truths!
The same questions can also be asked about Mr. Saab and his associate. Obviously Mr. Saab is a Middle Easterner and he should know better than making such cheap misrepresentations.

You are right Alex, but the strength of Hizbullah and Hamas does not come from being “better armed” or “less armed” than the Siniora and Abbas, and here I would rather make a clear distinction between those two in Abass’s favour. Money can buy you a lot of things, but not everything. So I do not think that Siniora’s arming of Salafies is any more serious than Israel arming notorious Shieat anti-Hamas. Did you notice also Junblat running like hel to the States!! And what would Harriri’s partner Ja’ja say about Al Harriri arming Jihadi Salafies?? Would not be exactly happy, would he? What if those Jihadies remember Palestine and Jews and Christians and stuff, and decide to re-direct their own actions? No,I just do not see it as a serious matter. Propaganda, little theatrics, but not that serious.

Herch has also been somewhat on Syria and Hizbullah, by mentioning that while Syria is accused by some, yet no evidence has been produced. I also detected a somewhat resigned note on Herch’s part accepting living with Hizbullah if not opening a dialouge with the Hizb.

Anyway, again, I think everyone has reached the edg of the cliff and decided to back out and is now busy trying to put the best window dressing availlable.

As to the “relevant” question above of Who Finance Seymour Herch? Beats me. But he certainly does not work at something that resembles Al Seyassah, or Al Sharq Al Awsat or Al Hiyat. And if he venture to visit Nassralah in Lebanon, I do not think a lot of people are financing him, or are happy with him. But if we insist on finding an answer to that question, we can just say that he is on the payroll of Syria and Iran. Like usual.

You actually forgot to mention Champress, Tichreen and Thawra Aussama. You may be right after all. The Syrians may have realized their media is so ineffective so they hired someone like Mr. Hersh and Mr. Saab to do the job. After all Landis has been doing it for them for quite sometime. May be he’s become so exposed they need some seemingly neutral mouthpiece(s).
I think I mentioned to you previously that I admire your optimism. But an unguarded optimism (I mean optimism from a Syrian perspective) is a folly especially when it comes to predicting what may relate to Jonblat, Seniora, Harriri and Jeajea. Even the ‘all-knowing’ Nasrallah was expecting Seniora to be out of office by the end of last year! It was quite a surprise for his summer “divine promise”, I may say. Did you see how foolish the ‘Sayyid’ looked in his last speech? I’m sure he would like to switch places with Seniora.

Gibran,

What would we do here without you!

I think Bashar should fire Hersh … did you notice how he keeps calling him “Bashir”.

But wait … before you say it, I think I also realize what it is: he is PRETENDING he does not know Bashar .. how clever to call him Bashir.

By the way, here is some background on Hersh. The Syrians must be paying him a hefty amount of money

Oh Alex, dont you know those “self-hating Jews” like Hersh are just mentaliy unstable and pose a bigger threat than the worst terrorists 😉

For a guy that seems to think of himself so distant from brainwashed conspiracy theories. Gibran does a good job of contradicting himself. I wonder what type of hallucinogens he’s on, could be fun.

Actually IC, I want to encourage Gibran to remain a creative conspiracy theorist. We all enjoy reading his explanations don’t we?

Look at Hersh’s picture .. having dinner at??

hint: look at the back of his chair .. do you recognize the crest?

How the hell did you manage this pic? and btw, white wine is being served…shocking 😉

Gibran knows how I got the picture … remember? I work for them too. We are all propagandists for the Baathists …

???? ???? ????????

There!

IC, Alex,
O yeah. Well Hersh will definitely not get any prizes for his latest piece of …
But if he is paid by a criminal seeking to save his neck, he surely doesn’t need any trophies. Money in the bank is sometimes more valuable than an icon on the wall.
I mean look at Landis. Does he really care about his Phd?

Here is something related:

Jordan’s Muslim Brotherhood (which is very different from Syria’s Muslim Brotherhood) is upset because the American Ambassador to Jordan supposedly met with with Jordanian tribal leaders asking them to not vote for he brotherhood because they are infiltrated by Iran and are not doing enough to fight Iranian attempts to spread Shia Islam in Jordan

If true … wow!

????? ?????? ?????? ?????? ???????? ?? ?????? ???? ??? ?? ????? ????? ????? ???? ????? ??? ?????? ????????? ????????? ????? ??? ??????? ??????? ??????? ???????????.

????? ????? “??????” ??????? ?? ???? ????? ?????? ???? ?? ???? ???? ?????? ??? ?? ???? ????? ?????? ????? ????? ??? ?????? ?????????? ??? ?? ??? ?????? ??????? ?? ?????? ???? ???????? ??????? ??????? ???????? ???? ???.

???????? ??? ??????? ?? ?? ????? ?? ?? ???? ???? ?? ?????? ???????? ???? ?????? ??????? ??????? ???? ????? ??????? ???????????? ????? “??? ???? ????? ????? ?? ?????? ???????? ?? ??????? ???????? ??????? ???? ?????”.

????? ????? ???? ???? ????? ??? ?????? ???? ????? ??????? ???? ??????? ?? ?????????? ?? ?????????? ??????? ??????????? ??????? ?? ??? ??????? ???? ???? “???? ???? ?? ???? ?????????? ????????? ???? ???????? ??????”.

????? ??????? ????? ?? ???? ??????? ???? ?? ??? ???? ???? ????? ??? ??? ?? ?????? ????????? ?????? ?? ?????? ?????? ??? ???? “???????? ??? ?????? ??????? ????????”? ?????? ?? ??? ????? ????? ??????? ????? ??? ???? ?? ?????? ??????? ??? ?????.

??????? ????????? ??? ???? ?? ???? ??? ?????? ????? ???????. ???? ?????? ?????? ????? ???? ??????? ?? ?? ?????? ???? ????? ??? ??????? ???????? ?? ??? ????.

Ausamma said;

“No,I just do not see it as a serious matter. Propaganda, little theatrics, but not that serious.”

Spot on, couldnt agree more!

Alex you will remember in the last thread, I told you the crux time will be the Riyadh Summit. Syrias partciipation and Bashars attendence now, might get get everyone to step back from going over the cliff as Ausaama suggested here.

Personally I dont believe that America, or Saudi Arabia would be that stupid to arm the Salafists, it doesnt make sense to me no matter which way you look at it! ( Unless your conspiracy theory would be to tackle HIzbollah , then use it as a launching point against ousting the Syrian regime).

Diplomacy will win the day at the Summitt boys, there will be a lot of fake hugs, cheek and arse kisssing, back slapping and displays of that fake arab brotherhood to reach a compromise. Yes this is the Arab reality, is it a wonder that we have morons ruling us after taking everything to the edge?

Pure melodramatic Drama

Enlightened,

When it comes to predicting what will take place in the future of the Middle East, I refuse to play
: )

As for analyzing what is happening today, I do believe that Seymour Hersh’s piece is both reliable and well researched. When I talk about “Saudi Arabia” or “America” i am referring to “Prince Bandar and his types” and “the Bush Administration and neocons”

While I agree that Bashar and King Abdullah are not suicidal, others are very arrogant and very self confident. I do not trust their judgment so far. Especially that they are on the “losers” side for now.

Of course it is possible that by the Arab summit everything will be fine (or at least for a while), and I am aware that Bashar and Lebanese ally president Lahhoud are both going to attend. But the situation on the ground is too complex… if America attacks Iran, if you get fighting i Lebanon between Sunnis and Shia … things could explode.

As for my “conspiracy theory” … is it mine? and is it only “theory” by now?

did you read how the American ambassador to Jordan is supposedly meetig with the tribal leaders to scare them about the Shia?

Alex ( Conspiracy theory not directed at you ) , but I hold for those that believe in them!

Your right no one has a crystal ball!